Ireland to assist in migrant crisis in the Med.

snubbleste

Maeve Sheehan has a soft selective 1670 word essay about Walli in the Indo.

Summary: Walli mainly walked the 6000km from Afghanistan to Calais. Got into a container on a lorry there and found himself in Naas three days later. He wanted to get to a safe haven with the money he had. Apparently there was nowhere else safe within a 6000km radius. Independent - A migrant's trek to Ireland via Calais

nokia69

I saw some Afghans just arrived in Greece being interviewrd on the BBC last night, they looked like they were from northern Afghanistan, Uzbeks or Tajiks would be my guess, if they were really worried about their safety they should have went to Uzbekistan or Tajikistan

the people of Europe are mugs

_Kaiser_

snubbleste wrote: »

Maeve Sheehan has a soft selective 1670 word essay about Walli in the Indo.

Summary: Walli mainly walked the 6000km from Afghanistan to Calais. Got into a container on a lorry there and found himself in Naas three days later. He wanted to get to a safe haven with the money he had. Apparently there was nowhere else safe within a 6000km radius. Independent - A migrant's trek to Ireland via Calais

You left out the most important bit...

"He is now officially an asylum seeker. That entitles him to certain things, including an obligation to provide him with a temporary residence," he said.

So for this man the trip has paid off. He entered the State illegally in the back of a truck and a Judge has validated his behaviour and decided he now has entitlements, including:

He released him on bail, on condition that he sign on at a garda station, and asked that he be given a mobile phone, with the GPS activated.

Who's paying for this phone and the calls back home? Is this standard practise? If the idea is to be able to keep track of his movements, I assume the Judge knows this can be deactivated with a few clicks on any modern phone. Maybe an ankle bracelet would have been a better idea... but then that might give the impression that the man had done something wrong I suppose! :rolleyes:

As I've said before, there are numerous ways and means to enter this country/Europe legally and this man would have had plenty of opportunity to do just that at any point on his stroll. Sanctioning and indeed rewarding his behaviour (and that of others like him) makes a mockery of that system and is an insult to those who DO apply through the proper channels.

What should have happened is that he was escorted directly to Dublin Airport and sent back to where he came from, at which point he'd be free to avail of those same channels.

RichardCeann

You would be mocked and ridiculed if you suggested that asylum seekers get given mobile phones.

Uncle Ben

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You left out the most important bit...



So for this man the trip has paid off. He entered the State illegally in the back of a truck and a Judge has validated his behaviour and decided he now has entitlements, including:



Who's paying for this phone and the calls back home? Is this standard practise? If the idea is to be able to keep track of his movements, I assume the Judge knows this can be deactivated with a few clicks on any modern phone. Maybe an ankle bracelet would have been a better idea... but then that might give the impression that the man had done something wrong I suppose! :rolleyes:

As I've said before, there are numerous ways and means to enter this country/Europe legally and this man would have had plenty of opportunity to do just that at any point on his stroll. Sanctioning and indeed rewarding his behaviour (and that of others like him) makes a mockery of that system and is an insult to those who DO apply through the proper channels.

What should have happened is that he was escorted directly to Dublin Airport and sent back to where he came from, at which point he'd be free to avail of those same channels.

And all the time the number of Irish homeless increase.

snubbleste

Well it's not clear if the State paid for his phone as it was sourced from his friend.
Farah Mokhtareizadeh visited him on Friday, bringing a working mobile phone and food from his home country.

_Kaiser_

Uncle Ben wrote: »

And all the time the number of Irish homeless increase.

But sure that doesn't matter .. they're all junkie criminals with mental problems , not like these poor migrants who we're ferrying around the Med and handing out phones and entitlements to. </sarcasm>

Charity begins at home and we have more than enough genuine deserving cases at home - for example

Child homelessness outside Dublin is increasing at almost three times the rate it is in the capital, the latest figures from the Department of Environment show.

The data show that while Dublin has seen its homeless children population increase by 44 per cent in the six months to June, the numbers have gone up by 130 per cent outside Dublin.

Every region of the State, bar one, has seen an increase in child homelessness.

The total number of children in emergency accommodation across the State in the week of June 22nd-28th was 1,318, in 620 families.
This compares with 865 children in 401 families in emergency accommodation in the week of 19th to 25th January and represents a 55 per cent increase in child homelessness the first six months of the year.

