Ireland to assist in migrant crisis in the Med.

end of the road

MathDebater wrote: »

No, they are stuck in the appeals process for years. There are currently 800 asylum seekers fighting their deportaion orders in the High Court. Bit rich to be complaining about being stuck in the process for years when you appeal every decision that you receive.

and there are some waiting years for a decisian in the first place

Nodin

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Absolutely. But these people do not have a right to illegally enter the EU and live here, then having the Germans say "well you're here now as a result of our failed policies, so we're sending you to Ireland".

We spend €650 million on Foreign Aid. If we want to help them, we should increase the Foreign Aid budget, not sit with our thumbs up our asses, patting ourselves on the back and saying "Sure, you broke the law but we'll reward you anyway with welfare, housing, a car. Oh, and you don't have to work. Ever. You don't even need to learn English".

I think the elastic has broken on the mask, oul flower.

IrishTrajan

Nodin wrote: »

I think you'll find there's rather more to the EU than "free movement of labour".

And how much of that has to do with settling illegal migrants? The Dublin Convention is already in place.

IrishTrajan

Nodin wrote: »

I think the elastic has broken on the mask, oul flower.

Maybe it's time to stop smelling the roses and join the real world, my dear.

Del.Monte

murpho999 wrote: »

Funny how many here who claim to be Christian and Ireland is a Catholic country and then just complain about money when a small group of desperate people are being offered help.

People from Syria are not economic migrants they are people who have lost everything due to war and are in an awful state.

I was in Istanbul recently and there are plenty of Syrian families sleeping on the streets with young children and it was truly one of the saddest sights I've ever seen.

I would like it if Ireland can help out in way it can as these people are just unlucky as to where they were born whilst we are the opposite.

According to the UN http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php there are 3,977,211 Syrian refugees How many would you like Ireland to take - and Bray specifically?

blatantrereg

Huge legal fees for repeated appeals are absurd. In this case the onus of proof is on the asylum seeker. Simple process: Prove membership of persecuted group in specified country. Should be fairly black and white. Overly long waits for decisions and appeals could cause ambiguity since an applicant might realistically practice faking membership of that group. No need for expensive teams of lawyers: Here is a list of groups being persecuted; Is applicant a member of one of them? Simple.

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

and there are some waiting years for a decisian in the first place

No there not

Nodin

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Maybe it's time to stop smelling the roses and join the real world, my dear.

The real world?

"Sure, you broke the law but we'll reward you anyway with welfare, housing, a car. Oh, and you don't have to work. Ever. You don't even need to learn English".

That's the real world, is it?

Irishtrajan wrote:

And how much of that has to do with settling illegal migrants? The Dublin
Convention is already in place.

It's an international crisis. Rather than having one or two member states carry the burden, its going to be spread. Joint policy and all that.

IrishTrajan

Nodin wrote: »

The real world?

"Sure, you broke the law but we'll reward you anyway with welfare, housing, a car. Oh, and you don't have to work. Ever. You don't even need to learn English".

So you're saying Asylum seekers don't receive welfare or social housing?

Nodin wrote: »

It's an international crisis. Rather than having one or two member states carry the burden, its going to be spread. Joint policy and all that.

Carrying a burden they brought on with failed policies. Sweden has had open door immigration for years (much to the chagrin of the SD and similar groups). These migrants are illegal. Rather than rewarding them by sending them to other Member States, why not deport them like is supposed to be done?

You break the law by illegally migrating, ignoring asylum denials by moving to other Member States? Sure, annoy the Germans enough and they'll ignore the illegalities of such an action and send you to live in other countries. Oh, those countries voice concerns and they have an opt-out ability? Gee, I guess Brussels will just have to threaten to rewrite the Dublin Convention and force them to take you.

There comes a time when left-wing fantasies have to be put to bed, Noddy.

end of the road

Gatling wrote: »

No there not

yes there are

MathDebater

end of the road wrote: »

and there are some waiting years for a decisian in the first place

No, no there are not. Unless you can prove evidence to the contrary.....

end of the road

MathDebater wrote: »

No, no there are not. Unless you can prove evidence to the contrary.....

yes, yes there are and thats the end of it

Nodin

IrishTrajan wrote: »

So you're saying Asylum seekers don't receive welfare or social housing? .

19 Euro a week, limbo for years and 4 to a hotel room......jaysus that's worth riskin your life for.

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Carrying a burden...........to bed, Noddy.

Yep. Fuck Italy, Greece and wherever they land. It's the Swedes and Germans they should blame, or something.

