Ireland to assist in migrant crisis in the Med.

Spanish Eyes

So Hollande is having a summit with Merkel about EU wide quotas for these people trying to get into Europe.

Marine le Pen must be odds on favourite so for the French Presidency when that vote rolls around soon.

KingBrian2

Means Of Escape wrote: »

The UK have been trying to clamp down on illegal immigration way before this Calais mess reared its ugly head .

Still no ID's not to mention their policies on EU citizens is a disgrace

Means Of Escape

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Still no ID's not to mention their policies on EU citizens is a disgrace

Fianna Fáil tried to being in a National ID card here for all citizens a few years back and it was blown out of the water by the civil liberties brigades etc

Need to get cracking at it again ASAP .

JONJO THE MISER

Was anyone watching the debate on this on UTV news at 10.
Was no debate really, both people talking agreed that Europe and Ireland should be taking more refugees and that where ever they settle they will be a great asset to society, TD Tim Dooley was one of the people talking and the other was some tree hugger type.
This just shows the level of debate that exists in this country on the subject by the media.

KingBrian2

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So Hollande is having a summit with Merkel about EU wide quotas for these people trying to get into Europe.

Marine le Pen must be odds on favourite so for the French Presidency when that vote rolls around soon.

Le Pen reacts to the public mood to solve the migrant problem now. The far right is losing momentum to the UMP who actually have solutions. The sort of wrapping paper ideas the Far right have is basically what we are seeing in Germany the odd violent riot perpetrated by (of all people demonstrators ) quick to attack the vulnerable and excited at the prospect of harming the current coalition's parties electoral performance.

RichardCeann

recedite wrote: »

I think Germany expects to process 800,000 this year, but aren't they trying to offload a proportion of these to other countries under some sort of proposed quota system?

Anyway they have more riots now.

The whole "collective guilt" thing seems to be still surprisingly powerful there. For Germans, either you're with the nazis, or you're with the migrants. And most are scared $hitless of being associated with neo-nazis.

If Germany wants to play super humanitarian to atone for whatever guilt they feel for their past, then that is their prerogative. They can fuck off if they want to include the rest of us in this nonsense. For us to take 'our fair share' and match them, we would be taking in circa 45k per annum.

wakka12

I know lots of people asked this already but it just popped up again and I realised nobodys even made any vague attempt at answering it..what are the supposed benefits of having the migrants in Europe? Like I support saving a limited number of them as I do feel sympathy for those fleeing Syria, and Im fine with Europe taking them, I think its a good thing to save people in need.

But Ive heard people say theyre a great asset to the country? How is that so? What are poor uneducated non english speaking people going to do to make ireland a better place to live in? Because as far as I can see the only ones who benefit from the arrangement are the refugees, Im fine with that to a certain degree but could anyone please enlighten me. What are the benefits?Yes it'll make us good people but apart from that

RichardCeann

Just the odd riot you say?

Milan,Italy.

Hungary.

Stuhl, Germany.

Salou, Spain.

Macedonian-Greek border.

All of the above are from the last few days.

KingBrian2

wakka12 wrote: »

I know lots of people asked this already but it just popped up again and I realised nobodys even made any vague attempt at answering it..what are the supposed benefits of having the migrants in Europe? Like I support saving a limited number of them as I do feel sympathy for those fleeing Syria, and Im fine with Europe taking them, I think its a good thing to save people in need.

But Ive heard people say theyre a great asset to the country? How is that so? What are poor uneducated non english speaking people going to do to make ireland a better place to live in? Because as far as I can see the only ones who benefit from the arrangement are the refugees, Im fine with that to a certain degree but could anyone please enlighten me. What are the benefits?Yes it'll make us good people but apart from that

They offer the chance to meet different cultures and in theory to trade with the rest of the world through the exchange of culture and technology. The perverse event is that we are not helping the countries that they are fleeing. They need the help as much as the migrants.

thedumbone

RichardCeann wrote: »

Just the odd riot you say?

Milan,Italy.

Hungary.

Stuhl, Germany.

Salou, Spain.

Macedonian-Greek border.

All of the above are from the last few days.

what pisses me off is that majority of people who want to assist in migrant crisis ignores those kind of videos.

BlaasForRafa

wakka12 wrote: »

I know lots of people asked this already but it just popped up again and I realised nobodys even made any vague attempt at answering it..what are the supposed benefits of having the migrants in Europe?

You might get a few decent restaurants and takeaways with new cuisine but other than that they have pretty much nothing to offer. If we needed more people in the labour force then Poland and the Baltics could easily meet that demand.

