DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

Firedance

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Would you benefit from doing this race as part of your training plan for Dublin would most people generally do this too like the race series ?

Yes, for me the prospect of mapping out a 20 mile route v doing this with lots of company and food/water stops sold it. Its a hilly course yes and its tough but your not racing it and its a good confidence booster for dcm, I did the Athlone half & this instead of the race series.

adrian522

As long as you have the patience/control to run at at your long run pace I guess it's fine. I don't tend to enter races to do training runs as I find them expensive enough and I can't imagine sticking to slow run pace in a race so I guess it depends on the individual.

laura_ac3

I didn't do it but it sounds like a good tester to give things a last minute dry run as firedance says. From what I read about it before you should be careful and and disciplined with the pace, it's close enough to the marathon that you don't want to run your race on the wrong day at the wrong race, so to speak. Plenty of time anyway to see how you're feeling closer!

Mrs Mc

laura_ac3 wrote: »

I didn't do it but it sounds like a good tester to give things a last minute dry run as firedance says. From what I read about it before you should be careful and and disciplined with the pace, it's close enough to the marathon that you don't want to run your race on the wrong day at the wrong race, so to speak. Plenty of time anyway to see how you're feeling closer!

Thanks Laura afraid it my frighten me out of doing Dublin !! But one step at a time I guess.

yaboya1

Whatever you do, don't race it!
That's what I did three weeks out in 2010. Pretty sure I left my marathon out there as well as causing a hamstring injury.
Tough course.

Mrs Mc

yaboya1 wrote: »

Whatever you do, don't race it!
That's what I did three weeks out in 2010. Pretty sure I left my marathon out there as well as causing a hamstring injury.
Tough course.

Thanks P will consider it very carefully so.

FBOT01

yaboya1 wrote: »

Whatever you do, don't race it!
That's what I did three weeks out in 2010. Pretty sure I left my marathon out there as well as causing a hamstring injury.
Tough course.

That was before you saw the light and used to race everything including all your training session :P

I have no recollection of it being a tough course but do remember it as a very enjoyable long run. Anyway I don't think anyone on here should be worrying about it too much at this stage. Just enjoy the last few weeks of base building before the games begin

Emsy 1

I'm looking to start taking some vitamins or supplements. Singers post made me think about it as I also had pleurisy last year deffo don't want that again ( hurts like hell). Any suggestions..?

Alan30

FBOT01 wrote: »

That was before you saw the light and used to race everything including all your training session :P

I have no recollection of it being a tough course but do remember it as a very enjoyable long run. Anyway I don't think anyone on here should be worrying about it too much at this stage. Just enjoy the last few weeks of base building before the games begin

I ran this last year and definitely ran it to fast, for me, finishing in 3:07. I was thinking i was on good time for a 4:10 or so marathon but I don`t think i fully recovered from it and had a disaster in October. Its a nice course but with a massive hill about 2 mile from the finish which seems to go on forever.

chrislad

What are good alternatives to energy gels? I really just can't get on with them, and while I've not needed them for the half marathon distance, the full is a different beast. Currently, I just have Lucozade Sport for the 10 mile plus runs.

adrian522

It's a very interesting debate and there is a school of thought that you don't necessarily need to take anything. If you want to take on additional carbs though, sports drink is a good idea and may be easier to take on than gels.

They give out lucozade sport at various points in the marathon so you wouldn't need to carry anything. Some people go old school and eat proper food such as bananas or whatever.

Also you can look to Jelly baby's, basically anything that will be easy to carry and easy to digest.

Most important thing is to practice whatever you plan to take in the race during training. You have a lot of time so practice with a few different things to see what works for you.

adrian522

Emsy 1 wrote: »

I'm looking to start taking some vitamins or supplements. Singers post made me think about it as I also had pleurisy last year deffo don't want that again ( hurts like hell). Any suggestions..?

Hi,

Personally, I think you should only be taking supplements if something is lacking in your diet. For example if you don't get enough of a particular mineral or vitiman you could take a supplement for that.

I've read elsewhere that it could have a negative affect to take additional supplements where they are not needed (not sure where I read this though),

Basically I think it is much better to get this from real food rather than relying on supplements. For example I'd much prefer to get protein from additional meat/eggs/dairy in my diet than taking some protein powder every day. IF you were vegan for example you may want to look into that but in general I would look to improving your diet rather than adding supplements unless you know you are lacking in some area.

That's just my opinion though and I'm sure other will have different ideas.