_Kaiser_

snubbleste wrote: »

Well it's not clear if the State paid for his phone as it was sourced from his friend.
Farah Mokhtareizadeh visited him on Friday, bringing a working mobile phone and food from his home country.

I'm open to correction then. I'd have assumed a directive from the Court would mean the State is liable/responsible for following the request?

Means Of Escape

Let the Afghan influx begin!!

snubbleste

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm open to correction then. I'd have assumed a directive from the Court would mean the State is liable/responsible for following the request?

I can't see a judge directing the State to provide someone with a telephone to comply with bail. I assume Walli's solicitor gave assurances that a phone could be sourced for him.

Either way, he needs to inform all his mates to find Ireland-bound lorries.

_Kaiser_

snubbleste wrote: »

I can't see a judge directing the State to provide someone with a telephone to comply with bail. I assume Walli's solicitor gave assurances that a phone could be sourced for him.

I'm not sure what the Judge's intention was though as (as I said above) if the idea was to use it as a tracker, it can easily be disabled.

Either way, it's ridiculous that people can break into a truck, enter this country illegally and then have these actions validated by our authorities and be granted entitlements when they have broken the laws we've created to deal with exactly this situation... especially at a time when native and legal citizens may find themselves living in hotel rooms or on the street because they can't afford accommodation for the night.

RichardCeann

Why is this Iranian American involving herself and trying to interfere with Irelands immigration policies? Most odd.

snubbleste

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

..
Either way, it's ridiculous that people can break into a truck, enter this country illegally and then have these actions validated by our authorities and be granted entitlements when they have broken the laws we've created to deal with exactly this situation... especially at a time when native and legal citizens may find themselves living in hotel rooms or on the street because they can't afford accommodation for the night.

Well we don't have a choice really, once someone whispers ASYLUM, the State is required to assist & process.

Uncle Ben

RichardCeann wrote: »

Why is this Iranian American involving herself and trying to interfere with Irelands immigration policies? Most odd.

Probably because there are plenty more where he came from and it could be the start of a lucrative business.

Uncle Ben

snubbleste wrote: »

Well we don't have a choice really, once someone whispers ASYLUM, the State is required to assist & process.

A good reason for keeping direct provision centres.

AlekSmart

RichardCeann wrote: »

Why is this Iranian American involving herself and trying to interfere with Irelands immigration policies? Most odd.

Possibly because it's seen as "Noble",and thus can be referenced in the future as signs of being Socially Aware,committed to Multiculturalism,ending Starvation and being against World Poverty etc....

Therefore,I would suggest that Ms Mokhtarzadeh's involvement is simply par for the course in these representational matters.

Given her recent,and well publicised,media debut,as spokesperson for all things anti-establishment (A shared passion with her partner,Deputy Paul Murphy ?),the timely arrival of Walli Ullah must have seemed like manna from heaven,in terms of things to deflect public attention from the pre-existing,and by now slightly stale stuff of Water Charging,and Greece's perilous situation.

Going on her public appearances and utterances,it appears Farah is agin ALL forms of borders and notions of Statehood.

This sort of stuff is cyclic,and makes little more than a few ripples in the overall pond.

I see little apart from opportunism and career buliding cloaked in a form of syrupy feelgood factor,as each new "Activist" finds themselves having to climb a little higher on the ladder in order to maintain their new status.

As to the status of Mr Ullah,it's of little or no importance to the likes of the ARA,as he ticks all the boxes required in the present circulstances.

Should Mr Ullah's story turn out to be a load of cobblers,he'll be quietly decoupled and left for the Irish State to sort-out,whilst the "Anti Racism Network"...or "Anti-Facism Ireland" or whichever activist cause is then de rigeur,move along to their next cause.

The most important element in all of this,for the "Anti" folk,is that ALL of the safeguards and procedures currently used by States to manage their borders be thrown aside in the "World Citizenship" crusade.

For the rest of us,it's having to watch and listen to the Irish Media cutting n'pasting up a steady stream of "Anti" themed propaganda that proves the most tiring.

With some of Irelands population finally managing to see a little uplift in their personal situations,it's of prime importance to these "Anti's" to nip this in the bud,by ensuring that nobody manages to get too far ahead of what the "Anti's" decree to be an acceptable level of existence.

lightspeed

If ISIS wanted to send people Europe to launch attacks couldn't they just put a few on a boat posing as desperate fleeing migrants?

