Ireland to assist in migrant crisis in the Med.

darkpagandeath

blatantrereg wrote: »

Yes it's absurd. "Asylum seeker" should be a very temporary status. We have it as some sort of social group. Being an asylum seeker in Ireland is a viable lifestyle choice for people who work off the books or are outright criminals. On the other hand it is crap for respectable genuine refugees.

Most if not a good 90% are economic migrants any figures on actual Asylum seekers we have processed ?

Gatling

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Most if not a good 90% are economic migrants any figures on actual Asylum seekers we have processed ?

Considering we've 560,000+ migrants living here at a time when our economy was at its worst 2000 + migrants were still coming here .
We've 5000+ asylum seekers living in direct provision.
With what's widely believed to be another 5000 staying with friends and families outside the offical asylum process .
We allowed 30,000 to stay here after because they had an Irish born child .
At one stage 26,000 migrants from Africa alone were arriving here in the late 90's to the early 2000's the majority are still living here .
As for the figures all have been posted from cso figures across multiple discussions on the subject .
We're hardly anti migrant when you look at the figures

darkpagandeath

Gatling wrote: »

Considering we've 560,000+ migrants living here at a time when our economy was at its worst 2000 + migrants were still coming here .
We've 5000+ asylum seekers living in direct provision.
With what's widely believed to be another 5000 staying with friends and families outside the offical asylum process .
We allowed 30,000 to stay here after because they had an Irish born child .
At one stage 26,000 migrants from Africa alone were arriving here in the late 90's to the early 2000's the majority are still living here .
As for the figures all have been posted from cso figures across multiple discussions on the subject .
We're hardly anti migrant when you look at the figures

Was still better than their own economy, Again it's economic migrants not asylum seeker we will be getting. I have no problem with Asylum seekers that are genuine. Majority are single young men does that not set alarm bells ringing ?

MathDebater

More than 400 asylum-seekers have left the processing centre at Manus in Papua New Guinea, to return to their home countries.

And 129 people deemed to be genuine refugees are being ­offered the opportunity to live in PNG, but most are still awaiting resettlement.

PNG Prime Minister Peter O’Neill revealed the figures in a speech at the Lowy Institute in Sydney yesterday.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/png-offers-129-asylum-seekers-a-place-to-live-as-400-go-home

Over 400 'asylum seekers' decided to go home to the very countries that they have claimed to have fled, instead of taking up the offer of residency in the PNG. We should be adopting Australian style solutions to the situation in the Med. Not taking them in and 'sharing the burden'.

Nodin

xhoundx wrote: »

The cost of assessing who is genuine and who is not is a burden we could do without.
Unless you are involved in the processing of these people and stand to gain financially from it, be it through the legal processes involved or the housing of them

You'll be starting your campaign for us to withdraw from the Geneva convention when....?

jackofalltrades

Nodin wrote: »

The use of such loose language gives rise to the notion that people can arrive and claim social welfare and be given a house. This is not the case.

My comments were made in the context of a thread on asylum seekers.
There's an article about direct provision nearly every week in the media.
So I don't know how anyone would think I was referring to Jobseekers Allowance or Local Authority housing.

You might care to look into attitudes to asylum seekers and illegal immigrants in the US today.

Why?Is it relevant to the point I was making?

Nodin

Gatling wrote: »

Considering we've 560,000+ migrants living here at a time when our economy was at its worst 2000 + migrants were still coming here .
We've 5000+ asylum seekers living in direct provision.
With what's widely believed to be another 5000 staying with friends and families outside the offical asylum process .
We allowed 30,000 to stay here after because they had an Irish born child .
At one stage 26,000 migrants from Africa alone were arriving here in the late 90's to the early 2000's the majority are still living here .
As for the figures all have been posted from cso figures across multiple discussions on the subject .
We're hardly anti migrant when you look at the figures

Why are you mixing those who arrived re free movement within the EU and those who sought asylum?

MorpheusKnight

MathDebater wrote: »

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/png-offers-129-asylum-seekers-a-place-to-live-as-400-go-home

Over 400 'asylum seekers' decided to go home to the very countries that they have claimed to have fled, instead of taking up the offer of residency in the PNG. We should be adopting Australian style solutions to the situation in the Med. Not taking them in and 'sharing the burden'.

Well, if we are going to be obliged of some economic burden for their upkeep, perhaps we could sponsor them in PNG.

It would be much economical.

