DOE abroad

loveroflight

Hi. Thinking about taking my camper abroad, far enough that's not practical to bring home. The problem is, we wont be resident there and maybe stay only 30 days a year. At some point, we'll need tax and a DOE. The normal is to tax at home, but we can't get it home for DOE.
Anyone any info on what we can do?

Flood

Why dont you put a new cvrt on it before you go abroad?

FiftyNine

You should be able to get it tested abroad, I think there is a facility to allow hauliers to get their lorries tested like this. The Irish Road Hauliers Association should be able to help you with places that do the test in the country you are going to.

moodrater

I presume they are talking about leaving it in france long term? Think again is the answer I reckon.
You can't register it in france as you're not resident and it must comply with all the regulations of its registered country Ireland so it would have to come back for its DOE simple as.

It would probably be cheaper to fly over and rent a camper van for a month a year than tax, insure (expensive I imagine if it will be abandoned 11 months of the year), DOE, ferry + diesel each way, store and maintain a camper, replace batteries etc. Especially when you factor in the money you'd recoup by selling it here.

Added bonus you don't have to go to france every year you can go rent a van anywhere.

Unless you have family / trustworthy friend in france that would register it in their name and let you use it for a month.

niloc1951

FiftyNine wrote: »

You should be able to get it tested abroad, I think there is a facility to allow hauliers to get their lorries tested like this. The Irish Road Hauliers Association should be able to help you with places that do the test in the country you are going to.

The issue of testing in a foreign country has already been tested at EU level under the free movement of goods and services.

The outcome was that freedom of goods and services does not apply to roadworthiness testing.
It was held that for management of nation al road safety reasons a government is entitled to require that vehicles registered in its territory must be tested by its appointed testing organisation, in our case The RSA or its appointed test centres.


One issue which should be campaigned for is that motor caravans, because of their low level of use, should be permitted the same 90 day advance period for testing as is the situation for cars.
The current 30 day period is a carry-over from the requirement of commercially operated vehicles which can cover huge distances in a month and allowing more than 30 days could compromise safety standards.

The 90 day period would help people heading out of the country for a few months who have an expiry date while they are away.

I brought mine in a month early last year and got a 13 month cert iirc.

niloc1951

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I brought mine in a month early last year and got a 13 month cert iirc.

As said motorhomes are treated here in Ireland the same as vehicles operated in the commercial world, so a month (30 days) early is allowed.
My question is why are they not allowed 90 days like cars, considering they are in the same category in the EU regulations regarding vehicle roadworthiness testing.

I wasn't sure if you meant advanced or back-dated. I think you can back-date as long as you want and just get a cert from the date of expiry....insurance validity is another matter.

Flood

niloc1951 wrote: »

One issue which should be campaigned for is that motor caravans, because of their low level of use, should be permitted the same 90 day advance period for testing as is the situation for cars.

I see no issue in bringing it in across the board, in reality its only when you want to sell its an advantage to you.

niloc1951

Flood wrote: »

I see no issue in bringing it in across the board, in reality its only when you want to sell its an advantage to you.

I think you missed my point.
90 day advance testing would by an advantage in situations where an owner may not be in a position to get the vehicle tested within the 30 day advance period but could schedule a test between 30 days and 90 days in advance of the test due date.

The main question is why are motorhomes treated the same as high use commercial vehicles when they are low use private vehicles.
Why can I get my car tested up to 90 days in advance of its due date but I am only allowed to get my camper tested up to 30 days in advance of its due date.

Flood

niloc1951 wrote: »

I think you missed my point.
90 day advance testing would by an advantage in situations where an owner may not be in a position to get the vehicle tested within the 30 day advance period but could schedule a test between 30 days and 90 days in advance of the test due date.

30 days is a long time, there is nothing stopping an owner getting their vehicle ready before the 30 days and have it ready and book it in.
It sounds like you are getting value getting a 13 month test or in terms of a car getting 15 month test but you already have paid the previous year for the month/s you are testing early so its no bonus.
Like I said a long test is only an advantage when selling. I cannot see the 90 days rule coming into play.

tphase

Flood wrote: »

30 days is a long time, there is nothing stopping an owner getting their vehicle ready before the 30 days and have it ready and book it in.
It sounds like you are getting value getting a 13 month test or in terms of a car getting 15 month test but you already have paid the previous year for the month/s you are testing early so its no bonus.
Like I said a long test is only an advantage when selling. I cannot see the 90 days rule coming into play.

I have to agree with niloc, motorhomes and campers should be treated the same as cars in this regard.
30 days isn't that long. I had a test booked for last week, on the earliest available date I could make within the 30 day period. On the day, I got a call to say the the test equipment had broken down. I got another booking for today, the only day I could make this week. The van failed, nothing too serious but it will require the services of my mechanic who I will not be able to get to until next week. My test is out tomorrow.:(
I put it to you that a 90 day advance testing period would have been some considerable advantage to me (and I have no intention of selling my van)

Flood

Why did you miss my point that you can get your vehicle prepared and ready long before the 30 days of expiry? I have never yet experienced busy cvrt centres. The place I use I ring them up and they can give me a slot within a day or two. The cvrt centres are not busy like nct centres.

tphase

I'm not missing your point at all, I simply don't agree with your contention that a 90 day test window is of no advantage (except in the instance of selling the vehcle) and cited a real world example where it would have made a difference. My van was ready for test more than 30 days before expiry, but due to circumstances, was not tested until the day before expiry. The test centre could have accomodated me earlier but I couldn't make the available times. Unlike commercial drivers, who are 'at work' when they test their trucks, I have to take time off as the centre I use is open 9 to 6.

