Ireland to assist in migrant crisis in the Med.

My name is URL

jackofalltrades wrote: »

The EU were happy to make us pay off the bondholders, all for the sake of "stopping contagion" and protecting their economies.

We took a huge hit on that, we owe them nothing.

That's hardly the fault of the EU as an organisation. That's down to individual sates and their interests, and our own government's failure to be able to negotiate a fairer deal.

Ireland has benefited hugely from its membership of the EU. Perhaps moreso than any other member country.

You can still deal with the root cause of this migrant crisis, but if the EU is to allow some people to stay here then I can't think of a good reason why Ireland shouldn't do its bit once it's reasonable and proportioned.

There are thousands of Irish people moving abroad for economical reasons every month. Do those who are so opposed to migration think that they shouldn't be allowed to leave? Seems only fair really.

People can go on about economic reasons and hospital waiting lists but I don't see how allowing a few hundred migrants per twenty odd thousand is going to make those things worse. The housing crisis isn't going to be sorted out by disallowing migrants to come here, no matter how much people would like to think otherwise. A lot of our systems are broken, and it ain't down to how many people are allowed into the country.

end of the road

visual wrote: »

We don't even enforce the dublin convention here. If we did there would be 7k in temporary accommodation.

It's my tax money that will fund FG attempt at PC. Roll.on the elections and every one that knocks on my door I will ask a simple question if a past TD was not acting 100% in public interest that their pension (I fund) is withdrawn

"an attempt at pc" dear jesus. its about time the low rent who use this racist bigoted term "pc" get it into their heads that it doesn't exist.

mikeym

Bring back Gadaffi.

Oh wait hes dead.

Stheno

272 per 20000 is over sixty thousand in total!

What timeframe is this over?

Grandpa Hassan

end of the road wrote: »

not taking them in won't stop them from crossing. all they would do if a majority of countries tried it, is simply cross anyway and simply hope they get through. and before you mention australias approach? i no more buy it actually works then the cat. the conservative government there has to say what it needs to to keep the gullible sheep on side for votes after all.

Maybe not. But we can do our best to send them back. Taking them will just encourage everyone to come. It would escalate the numbers to levels that it would be impossible to manage. Let alone the increased numbers that would die en route

IrishTrajan

end of the road wrote: »

i'd go one further, and have told them to **** off we won't pay. but that would take someone with guts. in saying that, i've no issue with us helping the migrants. i'd hope to jesus we never experience the desperation of having to get on a boat knowing you may not make it to try flee

These are not all refugees, End. Most of them are economic migrants. It's nice to see you're still blindly swinging for the left-wing though. "It's the bankers faults! The poor migrants we should take them all in!".

"I've no issue with us helping the migrants"

How many homeless people live in your home?

IrishTrajan

end of the road wrote: »

not taking them in won't stop them from crossing. all they would do if a majority of countries tried it, is simply cross anyway and simply hope they get through. and before you mention australias approach? i no more buy it actually works then the cat. the conservative government there has to say what it needs to to keep the gullible sheep on side for votes after all.

Both parties were anti-migration and had plans. Abbot just marketed his ideas better. Do you really think it's a conspiracy theory by them?

Tombi!

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

They can fck right off, that would mean we would take in 68,000 migrants.
Sure we have no housing crisis here and no one on social housing waiting list and all of these migrants will be put on the housing list.
Lets not forget to add most of these migrants will be muslims, have we not had enough problems in Europe already instead of importing more in.
Time for the government to take care of our own people which they can barely do already instead of importing poor migrants.

Mod: No need to have a go at the Muslims. Keep opinions like that to yourself if you want to continue posting here.

mikeym

Wasnt there stories of Christians being turfed out of the over crowded boats by muslims.

A blockade seems to be the best idea but we need to help the African countries more and maybe that would halt the mass migration.

wakka12

emo72 wrote: »

7000 in 2 days??? jaysus, thats the population of a fair sized town in ireland.

It would be the 64th biggest town in ireland

wakka12

My name is URL wrote: »

That's hardly the fault of the EU as an organisation. That's down to individual sates and their interests, and our own government's failure to be able to negotiate a fairer deal.

Ireland has benefited hugely from its membership of the EU. Perhaps moreso than any other member country.

You can still deal with the root cause of this migrant crisis, but if the EU is to allow some people to stay here then I can't think of a good reason why Ireland shouldn't do its bit once it's reasonable and proportioned.