KingMambo26

If I remember correctly last year there were only two Lucozade stations en route so don't rely on that. I had my OH to make small parcels of Natural Confectionary Dinosaurs wrapped in cling film and hand them over to me at a couple of points along the course so that I wouldn't have to carry them with me all the time (she's great I know).

An alternative to gels could be GU chews or something similar.

adrian522

There were 4 lucozade sports points on last years course. 9.5 Miles/13 Miles/19 Miles/22 Miles. I didn't make use of them but it is certainly an option.

saucyjack

adrian522 wrote: »

Some people go old school and eat proper food such as bananas or whatever.

Most important thing is to practice whatever you plan to take in the race during training.

...and you're guaranteed some spectators will be handing bananas to any runners who want them from half-way onward...if memory serves Crumlin Rd to Terenure has lots of banana donors....bless them.

Clearlier

adrian522 wrote: »

Hi,

Personally, I think you should only be taking supplements if something is lacking in your diet. For example if you don't get enough of a particular mineral or vitiman you could take a supplement for that.

I've read elsewhere that it could have a negative affect to take additional supplements where they are not needed (not sure where I read this though),

Basically I think it is much better to get this from real food rather than relying on supplements. For example I'd much prefer to get protein from additional meat/eggs/dairy in my diet than taking some protein powder every day. IF you were vegan for example you may want to look into that but in general I would look to improving your diet rather than adding supplements unless you know you are lacking in some area.

That's just my opinion though and I'm sure other will have different ideas.

Real whole (processed as little as possible) food as Adrian says is the way to go.

There are risks to supplementation. Disclaimer: I'm not a chemist or a nutritionist - this is just intended to give an idea of the dangers of random supplementation.

In extreme cases (polar explorers eating polar bear liver which has massive amounts of vitamin A) you can die as supplements which are fat soluble will be stored in the body. Water soluble ones such as Vitamin C tend not to give too much trouble although they can cause intestinal distress. Also, some minerals are antagonists (e.g. copper and zinc) which means that you need to keep them in balance so if you supplement with one but not the other then you can cause health problems. I would supplement only if there's a definite indication that it's required. The classic one is high mileage female runners with heavy periods being iron deficient but there's no guarantee and you absolutely should not take iron supplements (antagonist with zinc IIRC) unless your doctor/qualified healthcare professional has conducted a blood test and told you how much to supplement by.

As an aside IIRC vegans need to supplement with B12 as it's not available in a vegan diet but I expect that most vegans would be aware of this already.

Clearlier

saucyjack wrote: »

...and you're guaranteed some spectators will be handing bananas to any runners who want them from half-way onward...if memory serves Crumlin Rd to Terenure has lots of banana donors....bless them.

Sweets too, lots of people with jellies, chocolate and anything else that they can think of. They were a lifesaver for me in the first marathon as I failed to pick up two gels from somebody at the halfway point, wasn't able to stomach the gels provided by the race and started to bonk. The ones that were so chewy they caused my teeth to stick together were a little unfortunate though! Spectators at DCM are great in supporting you - the kids absolutely love handing things out and you'll see people who have obviously made a trip to the cash and carry to buy things for runners. It really is amazing.

Emsy 1

Thanks for the sound advice guys. I will be bringing a sports drink on my Lsr from now on. This marathons sounding better by the second with all these goodies 😉

Dow99

Folks,
Has there been a spreadsheet posted yet (like with the previous few years) where we can keep track of our mileage training programs ect?

I'm following the 22 week program that was in this months Irish Runners Mag. Anyone else following this?

Kennyg71

Dow99 wrote: »

Folks,
Has there been a spreadsheet posted yet (like with the previous few years) where we can keep track of our mileage training programs ect?

I'm following the 22 week program that was in this months Irish Runners Mag. Anyone else following this?

It's David Carey plan & he has guided a few Hundred people on it over
last few years, was looking at it my self but will start week late.
I think as all who recommended it said, stick to the plan & be consistent.

HelenAnne

Clearlier wrote: »

Sweets too, lots of people with jellies, chocolate and anything else that they can think of. They were a lifesaver for me in the first marathon as I failed to pick up two gels from somebody at the halfway point, wasn't able to stomach the gels provided by the race and started to bonk. The ones that were so chewy they caused my teeth to stick together were a little unfortunate though! Spectators at DCM are great in supporting you - the kids absolutely love handing things out and you'll see people who have obviously made a trip to the cash and carry to buy things for runners. It really is amazing.