RichardCeann

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

You might get a few decent restaurants and takeaways with new cuisine but other than that they have pretty much nothing to offer. If we needed more people in the labour force then Poland and the Baltics could easily meet that demand.

People also seem to ignore the fact that we have extremely fair work permit options available to non EU citizens who have skills we lack. The critical skills employment permit, for example.

In Sweden, once the job has been advertised to Swedish and EU citizens for five working days and meets the minimum pay scale set out for that profession, then the employer can apply for a work permit on the non EU citizens behalf. Germany affords skilled non EU citizens a jobseekers visa that allows them live and search for work for six months. Once they find work that meets the minimum salary regulations, they can get a more longterm work permit. Denmark has a points based work permit for non EU citizens and entitles them to live in Denmark for 12 months to find work. Once they find work, they transfer over to a more longterm permit. Austria has similar called the red white red card and then there is the EU wide blue card work permit.

That is just a few options available to non EU citizens who wish to come here legally. 'Fortress Europe' we are not. There are an abundance of visas and options available. That they do not qualify for them or don't even bother trying, is their problem, not ours. We should not be rewarding them for skipping the queue and coming here illegally.

JONJO THE MISER

How many of these are arriving here?
I only read 1 article that says dozens of gardai were involved in manning checkpoints targeting illegal immigration close to the border near Dundalk, Co Louth, on July 20 and July 28.
On the first day around 28 people were detained while on the second day around 19 people were detained.
So a average of 24 per day 168 per week entering on 1 road, how many by other roads on the border and wait until all these people entering Europe now hear how soft we are here, we will be inundated by xmas.

Means Of Escape

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Was anyone watching the debate on this on UTV news at 10.
Was no debate really, both people talking agreed that Europe and Ireland should be taking more refugees and that where ever they settle they will be a great asset to society, TD Tim Dooley was one of the people talking and the other was some tree hugger type.
This just shows the level of debate that exists in this country on the subject by the media.[/QUOTE

Mary Harney said the same 8 years ago
"Fantastic" results .

johnty56

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

How many of these are arriving here?
I only read 1 article that says dozens of gardai were involved in manning checkpoints targeting illegal immigration close to the border near Dundalk, Co Louth, on July 20 and July 28.
On the first day around 28 people were detained while on the second day around 19 people were detained.
So a average of 24 per day 168 per week entering on 1 road, how many by other roads on the border and wait until all these people entering Europe now hear how soft we are here, we will be inundated by xmas.

I recently travelled from the Uk to Ireland as a passenger in the back of a car. I had no ticket, nor was I asked for one by anyone. There was a Garda at the port, standing near his car, upon which were arrayed a large number of stamps. When we got to the top of the queue, he stepped close to the drivers window and asked 'Where ye from lads' to which the driver replied only 'Irish'. Neither of the other two of us said anything, and he didnt even look into the back of the car.

We could have been anybody:)

Means Of Escape

Nodin wrote: »

.....................

...a breakout you say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFFHSRLl3mY

Yes. A breakout and more to come .

wakka12

KingBrian2 wrote: »

They offer the chance to meet different cultures and in theory to trade with the rest of the world through the exchange of culture and technology. The perverse event is that we are not helping the countries that they are fleeing. They need the help as much as the migrants.

Yeah I thought so, so no real benefits is what you're saying ... Why can't we get the same deal and import some educated law abiding chinese and japanese/european/south american immigrants? Seems like more of an equal benefits on both ends arrangement than what we have going with the african refugees.

AlekSmart

wakka12 wrote: »

Yeah I thought so, so no real benefits is what you're saying ... Why can't we get the same deal and import some educated law abiding chinese and japanese/european/south american immigrants? Seems like more of an equal benefits on both ends arrangement than what we have going with the african refugees.

It would be very difficult to assess the "Benefit" inherent in the current madcap attempts to help out Italy,Greece and to a degree,Germany in this calamity.

I would have some degree of sympathy for Germany,as it was'nt exactly at the forefront of the "Get Gadaffi" campaign,so enthusiastically embraced by France,Italy and the U.K.

Perhaps if,instead of rushing headlong into a very dead-end,those very EU leaders now flailing about in the Mediterranian,had listened just a bit closer to what Gadaffi was telling them they might have learned a bit more....(I know it's the Daily Mail,but the substance of this article still stands,particularly when referenced against the date of publication)

Was Gadaffi's prediction accurate ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958517/The-Mediterranean-sea-chaos-Gaddafi-s-chilling-prophecy-interview-ISIS-threatens-send-500-000-migrants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html

ISIS had not yet made frightening inroads into Libya when he made this chilling prophecy during his last interview in March 2011.