There are thousands of Irish people moving abroad for economical reasons every month. Do those who are so opposed to migration think that they shouldn't be allowed to leave? Seems only fair really.

People can go on about economic reasons and hospital waiting lists but I don't see how allowing a few hundred migrants per twenty odd thousand is going to make those things worse. The housing crisis isn't going to be sorted out by disallowing migrants to come here, no matter how much people would like to think otherwise. A lot of our systems are broken, and it ain't down to how many people are allowed into the country.

A few hundred per 20,000 is an awful lot of immigrants in a country our size

emo72

wakka12 wrote: »

A few hundred per 20,000 is an awful lot of immigrants in a country our size

ya...but......where is 20000 number coming from? can we all agree that once the word gets out that we are processing and dispersing throughout europe that there will be much bigger numbers pushing north? 1% of an open ended number can be quite large.

and i dont begrudge people trying to make a better life for themselves. im pretty sure we should help. but we can only give what we actually have. im not long back from A and E in beaumont hospital. thats 3rd world in there. will we have to make more cutbacks in there to house refugees and asylum seekers?

MathDebater

Grayson wrote: »

For centuries Irish people left this former craphole of a country. Pretty much every Irish family has relations in the US, Canada or Australia.

You're comparing immigration into vastly uninhabited new world, continent sized countries with resources to boot, to immigration into a tiny island off of the atlantic that is currently experience a social housing crisis, suffering from high unemployment and where essential services are being cut to the bone.

You realise this is an absurd comparison to make, right? .

IrishTrajan

wakka12 wrote: »

It would be the 64th biggest town in ireland

It actually makes me curious. What if we were to put all these people in one town up in say Donegal, relatively isolated but still close enough to avail of state services and stuff.

Would it become something like Malmo, where criminal gangs take over, or would it function completely the same?

emo72 wrote: »

ya...but......where is 20000 number coming from? can we all agree that once the word gets out that we are processing and dispersing throughout europe that there will be much bigger numbers pushing north? 1% of an open ended number can be quite large.

It's 200 odd per 20,000. So if 40,000 come in, we have to see 400. Our number will probably go up seeing as how the British are refusing to agree.

end of the road

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Maybe not. But we can do our best to send them back. Taking them will just encourage everyone to come. It would escalate the numbers to levels that it would be impossible to manage. Let alone the increased numbers that would die en route

sending them back has been tried and it has failed, they just keep coming, including those who have been sent back.

MathDebater

mikeym wrote: »

Wasnt there stories of Christians being turfed out of the over crowded boats by muslims.

They chucked them overboard! Murder Christians on your way to claim asylum in a predominantly Christian country. The mind boggles.

Italian police say they have arrested 15 Muslim migrants after they allegedly threw 12 Christians overboard following a row on a boat heading to Italy.

The Christian migrants, said to be from Ghana and Nigeria, are all feared dead.

In a separate incident, more than 40 people drowned after another migrant boat sank between Libya and Italy.

Almost 10,000 migrants trying to cross the Mediterranean have been rescued in recent days. Italy has called for more help from the EU to handle the crisis.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32337725

visual

end of the road wrote: »

"an attempt at pc" dear jesus. its about time the low rent who use this racist bigoted term "pc" get it into their heads that it doesn't exist.

It's not disguised as racism it a simple plain truth that obviously went over your head.

Expect me to pay for it then my opinion is valid.
If your going to put one or two in your own home and set an example then and only then will I consider your PC waffle valid.

I also take from your slur that you own your home so view those who rent as some lower class beneath you. Is this your attempt to impose class distinction to mask your own fears or dismiss a valid point. Who pays for a never ending influx from one continent to a hand full of countries.

BoJack Horseman

MathDebater wrote: »

They chucked them overboard! Murder Christians on your way to claim asylum in a predominantly Christian country. The mind boggles.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32337725

You heard the mod.

Speak no ill of muslims , lest they deploy the lawyers.

end of the road

IrishTrajan wrote: »

These are not all refugees, End. Most of them are economic migrants. It's nice to see you're still blindly swinging for the left-wing though. "It's the bankers faults! The poor migrants we should take them all in!".

"I've no issue with us helping the migrants"

How many homeless people live in your home?

can you quote where i said it was all the bankers fault and that we should "take them all in" or are you just spouting a little rant?

end of the road

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Both parties were anti-migration and had plans. Abbot just marketed his ideas better. Do you really think it's a conspiracy theory by them?

i'm sure abbot has his own "agenda" but if he can sell it to the gullible and make out its a great success in the hope of being re-elected then fair play i suppose

Del.Monte

end of the road wrote: »

sending them back has been tried and it has failed, they just keep coming, including those who have been sent back.