How do we know the background to these migrants? If someone had a criminal record for a serioius crime like rape or murder I'd imagine they would find it near impossible to emigrate here.

Yet we take anybody in a boat claiming to be fleeing for asylum no questions asked and with surely no credible way of checking if any have a criminal record.Its well known that most rape cases don't result in a conviction in many African countries. Id have my doubts of Libya or Syria being much different.

If 1% of the 20000 have sympathy for ISIS beliefs or cause and decide to launch a shoot out suicide in the name of allah, that 200 people.

Plus as others have mentioned, what is the end date or figure?
Where will the money come to fund all of Europes migrants? The humanitarian argument does not answer does questions.

Its an amazing contrast when you look at the hot topic immigration is in USA mainly as result of illegal Mexican migrants. Yet we continue to take in so many migrants into Europe with benefits and at a political level, its something most polticians wont dare to criticise.

darkpagandeath

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Let the Afghan influx begin!!

Aye our useful idiot TD's would probably welcome our Tolerant Afghan friends with open arms. Our Afghan friends would be the first ones voting to help gay rights or ones for women.

WakeUp

AlekSmart wrote: »

Possibly because it's seen as "Noble",and thus can be referenced in the future as signs of being Socially Aware,committed to Multiculturalism,ending Starvation and being against World Poverty etc....

Therefore,I would suggest that Ms Mokhtarzadeh's involvement is simply par for the course in these representational matters.

Given her recent,and well publicised,media debut,as spokesperson for all things anti-establishment (A shared passion with her partner,Deputy Paul Murphy ?),the timely arrival of Walli Ullah must have seemed like manna from heaven,in terms of things to deflect public attention from the pre-existing,and by now slightly stale stuff of Water Charging,and Greece's perilous situation.

Going on her public appearances and utterances,it appears Farah is agin ALL forms of borders and notions of Statehood.

This sort of stuff is cyclic,and makes little more than a few ripples in the overall pond.

I see little apart from opportunism and career buliding cloaked in a form of syrupy feelgood factor,as each new "Activist" finds themselves having to climb a little higher on the ladder in order to maintain their new status.

As to the status of Mr Ullah,it's of little or no importance to the likes of the ARA,as he ticks all the boxes required in the present circulstances.

Should Mr Ullah's story turn out to be a load of cobblers,he'll be quietly decoupled and left for the Irish State to sort-out,whilst the "Anti Racism Network"...or "Anti-Facism Ireland" or whichever activist cause is then de rigeur,move along to their next cause.

The most important element in all of this,for the "Anti" folk,is that ALL of the safeguards and procedures currently used by States to manage their borders be thrown aside in the "World Citizenship" crusade.

For the rest of us,it's having to watch and listen to the Irish Media cutting n'pasting up a steady stream of "Anti" themed propaganda that proves the most tiring.

With some of Irelands population finally managing to see a little uplift in their personal situations,it's of prime importance to these "Anti's" to nip this in the bud,by ensuring that nobody manages to get too far ahead of what the "Anti's" decree to be an acceptable level of existence.

the people within the establishment you allude to here should not be listened too. as they are plain as day morons if they believe the current situation is both sustainable and tenable. it isnt. as always it will come down to basic economics, numbers and figures. advocating an open door policy to what is going on is just completely detached from the realities of how a state functions not only from a financial point of view but also a social one aswell. sooner or later a proper debate about what is happening will need to take place clearly these people are not all refugees in the sense of what that word was supposed to mean vis a vis the UN convention of 1951 and in the other amendments to that convention. yes we can help people but we cant help everyone unfortunately. just how it is.

JustTheOne

lightspeed wrote: »

If ISIS wanted to send people Europe to launch attacks couldn't they just put a few on a boat posing as desperate fleeing migrants?

How do we know the background to these migrants? If someone had a criminal record for a serioius crime like rape or murder I'd imagine they would find it near impossible to emigrate here.

Yet we take anybody in a boat claiming to be fleeing for asylum no questions asked and with surely no credible way of checking if any have a criminal record.Its well known that most rape cases don't result in a conviction in many African countries. Id have my doubts of Libya or Syria being much different.

If 1% of the 20000 have sympathy for ISIS beliefs or cause and decide to launch a shoot out suicide in the name of allah, that 200 people.

Plus as others have mentioned, what is the end date or figure?
Where will the money come to fund all of Europes migrants? The humanitarian argument does not answer does questions.