Flood

I dont see the big deal in the 90 days thats just my point of view. Are you working Monday to Saturday 9-6 to say you cannot get time? Even if you are drop off the camper at the test centre night before and drop keys in letter box or get a friend to carry it to test centre. I know centres that collect your vehicle from your work place and bring it back. Carry it on your lunch break. Some centres work on after 6 go to one of them.

niloc1951

Flood wrote: »

I dont see the big deal in the 90 days thats just my point of view. Are you working Monday to Saturday 9-6 to say you cannot get time? Even if you are drop off the camper at the test centre night before and drop keys in letter box or get a friend to carry it to test centre. I know centres that collect your vehicle from your work place and bring it back. Carry it on your lunch break. Some centres work on after 6 go to one of them.

There are many motorhome owners who are in the lucky position (retired) to use their vehicles for extended periods away from cold and damp Ireland, a couple can stay on a Spanish camp-site for three months off season for less than €800.
The 90 day rule would facilitate such owners, here is an example.

Test due end of October, ferry booked outbound beginning of September return early December.
If the car 90 days early facility was available the vehicle could be tested before departure.
The only options currently available to such owners is use the vehicle with an expired cert until they get home or get the vehicle tested in August before the go.

However, the 30 day rule means that the current cert will prematurely expire on the test date in August and a new test date for future years will be permanently reset to August which represents a loss of up to three months value off the old cert and this does not apply to a car test.

If on a following year the vehicle is being taken out of the country in for example May the same scenario will repeat itself, and so on.

digger58

I wondered about this and called the RSA, If your test is out in August and you will be away there is no problem getting it tested in June, forget the 30 day rule, that only applies if you want to keep the original test date. If you are prepared to take the "hit" you can get it tested anytime BUT the test will run for 12 months from the date of this test not the original one!

Irishgoatman

digger58 wrote: »

I wondered about this and called the RSA, If your test is out in August and you will be away there is no problem getting it tested in June, forget the 30 day rule, that only applies if you want to keep the original test date. If you are prepared to take the "hit" you can get it tested anytime BUT the test will run for 12 months from the date of this test not the original one!

I've done this. It's a good way to make sure that insurance, motor tax and test charges don't appear on your bank statement too close together .

I notice we haven't heard anymore from the OP on this ?.

niloc1951

digger58 wrote: »

I wondered about this and called the RSA, If your test is out in August and you will be away there is no problem getting it tested in June, forget the 30 day rule, that only applies if you want to keep the original test date. If you are prepared to take the "hit" you can get it tested anytime BUT the test will run for 12 months from the date of this test not the original one!

Thanks digger58,
However if we were not treated as vehicles being operated in the commercial world and treated as private passenger vehicles (which we are) and given the same 90 days the chances of having to take the 'hit' would be greatly reduced.
And, as time goes by the 'hit' could have to be taken repeatedly depending on how the time away interfaces with the test date.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

...................................I notice we haven't heard anymore from the OP on this ?.

Posts 4 & 5 probably put the kibosh on his/her idea

Flood

niloc1951 wrote: »

There are many motorhome owners who are in the lucky position (retired) to use their vehicles for extended periods away from cold and damp Ireland, a couple can stay on a Spanish camp-site for three months off season for less than €800.
The 90 day rule would facilitate such owners, here is an example.

Test due end of October, ferry booked outbound beginning of September return early December.
If the car 90 days early facility was available the vehicle could be tested before departure.
The only options currently available to such owners is use the vehicle with an expired cert until they get home or get the vehicle tested in August before the go.

What about a camper with a cvrt due end of November, do you propose a 120 day rule for this retired couple?
A solution has been offered, test your camper before you annual leave and it will fall into place every year. Forget about the 90 rule as it will not suit everyone and in essence if it was there you are still only getting a test for 12 months.

However, the 30 day rule means that the current cert will prematurely expire on the test date in August and a new test date for future years will be permanently reset to August which represents a loss of up to three months value off the old cert and this does not apply to a car test.

For the first year only, you need to forget about the 90 day rule as its not there and presently I cannot see it coming into place.

tphase

niloc1951 wrote: »

...not treated as vehicles being operated in the commercial world and treated as private passenger vehicles (which we are) and given the same 90 days...

this is precisely the point

mervifwdc

This also depends very much on where you are going to be in your camper.

for example, if your bringing it to South America, they have no interest in whether the camper is tested, taxed or insured in Ireland. They only care about it being temporarily imported correctly into their country (and exported afterwards), and that you have an insurance policy that covers their country.