JONJO THE MISER

engineerbrah wrote: »

This is great news. Ireland needs more diversity, it is still too white.

It is for the P.C crowd.

Hans Bricks

end of the road wrote: »

yes, yes there are and thats the end of it

How do you get away with this **** ? "Duh ... no" :rolleyes:

Did you miss the exception he put to you or do you need it spelled out in big bright, flashing effin' lights. Let's try again shall we ?

MathDebater wrote: »

Unless you can prove evidence to the contrary.....

IrishTrajan

Nodin wrote: »

19 Euro a week, limbo for years and 4 to a hotel room......jaysus that's worth riskin your life for.

€19 a week is more than I have the end of the week quite often.

Tell you what, if you solve the housing problem, the deficit, the cluster**** that is the HSE, the lack of funding for mental health and State services, the homeless problem and our greying population, and I'll be all fúcking ears to taking in a couple thousand more migrants.

Unless of course this is just a talking point for you to feel good about yourself.

Nodin wrote: »

Yep. Fuck Italy, Greece and wherever they land. It's the Swedes and Germans they should blame, or something.

It's simple. We take them from where they landed and bring them back to where they're from. Oh, let's not do that, instead lets reward illegal migrants and send a message that it's open season to the rest.

What could possibly go fúcking wrong.

end of the road

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

It is for the P.C crowd.

you mean for the good caring people of ireland who realize how good they have it and how lucky they are compared to others? and who don't have to use racist terms such as "pc" in their little rants.

bjork

They get €19/week >>We used to have to give mosney money to stay there

KingBrian2

This situation in the Mediterranean is generating great anxiety and uncertainty for us all but just imagine what it is like in Greece and Italy experiencing the full effects. Such tragedies as of ships beaching off the coasts of these wealthy islands. Malta is swamped by these people. Beyond them to the conflict areas pushing all these migrants out into the sea.

These countries on the front line are taking all the flak. They need our support not criticism or irrationality in dealing with this very complicated crisis. Just like with the Syrian Civil War appropriate actions must be taken regardless of hostility that it creates.

IrishTrajan

end of the road wrote: »

you mean for the good caring people of ireland who realize how good they have it and how lucky they are compared to others? and who don't have to use racist terms such as "pc" in their little rants.

There was no luck involved. It was successive generations of Irish treated as little more than filth, eventually utilizing the markets (deregulation and inviting US MNCs) that brought about increased wealth. You think it's coincidence that we have 12.5% Corporation Tax and ran the Double Irish for a couple decades?

Yes, we should help these people, but not by importing them and ignoring the root cause.

We should:

- Supply essential goods through the Foreign Aid budget
- Set up Semi-State or State-owned companies to invest in those countries' infrastructure
- Provide cheap loans for industrialization of their economies

This will provide employment, it will provide stronger relations between us and the people we're funding, it will provide for a stable country from which we can use to stabilize regions.

Can you explain to me how thousands of migrants crossing every week is ever going to benefit us, or their country? It won't. You're ignoring the root problem, ignoring the driving factor behind them which is instability (economic or otherwise).

MorpheusKnight

IrishTrajan wrote: »

There was no luck involved. It was successive generations of Irish treated as little more than filth, eventually utilizing the markets (deregulation and inviting US MNCs) that brought about increased wealth. You think it's coincidence that we have 12.5% Corporation Tax and ran the Double Irish for a couple decades?

Yes, we should help these people, but not by importing them and ignoring the root cause.

We should:

- Supply essential goods through the Foreign Aid budget
- Set up Semi-State or State-owned companies to invest in those countries' infrastructure
- Provide cheap loans for industrialization of their economies

This will provide employment, it will provide stronger relations between us and the people we're funding, it will provide for a stable country from which we can use to stabilize regions.

Can you explain to me how thousands of migrants crossing every week is ever going to benefit us, or their country? It won't. You're ignoring the root problem, ignoring the driving factor behind them which is instability (economic or otherwise).

How do we police that money?

The Saudi's can afford to take care of these people. And the Bahraini's.

Did you check Ireland's balance account. We are overdrawn.

I hear my grandchildren are going to be paying for the bankers.

And now we are faced with even more costs.

end of the road

IrishTrajan wrote: »

There was no luck involved. It was successive generations of Irish treated as little more than filth, eventually utilizing the markets (deregulation and inviting US MNCs) that brought about increased wealth. You think it's coincidence that we have 12.5% Corporation Tax and ran the Double Irish for a couple decades?