Its an amazing contrast when you look at the hot topic immigration is in USA mainly as result of illegal Mexican migrants. Yet we continue to take in so many migrants into Europe with benefits and at a political level, its something most polticians wont dare to criticise.

Sure isis said they were going to flood Europe with members and attack.

Tunisia is only the beginning.

They must be shocked at how easy it is to send their fighters to Europe.

lightspeed

JustTheOne wrote: »

Sure isis said they were going to flood Europe with members and attack.

Tunisia is only the beginning.

They must be shocked at how easy it is to send their fighters to Europe.

As am I and it feels like Europe continues to remain arrogant and asleep. Like months before the attacks at Charlie Hebdo in France and Tunisia it was long known people were flocking over there from Europe to join ISIS.

They were going there with the purpose of training to bring war to the west and then when they are still able to travel back, there is a shock and surprise as to how it could happen.

Even if every single migrant does not share any of ISIS beliefs now, who is they say they wont in the near future.

Many will view my opinion as a bigoted anti-immigrant opinion but to blindy assume that allowing all migrants into Europe they way we are carries without no risk is just arrogance.

AlekSmart

lightspeed wrote: »

As am I and it feels like Europe continues to remain arrogant and asleep. Like months before the attacks at Charlie Hebdo in France and Tunisia it was long known people were flocking over there from Europe to join ISIS.

They were going there with the purpose of training to bring war to the west and then when they are still able to travel back, there is a shock and surprise as to how it could happen.

Even if every single migrant does not share any of ISIS beliefs now, who is they say they wont in the near future.

Many will view my opinion as a bigoted anti-immigrant opinion but to blindy assume that allowing all migrants into Europe they way we are carries without no risk is just arrogance.

I would describe it as Prudence.

It is a rather alarming reality that the groups who have most to fear from radical ISIL/Sub Saharan African actions are those left-wing alliance types,whose core beliefs are the very first targets of the radicalized Islamic beliver.

The risk is already high,but it defies belief that we continue to give credence to spokespeople and groups who call for further dismantling and/or abandonment of Imigration controls.

In other words,these people advocate our Western Societies further increase this risk,in order to achieve...what exactly ?



The term "cutting one's own throat" never seemed more prophetic...:(

AlekSmart

snubbleste wrote: »

Maeve Sheehan has a soft selective 1670 word essay about Walli in the Indo.

Summary: Walli mainly walked the 6000km from Afghanistan to Calais. Got into a container on a lorry there and found himself in Naas three days later. He wanted to get to a safe haven with the money he had. Apparently there was nowhere else safe within a 6000km radius. Independent - A migrant's trek to Ireland via Calais

I have little doubt that Mr Ullah had the United Kingdom as his prefered destination.

I suggest that arriving in our Republic was an unplanned detour,which has led to his present situation.

http://www.sarinuk.com/

The UK already has a widely based Afghan community,with a substantial number of undocumented Afghani's arriving in order to avail of,what they see,as opportunities.

Mr Ullah's arrival on Irish soil,is a relatively little travelled route for Afghani's and his experiences here will be of interest to a great many observers....not all of whom would be well disposed towards our Societal structures...;)

Means Of Escape

You will have a situation here within 5 years where those who are being brought here will portestquite dramatically,vocally and agressively on having to continue to stay in direct provision
I am basing this concept on the show brazenness and defiance for all authority shown by their equivalent in Calais

The biggest laugh of all is that there will be TDs who will run the line (as rocks and sticks fly by) "We are very aware of the hardships that these people have faced in these dwellings and so we will be allocating 700,000 euros for .........."

recedite

EuNavforMed still lurking without much action.
https://www.facebook.com/EunavforMed
Italian rear admirals strutting around in crisp uniforms. Maybe time to put the British Royal Navy in charge of the operation.

Uncle Ben

Another ship to be sent to the Med. It would be nice if the same amount of money spent was replicated here on a daily basis taking people out of homelessness.

Del.Monte

Peter Sutherland, cheer leader for an 'open-door' policy on immigration admits that there is a growing problem throughout Europe with racism, but his solution is to say that we should take in more immigrants - the logic is mind boggling. It's akin to a fire crew arriving at the site of a fire and instead of putting it out throwing on petrol.

Del.Monte

Just to get off the number of the beast.

Where did it go?