So what's your answer - just do away with nation states altogether and have complete freedom of movement for refugees, criminals, terrorists ....oh I forgot Ireland already operates that policy. How will the Irish authorities check out the immigrants for Al-Qaeda and other potential threats? Ah shure we're neutral and nobody would ever use Ireland as a base to attack the UK or Ireland itself. :rolleyes:

IrishTrajan

end of the road wrote: »

i'm sure abbot has his own "agenda" but if he can sell it to the gullible and make out its a great success in the hope of being re-elected then fair play i suppose

Pretty much every major party in Australia was pro-immigration controls.

Are you still convinced it isn't working, and is just a conspiracy by Abbot's Government?

xhoundx

end of the road wrote: »

sending them back has been tried and it has failed, they just keep coming, including those who have been sent back.

Keeping on sending them back will work better in the long run, the message will filter through over time.
Keep on taking them in and that message will filter back too.
We have no moral obligation to take anyone in, we are a neutral country that have caused no hardships anywhere in the world. As a nation of people we consistently give generously to those in need, but to start taking in thousands of people from a culture completely alien to our way of life is going to end in tears.

If you feel you should be helping more perhaps you could volunteer on an overseas aid mission for a few months each yea. Just don't expect the rest of us to share your neediness to be seen to be caring

end of the road

visual wrote: »

It's not disguised as racism it a simple plain truth that obviously went over your head.

Expect me to pay for it then my opinion is valid.
If your going to put one or two in your own home and set an example then and only then will I consider your PC waffle valid.

I also take from your slur that you own your home so view those who rent as some lower class beneath you. Is this your attempt to impose class distinction to mask your own fears or dismiss a valid point. Who pays for a never ending influx from one continent to a hand full of countries.

"pc waffle" . can you not post a rant without using that bigoted term "pc" . there is no such thing as pc. its a myth. low rent refers to those who use such terms as part of their rants. "i'm not racist but" is another one for example

G_R

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

You heard the mod.

Speak no ill of muslims , lest they deploy the lawyers.

Mod
If you've an issue with a mods post, PM them please. Don't post about it on thread. You know better than that!

IrishTrajan

end of the road wrote: »

can you quote where i said it was all the bankers fault and that we should "take them all in" or are you just spouting a little rant?

end of the road wrote: »

i'd go one further, and have told them to **** off we won't pay. but that would take someone with guts. in saying that, i've no issue with us helping the migrants. i'd hope to jesus we never experience the desperation of having to get on a boat knowing you may not make it to try flee

In regards to banking:

end of the road wrote: »

i'd go one further, and have told them to **** off we won't pay.

In regards to migrants

end of the road wrote: »

in saying that, i've no issue with us helping the migrants.

Now, if you could kindly answer me, how many migrants or homeless people live with you? There's people in need, why won't you help them?

FionnK86

I hope we get some cool migrants, lot of w*nkers here in this country.

Grandpa Hassan

end of the road wrote: »

sending them back has been tried and it has failed, they just keep coming, including those who have been sent back.

So the answer is to open the gates to everyone, right? Active encourage people to come? Do you think the word won't spread across Somalia and Eritrea that European doors are open? And the numbers we are currently seeing will multiply.

You are right. We send them back and they try again. That is the lease of two evils

IrishTrajan

end of the road wrote: »

"pc waffle" . can you not post a rant without using that bigoted term "pc" . there is no such thing as pc. its a myth. low rent refers to those who use such terms as part of their rants. "i'm not racist but" is another one for example

Nobody here has said anything about "I'm not racist". We have been called "bigots" and "Oliver Cromwell" by people on your side of the fence.

You're completely ignoring everything that says taking in thousands of migrants is a bad god damn idea because "they're black and we're white, so if we challenge their culture we're racist and it isn't legitimate!"

end of the road

Del.Monte wrote: »

So what's your answer - just do away with nation states altogether and have complete freedom of movement for refugees, criminals, terrorists ....oh I forgot Ireland already operates that policy. How will the Irish authorities check out the immigrants for Al-Qaeda and other potential threats? Ah shure we're neutral and nobody would ever use Ireland as a base to attack the UK or Ireland itself. :rolleyes:

the irish don't operate such a system you claim they operate. how does any country check that someone is a member of a terrorist group? through sharing police information if it exists. otherwise, they have nothing to go on like all other countries

IrishTrajan

FionnK86 wrote: »

I hope we get some cool migrants, lot of w*nkers here in this country.

