Out of the frying pan, into the .... fish pond

Firedance

career move wrote: »

I was paired up with one of the black belts for the sparring drills and she hits really hard so if you don't have your abs tensed, it hurts :cool:

there are lots of reasons to love this log

best of luck on Sunday!

Neady83

Good luck tomorrow K, hope ye bring home some silverware

p.s. Nice training going on over here. Question for you, do you find it hard to do a hard run session and still keep the volume high on the other stuff?

career move

Neady83 wrote: »

Good luck tomorrow K, hope ye bring home some silverware

p.s. Nice training going on over here. Question for you, do you find it hard to do a hard run session and still keep the volume high on the other stuff?

Thanks we'll be doing our best. The coach has his eye on the cup

I'm still learning about how much my body can cope with and in general I'd be well able for it from a fatigue point of view but how would it affect the rest of the weeks training? Especially with multisport, it's a question of balancing training with adequate recovery and its taken me two years to accept that I need days off from the training! I knew I'd be taking Friday and Saturday off because of the race so I thought it would be OK if I did a lot on Wednesday. Because of the hip injury running is my greatest injury risk so I'm trying to keep the volume low while still maintaining at least one session a week and a long run of about 10 - 12 miles. Last week I did run intervals Tuesday, a tempo Friday and then I thought I'd be able for 90 min on Sunday but my hip was uncomfortable after the 10k on the road and I had to cut it back to 80 min. Having the track to run on makes a huge difference as its so much kinder to the legs!

career move

Friday:

Rest

Saturday:

Yoga: 60 min

Sunday:

Run: County Novice (road 3k)

I really wanted to do well in this race. Top 3 and team gold was the plan so I made sure all week not to overdo it. Run volume was cut back and no long spins on the bike. The race was in Moyne, the last 3k of the 5k route. There's a bit of a hill on the second k but overall it's a pretty fast route and I was thinking 11:30 should be achievable. We had 11 runners from the club which was probably about a quarter of the field
I lined up behind two of my club mates. Angela, who's my training buddy and orla who ran the first leg of the relays and there was two more club mates right behind me. The start was pretty lively and there must have been about 10 people in front of us when we settled down. I sat in behind the two girls and we were slowly picking people off over the first km. The pace felt OK. At times I thought my breathing could have been better but then other times I felt quite strong so I wasn't unduly worried. Lorraine went by me and the other two girls looked strong and I remember thinking the team gold was looking good.

The alarm bells started ringing for me after about 1500m. By this stage Angela and orla were 3rd and 4th, Lorraine was 6th and I was 8th. I felt completely drained of energy and I dropped back off the girls. We passed the 2k mark and it was all I could do to stop myself from walking. My legs were like lead. I few people from other clubs passed me and I didn't care. My own club mates who I'm always well in front of passed by and I didn't care. All my mental energy was focused on keeping myself from walking. My breathing was dreadful. People from the club told me afterwards that I sounded like I'd been smoking 50 cigarettes a day for the last 30 years. Finally the finish line came. As soon as I stopped my legs felt like they were going to go from under me and I had to quickly duck under some tape and sit myself down for a few minutes. Angela finished a brilliant 2nd in 11:28, Louise ran a super race to just nab 3rd, Orla was 5h and Moyne had the first and third teams. It's the first time Moyne have won the cup so our coach was very happy and very proud. I finished 18th in 12:46 so no silverware for me

What went wrong:
Looking at the splits (3:39, 4:15, 4:50) it looks like I went out too hard and blew up but I don't think that's what happened because I train with Angela all the time and I know I can keep pace with her and the pace didn't feel outrageously hard. I don't feel great now but I'm not sure if that's because of the race or because I'm actually not feeling great. I felt good this morning. I felt good doing my warmup. There was nothing to suggest uh oh you're going to have a crap race today. I think I did enough training this week without doing too much so I don't think that's the reason. My last really crap race was the 2014 raheny 5m where I did a similar thing and just died a death towards the end but I had a sore tooth and I was on antibiotics that week whereas I really have no idea why today was so bad.

Too p!ssed off to do a turbo now so just going to wallow in my own misery in front of the fire for the evening and stuff myself with chocolate

|Dist (km)|Time (hrs)
Run|22|2:05
Bike||4:30
Swim||
Paddle||
Core||4:10
Total||10:45

tang1

Not like you is all I'll say, usually when you have a bad performance there's good reason for it. Your not one to give up like that.

Dilbert75

"That's life (that's life) that's what all people say
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change their tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June"

I'd suspect you could be coming down with something (apart from cocoa poisoning). It seems the most likely cause. Take care of yourself, get rest and fluids and eat well.