Nodin

jackofalltrades wrote: »

My comments were made in the context of a thread on asylum seekers.
There's an article about direct provision nearly every week in the media.
So I don't know how anyone would think I was referring to Jobseekers Allowance or Local Authority housing.

But I do because it comes up repeatedly.

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Why?Is it relevant to the point I was making?

Entirely relevant, yes.

BoJack Horseman

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

Well, if we are going to be obliged of some economic burden for their upkeep, perhaps we could sponsor them in PNG.

It would be much economical.

We have land there already:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ireland_%28island%29

MathDebater

Nodin wrote: »

You'll be starting your campaign for us to withdraw from the Geneva convention when....?

It's a treaty that was written in 1949. It's f*cking us(Europe) over. Change it to reflect modern day realities or opt out.

Letree

Taking these people from the med and resettling them all over Europe in an official capacity is only going to inspire more to make the same journey and take the same risks. The Aussies have proven that it can be stopped. Just disbar anyone who illegally comes over in a boat from staying. Send them back or bring them to an island to be processed.

There are a hell of a lot of people in the world looking to come to western countries. We can't take them all.

xhoundx

Nodin wrote: »

You'll be starting your campaign for us to withdraw from the Geneva convention when....?

Any other tricks besides waffling?

Gatling

Nodin wrote: »

Why are you mixing those who arrived re free movement within the EU and those who sought asylum?

Economic migrants were getting economic been the key word here .

The majority who come here from outside the EU came for economic benefits .
And because this country was a soft touch

MorpheusKnight

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

We have land there already:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ireland_%28island%29

Well I think that they got their independence about 1975.

There seems to be over a hundred islands in the area.

Hans Bricks

I'm shivering with fear in my boots at the thought of flimsy condemnation by UN and Amnesty groups over Ireland's lax adherence to the Geneva convention. Shivering I tell ya !

Nodin

MathDebater wrote: »

It's a treaty that was written in 1949. It's f*cking us(Europe) over. Change it to reflect modern day realities or opt out.

What "modern day realities" are not reflected?

Gatling wrote:

.................And because this country was a soft touch

The country never had the highest acceptance rate in the EU, afaik, let alone Europe.

MathDebater

We may have a low acceptance rate, mainly due to the fact that over 90% of asylum claims being received are unfounded. But we have an even lower deportation rate!

Alexis Sanchez

Nodin wrote: »

The country never had the highest acceptance rate in the EU, afaik, let alone Europe.

That's because us Europeans, as a whole, are pussies. Ireland and the UK are more strict than the others, but we need to toughen-up like the Americans and Aussies.

KingBrian2

Alexis Sanchez wrote: »

That's because us Europeans, as a whole, are pussies. Ireland and the UK are more strict than the others, but we need to toughen-up like the Americans and Aussies.

These immigrants should not be over here. This is large scale mass migration and we are seeing the tragedies in the Mediterranean all over the news. They belong in their own countries however due to the crazy policies of backing untrained coupists they have requested sanctuary in Europe. We should of course be taking them in. That goes the same in other parts of the world where militias rule the streets. The very least we can do is provide them with passports and food and shelter.

IrishTrajan

Nodin wrote: »

Sport can provide the same excitement as making up worst case scenarios and is far healthier overall.

Ah, yes. Using figures provided by the Italian Ministry and our quota of 272 per 20,000 is a "worst-case scenario". Apologies for not being as blindly idealistic as you. Somebody should really ring the Italians and tell them they're got it all wrong, that there actually isn't a million people that are waiting to cross.

You still haven't given any answers as to how we're going to pay for them if they get here, considering there's a plethora of State/non-State matters that are already under stress from domestic population growth and desire our more immediate attention than illegal economic migrants.

MathDebater

KingBrian2 wrote: »

We should of course be taking them in. That goes the same in other parts of the world where militias rule the streets. The very least we can do is provide them with passports and food and shelter.

There are 53 African countries and 49 predominantly Muslim states. With notable exceptions, Turkey and Jordan for example, these countries are doing very little. Why should it be up to us to 'provide passports, food and shelter?' Come to Europe illegally by boat. Get an EU passport, housing and whatever else is going. Eh, no. This will only exasperate the problem.

Asylum into Ireland over the last 20 years has been a means of creating huge wealth for companies providing accommodation and services for asylum seekers and equally lucrative for legal firms and universities advocating lax migration policies as an ideology and government policy - whether or not the Irish people agree with it.