Yes, we should help these people, but not by importing them and ignoring the root cause.

We should:

- Supply essential goods through the Foreign Aid budget
- Set up Semi-State or State-owned companies to invest in those countries' infrastructure
- Provide cheap loans for industrialization of their economies

This will provide employment, it will provide stronger relations between us and the people we're funding, it will provide for a stable country from which we can use to stabilize regions.

Can you explain to me how thousands of migrants crossing every week is ever going to benefit us, or their country? It won't. You're ignoring the root problem, ignoring the driving factor behind them which is instability (economic or otherwise).

i'm not ignoring anything

IrishTrajan

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

How do we police that money?

The Saudi's can afford to take care of these people. And the Bahraini's.

Did you check Ireland's balance account. We are overdrawn.

I hear my grandchildren are going to be paying for the bankers.

And now we are faced with even more costs.

The Jordanians however are struggling. The Egyptian's economy is floundering. The Libyans, too. The costs are somewhat complex, but we could sell some of our bonds and buy some of theirs at a slightly higher return rate (covering our expenses, providing them with cheaper loans than what they have now).

I'm not saying we should be pouring billions into their economies, but even €50 million investments can provide for a starting point.

IrishTrajan

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not ignoring anything

Yes you are. You are ignoring the root cause of these migrations. "They're coming, everyone should shut up, welcome them in and then do nothing else".

MorpheusKnight

IrishTrajan wrote: »

The Jordanians however are struggling. The Egyptian's economy is floundering. The Libyans, too. The costs are somewhat complex, but we could sell some of our bonds and buy some of theirs at a slightly higher return rate (covering our expenses, providing them with cheaper loans than what they have now).

I'm not saying we should be pouring billions into their economies, but even €50 million investments can provide for a starting point.

Ireland is overdrawn and there are parts of the ME awash with money. There are something like 57 muslim states. Could they not go there?

I am only interested in offering help to the Christians, Copts and Bah'ai - people being driven out of the ME and who are more than economic refugees.

MathDebater

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not ignoring anything

Except numerous requests for you to cite sources to back up your claims and assertions.

IrishTrajan

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

Ireland is overdrawn and there are parts of the ME awash with money. There are something like 57 muslim states. Could they not go there?

I am only interested in offering help to the Christians, Copts and Bah'ai - people being driven out of the ME and who are more than economic refugees.

If you're offering asylum, sure. If you're trying to end this tide, only economic stability will help ease fundamentalism which is the driving force behind these migrations.

MorpheusKnight

IrishTrajan wrote: »

If you're offering asylum, sure. If you're trying to end this tide, only economic stability will help ease fundamentalism which is the driving force behind these migrations.

Why, why, has it got anything to do with us, or the EU?

IrishTrajan

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

Why, why, has it got anything to do with us, or the EU?

Stability and economic prosperity.

MorpheusKnight

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Stability and economic prosperity.

Yeh, I know what you are suggesting but we are talking about the ME and Africa.

Why do you think they are so poor? We've been sending buckets of money for decades.

Perhaps you could lean on the leaders to distribute our money beyond their own bank accounts.

We take economic refugees in - it costs us money.

We send the money to the countries, we end up with economic refugees anyway.

Sorry, it is just not our problem.

We're struggling here. We don't need the rest of the world's headaches.

stehyl15

These people make the choice they either die at war or they die at sea if they drown well thats just though

MathDebater

We have been here before. Politicians and those who support mass immigration told us that if we voted yes to Nice, only a small number of accession state nationals would come here. Hundreds of thousands did. Then they told us that they would go home if the work dried. The work did dry up and a large splice ended up on welfare. They said that they paid their stamps and were 'entitled'. Now we have 63k EU nationals on JA. A non means tested, non contributory welfare payment. In ten years it went from them not coming, to a huge number on welfare. Feck it, we were sold a pup there but on we go.

A few hundred per 20k, doesn't sound like a lot. But considering that over 170k have made it to Italy so far this year and that the Italian Ministry of Immigration stated tgat there are currently up to a million people waiting to make the crossing from Libya, that number could rapidly increase. We are definitely being sold down the swanny here and as we have opt outs, we should use. To hell with 'European solidarity'. Only Ireland, Sweden and the UK opened their borders to accession state nationals in 2004. The three of us carried that burden. The rest of the EU 15 implemented transitional restrictions that didn't end until May 2011.