My mum said she ate most of the jellies herself waiting for me and my husband to pass her when she was watching DCM. She did hand loads out, but she said she got nervous wondering where I was (running slower and slower from mile 19 on is where I was ) and ate them to calm herself .

Firedance

Clearlier wrote: »

Sweets too, lots of people with jellies, chocolate and anything else that they can think of. They were a lifesaver for me in the first marathon as I failed to pick up two gels from somebody at the halfway point, wasn't able to stomach the gels provided by the race and started to bonk. The ones that were so chewy they caused my teeth to stick together were a little unfortunate though! Spectators at DCM are great in supporting you - the kids absolutely love handing things out and you'll see people who have obviously made a trip to the cash and carry to buy things for runners. It really is amazing.

don't forget the golden rule though, never do/wear/eat anything on race day that you haven't tried in training :-)

Clearlier

Firedance wrote: »

don't forget the golden rule though, never do/wear/eat anything on race day that you haven't tried in training :-)

There's not a sweet or chocolate in Ireland that I haven't eaten before. Eating sweets is part of training isn't it? :pac:

chrislad

I especially like the jelly tots option. Nyom!!!!

Firedance

Clearlier wrote: »

There's not a sweet or chocolate in Ireland that I haven't eaten before. Eating sweets is part of training isn't it? :pac:

me too (unfortunately!) but for those of us with a delicate constitution eating while running can have... em 'consequences'

RonanP77

Firedance wrote:

me too (unfortunately!) but for those of us with a delicate constitution eating while running can have... em 'consequences'

What does someone actually do in a situation like that?

frash

RonanP77 wrote: »

What does someone actually do in a situation like that?

Never do a Google image search for "runners trots"

This Fat Girl Runs

I ran a 5 mile race once and saw some kids handing out jelly beans. I always regretted not taking any as they looked so excited to be able to hand them out.

I think I'm going to train with some jelly beans, just so I can take a few during the marathon. It's for the kids, you know?

BullBauld

Clearlier wrote: »

Sweets too, lots of people with jellies, chocolate and anything else that they can think of. They were a lifesaver for me in the first marathon as I failed to pick up two gels from somebody at the halfway point, wasn't able to stomach the gels provided by the race and started to bonk. The ones that were so chewy they caused my teeth to stick together were a little unfortunate though! Spectators at DCM are great in supporting you - the kids absolutely love handing things out and you'll see people who have obviously made a trip to the cash and carry to buy things for runners. It really is amazing.

This is one of the things I'm looking forward to the most in Dublin.

I ran my first marathon in Limerick a few weeks ago and while the people who were out supporting were great and very much appreciated, the race for a lot of it was a lonely one. Long stretches where there was no one, through industrial estates etc. Was tough going.

Everyone raves about the support in Dublin....can't wait to experience it

Notwork Error

chrislad wrote: »

I especially like the jelly tots option. Nyom!!!!

Spoilt if you get your hands on jelly tots! During my first marathon, I was coming up to about 23 miles and there was a few kids with a little table and small garden chairs on the side of the road handing out and I kid you not, buttered toast!:D Didn't take them up on the offer but it gave me a good laugh and boost when I needed it.:)

adrian522

BullBauld wrote: »

This is one of the things I'm looking forward to the most in Dublin.

I ran my first marathon in Limerick a few weeks ago and while the people who were out supporting were great and very much appreciated, the race for a lot of it was a lonely one. Long stretches where there was no one, through industrial estates etc. Was tough going.

Everyone raves about the support in Dublin....can't wait to experience it

Around 21 or 22 miles in Dublin last year I was really struggling and tempted to stop and walk for a bit. I said to myself if/when I reach a spot where there is no one out cheering me on I'll stop to a walk.

Funnily enough that spot never arrived!

Kennyg71

Dow99 wrote: »

Folks,
Has there been a spreadsheet posted yet (like with the previous few years) where we can keep track of our mileage training programs ect?

I'm following the 22 week program that was in this months Irish Runners Mag. Anyone else following this?

Pg19 spread sheet posted

Dub13

I am sure most of you are aware of them but if not the ParkRuns are great for doing your speed sessions, you will always run faster in a race environment. So if you can try to use them.

annapr

FBOT01 wrote: »

+1 to this event being a great way to get your last LR run in before taper. I think it normally has about 800/1000 entries with quite a few of those doing it as a training run for DCM. All going well I'll be doing it

You might even meet up with Mrs Mc there...!

annapr

saucyjack wrote: »

...and you're guaranteed some spectators will be handing bananas to any runners who want them from half-way onward...if memory serves Crumlin Rd to Terenure has lots of banana donors....bless them.