RichardCeann

The Immigrant Council of Ireland are unhappy that we aren't taking in more migrants and want us to take in similar numbers to the Netherlands and Scandinavian countries.

The Irish Naval service is being praised for being directly involved in saving the lives of over 3,500 migrants in the Mediterranean this year.

Meanwhile, the government is coming under pressure to further increase the number of migrants being resettled into Ireland.

Earlier this year, Ireland doubled the quota of migrants it would accept into this country - up to about 600.

But Jerry O'Connor from the Immigrant Council of Ireland, says other countries - with similar populations to ours - are accepting thousands of migrants:

http://www.todayfm.com/mobile/index.php?id=20341

Jerry also wants and end to DP. I wonder where he wants us to house the people currently in the system and the thousands of newcomers he wants us to take in? There isn't exactly an abundance of social housing lying around or menial level jobs for thess people to slot into.

AlekSmart

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Another ship to be sent to the Med. It would be nice if the same amount of money spent was replicated here on a daily basis taking people out of homelessness.

The Irish involvement in Operation Triton becomes ever more incredible as each day passes.

Even the Press Coverage has taken on a "managed" appearance,as the hints to get on-message with the "Humanitarian Crisis" angle are heeded.

This results in an increase in photographs of helpless children and lone females,which tend to be far more useful to the NGO business than strapping young lad's pulling their hoodies over their faces when approached by photo-journalists.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/third-naval-vessel-earmarked-for-mediterranean-31439177.html

It now appears that Ireland is hoping for a bit of a change in the oul weather in order to allow us to manage our Naval resources independently...

However, the Government is hoping that the dispatch of a fourth vessel will not be necessary, given the predicted deterioration in Mediterranean weather over the autumn, which will dramatically reduce the activity of people smugglers.

If anything highlights the complete lack of EU (Read Italy,France & Greece) planning in relation to this long-running issue then this is IT.

Ireland has done it's bit,we have deployed in excess of 30% of our entire Naval Service at any one time,to do little exept attempt to cover-over deficiencies in Italian administration over the past 2 decades.

We have,in the process,placed gallant little Ireland,a few rungs higher up the "most favoured destination" list,something which will be underlined as the Walid Ullah case meanders through our beleagured Asylum "System".

In Mr Ullah's case,we now know he entered Ireland via Calais,which would in the real world,result in his swift return to French juristiction in order for his Asylum application to be procedded there.

However,whether by accident or design,Mr Ullah's arrival in Kildare,and the subsequent rush to the battlements on his behalf,already has featured his Solicitor jumping wholly aboard the self-criticism bandwagon...

http://www.the42.ie/prisoners-cloverhill-riot-2243491-Jul2015/?r_dir_d=1

His solicitor Conal Boyce said that following treatment the man is “beginning to realise that we are not all the savages that he thought we were yesterday evening”.

The swift,judically recommended admission of Mr Ullah into the Irish Asylum System,now sends a commendably clear message to Calais and beyond.

Peter Sutherland is in no position to sit in Judgement on any of this,given his background in Irish Administration and his continuing involvement in parallell systems of shaping Public Opinion and structuring mass management of it.

It's still noteworthy that none of the Irish Ministers involved has offered so much as a "back-of-envelope" estimate as to how much the Irish State is paying upfront to provide this service to Italy,and when,if ever,we can expect payment ?

The questions as to how much the full-package (the 1,150 additional places) is going to cost on an ongoing basis has also been left swinging in the Mediterranian breeze ....:(

AlekSmart

RichardCeann wrote: »

The Immigrant Council of Ireland are unhappy that we aren't taking in more migrants and want us to take in similar numbers to the Netherlands and Scandinavian countries.

http://www.todayfm.com/mobile/index.php?id=20341

Jerry also wants and end to DP. I wonder where he wants us to house the people currently in the system and the thousands of newcomers he wants us to take in? There isn't exactly an abundance of social housing lying around or menial level jobs for thess people to slot into.

Jerry and his able associates in the "Immigrant Rights" sector,knows full well that this crisis provides his sector with a golden opportunity to further advance each Organizations status.

The prospect of the ICI and all those other "Anti" agencies having to recruit more "Professionals" and "Aid-Workers" to cope with this situation must be difficult to refuse.

The mainstream Irish media is already well onside (with only hybrids like the UK Times not yet fully on message) and the "new" names appearing daily in Press announcements all seems to point to a slick operation.