"It is a disgraceful xenophobic myth that there will be a threat of a flood of migrant workers coming to Ireland. A wilful effort has been made by the National Platform and the No to Nice Campaign organisation to raise the spectre of a wave of immigrants coming to our shores. This is the worst and most unworthy objection I have heard to the Nice treaty; it is most "un-Irish" and speaks volumes about the level at which some are willing to conduct political debate. It is a shameful and distasteful piece of propaganda.

Xenophobic fears have been raised before. When Ireland was joining the EEC in 1973, the same National Platform warned of foreign skilled workers taking Irish jobs. False fears of mass movements of people at the time of previous enlargements were also raised, but, as we know from the Spanish and Portuguese enlargement, these fears did not materialise. There is no credible reason to believe enlargement will be accompanied by large movements of people. All the evidence points in the opposite direction".

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Mr. Roche); 12th September 2002

There is no reason to believe... that large numbers of workers will wish to come" 
[Minister for Europe Dick Roche, I.T. Letters, 12/7/2002].

"Ireland will be in precisely the same position as all other member states on the question of free movement following any enlargement of the Community". 
[Dick Roche, as reported in the Irish Times, September 2002].

"I estimate that fewer than 2,000 will choose our distant shores each year". 
[P. De Rossa, I. T. Letters, 20/8/2002].

"There is no evidence there would be a problem with free movement of workers on accession".. 
(Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, Dail Eireann, 10/9/2002]

"Efforts have been made to foment fears that migrants from the new member states could flock to Ireland. This is not only unpleasant but plainly wrong." 
[Brian Cowen, Sunday Business Post, 7/7/2000].

"Ireland is already benefiting from the skills and energy of workers from the applicant states, about 7,000 of whom received work permits last year. There is no basis whatever for expecting a huge upsurge in these numbers." 
[Brian Cowen, Sunday Business Post, 7/7/2000].

"It is the view of the Irish Government and a number of other governments that this idea that there is going to be a huge influx of immigrants is just not supported. The evidence is just not there for it. They are not going to flood to the west. The same rules are going to apply in all 15 states. There is no evidence to suggest that the people of the Czech Republic or Poland are less anxious to stay in their home as we are. 
[Dick Roche, transcript of interview with The Irish Catholic, 19/9/2002].

MathDebater

Almost 3,600 migrants have reportedly been rescued from overcrowded boats sailing from Africa to Europe over the past 48 hours, with sea conditions seen as perfect for attempting the crossing.

While more than 600 migrants were brought ashore at the port of Catania in Sicily on Thursday, rescuers picked another 2,500 from boats off the coast of Libya, Italy's coastguard said.

Most of those who arrived in Catania had been picked up by the British warship HMS Bulwark and were Somali and Nigerian, Catania port officials said.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/italy-migrants-rescued-boats-catania-150514191150117.html

At this rate, we will meet the couple hundred per 20k quota every eleven days.

darkpagandeath

Why can't rich countries in the area take them ?

visual

end of the road wrote: »

you mean for the good caring people of ireland who realize how good they have it and how lucky they are compared to others? and who don't have to use racist terms such as "pc" in their little rants.

PC isn't racist in fact it's the opposite
if anything it is curtailing free speech distorting preseptions and forced on a majority to accept some idiots biased view of the world.

If you are irish have irish grandparents then you and your family made sacrifice after sacrifice to help this Irish country become what it is, despite it been ruled by foreign powers and more recently by greedy croupt self serving governments.

PC correct 90 years ago was to hate the English
PC correct now is to embrace Europe including England
PC is used by minority groups the world over to control free speech because the truth or will of the majority don't matter or need to be controlled.

I don't give a hoot about being PC and I call out a obvious nearly every Africa here is from one country and worst than that one city within that country yet all asylum seekers that had to travel through a minimum of 1 European country before arriving here.
does stating this fact make me racist ?

Is it not odd we pay child support to kids who never lived here.

When there was no flying because of volcanic ash 1000s couldn't fly back to collect their payments.

And here is the rub I know of doctors and other professional people who want to come here yet can't and their all races and colours.

Mesrine65

MathDebater

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why can't rich countries in the area take them ?

Jordan and Turkey have taken in millions. The oil rich arabs don't want to know. So the rest seems to be left to us.

MorpheusKnight

MathDebater wrote: »

Jordan and Turkey have taken in millions. The oil rich arabs don't want to know. So the rest seems to be left to us.

Please tell them to stop getting into the boats so.

Currently there are 800 Rohingya of Bangladeshi descent floating in a boat fleeing Burma.

