Is rural Ireland as backwards as people say?

realdanbreen

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Yes and the church influenced their parents and their grandparents and their great grandparents etc etc, .

I can only speak about my own family but neither my parents or grand parents were indoctrinated or tried to indoctrinate anyone, they were sound out people all of them. Obviously your family experience was much different.

JohnnyChimpo

realdanbreen wrote: »

Whats any of that got to do with atheists wanting the other 98.5% of the population to conform to their ways?

You've been dropping some great statistics in this thread, I just want to commend you on your pioneering research.

pmasterson95

Its gone from church bashing to gaa bashing to tipp bashing....wtf?

realdanbreen

JohnnyChimpo wrote: »

You've been dropping some great statistics in this thread, I just want to commend you on your pioneering research.

Thanks,Which one do you disagree with?

Huntergonzo

realdanbreen wrote: »

I can only speak about my own family but neither my parents or grand parents were indoctrinated or tried to indoctrinate anyone, they were sound out people all of them. Obviously your family experience was much different.

I'm afraid if your parents went to a catholic school they were infact indoctrinated (it's still going on today). Now I'm not being smart but I think you should Google the word indoctrinate because you seem to have a different meaning in your head.

Fact of the matter is over 90% of our primary schools teach children the catholic creation story as literal fact without a shred of evidence to back up their extraordinary claims, that's crazy stuff in this day and age. Like I said earlier, states and schools should be neutral when it comes religion, just teach what is known and allow people the freedom to make their own minds up, do you not agree with this?

Ps, I was raised catholic like most Irish people but my parents were never strict catholics, infact they never even encouraged us to go to mass with them and they hardly ever go themselves anymore, but not every house is like that.

realdanbreen

pmasterson95 wrote: »

Its gone from church bashing to gaa bashing to tipp bashing....wtf?

Its worse than the Gaza strip here in Tipp. We are hemmed in by 8 hurling counties all of whom hate us but hey! we thrive on it and it makes us tough salt of the earth folk.

realdanbreen

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I'm afraid if your parents went to a catholic school they were infact indoctrinated (it's still going on today). Now I'm not being smart but I think you should Google the word indoctrinate because you seem to have a different meaning in your head.

Fact of the matter is over 90% of our primary schools teach children the catholic creation story as literal fact without a shred of evidence to back up their extraordinary claims, that's crazy stuff in this day and age. Like I said earlier, states and schools should be neutral when it comes religion, just teach what is known and allow people the freedom to make their own minds up, do you not agree with this?

Ps, I was raised catholic like most Irish people but my parents were never strict catholics, infact they never even encouraged us to go to mass with them and they hardly ever go themselves anymore, but not every house is like that.

With all due respect to you, do you think I or anyone else cares about your beliefs or non beliefs. You seem pre occupied with Catholocism and you obviously believe that the majority of Irish people are backward because they don't share the views that you and a tiny minority share.

dont bother

realdanbreen wrote: »

Its worse than the Gaza strip here in Tipp. We are hemmed in by 8 hurling counties all of whom hate us but hey! we thrive on it and it makes us tough salt of the earth folk.

anyone i know or have met from Tipp is backwards, and a bigot, in every respect.

donegaLroad

This morning I spoke with a lady from Alaska who is the head of a large community group. Much of the work they do is with First Nations people (natives) who are marginalized and without much prospect or opportunity.

She said that when American government representatives visit some of the more rural Alaskan communities, they think that they are stepping into the third world for a day.

Huntergonzo

realdanbreen wrote: »

With all due respect to you, do you think I or anyone else cares about your beliefs or non beliefs. You seem pre occupied with Catholocism and you obviously believe that the majority of Irish people are backward because they don't share the views that you and a tiny minority share.

I know you don't specifically care what I do or don't believe, that's not what we're talking about, but we all live here so it's nice to get other people's opinions. Anyway what is your point, because what's coming across to me is, if you don't go along with the majority to hell with you, that's no way to run a country!

I'm occupied by Catholicism because of the huge influence it's had on Ireland since the foundation of the state and I reckon a nonbiased secular state and education system would be far more fair and I'm asking you do you agree with that?

I never said anybody was backwards, please stick to the content of what I'm saying or don't bother responding at all, making things up doesn't help your argument.

realdanbreen

dont bother wrote: »

anyone i know or have met from Tipp is backwards, and a bigot, in every respect.

What part of Clare are you from?

realdanbreen

donegaLroad wrote: »

This morning I spoke with a lady from Alaska who is the head of a large community group. Much of the work they do is with First Nations people (natives) who are marginalized and without much prospect or opportunity.