But the Arab Spring uprising that year sparked a civil war in Libya and opposition forces - backed by NATO - deposed Gaddafi in violent coup just five months after his ominous prediction.

In October 2011, forces loyal to the country's transitional government found the ousted leader hiding in a culvert in Sirte and killed him.

Four years later, Islamic State kidnapped 21 Egyptian Coptic Christians in Sirte - Gaddafi's birthplace - before releasing gruesome footage of their beheading on the shores of the Mediterranean, just 220 miles south of Italy. In it the terrorists warned that they 'will conquer Rome'.

Of equal,or greater interest is the knowledge that Italy and Lybia were already co-operating in the full knowledge of what was being set against them...

A treaty between Gaddafi and the Italian premier provided for joint boat patrols which curtailed the departure of migrant boats from Libya.

But, as the Libyan despot predicted back in 2011, if the Gaddafis were brought down, Islamists would exploit the power vacuum.

Still holding court in a Bedoin tent while holed up in the fortified citadel of Bab Al Azizya, Gaddafi warned: 'If, instead of a stable government that guarantees security, these militias linked to Bin Laden take control, the Africans will move en mass towards Europe.'

He added: 'The Mediterranean will become a sea of chaos.'

In addition....

The European powers were putting their own security at risk by helping the rebels, Gaddafi pointed out.

He told Il Giornale, the Italian newspaper owned by his former friend Silvio Berlusconi he was saddened by the attitude of his friend. They no longer spoke.

'I am shocked at the attitude of my European friends. They have endangered and damaged a series of great security treaties in their own interest.'

Without his harsh, but effective, regime, the entire North African Mahgreb 'would become another Gaza,' he claimed.

We are now left hoping that Gadaffi was wrong...

Ireland however,will be grand,just grand....everybody loves the Irish

wakka12

AlekSmart wrote: »

It would be very difficult to assess the "Benefit" inherent in the current madcap attempts to help out Italy,Greece and to a degree,Germany in this calamity.

I would have some degree of sympathy for Germany,as it was'nt exactly at the forefront of the "Get Gadaffi" campaign,so enthusiastically embraced by France,Italy and the U.K.

Perhaps if,instead of rushing headlong into a very dead-end,those very EU leaders now flailing about in the Mediterranian,had listened just a bit closer to what Gadaffi was telling them they might have learned a bit more....(I know it's the Daily Mail,but the substance of this article still stands,particularly when referenced against the date of publication)

Was Gadaffi's prediction accurate ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958517/The-Mediterranean-sea-chaos-Gaddafi-s-chilling-prophecy-interview-ISIS-threatens-send-500-000-migrants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html



Of equal,or greater interest is the knowledge that Italy and Lybia were already co-operating in the full knowledge of what was being set against them...



In addition....



We are now left hoping that Gadaffi was wrong...

Ireland however,will be grand,just grand....everybody loves the Irish

Thats very spooky.Sounds like a film

thedumbone

AlekSmart wrote: »

It would be very difficult to assess the "Benefit" inherent in the current madcap attempts to help out Italy,Greece and to a degree,Germany in this calamity.

I would have some degree of sympathy for Germany,as it was'nt exactly at the forefront of the "Get Gadaffi" campaign,so enthusiastically embraced by France,Italy and the U.K.

Perhaps if,instead of rushing headlong into a very dead-end,those very EU leaders now flailing about in the Mediterranian,had listened just a bit closer to what Gadaffi was telling them they might have learned a bit more....(I know it's the Daily Mail,but the substance of this article still stands,particularly when referenced against the date of publication)

Was Gadaffi's prediction accurate ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958517/The-Mediterranean-sea-chaos-Gaddafi-s-chilling-prophecy-interview-ISIS-threatens-send-500-000-migrants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html

interesting ... f$#k this world :mad:

RichardCeann

The British government have outlined proposals to jail, confiscate earnings and deport illegal immigrants without appeal. Taxi firms and takeaways will be closed if they are found to be employing illegals. They are cracking down extremely hard on abuse of their immigration system.

Illegal immigrants will face six months in jail if they come to work in the UK and late-night takeaways and taxi firms will be closed if they employ them, ministers will announce.

Ahead of net migration figures on Thursday that are expected to show a record number of foreigners are coming to the UK, the Government will unveil its latest crackdown on illegal foreign workers.

As part of the plans drawn up in the wake of the Calais immigration crisis, the Government will create a new offence of illegal working which will come with a prison sentence of up to six months as well as an unlimited fine.

The authorities will also be able to seize wages as “proceeds of crime”.

It means that instead of being taken to detention centres, illegal migrants will be processed through the courts before being taken to jail.