Why come to Europe? Go to Bangladesh.

BTW - Malaysia, Thailand, and Indonesia told them FO.

Why can't we do the same?

meepins

MorpheusKnight wrote: »

Why can't we do the same?

because goy, the white race is evil and must be destroyed
[SNIP: Don't post racist rubbish on the forum.]

MathDebater

Why can't we do the same?

No political will to do so.

Here's an Eurobarometer poll from August 2014. The question asked was;

QA11.2 Please tell me whether each of the following statements evokes a positive or negative feeling for you. Immigration of people from outside the EU

Only a majority in one country responded favourably. No prices for guessing which one.

Here's the results - http://i.imgur.com/UaNAKUSl.jpg

Source - Page 61 http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/eb/eb82/eb82_anx_en.pdf

The vast majority of Europeans do not support this, yet it's being pushed on us anyway.

blatantrereg

Pandering to fake asylum seekers is very damaging to genuine refugees I think. Results in very bad feeling toward genuine victims.

MorpheusKnight

meepins wrote: »

because goy, the white race is evil and must be destroyed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q90kmUbEv7c

Oy vey.

Listen goy, the whites are not the only deluded supremacist race on the planet.

MorpheusKnight

MathDebater wrote: »

No political will to do so.

Here's an Eurobarometer poll from August 2014. The question asked was;



Only a majority in one country responded favourably. No prices for guessing which one.

Here's the results - http://i.imgur.com/UaNAKUSl.jpg

Source - Page 61 http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/eb/eb82/eb82_anx_en.pdf

The vast majority of Europeans do not support this, yet it's being pushed on us anyway.

I have no problems if the Swedes want to take the entire lot - as long as they stay in Sweden.

However, there are now parts of Sweden where even Swedes won't go.

Could you imagine Tower Hamlets in the middle of Mayo?

LOL !

Actually, let me take that LOL back.

Alexis Sanchez

The Swedes are coming around. They're starting to see the consequences of taking in refugees from Afghanistan and Iraq.

Ireland badly need a right wing party like the Swedish Democrats and UKIP, there is definitely demand for it as we know that Ireland will become like Britain in the next few decades.

MorpheusKnight

Alexis Sanchez wrote: »

The Swedes are coming around. They're starting to see the consequences of taking in refugees from Afghanistan and Iraq.

Ireland badly need a right wing party like the Swedish Democrats and UKIP, there is definitely demand for it as we know that Ireland will become like Britain in the next few decades.

We don't need a right wing party.

We need the words of Nancy Reagan

'Just Say No'.
(ok, ok - she was talking about other stuff)

Grayson

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Absolutely. But these people do not have a right to illegally enter the EU and live here, then having the Germans say "well you're here now as a result of our failed policies, so we're sending you to Ireland".

We spend €650 million on Foreign Aid. If we want to help them, we should increase the Foreign Aid budget, not sit with our thumbs up our asses, patting ourselves on the back and saying "Sure, you broke the law but we'll reward you anyway with welfare, housing, a car. Oh, and you don't have to work. Ever. You don't even need to learn English".

So you're ok with spending money to help a syrian refugee that's in Turkey but not on spending money to help a syrian refugee in Ireland.

Also, the first part of you argument makes absolutely no sense. Yes, they have no right to enter ireland illegally. But if we change the law to allow them to enter than they will not be entering illegally.

You do realise you whole argument rests on "I don't want them here"

Grandpa Hassan

Grayson wrote: »

You do realise you whole argument rests on "I don't want them here"

Er....yes of course it does.

Don't understand people wanting to open our doors and wave in the world. Because if you do you'll not only get refugees you'll get everyone who just fancies it. How many do you want to take!?

We have to keep pushing back. And with the opt out we can

xhoundx

Grayson wrote: »

You do realise you whole argument rests on "I don't want them here"

Whats wrong with not wanting them here? We can't afford them, we have no jobs for them.

Let's hear your argument for why you do want them here.

bjork

xhoundx wrote: »

Whats wrong with not wanting them here? We can't afford them, we have no jobs for them.

Let's hear your argument for why you do want them here.

Cons
No Jobs
No schools
No health service (just after reading we'll be outsourcing our patients abroad)
No housing
No money.............

Pros
?

Grandpa Hassan

bjork wrote: »

Cons
No Jobs
No schools
No health service (just after reading we'll be outsourcing our patients abroad)
No housing
No money.............

Pros
?

Plus, as we have seen, they do not integrate into society