The asylum system costs the taxpayer *€150 million per annum. Pro immigration groups and advocates want us to take more in, do away with DP, give asylum seekers social housing, allow them to work and full access to social welfare. Which is nuts considering we already have high unemployment, a social housing crisis and services are being cut to absolute ribbons.

*https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ireland-spending-150-million-asylum-system-153955286.html

IrishTrajan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

These immigrants should not be over here. This is large scale mass migration and we are seeing the tragedies in the Mediterranean all over the news. They belong in their own countries however due to the crazy policies of backing untrained coupists they have requested sanctuary in Europe. We should of course be taking them in. That goes the same in other parts of the world where militias rule the streets. The very least we can do is provide them with passports and food and shelter.

Ah, yes. Ireland was instrumental in NATO's bombing campaigns, despite not being a member, and not even having any aircraft capable of carrying out sustained operations.

That is also ignoring the fact that most of these people are ECONOMIC MIGRANTS NOT ASYLUM SEEKERS.

folamh

Alexis Sanchez wrote: »

That's because us Europeans, as a whole, are pussies. Ireland and the UK are more strict than the others, but we need to toughen-up like the Americans and Aussies.

The US might be comparatively "tough" on immigration officially, but they have a unique problem with high numbers of illegals.

IrishTrajan

folamh wrote: »

The US might be comparatively "tough" on immigration officially, but they have a unique problem with high numbers of illegals.

Absolutely, but we don't have a 3100km border with countries where illegal migrants may come from. Of course there are probably some who made it through the port tunnel and snuck into Ireland through the Irish Sea, but I don't find that particularly numbers-intensive.

Ireland is relatively isolated, which has been a weakness usually. But in this instance, isolation is a strength.

folamh

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Absolutely, but we don't have a 3100km border with countries where illegal migrants may come from. Of course there are probably some who made it through the port tunnel and snuck into Ireland through the Irish Sea, but I don't find that particularly numbers-intensive.

Ireland is relatively isolated, which has been a weakness usually. But in this instance, isolation is a strength.

I agree.

MorpheusKnight

folamh wrote: »

I agree.

[QUOTE=Ireland is relatively isolated, which has been a weakness usually. But in this instance, isolation is a strength.[/QUOTE]


I concur.

Additionally, no matter how modern Ireland wishes itself to look, we are isolated from the rest of Europe and are 10 or 15 years behind other EU societal trends with regards to non EU national immigration.

This allows us to see what has gone wrong (or correct) in other places - Paris, London, Madrid, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Malmo - many other places throughout EU and USA / Canada / Australia.

We have done nothing wrong.

MathDebater

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Ireland is relatively isolated, which has been a weakness usually. But in this instance, isolation is a strength.

The illegal immigration crisis in the Med is now our problem as the genuises in government have decided not to exercise our opt out on this.

The EU should start an information campaign in those countries where the majority of illegal immigrants come from that explains the level of risk they face in the journey and their inevitability of capture and immediate return to their country of origin.

All of this could be paid for from the overseas aid budget.

MorpheusKnight

MathDebater wrote: »

The illegal immigration crisis in the Med is now our problem as the genuises in government have decided not to exercise our opt out on this.

The EU should start an information campaign in those countries where the majority of illegal immigrants come from that explains the level of risk they face in the journey and their inevitability of capture and immediate return to their country of origin.

All of this could be paid for from the overseas aid budget.

PNG. Perfect.

Everybody wins.

MathDebater

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

PNG. Perfect.

Everybody wins.

Could do a deal with some safe African countey like Israel does.

Rwandan President Paul Kagame has confirmed media reports that Kigali is finalising a multimillion dollar deal that will see it host illegal immigrants that Israel intends to expel.

According to Israeli media reports, the Middle Eastern country plans to relocate illegal immigrants to Rwanda and Uganda, which Kigali had denied knowledge of.

The agreement, which has come under scrutiny by human rights organisations, will see Israel deport hundreds of Eritrean and Sudanese asylum-seekers to both Rwanda and Uganda in return for favourable deals that include millions of dollars in grants.

Israel’s Interior ministry confirmed this week in a statement that it will "expel immigrants from the detention centres" and encourage migrants "to leave Israel in a safe and respectable way" to targeted African countries that would grant them legal immigration rights.