Ministers believe it will act as a deterrent and prevent thousands of migrants attempting to gain access to the UK from European ports including Calais.

As part of the new measures, off-licences, curry houses, Chinese restaurants and other takeaway firms will face closure if they are found to be employing illegal workers.

The Government will also consider extending these powers to cover minicab firms, the Home Office said.

In the weeks after the general election, David Cameron vowed to make the UK a “less attractive place to come and work”. He announced plans to allow the police to seize wages from foreign workers and said that they would face deportation without appeal if they are in the UK illegally.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11821728/Illegal-immigrants-working-in-UK-face-six-months-in-prison-ministers-announce.html

Even before this, non EU citizens were 'fleeing' here due to the crackdown.

A significant number of them are coming here from the UK, where they already have immigration records.

Unpublished figures show that more than 550 applications were received from Pakistanis in the six-month period between last November and last month. This compares with 55 for the corresponding period in 2013 and 2014. As a result, Pakistanis account for over half of all asylum applications received in the past six months.

Under the so-called Dublin Regulation, which determines the EU State responsible for processing an asylum application, this means they are likely to be sent back to the UK.

But immigration officials say that many arriving here from the UK are attempting to "put down some sort of roots" here so that if they return to the UK they might be sent back to this country rather than deported to Pakistan.

Officials said there was high level concern at the influx from the UK of non-genuine Pakistani asylum seekers and confirmed that these cases were being fast-tracked through the system.

Senior Garda officers from the national bureau of immigration are assisting officials in stepping up preparations to deport the bogus applicants.

Immigration officials believe that the increase is largely being driven by a clampdown by UK authorities on "overstayers", those who want to avoid being deported from the UK.

Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald has directed her officials to take all necessary action, including enhanced co-operation with the UK authorities, to combat what officials describe as flagrant abuse of the common travel area between the two jurisdictions.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/young-pakistani-men-flee-uk-and-flood-into-ireland-31248564.html

The softly softly, 'sure didn't Paddy emigrate', 'coffin ships', 'cead mile failte' approach will need to end and our elected representatives will need to address the flagrant abuses of our own immigration system. With the British clamping down and the Common Travel Area in place, where do you think these lads will end up next?

BlaasForRafa

RichardCeann wrote: »

The British government have outlined proposals to jail, confiscate earnings and deport illegal immigrants without appeal. Taxi firms and takeaways will be closed if they are found to be employing illegals. They are cracking down extremely hard on abuse of their immigration system.

You can count in milliseconds how long it'd take the "equality authority" types to appeal to the courts under the Human Rights act if a prosecution of this type actually happened.

Means Of Escape

Gadaffi portrayed as the loon,the fruitcake,monster and imbecile by the West when in fact he was probably the most cunning,informed and able of all the leaders in the Middle East.

The image of him doubled over among the throng of baying misguided rebels will be viewed in the years to come as the point where the Middle East was sent down a path of absolute perdition.

nokia69

TBF Gadaffi actually was a loon it wasn't just media lies

WakeUp

speedboatchase wrote: »

"We're ready to die."

No you're not. Translation: "We're ready for more free stuff, please."

basically these economic migrants in many instances are now threatening us with their death because they arent getting their way , this warped sense of entitlement and right they think they have to just arrive on our shores to better themselves. as if their circumstance is our fault. the world , our world, it doesnt work like that Im afraid. people in Europe need to get their priorities straight quick time.

But these migrants do not desire refuge in Hungary any more than they desire refuge in Italy, Greece, Macedonia, or Serbia. In fact, they refuse to accept refuge in any of these countries. They want to be registered as refugees in northern Europe, where they (probably correctly) believe that they can build better lives than in the austerity-wracked south.

These migrants are willing to make enormous sacrifices so that their children's children can be born in the world's richest countries. They are, in effect, citizenship shopping -- not just for themselves, but for future generations of their families. They certainly have no intention to return to Afghanistan, Eritrea, or Syria if and when peace is restored. They are on a one-way road to a better future

Liberal intellectuals cringe at the charge that refugees are welfare migrants, but these liberal intellectuals fail to understand the scope and scale of the modern welfare state and what it means for migrants.

welfare means much more than handouts.

Welfare includes free primary and high school education, free or highly subsidized university education, free or highly subsidized healthcare, freedom from severe infectious disease, free roads to drive on, highly subsidized mass transit, and all the other accoutrements of life in the developed world.

Like the rest of us, immigrants rely on state welfare institutions to provide the societal structure that supports modern life.

You can't blame people for wanting to see their children graduate from British universities or their grandchildren born in Swedish hospitals. But it is sheer madness to allow people to use the refugee system for this purpose. It creates massive perverse incentives for migration, not to mention resentment among host populations. Not only is this mad -- it is tragically unsustainable.