Make no mistake,there are Political Careers in the making here....;)

DeadHand

RichardCeann wrote: »

The Immigrant Council of Ireland are unhappy that we aren't taking in more migrants and want us to take in similar numbers to the Netherlands and Scandinavian countries

The same Scandinavia that was once considered the safest place in the world for women but after receiving the joys of mass immigration from the Muslim world is now known in some quarters as the "rape capital" of the West?

Nodin

DeadHand wrote: »

The same Scandinavia that was once considered the safest place in the world for women but after receiving the joys of mass immigration from the Muslim world is now known in some quarters as the "rape capital" of the West?

And what quarters they are....somewhere wayyyy over to the right.

DeadHand

Nodin wrote: »

And what quarters they are....somewhere wayyyy over to the right.

From that well known bastion of right wing ranting Wikipedia:

In the study, immigrants were found to be four times more likely to be investigated for lethal violence and robbery than ethnic Swedes. In addition, immigrants were three times more likely to be investigated for violent assault, and five times more likely to be investigated for sex crimes.

Smiles35

Leathal violence and robbery. So what am I reading, assualt stats mixed in with shoplifting?


Edit: Well, that first stat isnt mentioned in the news artice linked to the wikipeadia entry. Just the bottom bit. Carry on.

fly_agaric

RandomName2 wrote: »

Many levels of the EU are run by what could best be described as irresponsible children.
...
You actually couldn't make it up.

EU as a collective organisation is only as effective as the countries/politicians etc that make it up will allow it to be. The countries are bickering, palming the migrants off on each other, trying to ensure that too much of their own resources won't have to go into policing the borders, the big powers dumping most of the problem on the southern and eastern border states which are poorer and weaker militarily etc etc.
The root of the problem is a failure of collective will. The resources (military, economic) are there to solve it, but there is no unity of purpose on the issue.

Whole situation is very similar to the Yugoslav breakup [edit: a more serious problem!] when the EU states as a collective were shown up to be very weak, vacillating and disunited when there is any crisis, and the US was required to get involved. It seems little has changed since then despite new structures and treaties. I wonder is Putin watching all this with interest; maybe those little green men will pop up somewhere in the Baltics in a few years time. Evidence of this current crisis is that the rest of their EU "partners" will not be able to muster any sort of unity to respond.

Irish_man2015

I can draw the line right down the middle, plenty of pros and cons! I feel that we should help out, but marginally, let's not leave all of the work up to the Italians, they have enough economic problems as it is.Spread the migrants all over the EU, equally giving every country a portion of migrants, let's not sit back and leave then to suffer, invest in them,Europe will grow, more jobs can easily be created, Europe has plenty of natural resources still to be found, unskilled jobs are plentiful throughout the EU,maybe not on the same level that they once were, but still easily achievable!F

Nodin

DeadHand wrote: »

From that well known bastion of right wing ranting Wikipedia:

In the study, immigrants were found to be four times more likely to be investigated for lethal violence and robbery than ethnic Swedes. In addition, immigrants were three times more likely to be investigated for violent assault, and five times more likely to be investigated for sex crimes.

...which, considering they are new to a country where there is a far wider definition of "sex crime" than there is anywhere else in Europe, is unsurprising. This has been gone through before on these boards, but don't let that stop you with todays programme of fear mongering.

RichardCeann

Nodin wrote: »

...which, considering they are new to a country where there is a far wider definition of "sex crime" than there is anywhere else in Europe, is unsurprising. This has been gone through before on these boards, but don't let that stop you with todays programme of fear mongering.

Are there separate laws in Sweden for immigrants and natives? If not, I fail to understand your attempt to refute him.

DeadHand

Nodin wrote: »

...which, considering they are new to a country where there is a far wider definition of "sex crime" than there is anywhere else in Europe, is unsurprising. This has been gone through before on these boards, but don't let that stop you with todays programme of fear mongering.

There we have it.

Apologism for sexual crime.

As if being new to a country gives you licence to happily rape the natives.

jackofalltrades

Nodin wrote: »

...which, considering they are new to a country where there is a far wider definition of "sex crime" than there is anywhere else in Europe, is unsurprising.
This has been gone through before on these boards, but don't let that stop you with todays programme of fear mongering.

Can you prove that migrants are being caught for sex crimes that are just illegal in Sweden, but nowhere else in Europe?
And that this explains their over-representation in the figures?
And since when is ignorance of the law and excuse?
And while your are it can you explain the over-representation of migrants in Norwegian and Danish rape statistics?
Can you explain the over-representation in violent crimes in Sweden that Deadhand posted about?
And where on Boards has this been gone through before?