She said that when American government representatives visit some of the more rural Alaskan communities, they think that they are stepping into the third world for a day.

Wow! Is the purpose of your post to highlight the fact that you spoke to a lady in Alaska this morning?

eisenberg1

realdanbreen wrote: »

Wow! Is the purpose of your post to highlight the fact that you spoke to a lady in Alaska this morning?

Jesus, you seem to have it in for everyone.

donegaLroad

realdanbreen wrote: »

Wow! Is the purpose of your post to highlight the fact that you spoke to a lady in Alaska this morning?

nope... if parts of US resemble the 3rd world, then we are not doing too badly in Ireland.. especially when we are told that the US is considered the world's biggest economic super-power.

That is what I was trying to say.



ps. I didn't speak to her in Alaska... she is visiting Ireland at the moment.

Mesrine65

dont bother wrote: »

anyone i know or have met from Tipp is backwards, and a bigot, in every respect.

You've a lot in common so :rolleyes: :P

UCDVet

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Well in fairness, since religious, civil & inter-racial marriage is legal for straight couples it'd surely be a bit redundant to campaign for it?

Unless you want a vote on straight marriage too? Would you feel it was closer to equality if you could vote NO to opposite sex marriage?



California passed same-sex marriage and the No campaign undid it a month later. It took another 5 years to pass same-sex marriage again.
If a Political Party in Ireland wanted to have another referendum, they could. Since most of our politicians are Centre and not Right Wing, it's unlikely.

I don't necessarily think that all Irish politicians are pro-same sex marriage, however I do believe many are not strongly opposed either. There's little political appetite for a re-run on the no side.

You're implying that 'everyone' who could marry is limited to the groups you've mentioned. I gave examples of groups who, even if the same sex deal passes, will not be able to legally marry.

Polygamous marriage will still be illegal in Ireland.
Incestuous marriage will still be illegal in Ireland.

If we're going to talk about 'EVERYONE' being able to marry whomever they want, it would need to include those groups. The only truly equitable approach to marriage is to allow any consenting adults to marry any other consenting adults. Any limits or restrictions on that is nothing more than people attempting to legislate morality.

I support gay marriage, because, ya know, consenting adults. But I find it offensive that so many gay marriage supporters are pretending this vote will be 'for everyone' - it clearly isn't. We're just removing one of several restrictions we currently have on marriage.

RonanP77

realdanbreen wrote:

Its worse than the Gaza strip here in Tipp. We are hemmed in by 8 hurling counties all of whom hate us but hey! we thrive on it and it makes us tough salt of the earth folk.

I don't recall ever being there and I don't know anything about hurling but I'm sure you're all a lovely bunch.

RonanP77

UCDVet wrote:

Polygamous marriage will still be illegal in Ireland. Incestuous marriage will still be illegal in Ireland.

Hang on a minute, I just agreed with my wife that I'd bring my cousin into the family as my second wife if the yes vote passes. You're telling me that I have to cancel those plans regardless of how the vote goes?

I might just stay at home and not bother voting so.

SpaceTime

I don't think you can really make sweeping statements about "rural Ireland" some of it is conservative, some of it isn't.

There were some very negative responses to #MarRef campaigners in a few notoriously conservative parts of Dublin too.

We'll have a very good idea of which bits of Ireland are deeply conservative and which aren't tomorrow though.

The interesting bit though is that as a marketing professional, I will be drawing all sorts of conclusions about consumer behaviour towards new services, products etc form this and I'm sure plenty of my colleagues will too in other areas of business.

This is an incredibly interesting snapshot into Ireland's attitudes.

I'm not saying this as a political thing or in favour of a "yes" vote, but deeply conservative places will tend to be the same places that don't try new products, don't spend money on high speed internet etc etc..

It's just a really helpful map of where your "early adopters" and "laggards" actually live

Fear of change tends to mean unlikely to try new things, resistant to spending money etc etc etc.

Sorry to say this, but if you've ****e broadband in your area or find yourself at the bottom of rollout lists of various services, chain stores not coming to your area until the very end etc etc in a few months and you all voted no.. this may actually be a factor lol

I'll be busy correlating this data to all sorts of other stuff on Monday :P

Again, this isn't in any way an attempt to coerce people to vote one way or the other. It's just basic, economic reality. You're either conservative or you're an innovative, try everything type of person. This poll just helps us to map that in vivid detail.

Obviously you can track this from other behaviours and market research too, but it will be absolutely fascinating to match up this new data to existing data on various areas.

(evil grin)

meeeeh

What marketing professional would forget about density of population or availability of services. I agree that more conservative spenders are also probably more conservative in their political beliefs. But I would think that anyone who judges Ireland on the basis of speedKer internet uptake doesn't actually know the country.