The liberal internationalists who advocate extensive refugee search and rescue in the Mediterranean and the free passage of refugees across Europe have in effect created a system that encourages people to threaten that they will commit suicide at sea unless their children and future generations of their families are given European citizenship and the opportunities this provides for upward mobility in the global status hierarchy.

Every successful threat of "admit me or I will drown" encourages thousands of others to play the same dangerous game of chicken. And (thankfully) most of them don't drown. The figures suggest a death rate of less than 0.5 percent. Unfortunately, millions of people are willing to risk a 0.5 percent risk of death to get themselves and their families to ultimate safety and prosperity. The risk of staying in Afghanistan, Eritrea, or Syria may be much higher.

But Mediterranean boat migrants are safe when they land in Italy or Greece. They are not willing to accept safety in Italy or Greece. They demand prosperity in northern Europe. All countries have a responsibility to provide safety. No country has a responsibility to provide prosperity.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/madness-the-european-refugee-crisis-13676?page=2

custard gannet

RichardCeann wrote: »

The British government have outlined proposals.......

Much like the Irish government, the British government like to outline proposals. They previously outlined proposals to strip British citizens of their right to remain in the UK if they joined Isis. They previously outlined proposals to stop the free movement of Romanian and Bulgarians to the UK when they joined the EU. They even toyed with restricting the flow from EU countries already allowed in. Fast forward a few months and the worst a returning Isis fighter faces is a paltry jail sentence, and the UK has more Roma gypsies than it ever had.

It will no doubt prove to be a load of hot air.

AlekSmart

custard gannet wrote: »

Much like the Irish government, the British government like to outline proposals. They previously outlined proposals to strip British citizens of their right to remain in the UK if they joined Isis. They previously outlined proposals to stop the free movement of Romanian and Bulgarians to the UK when they joined the EU. They even toyed with restricting the flow from EU countries already allowed in. Fast forward a few months and the worst a returning Isis fighter faces is a paltry jail sentence, and the UK has more Roma gypsies than it ever had.

It will no doubt prove to be a load of hot air.

Up until this years Mediterranian "crisis",or more accurately,Italy's crisis,I would have agreed with this opinion.

However the scale of this years events (coupled with the very real possibility of it being an integral part of a far broader ISIS terror campaign) make it far more likely that HMG now has little or no alternative to act.

Ultimately it is the U.K's attitude and decisions regarding their immigration and asylum policies which will dictate the Irish response.

Ireland,at the very worst,faces becoming a giant R&R island for hundreds of thousands of refusniks,deportees,relatives and/or assailants keen on entering or re-entering "The Mainland".

Either an Irish Government wakes up to the options required,and plans accordingly,OR we sleepwalk down a hugely dangerous road indeed.

Either way,it is an issue which MUST be debated at the highest level.

RichardCeann

They have introduced stringent financial requirements for non EU citizens with British spouses wishing to settle in the UK. They now deport asylum seekers after two appeals and allow them make further appeals from home. They have gutted the 'language school' industry and clamped down ruthlessly on sham marriages. They have done away with the graduate visa and now students will have to go home upon completion of their studies, will have to find a sponsor and get a Tier 2 visa( which is capped at 21k per annum) if they wish to return and a whole host of other reforms. They can't touch EU migration and there will be a referendum on membership in 2017.

Meanwhile, we are talking about doing away with DP, allowing asylum seekers go to third level with the same rights as Irish citizens, allowing asylum seekers work and access welfare and there is a huge push for an amnesty for the illegals resident.

There is a reason why that so many migrants in the UK are now 'fleeing' here.

_Kaiser_

RichardCeann wrote: »

They have introduced stringent financial requirements for non EU citizens with British spouses wishing to settle in the UK. They now deport asylum seekers after two appeals and allow them make further appeals from home. They have gutted the 'language school' industry and clamped down ruthlessly on sham marriages. They have done away with the graduate visa and now students will have to go home upon completion of their studies, will have to find a sponsor and get a Tier 2 visa( which is capped at 21k per annum) if they wish to return and a whole host of other reforms. They can't touch EU migration and there will be a referendum on membership in 2017.

Meanwhile, we are talking about doing away with DP, allowing asylum seekers go to third level with the same rights as Irish citizens, allowing asylum seekers work and access welfare and there is a huge push for an amnesty for the illegals resident.

There is a reason why that so many migrants in the UK are now 'fleeing' here.

And here's the problem...