RichardCeann

An interesting article here that shows us it's not poverty which is causing people to come to Europe from Africa, but an increase in wealth.

“People don’t go because they have nothing, they go because they want better and more,” said Mr. Diop. “It’s aspiration.”

These people are economic migrants who couldn't afford the trafficking fees up until recently. Some more passages from the article:

The increase in per capita incomes in African countries, while not doing much much to close the gap with Europe, give people the extra resources they need to emigrate. As Paul Collier said, the relationship between income and propensity to migrate is like an inverted U. The poorest would like to migrate but can’t afford it, the richest can afford it but wouldn’t gain much. It is those in the middle that have both the incentive and the means.

A fascinating report from Senegal in the Wall Street Journal found that the country’s increasing prosperity is not encouraging people to stay at home, it is enabling more of them leave.

Senegal is a stable West African democracy, and Kothiary has profited from the currents of globalization transforming rural Africa’s more prosperous areas. Flat screen TVs and, increasingly, cars—mostly purchased with money wired home by villagers working in Europe—have reshaped what was once a settlement of mud huts. The wealth has plugged this isolated landscape of peanut farms and baobab trees into the global economy and won respect for the men who sent it.

But it has also put European living standards on real-time display, and handed young farm hands the cash to buy a ticket out.

They leave behind a proud democracy whose steady economic growth has brought American-style fast food chains, cineplexes and shopping malls to this nation of 15 million, but hasn’t kept pace with the skyrocketing aspirations of the youthful population.

The flat-screen TVs raise expectations and the computers and mobile phones give access to information about how to get to Europe.

West Africa houses several of the world’s faster-growing economies but is also sending some of the most migrants out.

Deaths along the route are also high. And yet aspiring Senegal migrants are undeterred. In Facebook chats, college students swap tips on how to avoid or appease police and bandits: “Just be polite,” was the advice a friend typed to Ibrahima Sidibé, a 28-year-old at the country’s top Cheikh Anta Diop University.

Students there, Mr. Sidibé included, have cashed out their scholarships to pay traffickers for a ride to Tripoli. Even their professors have traded in paychecks to journey north, joining policemen, civil servants and teachers, said Souleymane Jules Diop, the country’s minister for emigrants.

“People don’t go because they have nothing, they go because they want better and more,” said Mr. Diop. “It’s aspiration.”

Research by UCL’s Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration found that the probability of migration increases in line with household wealth in Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa but decreases in Latin America, reflecting that region’s greater per capita incomes.

As Christine Mungai, for South Africa’s Mail & Guardian notes:

One of the more intriguing nuggets about the Africa emigration story is that far from fleeing poverty, migrants out of the continent are likely to be relatively well off, and are rarely from the most destitute families.

Data from the UN’s World Migration Report shows that African emigration rates to the OECD countries are strongly related to GDP per capita, and to household wealth, as these migrants are more likely to have the resources to pay for transport to and resettlement expenses in the OECD countries, and are more likely to have the education and other skills required to find jobs there.

The journey across the Sahara desert and over the perilous Mediterranean costs anything between $1,000 and $3,000, and often, payment is strictly in advance.

Research suggests that most people want to emigrate not because they are poor, but because their reality does not match up with their aspirations and what they expect to get out of life – it’s a relative, rather than absolute, dissatisfaction.

The UCL study comments:

Our findings conform remarkably to the predictions of our simple model: whereas migration probabilities decrease in Latin America (the richest region), they increase with the individual wealth index in Africa and Asia. The association between migration intentions and various dimensions of local amenities (e.g., contentment with public services, security), however, is negative for all regions.

That last point is important. Security and good government makes people less likely to migrate and the lack of it makes them more likely to do so. But cheaper travel and instantly available information about the world outside means that people are able to flee oppressive regimes in greater numbers.

So far this year, according to the Economist, most Mediterranean migrants have come from Gambia, Senegal and Somalia, which illustrates the multi-faceted nature of the migration. Some of it is political, some of it is economic but all helped along by cheaper travel and more widely available technology.