Firedance

do you monitor your HR K? there's an app you can get for you phone, I check mine most mornings and if its a little high its a good indicator that you are either overtrained or coming down with something, you could be in the latter camp. Don't wallow too long though ok, you're a tough cookie, onwards to the next goal..

career move

Firedance wrote: »

do you monitor your HR K? there's an app you can get for you phone, I check mine most mornings and if its a little high its a good indicator that you are either overtrained or coming down with something, you could be in the latter camp. Don't wallow too long though ok, you're a tough cookie, onwards to the next goal..

I used to but I kept forgetting so I just stopped. I'll try and remember to do it next week thanks

Neady83

Awh Poop K, I'm sorry to hear that. I don't have any words or wisdom for you. That 1,500m must have been torture and you kept going, that will stand to. You might be coming down with something but whatever the reason, I hope you figure it out. Rest up and it's a win for the club and the team and you're part of that team so well done

shotgunmcos

You race hard everytime. It's not always going to go your way. It's ok to have an off one. Perhaps you just went way too deep into lactate accumulation early. The body will almost shut down screaming at you to slow down to grasp some oxygen to combat it. Perhaps you were just not 100% too. Chin up!

sconhome

career move wrote: »

I used to but I kept forgetting so I just stopped. I'll try and remember to do it next week thanks

Don't be beating yourself up (that's the karate talking) you had an off day and as DIlbert suggests you may be coming down with a cold or something.

I find using a HRV app like ELite HRV is a great way to monitor your overall health. Bit of a pain remembering to check every day - best to build a profile but if you do it when you wake up it gives you 2 minutes to clear the head and get ready for the day.

It is a great way to spot over-training or sickness coming on.

Dory Dory

Ummm....it always get worse before it gets better??? Nah, you just had one of those "off" days (for whatever reason - illness, fatigue, or cocoa poisoning). And you know what? Off days are okay because they make the on days all that much better. Rest up, champ, and shake it off. Tomorrow is another day.

career move

Thanks all for the pep talks posts My legs are quite sore today. They feel like they raced for a lot longer than 3k yesterday! My RHR was 45 this morning. I last checked it on Jan 25th and it was 42 so if we attribute the little rise to the race yesterday, it's normal. Anyway today is a new week so moving on .....

I'm doing the half marathon in Portumna on Jun 11th. 1:32 is my dream result but sub 1:35 would be acceptable too I haven't had any noticeable hip pain for the last two months so I'm going to try and follow a plan for a while instead of making it up week by week. This will be easier for me mentally and hopefully it will give my training a bit more structure. I'm going to go with the FIRST half marathon plan because the 3 day week will allow me to get lots of bike work done as well and there's a smaller risk that I'll overdo it compared to if I was running 5/6 days a week. Also it's quite a speed focused plan which is unlike any other plan I've followed and it'll be interesting to see how I cope with it.

The program includes eight essential principles. They are:

One. You can follow it without a lot of hassle. Thanks to the relatively low mileage the plan requires, your risk of overtraining and burnout is lower. It's also a program that will teach you a solid, positive, life-long approach to running.

Two. You run just three days a week. And each run--speed, tempo, long--has a specific purpose. The speedwork makes you faster; the tempo run raises your lactate threshold, enabling you to hold a faster pace during the half; and the long run increases your endurance.

Three. You run a variety of speedwork: 400s, 800s, and 1600-meter repeats. And make no mistake about it: There is real speed in these speed sessions, so run them with a fast friend.

Four. You do your tempo run--from two miles to eight miles--at faster than normal training pace, or 15 seconds faster than your targeted half-marathon pace.
Five. You gradually build up your long run to 12 miles. And you do those long runs at a slightly faster pace than you would do on a normal long run.

Six. You cross-train twice a week. Easily at first, but as you get more fit, you raise the intensity, which will make you fitter.

Seven. You're asked not to train or race through pain or a slew of missed workouts due to sickness or busy times at work.

Eight. You taper for two weeks. This will ensure that you step up to the starting line rested, injury-free, and ready to reach your goal time.

My HM goal time based on most recent 5k race + 35 sec/mile => 6:41+35 + 7:16/mi, 4:30/k ( That 5k was the day after I flew back from Australia so although I know I can run a faster 5k than that, my HM pb pace is only 7:22/mile so that will do for a beginning)

The Training Runs

This half-marathon program includes three time-targeted runs each week. On Tuesday, speedwork. On Thursday, a tempo run. On Saturday or Sunday, the long run.