We have a Government that is currently more focussed on getting itself re-elected (or at the very least ensuring that the gravy train keeps rolling for the members). EVERYTHING, domestic or foreign, is secondary to that... the issue of what will happen a year or two from now if the current "crisis" continues is not on the agenda.

Not to be forgotten (as I've talked about before) is the Irish NEED to be "liked" and validated by others - particularly our more successful European "friends" as it reassures us that we can play at the level of the big boys... of course in many instances this results in the attitude that an adult might show to a somewhat overeager child (right down to the ruffling of the hair)

There's also the point that given the very poor standard of TD we generally elect, they simply may not realise the implications the standard "wait and see"/reactive approach may have in this instance. By the time they DO start thinking that maybe they should look into it, it'll probably already be too late and we'll get the usual half-assed, completely inadequate "solution" instead!

colourinkjet2

The government here are a disgrace for supporting this madness.

I will not vote for any party that does not come out strongly against mass immigration. In Ireland it means I probably can't vote but I am now a single issue voter.

karma_

colourinkjet2 wrote: »

The government here are a disgrace for supporting this madness.

I will not vote for any party that does not come out strongly against mass immigration. In Ireland it means I probably can't vote but I am now a single issue voter.

What's your alternative? Allow them to drown?

I read the other day that the Irish navy has now saved something like 4000 migrants (possibly more) and that is an amazing achievement.... and then there's the armchair right-wingnuts on boards spouting post after post of sheer xenophobic hate. Jesus, we fúcked up somewhere.

_Kaiser_

karma_ wrote: »

What's your alternative? Allow them to drown?

I read the other day that the Irish navy has now saved something like 4000 migrants (possibly more) and that is an amazing achievement.... and then there's the armchair right-wingnuts on boards spouting post after post of sheer xenophobic hate. Jesus, we fúcked up somewhere.

It really is like Groundhog Day every day in this thread...

No-one has said "so what? let them drown!" but that doesn't mean that these migrants should be encouraged or validated by handing them out citizenship and welfare entitlements when they get off the boat either!

Rescue them, and then drop them off right where they came from. Seize and scuttle the boats they came on to prevent it being reused/dissuade others from taking the foolish and dangerous trip themselves.

The predicable fallback on accusations of xenophobia/racism/whatever-other-nonsense-PC-term-you-want-to-insert-here neither counters the points raised nor offers any alternative solution.

timmyntc

karma_ wrote: »

What's your alternative? Allow them to drown?

I read the other day that the Irish navy has now saved something like 4000 migrants (possibly more) and that is an amazing achievement.... and then there's the armchair right-wingnuts on boards spouting post after post of sheer xenophobic hate. Jesus, we fúcked up somewhere.

Saving them is fine, carting them off to europe is not.
People like you love to claim to be for migrants' rights and think we should have open borders so all can share in the wealth, but whenever the benefits inevitably run out due to the excessive numbers of unemployed migrants landing on our shores then I'm sure it'll be a different story.

it's absolute madness to bring these people into europe when they have no right to come here. if they need asylum they can claim asylum, if they want to come to europe to work they can apply through the traditional channels for working visas which are generously handed out by member states. but instead they wish to forcibly enter our borders, and then in violation of the dublin agreement, they force their way to northern europe - where the best benefits are.

They have no respect for european law so it's unlikely they'll have much respect for the european way of life.

karma_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It really is like Groundhog Day every day in this thread...

No-one has said "so what? let them drown!" but that doesn't mean that these migrants should be encouraged or validated by handing them out citizenship and welfare entitlements when they get off the boat either!

Rescue them, and then drop them off right where they came from. Seize and scuttle the boats they came on to prevent it being reused/dissuade others from taking the foolish and dangerous trip themselves.

The predicable fallback on accusations of xenophobia/racism/whatever-other-nonsense-PC-term-you-want-to-insert-here neither counters the points raised nor offers any alternative solution.

Encourage them? What the fúck are you on about? These are people fleeing from abject poverty, some from war zones. How fúcking empathic of you. Do you have a shred of humanity in you?

Worst of all is that if you were stuck in a dirt poor country or escaping from a war you would do EXACTLY the same thing for your family.

wakka12

karma_ wrote: »

What's your alternative? Allow them to drown?

I read the other day that the Irish navy has now saved something like 4000 migrants (possibly more) and that is an amazing achievement.... and then there's the armchair right-wingnuts on boards spouting post after post of sheer xenophobic hate. Jesus, we fúcked up somewhere.