Writing in IRIN last month, Christopher Horwood, of Kenya’s Regional Mixed Migration Secretariat, commented

Modern mobility is also empowered and inspired by unprecedented levels of connectivity – particularly through email and social media – and the virtual proximity of a seemingly obtainable better life. Immeasurable though it may be, we cannot underestimate the force of aspirations, dreams and adventurism of many young people stuck in what they regard as politically restrictive, socioeconomic backwaters.

There is evidence suggesting that migration actually increases as countries become more prosperous and educated. As the lions of the African economy flourish in what is dubbed by some as the African Renaissance, expect more migration not less, as increasing numbers of people have the resources to migrate.

https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com/2015/08/06/africa-is-getting-richer-so-expect-more-migrants/

So, this won't cease until we gain control of our borders or the standards of living in Africa are similar to the living standards in Western and Northern Europe. I know which of the two I'd prefer.

timmyntc

So, this won't cease until we gain control of our borders or the standards of living in Africa are similar to the living standards in Western and Northern Europe. I know which of the two I'd prefer.

When you put it like that of course everyone will claim that we should let it happen, and that our problems will stop when we sort out Africa's problems and they finally have a comparable standard of living to us.
Of course, what will really happen is that our economies in Europe will inevitable crash from the ever increasing strain applied by the surge of people coming from Africa. If we don't take control of the situation and allow it to progress then yes, Africa will be like Europe in that they will both be incredibly harsh places to live, in which either the working classes will be even poorer and heavily taxed than now, or it'll be an end to benefits and the unemployed will be left to fend for themselves.

Means Of Escape

In 2010 Gadaffi requested funding from the EU to curb the wave of migrants looking to Europe as part of the continued Euro / Libyan pact that resulted from the easing of tensions and trade embargo
He called the prospect of mass migration of people as an event that will change Europe forever.
He saw what was ahead

He was given 42 million

Then removed from power

Go figure .

Nodin

DeadHand wrote: »

There we have it.

Apologism for sexual crime.

As if being new to a country gives you licence to happily rape the natives.

Who said it was "rape" and when?

lightspeed

Means Of Escape wrote: »

In 2010 Gadaffi requested funding from the EU to curb the wave of migrants looking to Europe as part of the continued Euro / Libyan pact that resulted from the easing of tensions and trade embargo
He called the prospect of mass migration of people as an event that will change Europe forever.
He saw what was ahead

He was given 42 million

Then removed from power

Go figure .

I just seen a headline on Al jazerra English that Greece just started pouring cement on a new centre to house up to 500,000 migrants but they are getting 1 million every day.

How the f**k will Greece foot that bill?

Also it looks like ISIS are following through on what Gaddafi tried to warn Europe would happen.

"Transcripts of telephone intercepts published in Italy claim to provide evidence that ISIS is threatening to send 500,000 migrants simultaneously out to sea in hundreds of boats in a 'psychological weapon' against Europe if there is military intervention against them in Libya".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958517/The-Mediterranean-sea-chaos-Gaddafi-s-chilling-prophecy-interview-ISIS-threatens-send-500-000-migrants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html

KingBrian2

DeadHand wrote: »

From that well known bastion of right wing ranting Wikipedia:

In the study, immigrants were found to be four times more likely to be investigated for lethal violence and robbery than ethnic Swedes. In addition, immigrants were three times more likely to be investigated for violent assault, and five times more likely to be investigated for sex crimes.

To be fair to them many of those Immigrants came from war ravaged Iraq bringing their sectarian beliefs.

xhoundx

KingBrian2 wrote: »

To be fair to them many of those Immigrants came from war ravaged Iraq bringing their sectarian beliefs.

Is it not the case that the pro side in this invasion are using the same excuse to reason for taking in these migrants? Ie they are coming from war torn environments?

KingBrian2

xhoundx wrote: »

Is it not the case that the pro side in this invasion are using the same excuse to reason for taking in these migrants? Ie they are coming from war torn environments?

All the British papers have stories about Syrians and Afghani's and Somali's and Iraqi's going to live in the UK because of the apparent peacefulness of the UK, the point being made is that those countries are so disastrous that it is better to traverse the Mediterranean sea, dodge customs in various European states, arrange passage to Calais and struggle to get across the Eurotunnel to your final destination. What is not being reported is that the countries their fleeing are in desperate need of International support to combat piracy but that story does not fit the agenda that leaders want to present.

JustTheOne

Just like The famine, it's actually the people with money who get the chance to emigrate and the poor get left behind.

Huge misunderstanding about the whole situation.