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/Rwanda-confirms-Israel-talks-on-hosting-African-immigrants/-/2558/2674228/-/qy33pdz/-/index.html

Anyway, it seems that a lot of the accession states aren't too happy with the proposed quota system.

"Poland on Friday became the latest European Union member to oppose the bloc's plan for binding quotas on asylum seekers for its 28 member states.

The Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia Lithuania and Slovakia also oppose the controversial fixed quotas proposed by the EU on Wednesday but all say they are open to taking in refugees on a voluntary basis."

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/europe-migrants.1199

Yet we wade in and agree even though we had an opt out. Lol.

wakka12

KingBrian2 wrote: »

These immigrants should not be over here. This is large scale mass migration and we are seeing the tragedies in the Mediterranean all over the news. They belong in their own countries however due to the crazy policies of backing untrained coupists they have requested sanctuary in Europe. We should of course be taking them in. That goes the same in other parts of the world where militias rule the streets. The very least we can do is provide them with passports and food and shelter.

And we should give them shelter over the homeless or poor in our country because ? We owe them nothing, yes they live in a ****ty place but really why are they our problem?

Rhys Essien

Russell Brand challenges Katie Hopkins view on the migrants/refugees.

Gatling

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Russell Brand challenges Katie Hopkins view on the migrants/refugees.

She must be doing something right ,
She calls for gunships to be used and well there drawing up plans for military action .

Notradamus didn't see that coming

MathDebater

Russell Brand -nobody should vote.

After voter registration is closed - everyone vote labour.

After labour lost - Ed swindled me. I lost the run of myself!

IrishTrajan

MathDebater wrote: »

Russell Brand -nobody should vote.

After voter registration is closed - everyone vote labour.

After labour lost - Ed swindled me. I lost the run of myself!

He's about as useful as a condom made of prayers.

BlaasForRafa

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Russell Brand challenges Katie Hopkins view on the migrants/refugees.

Can't we get someone to attack Katie Hopkins and Russell Brand with Helicopter gunships?

dr.fuzzenstein

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Russell Brand challenges Katie Hopkins view on the migrants/refugees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=884RCxG61K4

He is right, KH isn't right in the head, but sadly a lot of people are just filled with hate, they got their little patch and don't give a sh*t about others. Who wants to give money to help poor people when I need every penny to buy the latest tinsel and nonsense from Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc...
It has to be said that AH has always been a hotbed for loudmouths to come online and spew hate about just about anything to show off how tough they are (from behind the keyboard), sort of "look at me, I'm so sh*tcool, I don't give s h*te! Fcuk whatever you're talking about! Etc!"
Well, fortunately the actions taken by the Irish state reflect the TRUE spirit of the Irish people and luckily these decisions are made by the grownups in charge, not by people spouting bile on AH.

MathDebater

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

He is right, KH isn't right in the head, but sadly a lot of people are just filled with hate, they got their little patch and don't give a sh*t about others. Who wants to give money to help poor people when I need every penny to buy the latest tinsel and nonsense from Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc...

Will you be selling the oul laptop and donating the proceeds to help these people?

Gatling

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

He is right, KH isn't right in the head, but sadly a lot of people are just filled with hate, they got their little patch and don't give a sh*t about others. Who wants to give money to help poor people when I need every penny to buy the latest tinsel and nonsense from Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc...
It has to be said that AH has always been a hotbed for loudmouths to come online and spew hate about just about anything to show off how tough they are (from behind the keyboard), sort of "look at me, I'm so sh*tcool, I don't give s h*te! Fcuk whatever you're talking about! Etc!"
Well, fortunately the actions taken by the Irish state reflect the TRUE spirit of the Irish people and luckily these decisions are made by the grownups in charge, not by people spouting bile on AH.

Hatred my ass common sense plain and simple .

We've taken pain and suffering to keep EU bondholders happy .
We don't need 20 ,30,40 +.thousand economic migrants to add further drain on our very limited resources.

We've plenty of migrants as it is

dr.fuzzenstein

MathDebater wrote: »

Will you be selling the oul laptop and donating the proceeds to help these people?

I'm sure I can find a spare few quid for these people.

BlaasForRafa

MathDebater wrote: »

Will you be selling the oul laptop and donating the proceeds to help these people?

He's too busy paying for that high horse he's sitting on.

MathDebater

EU to open shelters in Niger in bid to keep illegal migrants out of Europe

A headline from an article in todays Guardian. When even The Guardian start using the I word, you know we we have reached crisis point.