Since you'll be running only three days a week, these runs might be faster than you're used to, maybe a lot faster. This is because each run serves a purpose--mainly, to make you fitter and faster for your race. The emphasis on intensity for these three sessions provides the runner with stimulation, both physiological and psychological, associated with hard efforts.

Speedwork:
The plan uses three distances--400, 800, and 1600--which should be done on a track or well-measured flat trail. Warm up with a 20-minute jog and cool down after your session with a 10-minute jog. This helps prevent muscle strains, and will keep your legs fresh for the next session.

Speedwork Times:
400s--HMP, minus 75 seconds, divided by 4 = 90 sec (6:02/mi, 3:45/k)
800s--HMP, minus 65 seconds, divided by 2 = 185 sec (6:12/mi, 3:51/k)
1600s--HMP, minus 45 seconds = 6:31 (6:33/mi. 4:04/k)

Tempo Runs:

The tempo run does two key things for you: It enables the runner to keep running at a faster pace and it also trains the runner to keep running beyond his or her comfort zone, which is what a runner must do in a race. The key here is a good relaxed warmup jog ~10 min, then a gradual shift into your tempo pace, followed by a relaxed cooldown jog ~ 10 min.

Tempo Pace: HMP minus 15 seconds = 7:01/mi, 4:21/k

Long Runs:
Without the strong, steady, endurance-boosting long run, speed workouts and tempo runs would gradually wear you down. Start at seven miles and work up to 12, which is short enough not to warrant extended recovery, but long enough to give you that all-important "mileage confidence" for race day.

Long Run Pace: HMP + 30 seconds per mile = 7:46/mi, 4:50/k :eek:

Other Days: Take one day a week off. Two or three days a week, cross-train for 30 to 40 minutes, gradually upping the intensity of that swim or bike as you get fitter and your ability to recover from the runs improves.

** I'm going to doing a lot more cross training than that. 4 days: 2 x 60min bike, 1 x 30min bike, 1 x 2-4hr bike, 2 x 90min karate, 2 x 30min swim. Hopefully I'll be able to manage that most weeks. It's a ten week plan and I have 17 weeks to Portumna. This week I'll take as a recovery week and there's 3 weeks where I have club races so I won't follow the plan and I'll leave 3 weeks for Triharder training weekends so all things going well I'll start next week

The Plan

Week Tuesday Wednesday Sat/Sun
1 4x400 3-mile tempo 6-mile long run
2 4x800 4-mile tempo 8-mile long run
3 3x1600 5-mile tempo 10-mile long run
4 6x400 6-mile tempo 6-mile long run
5 3x1600 4-mile tempo 10-mile long run
6 4x800 8-mile tempo 8-mile long run
7 6x400 6-mile tempo 10-mile long run
8 4x1600 8-mile tempo 12-mile long run
9 3x800 3-mile tempo 6-mile long run
10 4x400 2-mile tempo Half Marathon

Neady83

Wow, that sounds like a lot but it also sounds like a well thought out plan with plenty of time to maneuver and to train for the long stuff. I look forward to following your progress.

p.s. you've just put my excuses theory as to why I can't train specifically for a race while I'm training for the long adventures to shame

career move

Neady83 wrote: »

Wow, that sounds like a lot but it also sounds like a well thought out plan with plenty of time to maneuver and to train for the long stuff. I look forward to following your progress.

p.s. you've just put my excuses theory as to why I can't train specifically for a race while I'm training for the long adventures to shame

Thanks. I'm looking forward to trying something new but that long run pace is a little bit scary!!

Oh and sorry about that

Dory Dory

For my first two marathons, I followed the FIRST plan and thought it served me very well. However, I don't remember the paces for the various sessions being quite that hot, so I'm guessing those paces are a wee bit slower for a full marathon plan vs. a half marathon plan. I think you will enjoy this...and I look forward to following your progress!!

career move

Dory Dory wrote: »

For my first two marathons, I followed the FIRST plan and thought it served me very well. However, I don't remember the paces for the various sessions being quite that hot, so I'm guessing those paces are a wee bit slower for a full marathon plan vs. a half marathon plan. I think you will enjoy this...and I look forward to following your progress!!

(Confession: I haven't read the start of your log, I just joined in a couple of years ago )

That's great that you found the marathon plan good. It's a very different approach and there's not too many people on boards have used it. I only know of one other but he found it good as well. I must read over your log

Dory Dory

career move wrote: »

(Confession: I haven't read the start of your log, I just joined in a couple of years ago )

That's great that you found the marathon plan good. It's a very different approach and there's not too many people on boards have used it. I only know of one other but he found it good as well. I must read over your log

I even have the FIRST book that explains all the whys and why nots to the plan. Do you have that?? If not, (it's not essential, but...) I can always send it to you.

career move

Dory Dory wrote: »

I even have the FIRST book that explains all the whys and why nots to the plan. Do you have that?? If not, (it's not essential, but...) I can always send it to you.