I actually second this. I have a couple friends from Syria who would probably fit in rather well.

Can we have a "no dickheads" policy rather than a quota on immigration? I'd gladly take in 100,000 cool people over 200 dick heads.

bjork

Nope, send them all back, we're full thanks.

end of the road

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Pretty much every major party in Australia was pro-immigration controls.

Are you still convinced it isn't working, and is just a conspiracy by Abbot's Government?

i don't believe it is working. all policies will always stop a few, but realistically if one is that desperate to get to australia, they will do so eventually

Aidric

wakka12 wrote: »

Repopulating connacht with poor muslim refugees who don't even speak english is surely a good way to restore population loss in the area without seriously damaging the culture of the area :rolleyes:

They should fit in fine in Galway.

IrishTrajan

end of the road wrote: »

the irish don't operate such a system you claim they operate. how does any country check that someone is a member of a terrorist group? through sharing police information if it exists. otherwise, they have nothing to go on like all other countries

Do you think there's a book or computer file with every terrorist in the world, from now until the end of time? No, intelligence services find that information. G2 (our domestic intelligence service) works closely with Interpol on criminal organizations, and likely has a rather extensive list of IRA affiliates from working with the British.

There was also the belief that there are several ISIS people in Ireland, laying low, since we lack the investment in our intelligence service (and defence forces in general) to combat such people (no doubt if we brought up increasing defence spending, you would scream it down as imperialist, as well).

darkpagandeath

Do they just ask once they are safe if they are Affiliated with ISIL ? And if they say no let them on their way ?

Grandpa Hassan

end of the road wrote: »

i don't believe it is working. all policies will always stop a few, but realistically if one is that desperate to get to australia, they will do so eventually

They will. But it doesn't mean you invite them in

IrishTrajan

end of the road wrote: »

i don't believe it is working. all policies will always stop a few, but realistically if one is that desperate to get to australia, they will do so eventually

Of course it is. Labour was dealing with 60,000 illegal boats. Abbot's government has largely stopped illegal migration, and is instead taking in 80,000 legal migrants over the same period.

We're not saying "no blacks, no muslims". We're saying we don't want all of them, and whatever ones we do take, deserve to be here.

Grayson

IrishTrajan wrote: »

When the Irish went to Australia, the US and Canada, they were treated like filth and only changed the system through violence and crime mixed with politics. Forgive me if I find your example of Irish integration a bit lacking.

Also, the comparison of Anglosphere citizens moving to other Anglo nations is a false equivalency. We weren't bring a massive culture change. We didn't bring our own language since most of us spoke English, we didn't ask for Brehon law... We were quite homogenous.

Then exactly how many do we take, and how do we sort them? Do we take those in direst need, split up families? Does one person needing to get here urgently mean all their family can come, taking up space for others who require urgent care?

Err... How many homeless have you taken into your own home? How many asylum seekers or non-EU migrants? You surely have room for one or two, no?

I bring that last part up not to slander you, but to support my point. It is human nature to not want to surrender what is "ours" for "them". Why should Ireland, which had absolutely no role in Libya, Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan have to pay the price? If we give the migrants a place to live, surely it will embolden yet more migrants to attempt the illegal crossing also?

So you think that because Irish people were treated like **** by racists we shouldn't take people in here and we should just as racist as the people who made life hard for the Irish?

At what part did this turn into a "take people into your home" thread. You do realise how absolutely stupid that is.

Most muslim societies are very similar to here. Do you know anything about mainstream islam? Have you seen the muslims who are here already destroying our society? Strangely Ireland is a popular country with muslim immigrants because we are socially conservative.

I have a feeling that all you know about islam is what you have read in the daily mail. I've lived in a secular muslim country that has since turned religious. Lots of people there are fleeing and after syria it has the second largest displaced population in the middle east because of people fleeing ISIS.