As has been said countless times, the migrants should be rescued so they don't harm themselves. Should be given medical assistance and food and brought back to the destination they departed from. They have no right to live in Europe, they can apply for a VISA to enter legally like everybody else on the planet, forcibly making your way here doesn't grant you european passports as much as some people seem to want it to.

karma_

wakka12 wrote: »

As has been said countless times, the migrants should be rescued so they don't harm themselves. Should be given medical assistance and food and brought back to the destination they departed from. They have no right to live in Europe, they can apply for a VISA to enter legally like everybody else on the planet, forcibly making your way here doesn't grant you european passports as much as some people seem to want it to.

So Syrians presumably should be immediately transported to Syria again?

nokia69

karma_ wrote: »

Encourage them? What the fúck are you on about? These are people fleeing from abject poverty, some from war zones. How fúcking empathic of you. Do you have a shred of humanity in you?

the fact that European Navies are picking them up a few miles off the coast of Libya is most certainly encouraging more people to make the journey

karma_ wrote: »

Worst of all is that if you were stuck in a dirt poor country or escaping from a war you would do EXACTLY the same thing for your family.

most are not escaping any war they want to move to Europe for a better life, I don't blame them for wanting a better life but in the end we can't take all of these people in, many of them have paid thousands to reach Europe they are not as poverty stricken as the media like to claim

nokia69

karma_ wrote: »

So Syrians presumably should be immediately transported to Syria again?

or back to Turkey which in most cases is the first safe country they entered

RichardCeann

karma_ wrote: »

Encourage them? What the fúck are you on about? These are people fleeing from abject poverty, some from war zones. How fúcking empathic of you. Do you have a shred of humanity in you?

Worst of all is that if you were stuck in a dirt poor country or escaping from a war you would do EXACTLY the same thing for your family.

Being poor is not grounds for asylum(yet). Some 2.8 billion people live on less than $2 a day. Their lifes would be infinitely better in one of the EU member states. How many should we take in? Do you think the EU has an infinite capacity to absorb immigrants from the third world? If not, when is the cutoff point?

wakka12

karma_ wrote: »

So Syrians presumably should be immediately transported to Syria again?

To the destination they departed from, a port in North Africa. Syrians travelled through thousands of square miles of perfectly safe land to settle in on their journey to north africa. Is Europe the only safe place in the world? Not even all of Europe actually, they don't seem to like staying in Greece or Italy, are germany england and sweden the only safe places in the world?:rolleyes:

_Kaiser_

karma_ wrote: »

Encourage them? What the fúck are you on about? These are people fleeing from abject poverty, some from war zones. How fúcking empathic of you. Do you have a shred of humanity in you?

Worst of all is that if you were stuck in a dirt poor country or escaping from a war you would do EXACTLY the same thing for your family.

Oh please.. enough of the dramatics already!

Answer me these questions then...

- This is a small island nation that is just starting to come out of an extremely damaging recession. We already have significant issues with poverty and a wealth divide, as well as an escalating homelessness issue, and a situation where about 50% of the population receives some sort of welfare payment.... where exactly do you think the money is going to come from to feed, house and educate/integrate boatloads of immigrants with little to no English, no skills that we need, and significant cultural/religious differences?

- Do you deny the reports (and videos) that show these people may not in fact be fleeing terror, but trying to "pick and choose" where they end up WITHOUT having any legal or natural right to do so?

- Do you accept that there are numerous ways for non-EU residents to legitimately enter and work/live in member states? Do you accept that there is nothing stopping these people from applying through those channels?

- Do you really think we should throw open the borders just to make you (and others of the same mindset) somehow feel better about themselves.. regardless of the consequences to this State and its people?

Angry bird

Have we the resources currently to take in large numbers? When one looks at issues like spiralling rent, emergency accommodation stretched such that hotels an B and B's raking it in and homelessness on the increase, a bit more thought than sure we'll take a few hundred and work out how to deal with them later, needs to be done. Sutherland and Co no doubt will be delighted to put up some of them in their own houses.

johnty56

karma_ wrote: »

Encourage them? What the fúck are you on about? These are people fleeing from abject poverty, some from war zones. How fúcking empathic of you. Do you have a shred of humanity in you?

Worst of all is that if you were stuck in a dirt poor country or escaping from a war you would do EXACTLY the same thing for your family.

Escaping from poverty by paying thousands to people traffickers. These are people who are relatively well off. the genuinely poor could not afford to make the journey.

They are escaping the way of life in their countries. They want what you have. Are you willing to give it to them? How empathetic would you be if the choice was for your elderly relative to receive hospital treatment or for a 'newcomer' who had never paid a penny into the system? At the current rate of migration, it will not be very long before it boils down to such stark choices in some European countries.