...and jelly bean donors, and orange segments, and lots of other things I can't remember but got me through it!

annapr

RonanP77 wrote: »

What does someone actually do in a situation like that?

that's how you become a 'real runner' :eek:

Chilli Con Kearney

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hi there chilli! Welcome to the thread. You're going well (1:37 for a half says so anyway) on two days a week...but I really think you need to start scheduling more days for running in order to spread the load (I had to google TRX ). I'd love to see your schedule, any chance you'd do a 'show and tell'?! You can PM it if you like. We want to keep you injury free and if there's anything there that screams 'overload' we can tweak it now rather than further down the line

Hi Dubgal. Here is the plan I have put together. What do you think? I'm open to all suggestions! Thanks

menoscemo

Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »

Hi Dubgal. Here is the plan I have put together. What do you think? I'm open to all suggestions! Thanks

I think Dubgal is still on holiday so I'll give me 2c if you don't mind?

A couple of points:

1. The only progression seems to be in your long runs, all the other runs stay the same length (3-5 miles). This means by the weeks of your 20 milers the long run will make up over 50% of your total weekly miles. To counter I would progress one of your other runs each week and make it an 'MLR' (medium long run). Build it up to at least 10 miles. I would probably pick the Tuesday run for this.

2. Your Thursday Interval session starts with 3 x 1600 then goes back to 800m x 4. Why is this? It seems a step backwards. By all means keep your interval session once a week but make it progressive. Maybe start with 4 x 800 and build up. Also incorporate a warm/up and cooldown to build overall mileage.

3. You don't seem to have planned for any races at all? I think at least 1 half marathon would be beneficial but you would need to introduce a mini taper in the days before it and a recovery week after it.

I think the general long run progression and the presence of step back weeks (2 weeks hard, 1 week stepback) is very good, but I would look at the above so as not to make the distance of the long run your sole progression throughout the programme.

Chilli Con Kearney

menoscemo wrote: »

I think Dubgal is still on holiday so I'll give me 2c if you don't mind?

A couple of points:

1. The only progression seems to be in your long runs, all the other runs stay the same length (3-5 miles). This means by the weeks of your 20 milers the long run will make up over 50% of your total weekly miles. To counter I would progress one of your other runs each week and make it an 'MLR' (medium long run). Build it up to at least 10 miles. I would probably pick the Tuesday run for this.

2. Your Thursday Interval session starts with 3 x 1600 then goes back to 800m x 4. Why is this? It seems a step backwards. By all means keep your interval session once a week but make it progressive. Maybe start with 4 x 800 and build up. Also incorporate a warm/up and cooldown to build overall mileage.

3. You don't seem to have planned for any races at all? I think at least 1 half marathon would be beneficial but you would need to introduce a mini taper in the days before it and a recovery week after it.

I think the general long run progression and the presence of step back weeks (2 weeks hard, 1 week stepback) is very good, but I would look at the above so as not to make the distance of the long run your sole progression throughout the programme.

Thanks! I'll adjust the shorter runs to progress as well. To be honest, I'll probably start these at 5/6 miles. Don't really think shorter ones will do much for me. I'll switch the intervals around too.

I'm doing a half next week, then one in July, August and September. I was just going to switch them in for the respective Sat run on the sheet. I won't do the halves when I've longer training runs though. If I make the switches, do you think it's a decent enough plan for a first timer? I'm hoping to run around 3:30-40 so am not sure about bringing timing into my sessions.

FBOT01

Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »

Thanks! I'll adjust the shorter runs to progress as well. To be honest, I'll probably start these at 5/6 miles. Don't really think shorter ones will do much for me. I'll switch the intervals around too.

I'm doing a half next week, then one in July, August and September. I was just going to switch them in for the respective Sat run on the sheet. I won't do the halves when I've longer training runs though. If I make the switches, do you think it's a decent enough plan for a first timer? I'm hoping to run around 3:30-40 so am not sure about bringing timing into my sessions.

Is there a particular reason why you wouldn't go with one of the many tried and tested plans rather than trying to reinvent the wheel?

Off a 1:37 half no reason why you couldn't get to your target with the right plan if you commit to it....IMHO.

menoscemo

Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »

Thanks! I'll adjust the shorter runs to progress as well. To be honest, I'll probably start these at 5/6 miles. Don't really think shorter ones will do much for me. I'll switch the intervals around too.