Is it just islam you have a problem with?Would you be ok with christian immigrants who are fleeing persecution? Or how about white muslims? Ot white christians? Seriously, if you answer one question let me know who you think are acceptable.

end of the road

xhoundx wrote: »

Keeping on sending them back will work better in the long run, the message will filter through over time.

no it won't. it never has and it never will. look at france, they have been doing exactly that. sending people back. hasn't worked now has it

xhoundx wrote: »

Keep on taking them in and that message will filter back too.

it won't make a difference. if one is desperate to get to a particular country then do it they will eventually.

xhoundx wrote: »

We have no moral obligation to take anyone in.

we do i'm afraid. we voted for it and signed up to the treaties that mean we have such obligations.

xhoundx wrote: »

a culture completely alien to our way of life

what "way of life"

xhoundx wrote: »

don't expect the rest of us to share your neediness to be seen to be caring

what "needyness to be seen to be caring" . i don't need to be "seen to be caring" . the "rest of us" whoever "us" is will care whether they want to or not. ireland is going to take in some of these refugees whether you like it or not. get used to it, its happening and there is nothing you can do about it.

K.Flyer

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

They will. But it doesn't mean you invite them in

Some people think it's fine to let them in, give them an Irish passport, let them go and stir the sh!t in another country and expect the Irish government to bail them out.
:rolleyes:

Grayson

bjork wrote: »

Nope, send them all back, we're full thanks.

We've only just hit prefamine populations and are still one of the least densly populated countries in western europe.

MathDebater

Most muslim societies are very similar to here

Are you taking the piss now or what? Do you seriously believe this?

end of the road

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

So the answer is to open the gates to everyone, right? Active encourage people to come? Do you think the word won't spread across Somalia and Eritrea that European doors are open? And the numbers we are currently seeing will multiply.

You are right. We send them back and they try again. That is the lease of two evils

they are going to come in their droves no matter what.

emo72

end of the road wrote: »

no it won't. it never has and it never will. look at france, they have been doing exactly that. sending people back. hasn't worked now has it



it won't make a difference. if one is desperate to get to a particular country then do it they will eventually.



we do i'm afraid. we voted for it and signed up to the treaties that mean we have such obligations.



what "way of life"



what "needyness to be seen to be caring" . i don't need to be "seen to be caring" . the "rest of us" whoever "us" is will care whether they want to or not. ireland is going to take in some of these refugees whether you like it or not. get used to it, its happening and there is nothing you can do about it.

mate, you dont have to sound so gleeful when you post!

end of the road

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Do you think there's a book or computer file with every terrorist in the world, from now until the end of time? No, intelligence services find that information. G2 (our domestic intelligence service) works closely with Interpol on criminal organizations, and likely has a rather extensive list of IRA affiliates from working with the British.

There was also the belief that there are several ISIS people in Ireland, laying low, since we lack the investment in our intelligence service (and defence forces in general) to combat such people (no doubt if we brought up increasing defence spending, you would scream it down as imperialist, as well).

would i? have you anything to back that up? after all only i know what my opinion is on defence spending

jackofalltrades

My name is URL wrote: »

That's hardly the fault of the EU as an organisation. That's down to individual sates and their interests, and our own government's failure to be able to negotiate a fairer deal.

Ireland has benefited hugely from its membership of the EU. Perhaps moreso than any other member country.

The same states that financially contributed towards our growth over the decades were the same ones that were more than happy for us to take a massive hit to protect them.
We have both gained and lost due to being part of the EU/EURO.
And I completely agree that we should have negotiated a better deal.

There are thousands of Irish people moving abroad for economical reasons every month.
Do those who are so opposed to migration think that they shouldn't be allowed to leave? Seems only fair really.

So long as they are moving abroad legally it's not a fair comparison.

The housing crisis isn't going to be sorted out by disallowing migrants to come here.....

You're right it's going to make it worse.

_Kaiser_

Grayson wrote: »

We've only just hit prefamine populations and are still one of the least densly populated countries in western europe.

And yet we have a housing shortage in our capital city, and many of our towns have been decimated by the recession - but sure let's invite boat loads of economic migrants in with nothing to support themselves.. what could go wrong?!!

end of the road wrote: »

what "needyness to be seen to be caring" . i don't need to be "seen to be caring" . the "rest of us" whoever "us" is will care whether they want to or not. ireland is going to take in some of these refugees whether you like it or not. get used to it, its happening and there is nothing you can do about it.

I know the current Government would make you wonder, but this is still a democratic country last I checked. I'm not sure I buy into your "this is how it is.. tough!" attitude to that.

bjork

Grayson wrote: »

We've only just hit prefamine populations and are still one of the least densly populated countries in western europe.

Africa had less densely populated places

BoJack Horseman

Grayson wrote: »

We've only just hit prefamine populations and are still one of the least densly populated countries in western europe.

True.

Luckily for Ireland, the government is committing to taking in 35,000+ over the course of the next Dáil.

Grand, seeing as we're so empty & whatnot.