“These problems of great migrations are much like those of the rural exodus. People are leaving the countryside to the cities driven by poverty, the same way people leave poor countries to go to rich countries, simply because their situation is untenable,” the Nigerien leader said.

Even the African leaders admit that the 'migrants' are economically driven and no in any need of asylum.

Several shelters are to open in Niger in an attempt to curb illegal migration to Europe, the French interior minister has said.

The African countries have more reality based policies to deal with the situation than we have.

Full article - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/15/eu-shelters-niger-africa-illegal-migration-europe

Nodin

MathDebater wrote: »

There are 53 African (............)-asylum-system-153955286.html

...Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, India......

MathDebater

Nodin wrote: »

...Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, India......

Yep. What's your point?

dr.fuzzenstein

MathDebater wrote: »

A headline from an article in todays Guardian. When even The Guardian start using the I word, you know we we have reached crisis point.



Even the African leaders admit that the 'migrants' are economically driven and no in any need of asylum.



The African countries have more reality based policies to deal with the situation than we have.

Full article - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/15/eu-shelters-niger-africa-illegal-migration-europe

The African countries? Its an EU initiative, all the Africans are going to do is jail people smugglers (which is alright), the EU had the idea that maybe if there's development, people won't have to leave.
Whoever came up with it, its obviously the right thing to do. Giving people a reason to stay in the first place is definitely a better policy than trying to stop them coming over, which is a losing game from the start. Its definitely a better way to utilise our tax and donated €.
We'll have to see though, a lot of African countries are sh*tholes with corrupt governments and will they ever be countries that people will want to stay in?

JustTheOne

How do we have such a high Nigerian community if they aren't in the EU?

arybvtcw0eolkf

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I thought they were sending warships to deal with this problem

IrishTrajan wrote: »

We're sending a small (small by military standards) OPV (what we use to police fishing zones within Irish waters) to help. LÉ Eithne is the largest ship in the Irish navy, and will serve a couple months before being replaced by another, newer ship.

We are sending a warship.

All naval vessels in international waters are 'warships' ~ ie all her radio traffic she'll refer to the ship, and be referred to as 'Warship Eithne'.

wallywhittle

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

He is right, KH isn't right in the head, but sadly a lot of people are just filled with hate, they got their little patch and don't give a sh*t about others. Who wants to give money to help poor people when I need every penny to buy the latest tinsel and nonsense from Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc...
It has to be said that AH has always been a hotbed for loudmouths to come online and spew hate about just about anything to show off how tough they are (from behind the keyboard), sort of "look at me, I'm so sh*tcool, I don't give s h*te! Fcuk whatever you're talking about! Etc!"
Well, fortunately the actions taken by the Irish state reflect the TRUE spirit of the Irish people and luckily these decisions are made by the grownups in charge, not by people spouting bile on AH.

Aww cry me river , you obviously live in some liberal lefty bubble and have no idea the problems mass immigration brings, just look at Brussels and see how it is turning the city into a hellhole.

xhoundx

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

He is right, KH isn't right in the head, but sadly a lot of people are just filled with hate, they got their little patch and don't give a sh*t about others. Who wants to give money to help poor people when I need every penny to buy the latest tinsel and nonsense from Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc...
It has to be said that AH has always been a hotbed for loudmouths to come online and spew hate about just about anything to show off how tough they are (from behind the keyboard), sort of "look at me, I'm so sh*tcool, I don't give s h*te! Fcuk whatever you're talking about! Etc!"
Well, fortunately the actions taken by the Irish state reflect the TRUE spirit of the Irish people and luckily these decisions are made by the grownups in charge, not by people spouting bile on AH.

Most hate and bile filled post of the thread

wakka12

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

He is right, KH isn't right in the head, but sadly a lot of people are just filled with hate, they got their little patch and don't give a sh*t about others. Who wants to give money to help poor people when I need every penny to buy the latest tinsel and nonsense from Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc...
It has to be said that AH has always been a hotbed for loudmouths to come online and spew hate about just about anything to show off how tough they are (from behind the keyboard), sort of "look at me, I'm so sh*tcool, I don't give s h*te! Fcuk whatever you're talking about! Etc!"
Well, fortunately the actions taken by the Irish state reflect the TRUE spirit of the Irish people and luckily these decisions are made by the grownups in charge, not by people spouting bile on AH.

lol get off your high horse, how about you go sell your iPod and car and every thing thats not essential to your survival to these poor folk you care so much about