I'm doing a half next week, then one in July, August and September. I was just going to switch them in for the respective Sat run on the sheet. I won't do the halves when I've longer training runs though. If I make the switches, do you think it's a decent enough plan for a first timer? I'm hoping to run around 3:30-40 so am not sure about bringing timing into my sessions.

You don't need to adjust all your short runs. You should keep at least two runs per week short and easy (recovery runs). Just pick one per week and gradually up it's distance.

There is no need to do 4 halfs in your plan. You probably should only do 1 (max 2) and flat out race them. Decide which one you are going to race and put it in your plan as a race. That means do it at the end of a recovery week and the following week should be very easy (all short/easy runs, no intervals) until at least the following weekend at which point you can do your scheduled long run. Other than that week your tuesday run should progress from an easy 5 miler up to a 10-12 miler at the peak of your plan.

Antwerp

Hi Dubgal,
Just discovered this thread and have been considering doing the DCM 2015 for the last few weeks, have lost count of the times I've logged into DCM registration page but then left as became scared...is it too late to join your thread?

Away at the moment but basically running a year, ran Terenure 5 Mile 2014, Dublin Race Series 2014, Dun Laoghaire 10km, Wexford Half Marathon April 2015, Terenure 5 mile 2015 and signed up for Dublin Race Series 2015 and Rock n Roll Half Marathon Aug 2015 so I know I can commit to a plan.

So if not too late could I join this thread, if so will reply with answers to the earlier questions.

Thanks a mill

Stevo1983

Triathlon this week so my distance dropped to 23k for the week.
Off work this week so I'll be back up to a proper distance.

Just heading toward the finish of the edinburgh marathon, what are the most appreciated foodstuffs? Mini bags of haribos??

chrislad

Just got new shoes (Brooks Ghost 7) and got fitted for proper insoles. However, after about 10 miles, I've two blisters on each side at the top of the inside of my arch. I was using 1000 miles socks, which haven't done the job with this shoe! The insoles are there to lift my arch a bit so are the probably cause. Are there better socks with better arch cushioning or do I just need to break them in a bit more?

nop98

Antwerp wrote: »

Hi Dubgal,
Just discovered this thread and have been considering doing the DCM 2015 for the last few weeks, have lost count of the times I've logged into DCM registration page but then left as became scared...is it too late to join your thread?

Away at the moment but basically running a year, ran Terenure 5 Mile 2014, Dublin Race Series 2014, Dun Laoghaire 10km, Wexford Half Marathon April 2015, Terenure 5 mile 2015 and signed up for Dublin Race Series 2015 and Rock n Roll Half Marathon Aug 2015 so I know I can commit to a plan.

So if not too late could I join this thread, if so will reply with answers to the earlier questions.

Thanks a mill

I don't think it's too late, Antwerp. Dubgal's training program starts the week of June 22. There's a link to the 2014 plan in one of the first posts. The only recommendation is to be clocking up about 20 miles a week over the next three weeks, and then the fun starts.. :eek:

Dubgal72

Hi guys, I - ahem - very selflessly decided that this thread needs me more than I need la dolce vita, so I got that plane last night to find....what do you mean this place hasn't fallen apart without me at the helm??!! :eek:
Seriously, you've been in great hands, thank you everybody! And I see we have some new novices since Wednesday, I'll sit down later and get back to business...

laura_ac3

Good luck to anyone doing the WMM tomorrow. If it's miserable bring a black sack to help keep warm and dry while you wait as it's best to get in place well in time due to the crowds. Enjoy!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Just heading toward the finish of the edinburgh marathon, what are the most appreciated foodstuffs? Mini bags of haribos??

It turned out the answer was oranges!

Myself and another AR forum regular handed out various treats. Appreciation went in the order of; oranges, Jaffa cakes, jellies, gels.

Spent most of the day at the edinburgh marathon, probably walked a half marathon distance ourselves, I'm feckin exhausted :pac:

Really glad I didn't do it as my first marathon in the end, but equally as glad that it gave me such a huge motivation for dublin, both from the point of view of being inspired by some of the runners, and having manners put on me in terms of what I need to do for this.

Roll on Dublin.

RacoonQueen

chrislad wrote: »

Just got new shoes (Brooks Ghost 7) and got fitted for proper insoles. However, after about 10 miles, I've two blisters on each side at the top of the inside of my arch. I was using 1000 miles socks, which haven't done the job with this shoe! The insoles are there to lift my arch a bit so are the probably cause. Are there better socks with better arch cushioning or do I just need to break them in a bit more?

Where did you get the shoes / insoles fitted? If you're wearing the correct running shoes, you really shouldn't need insoles.