SpaceTime

meeeeh wrote: »

What marketing professional would forget about density of population or availability of services. I agree that more conservative spenders are also probably more conservative in their political beliefs. But I would think that anyone who judges Ireland on the basis of speedKer internet uptake doesn't actually know the country.

Don't worry, that'll be included - it's just a fascinating reflection of attitudes though

It's genuinely going to be very interesting to map it out and link it to other data.

What I'm saying is if you've deeply conservative areas the likelihood is you'll get lower service spend on many things - conservatism and late adoption of new ideas and new products go hand in hand usually.

It works both ways though with media access products in particular.

Could definitely be an element of lack of access to Internet and TV access prolonging conservative attitudes too.

I've always thought there's a strong correlation between remote areas historical lack of television services other than RTE and conservative views.

Sky and Free to Air satellite opened up a whole world that was available to most urban areas since the 1960s and certainly 80s.

That divide is now mostly gone.

Broadband access may well be another urban/rural communications divide that's playing out in terms of attitudes.

It's easy to forget just how cut off some rural areas here were as late as the 1990s - their only view of the world was via the rather narrow focus of RTÉ TV

RTE certainly until the 1990s was probably amongst the most conservative state broadcasters in the western world. It's changed enormously over the last few decades.

BTW - I'm not just talking about rural areas as being conservative - I was saying in the post above that you can't just make sweeping statements. That's why this poll is going to be so interesting from a snapshot of opinions point of view.

I think people jump to conclusions based on a hunch here too much. Rural Ireland has plenty of bright and liberal spots and parts of middle class Dublin can be very conservative. There were some anecdotal accounts of very negative reactions to Yes canvassers in Glasnevin for example, while really positive reactions in Finglas.

I get a bit sick of the "Dublin" vs "Down the country" attitude though. It's just lazy stereotyping and sometimes even throws other large urban areas into "Down the country"

meeeeh

I never worked in marketing but did study it and found data analysis the most interesting bit. My criticism about using quality of broadband as a measure. Broadband stats will more likely tell you weather area has a lot of one off housing than how conservative or liberal it is. In the same way it is ridiculous ignoring the size of the town and proximity of regional centres to the availability of shops. I just think you are simplifying a bit and ignoring density of population which is uncharacteristically low for Europe and also strongly skewed because of the size of Dublin.

Do I believe that yes vote will be higher in more urban areas. I do. Do I think that colerates to the proximity of shopping centres and broadband? I think it would be very hard to draw that conclusion. For example some of the more affluent areas with good services seem to be also more conservative. I just think there are a lot more important demographic factors that influence political opinions and shopping habits.

SpaceTime

I'm not using quality of broadband as a measure nor did i suggest using it.

What I said is that it's you may find a link between places companies opt to invest heavily in and early adopter / non conservative tendencies and that may well be reflected in voting patterns.

Being a conservative backwater doesn't tend to drive interest in lashing in investment.

Low density open minded places are more likely to want services that open them up to he world. Closed minded places are more likely to focus on all the negatives of the Internet and think it's "filth" that they wouldn't want in their house. I've encountered this attitude first hand a few times!

UCDVet

RonanP77 wrote: »

Hang on a minute, I just agreed with my wife that I'd bring my cousin into the family as my second wife if the yes vote passes. You're telling me that I have to cancel those plans regardless of how the vote goes?

I might just stay at home and not bother voting so.

Vote or not vote as you see fit - but yes, that's what I'm telling you. If you support same-sex marriage in Ireland, you're still supporting an antiquated, judgmental, system that makes illegal activities between consenting adults.

I see this as a great time for us to, ya know, realize that our laws don't make sense, and *fix them*. It's a shame that everyone is so short sighted. It's always this slow battle, one small group at a time, instead of just doing the right thing and passing a law that makes sense, for everyone.

Now, I don't have a problem with that.....except....when I see all these 'Yes' campaigners and supports promoting their cause as 'Equality for everyone'. Because, that's not what it's about. It's about removing *one* limiting condition from the laws we have.

Same sex marriage is a pretty popular thing now, with a lot of support. Laws should be there to protect the minority/edge cases that most of society would be tempted to force into conformity. It's easy to support same sex marriage now, it's mainstream, it's popular. Where was the support in 1970?

Same deal with incest and polygamy. All of the same 'eww, but that's not normal' applies to people who don't agree with it. And that's fine, I think a lot of stuff is 'ewww gross'. Nothing wrong with that. But the *law* should protect those people who want those lifestyles.