No I don't have the book. I've done all my research on the Internet It's very kind of you to offer to send yours but I couldn't have you going to that trouble.

Shell to Run

I followed the plan for a marathon two years ago. Run Less Run Faster.
Excellent plan and yes upon completion I was running faster. For me the secret was not to overdo the cross training. You need to feel well rested and up for the sessions. The tempo runs proved to be the most difficult for me but then again I do not have your talent. Best of luck with it.

career move

Shell to Run wrote: »

I followed the plan for a marathon two years ago. Run Less Run Faster.
Excellent plan and yes upon completion I was running faster. For me the secret was not to overdo the cross training. You need to feel well rested and up for the sessions. The tempo runs proved to be the most difficult for me but then again I do not have your talent. Best of luck with it.

Thanks Shell. I'm glad you've marked my card about the cross training. It's something I'll have to give serious thought to and upon reflection, maybe I need to be a bit more realistic about the volume of training that I'm capable of handling. I think I've been borderline overtraining the last couple of weeks and it showed up in my poor performance on Sunday. Even though my heart rate is only slightly elevated, there were a few other warning signs last week. Several nights I woke in the early hours and couldn't get back to sleep, abnormal appetite, prolonged muscle soreness and this is embarrassing but the most stupid things were making me cry.

I think you're being very modest. You're every bit as talented as me and you're an Ironwoman! Tempo runs are brutes especially if you're not used to them. I remember the first few I did and they were supposedly at the right pace but I couldn't complete them without breaks. I think I should be ok with them because I've been practising them and it's been at a similar pace but we shall see :cool:

career move

Monday:

RHR: 45

Sleep: 8hrs continuous

Tuesday:

RHR: 44

Yoga: 45 min

Held each pose for a couple of minutes so nothing too energetic

Wednesday:

RHR: 42

Karate: 90 min

Felt crap during the warm up. We ran around the hall doing jumps, floor touches etc and I thought I was breathing way heavier than I should have been. The rest of the class was good although the floor was cold and I had multiple chilblains the next day.

Sleep: 8hr continuous

Thursday:

RHR: 49

Karate: 90 min

I didn't feel like doing this class but I would have hated to miss it and it turned out to be very enjoyable. There's always less people come during the midterm break so there was only 10 of us. We did planks for ages. Sensai had us each count to ten in Japenese then 10 second break then repeat 3 times. I did push ups on my knuckles for the first time and we did a load of kick practice again and we started to learn a black belt kata, that I can't remember the name of

Sleep: 3 + 4 broken

Friday:

RHR: 49

Rest

Sleep: 6 + 2 broken

Saturday:

RHR: 50

Rest

Sleep: 4 + 2

Sunday:

RHR: 45

Bike: 30 min Turbo

Yoga + core: 60 min

So that's been my week so far. Am I overtraining or am I not. This is a great post from Tunney on the subject http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70639421

Early on in the week I thought perhaps the overtraining was only an excuse for a crap race but now I'm 99% confident that's what my problem is. I had a look back at my log and on November 7th, my RHR was 38. The last couple of weeks that I was in Australia, all I did was train. Pretty much all day and when I came home I tried to keep the same volume going. I checked my RHR again on Jan 25th and it was 42. A small increase but significant maybe?

It was 45 on Monday after the race the previous day. I didn't think initially that 45 was that high but compared to 38 it is. 7 beats per min. 420/hr. 10,080 extra beats per day. When it was back to 42 on Wednesday though, I thought no, it's not overtraining. I must have had a viral infection or something. And then I did karate on Wednesday and Thursday and that 3 hours of exercise has disrupted my sleep pattern and increased my RHR significantly.

I'm so annoyed I've let myself get into this situation again but I genuinely did not think I was training that hard. Stupid body :mad:

Neady83

Don't be too hard on yourself K, it's hard to get the balance right especially when you're training for a longer AR this year and you're knocking out the race results that you are.

career move

Monday:

RHR: 39

Sleep: 8+

Rest. Was tempted to jump on the bike for half an hour but I resisted temptation. Must. Stick. To. Plan. The club captain is entering a team for the Munster Novice on April 3rd and I wanna be on that team!