Hypothetically speaking: During such a trip, the van could be declared of the road in Ireland, as it will definitely not be on the road in Ireland :-).

digger58

Hi mervifwdc, I presume you are one and the same person who did just that, I followed a blog on a S American trip. The other side of this is the legal position, it is NOT an offence to have a foreign registered vehicle in Ireland without tax or NCT/DOE/MOT, because its not Irish registered, C&E may say its an offence to have it if your an Irish resident but bollox to them! if you follow their bluff you couldn't borrow you friends UK reg, or other, and drive it in Ireland, The offence of No tax No NCT, NO DOE etc applies to IRISH vehicles in use in IRELAND, QED! I also suspect that this is reciprocal, have you ever been stopped in a foreign country and asked about tax, Nct, I certainly haven't. basically because most countries have a modern system that taxes use not ownership like ours. most EU countries either have a vignette system and or include the road duties in the fuel so that the more you drive the more you pay, I think it is now only Ireland that has a very expensive bit of paper displayed on the windscreen, even the UK has dropped the paper tax disc.

Del2005

digger58 wrote: »

Hi mervifwdc, I presume you are one and the same person who did just that, I followed a blog on a S American trip. The other side of this is the legal position, it is NOT an offence to have a foreign registered vehicle in Ireland without tax or NCT/DOE/MOT, because its not Irish registered, C&E may say its an offence to have it if your an Irish resident but bollox to them! if you follow their bluff you couldn't borrow you friends UK reg, or other, and drive it in Ireland, The offence of No tax No NCT, NO DOE etc applies to IRISH vehicles in use in IRELAND, QED! I also suspect that this is reciprocal, have you ever been stopped in a foreign country and asked about tax, Nct, I certainly haven't. basically because most countries have a modern system that taxes use not ownership like ours. most EU countries either have a vignette system and or include the road duties in the fuel so that the more you drive the more you pay, I think it is now only Ireland that has a very expensive bit of paper displayed on the windscreen, even the UK has dropped the paper tax disc.

You can't borrow your friends UK reg as the customs will lift it, an Irish resident can't drive a foreign reg vehicle except in a few limited cases.

digger58

Yes you can, the "offence" according to C&E is having a vehicle in the state without paying VRT (unless you have a TAN number), since the car is not yours and you have only borrowed it there is no power of seizure, I believe there was a successful case taken recently about this sort of thing. The power of seizure is a "last resort" sort of thing and the C&E are obliged to give a warning notice etc first, The EU are looking at this as well. You would be some fool to let these feckers seize a car you had borrowed for the day. Where is the power to seize by force, AFAIK there isn't any. C&E have been overstepping the mark for years and should be challenged every step of the way. This is another example of Ireland loving to be part of the EU but unwilling to give the same privileges to it's citizens, so much for free movement of goods and people. I have challenged them on this point in the past and they gave up! You don't see them going to any halting sites do you?

Del2005

digger58 wrote: »

Yes you can, the "offence" according to C&E is having a vehicle in the state without paying VRT (unless you have a TAN number), since the car is not yours and you have only borrowed it there is no power of seizure, I believe there was a successful case taken recently about this sort of thing. The power of seizure is a "last resort" sort of thing and the C&E are obliged to give a warning notice etc first, The EU are looking at this as well. You would be some fool to let these feckers seize a car you had borrowed for the day. Where is the power to seize by force, AFAIK there isn't any. C&E have been overstepping the mark for years and should be challenged every step of the way. This is another example of Ireland loving to be part of the EU but unwilling to give the same privileges to it's citizens, so much for free movement of goods and people. I have challenged them on this point in the past and they gave up! You don't see them going to any halting sites do you?

Are taking about the article in the Derry paper about a District Court case? DC cases don't create precedent and if you check some of the other forums on this site for the story you'll see that it's not illegal to have a vehicle lifted, the EU also wrote to several other countries with similar laws to ours.

digger58

Never said it was not legal for a car to be seized! Read what I posted, There is a power of seizure but only in certain circumstances, the procedure to issue a warning s the first step, this is what the D/Court judge spoke of. The EU are looking into the amount of duty being charged in relation to VRT on vehicles that have already being subject to taxes in EU member states. You cannot be charged a tax on a tax!

Del2005

digger58 wrote: »

Never said it was not legal for a car to be seized! Read what I posted, There is a power of seizure but only in certain circumstances, the procedure to issue a warning s the first step, this is what the D/Court judge spoke of. The EU are looking into the amount of duty being charged in relation to VRT on vehicles that have already being subject to taxes in EU member states. You cannot be charged a tax on a tax!

As I said a DC court case doesn't create precedent, so that case has no bearing on the next person who gets their vehicle lifted.

digger58

You obviously done see my point, which is that the correct procedure is to issue a warning notice, seizure of a vehicle in circumstances where a tax MAY be owing has been stated by the EU to be in breach of powers of seizure, don't forget not all vehicles are subject to VRT! seizing it believing a tax is due is far beyond the scope of the legislation. That is why the D Court found for the defendant in that case. I don't deny the power of seizure is there. Every case is different but each has to have the same terms of fairness and openness applied. Do you believe that every foreign vehicle should be seized and sort it out afterwards?