Bongalongherb

I can't believe how backward this government is, they are now today thinking of doubling the amount of migrants to Ireland saying Ireland can easily manage this. How can we manage all these migrants when we cannot manage our own housing for citizens ? Are our own citizens supposed to live indefinitely in hotels, because the more migrants we take in the less chance Irish citizens will be housed while these migrants will be fast-tracked to housing.

Everything is backward in this country. Well the British government are doing the right thing with their new laws regarding illegal immigrants. This is the approach we should be implementing ourselves the do-gooders of the EU while leaving our own to suffer a longer plight of homelessness. This cannot keep up, lock the borders down before we regret it.

AlekSmart

johnty56 wrote: »

Escaping from poverty by paying thousands to people traffickers. These are people who are relatively well off. the genuinely poor could not afford to make the journey.

They are escaping the way of life in their countries. They want what you have. Are you willing to give it to them? How empathetic would you be if the choice was for your elderly relative to receive hospital treatment or for a 'newcomer' who had never paid a penny into the system? At the current rate of migration, it will not be very long before it boils down to such stark choices in some European countries.

It is not a given,that the entirety of these migrant groups (and there are distinct groupings within the mass) do "want what we have".

It can be now quite reasonably supposed that significant numbers see our decadent Western Christianized world as the absolute antitheses of all that they hold dear.

The recent refusal of Red Cross food parcels indicates that many of these people do not see anything desireable about our beliefs or practices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8xkYZNsKUY

No parcels,no food,no crucifixes....let us through first.

For some of these people at least,it is not going to be a question of whether "We" want to give them access to our lifestyles,customs and practices,but of when They decide to take the aspects They desire for themselves.

This choice is for Us to make...we either play along with a totally unrealistic EU/UN policy,manipulted adroitly by the likes of Peter Sutherland OR we align ourselves with the saner,less malleable Eastern European accession States and embrace a policy of extremely cautious progress.

JustTheOne

This world is getting more messed up each day. Europe is going to become a cesspit.

AlekSmart

Bongalongherb wrote: »

I can't believe how backward this government is, they are now today thinking of doubling the amount of migrants to Ireland saying Ireland can easily manage this. How can we manage all these migrants when we cannot manage our own housing for citizens ? Are our own citizens supposed to live indefinitely in hotels, because the more migrants we take in the less chance Irish citizens will be housed while these migrants will be fast-tracked to housing.

Everything is backward in this country. Well the British government are doing the right thing with their new laws regarding illegal immigrants. This is the approach we should be implementing ourselves the do-gooders of the EU while leaving our own to suffer a longer plight of homelessness. This cannot keep up, lock the borders down before we regret it.

Locking the Borders down is no longer an option for us in Ireland,if indeed it ever was.

Do remember that at one time the Irish "Land Frontier" was one of the Western Worlds most patrolled,monitored and crossed frontiers anywhere.

Many here will remember the term "unapproved road" with a wry smile as it was an integral part of both personal and commercial cross-border traffic for decades.

Strange as it may appear,but this latest U.K. Conservative Government policy statement,is something which ALL sides of the Irish political divide (North & South) may find worthy of supporting.

The Republic of Ireland is now in a very exposed position indeed,should Teresa May's proposals be implemented.

Some form of Jointly agreed common-purpose Border Defence may well be a requirement if this comes down to the wire.

As we now see on an increasing basis,many of these people are not about to take NO for an answer.

RichardCeann

Another planned refugee centre just outside Berlin was burned to the ground. These idiots should not attack or take out their frustrations on the migrants. They should blame those who have completely opened the gate.

German article here: http://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article205600389/Fluechtlingsheim-in-Nauen-brennt-ab-Brandstiftung-vermutet.html

Yurt2

The table in the link shows that the top three asylum seeking nationalities in Ireland by origin are Pakistani, Nigerian and Albanian in that order.

All crudholes in their own particular ways but can it be said they are warzones with people starving?

Interestingly the largest group of asylum seekers in Europe by far are Kosovars with significant amounts of Ukrainians.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/europe-migrant-crisis-where-are-asylum-seekers-coming-from-and-where-are-they-going-1.2299773

Nodin

Yurt! wrote: »

The table in the link shows that the top three asylum seeking nationalities in Ireland by origin are Pakistani, Nigerian and Albanian in that order.

All crudholes in their own particular ways but can it be said they are warzones with people starving?

Interestingly the largest group of asylum seekers in Europe by far are Kosovars with significant amounts of Ukrainians.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/europe-migrant-crisis-where-are-asylum-seekers-coming-from-and-where-are-they-going-1.2299773

There's one or two minority sects in Pakistan that would certainly have a strong case. Nigerians on less solid ground but there can be a case made for some. Can't think of any good grounds for Albania at all though.