Tuesday:

RHR: 40

Sleep: 8

Run: 6k @ 5:02 + 6 x 100m strides

I think I need to transition into the "Run Less, Run Faster" paces so I'm going to aim to do all runs this week at steady pace and start adding in sessions next week. I weighed myself this morning. 62.7kg. Thought I was heavier but I need to lose at least 3kg to be at race weight. I've cut out chocolate from yesterday. One day down. If I can last for a week it'll be easy after that. I started iron tablets last week. Going to keep supplementing daily for 3 months in case it was low and then taper it down to maybe every second or third day.

Core: 30 min

Including some yoga poses, bridges, squats and this workout with the foam roller that I got on runnersworld.

1. PLANK
WORKS ABDOMINALS, GLUTES, BACK, SHOULDERS

How to do it: Place your palms shoulder width apart on the foam roller. Keep your elbows slightly flexed, your back straight, and your neck neutral. Stabilize the foam roller in this position, and hold for 30 seconds. Repeat three times.

2. PUSHUP WITH LEG LIFT
WORKS CHEST, TRICEPS, ABDOMINALS, GLUTES

How to do it: Start in foam-roller plank. Lower your chest toward the roller, keeping your elbows in. Lift your right leg up, then lower it. Repeat the pushup, then lift the left leg. Alternate for three sets of eight to 12 reps.

3. PUSHUP WITH ARM LIFT
WORKS BICEPS, TRICEPS, CHEST, SHOULDERS, ABDOMINALS

How to do it: Lower into a pushup with your left palm on the ground and your right palm on a foam roller. Push up and lift the roller until it's parallel to your chest. Do three sets of eight to 12 reps with each arm.

4. WALL SQUAT
WORKS QUADRICEPS, GLUTES, ABDOMINALS

How to do it: Stand with a foam roller between your midback and a wall and your feet shoulder width apart. Slowly squat down toward the floor until the foam roller reaches your shoulder blades. Stand and repeat eight to 12 times for three sets.

5. BRIDGE WITH LEG LIFT
WORKS GLUTES, HAMSTRINGS, QUADS, ABDOMINALS

How to do it: Lie on your back, heels on a foam roller. Raise your hips up toward the ceiling, then extend your right leg. Bring your right leg down and hips back to ground. Do three sets of eight to 12 on each leg.

career move

Wednesday:

RHR: 42

Sleep: 9.5

Bike: 30 min Turbo

Easy spinning while I was waiting for my dinner to cook. I had a passenger cause the cat decided after watching me for 10 minutes that he should be on my shoulders. I only let him because I had two jumpers on (our kitchen is freezing) and he wouldn't be digging his claws into my back. He lasted till the end even though I thought he must be getting motion sickness because even though I try not to,there is quite a bit of upper body movement.

Karate: 90 min

Dilbert75

I'm envious of both your rhr and length of sleep.

Neady83

career move wrote: »

I had a passenger cause the cat decided after watching me for 10 minutes that he should be on my shoulders. I only let him because I had two jumpers on (our kitchen is freezing) and he wouldn't be digging his claws into my back. He lasted till the end even though I thought he must be getting motion sickness because even though I try not to,there is quite a bit of upper body movement.

This has to have some sort of benefit for AR

How are energy levels this week?

career move

Dilbert75 wrote: »

I'm envious of both your rhr and length of sleep.

I'll swop them for your marathon PB

Neady83 wrote: »

This has to have some sort of benefit for AR

How are energy levels this week?

Absolutely. He weighs 4.3kg. It's like cycling with a self heating camelbak! Energy levels are good this week

career move

Thursday:

RHR: 45

Sleep: 6 (broken)

Run: 8k @ 4:53 + 5 min recovery

I didn't sleep well last night (Dilbert must have jinxed me ). I find it hard to settle lately when I get home from karate. It's usually about half ten and I'm generally starving. Last night I had a massive bowl of fruit! I woke twice during the night and I went back to sleep quickly but it's still disruptive. I think that's why my heart rate was high this morning. The run went well. I started off uphill and it felt like steady effort so I was surprised that the first Km was only 5:3x I started thinking maybe the FIRST plan was going to be too hard for me and I'm going to start to hate running if I have to work this hard on all my runs and other equally negative thoughts. But then the next Km was 4:4x and I felt better about life The other splits were similar pace but I was glad to stop after 8k. My glutes are sore tonight and I'm tired so I'm going to give karate a miss and get an early night. For the next 3 weeks karate is on Mon/Thurs instead of Wed/Thurs which suits me way better.

career move

Friday:

RHR: 40

Sleep: 9.5

Bike: 30 min Turbo with 6 x 1 min hard/1 min easy

No cat today. He was busy sleeping on the chair. Just as well as it was warm on the bike today and I had to peel down to my t-shirt. Legs are good today