So yeah, I'm pro-same sex marriage, but I'm disappointed with their goal of slightly modifying things instead of just making it all make sense.

realdanbreen

SpaceTime wrote: »

I don't think you can really make sweeping statements about "rural Ireland" some of it is conservative, some of it isn't.

There were some very negative responses to #MarRef campaigners in a few notoriously conservative parts of Dublin too.

We'll have a very good idea of which bits of Ireland are deeply conservative and which aren't tomorrow though.

The interesting bit though is that as a marketing professional, I will be drawing all sorts of conclusions about consumer behaviour towards new services, products etc form this and I'm sure plenty of my colleagues will too in other areas of business.

This is an incredibly interesting snapshot into Ireland's attitudes.

I'm not saying this as a political thing or in favour of a "yes" vote, but deeply conservative places will tend to be the same places that don't try new products, don't spend money on high speed internet etc etc..

It's just a really helpful map of where your "early adopters" and "laggards" actually live

Fear of change tends to mean unlikely to try new things, resistant to spending money etc etc etc.

Sorry to say this, but if you've ****e broadband in your area or find yourself at the bottom of rollout lists of various services, chain stores not coming to your area until the very end etc etc in a few months and you all voted no.. this may actually be a factor lol

I'll be busy correlating this data to all sorts of other stuff on Monday :P

Again, this isn't in any way an attempt to coerce people to vote one way or the other. It's just basic, economic reality. You're either conservative or you're an innovative, try everything type of person. This poll just helps us to map that in vivid detail.

Obviously you can track this from other behaviours and market research too, but it will be absolutely fascinating to match up this new data to existing data on various areas.

(evil grin)

I would say that you can be busy 'correlating data' till the cows come home and at the end of the day us backward culchies will still end up living in areas with less crime,lower accommodation costs,cheaper alcohol, lower fuel costs,lower car insurance,house insurance, no traffic jams,neighbours we know etc etc. BTW you can't go for a stroll around my area without tripping over fibreoptic cable , highest broadband speeds in the country(one of the perks of having a world class stud farm nearby)

SpaceTime

realdanbreen wrote: »

I would say that you can be busy 'correlating data' till the cows come home and at the end of the day us backward culchies will still end up living in areas with less crime,lower accommodation costs,cheaper alcohol, lower fuel costs,lower car insurance,house insurance, no traffic jams,neighbours we know etc etc. BTW you can't go for a stroll around my area without tripping over fibreoptic cable , highest broadband speeds in the country(one of the perks of having a world class stud farm nearby)

When did I ever say that your area's backwards though?

I said "I don't think you can really make sweeping statements about "rural Ireland" some of it is conservative, some of it isn't.
There were some very negative responses to #MarRef campaigners in a few notoriously conservative parts of Dublin too.
We'll have a very good idea of which bits of Ireland are deeply conservative and which aren't tomorrow though.
"

I didn't say anything about the countryside being backwards, I just said it will be really interesting to see which areas of IRELAND (country, city or anywhere else) are voting no and to link that to other data.

It's genuinely a huge opportunity to take a snapshot of Irish attitudes on a single issue, that is fundamentally apolitical and more about conservative values vs liberal values.

An election tells you none of that as Irish people don't really vote on left vs right grounds. They vote on a raft of personalities, loyalties etc and the parties are almost all a mishmash of centrist policies.

This referendum will show you a map, very similar to what you see in the US with Red vs Blue states.

This is actually the first time that any country's had a referendum on this topic, so it's pretty unique.

Like it or not, the results of this will inform a lot of political decisions, marketing decisions and hopefully will show a very different side of Ireland. I've my fingers crossed for a huge Yes on this.

I've a feeling it may also give the Government and politics in general a lot of backbone to finally deal with other issues that may have been hugely controversial decades ago and possibly aren't now.

wakka12

I think after hearing early tally results from rural parts of western counties we can safely say that rural ireland is not anyway near as backwards as people say

niallo27

wakka12 wrote: »

I think after hearing early tally results from rural parts of western counties we can safely say that rural ireland is not anyway near as backwards as people say

Well cities running at 70-30 while rural is 55-45 so there is a big difference.

Free Hat

niallo27 wrote: »

Well cities running at 70-30 while rural is 55-45 so there is a big difference.

Could possibly attribute some of that to the average age also. I would imagine that it is higher in rural areas as younger people must move to cities to work. I might be wrong about that mind.

niallo27

Free Hat wrote: »

Could possibly attribute some of that to the average age also. I would imagine that it is higher in rural areas as younger people must move to cities to work. I might be wrong about that mind.

No your spot on I would say.