Star Wars: Rogue One *spoilers from post 1195*

silverharp

the Fin character was a bit racist? a white guy gave him his name and he works in sanitation :pac: jokes aside , are all these films catering to the same age group? Star Wars is written so that you can bring an 8 year old to them? it seems likely that there have to be light moments thrown in?

david75

ROGUE ONE, according to one of my guys, as prequel-ly as a prequel can get, leading up to 10 minutes before A NEW HOPE begins.Tone matters.


Got that off Twitter. Also reshootS focusing on a very important character.



Tying them Together in thinking Vader preparing for boarding Tantive?

Tony EH

eviltimeban wrote: »

Yes Finn's character was not what we expected from a Stormtrooper. But then again, what do we know about "off duty" Stormtroopers? Nothing. Do they get to kick back in the canteen and drink a beer or have lunch or play games?

Remember in ANH, when the two Stormtroopers were chatting away while Obi-wan was disabling the tractor beam? Maybe they are normal guys. The non-clone ones anyway.

Yeh, but the classic Imperials were people who enlisted for whatever reason. Guys who applied to the Imperial Academy to join up and "see the galaxy" as it were, just like Luke was going to do. So, their yap in 'Star Wars' while on patrol is fine. They're an army of regulars, just like any modern army.

These new "stormtroopers" are shanghaied as kids and forced to serve in this New Order regime. They know nothing else but the duties they serve. It's hard to believe that a clown like Finn wouldn't have been weeded out long before he fucked up his first combat mission. It also begs the question what the hell was he doing for 20 years before his freak out on Jakku?

The whole scenario is as dumb as a brick to be honest and it would have been much, much better if he was just an enlisted man who's sense of adventure took him in a woefully wrong direction.

eviltimeban wrote: »

Perhaps it was perfectly logical for Finn to be like that. They aren't robots, or automatons. They are trained in combat, sure. But perhaps his wide eyed innocence comes from that fact that he's never been away from the First Order, so everything he's seeing and experiencing is brand new. You know, like a child would be.

This is the problem with Finn though. They ARE automatons. They're conditioned to be so, from a very young age. Finn is in his mid 20's and has been subject to that conditioning for most of that time. Frankly, that character should be terribly conflicted as his whole world has fallen apart. Instead he's a clown.

It's a badly written character, with a focus on having some comic relief, instead of someone that actually made sense.

Brian?

Tony EH wrote: »

Yeh, but the classic Imperials were people who enlisted for whatever reason. Guys who applied to the Imperial Academy to join up and "see the galaxy" as it were, just like Luke was going to do. So, their yap in 'Star Wars' while on patrol is fine. They're an army of regulars, just like any modern army.

These new "stormtroopers" are shanghaied as kids and forced to serve in this New Order regime. They know nothing else but the duties they serve. It's hard to believe that a clown like Finn wouldn't have been weeded out long before he fucked up his first combat mission. It also begs the question what the hell was he doing for 20 years before his freak out on Jakku?

The whole scenario is as dumb as a brick to be honest and it would have been much, much better if he was just an enlisted man who's sense of adventure took him in a woefully wrong direction.



This is the problem with Finn though. They ARE automatons. They're conditioned to be so, from a very young age. Finn is in his mid 20's and has been subject to that conditioning for most of that time. Frankly, that character should be terribly conflicted as his whole world has fallen apart. Instead he's a clown.

It's a badly written character, with a focus on having some comic relief, instead of someone that actually made sense.

I agree with all of this. But, the whole Star Wars series is riddled with inconsistentsies. Finn's behaviour ranks fairly low on the "gaping plot hole" scale. I could never enjoy Star Wars until recently, when I stopped caring if it made sense and just enjoyed it with my kids.

Tony EH

silverharp wrote: »

Star Wars is written so that you can bring an 8 year old to them? it seems likely that there have to be light moments thrown in?

Why?

What 8 year old gives a fuck about comic relief?

I keep hearing this stuff repeated and it makes no real sense. There's a difference between "fun" and "funny". Something doesn't have to be "light" in order to be fun.

There actually isn't much "funny" in the original 'Star Wars', but it's still a "fun" film. However, we see a whole ship get slaughtered, someone get choked to death, somebody have their arm cut off, poor Greedo blasted in the balls, a whole planet of billions get blown up, etc.

Off the top of my head, the only overtly effort at "funny" that I can remember in 'Star Wars' was when Chewbacca roars at the mouse droid and he does an about face and buggers off. Most other things are wry one liners from Han Solo or character quirks from C3PO and R2D2. But there's little in the way of actual comic relief going on.

Something as adventurous as Star Wars doesn't need comic relief and when filmmakers try to put it in it can lessen the whole effort.

I'm looking at you Jar Jar Binks. :mad:

silverharp

Tony EH wrote: »

Why?

What 8 year old gives a fuck about comic relief?

I keep hearing this stuff repeated and it makes no real sense. There's a difference between "fun" and "funny". Something doesn't have to be "light" in order to be fun.

There actually isn't much "funny" in the original 'Star Wars', but it's still a "fun" film. However, we see a whole ship get slaughtered, someone get choked to death, somebody have their arm cut off, poor Greedo blasted in the balls, a whole planet of billions get blown up, etc.

Off the top of my head, the only overtly effort at "funny" that I can remember in 'Star Wars' was when Chewbacca roars at the mouse droid and he does an about face and buggers off. Most other things are wry one liners from Han Solo or character quirks from C3PO and R2D2. But there's little in the way of actual comic relief going on.

Something as adventurous as Star Wars doesn't need comic relief and when filmmakers try to put it in it can lessen the whole effort.

I'm looking at you Jar Jar Binks. :mad:

still you have humour in star wars films that you wouldn't see in the Star Trek universe. The Ewok stuff for instance, whether they threw the stuff in for kids or just the style of the movie I cant say, probably more the latter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm1OaKO_fzw

Tony EH

Brian? wrote: »

I agree with all of this. But, the whole Star Wars series is riddled with inconsistentsies. Finn's behaviour ranks fairly low on the "gaping plot hole" scale. I could never enjoy Star Wars until recently, when I stopped caring if it made sense and just enjoyed it with my kids.

You can enjoy something on many levels, of course. It's entirely possible to kick back and simply watch the kids enjoy something. It is, of course, far more important than dissecting any piece of entertainment.

But, as for Star Wars making sense, I think the prequel disasters have an awful lot to do with destroying the "sense" that Star Wars made.

To me, the original films do make a certain amount of sense. Sure, the Skywalker family issues being written as an afterthought created some obsticles to that sense. But it still made a sense of some sort. It didn't totally trample on what came before.

The prequels go a long way to diminishing that sense, because they abandon a lot of what was already established in the series. The original films today (and series as a whole) make a lot less sense, because of all the nonsense that Lucas threw into the prequels.

Also, I don't think Finn is a "plot hole" as such. I just thinks he's unnecessary comic relief in a film franchise that doesn't actually need any comic relief. Would 'The Force Awakens' have lost anything at all if Finn was a more serious character, befitting of the world he inhabited and the history his character was supposed to have had?

Tony EH

silverharp wrote: »

still you have humour in star wars films that you wouldn't see in the Star Trek universe. The Ewok stuff for instance, whether they threw the stuff in for kids or just the style of the movie I cant say, probably more the latter

'Return of the Jedi' is where the rot sets in.

There's a reason why it's the worst of the original trilogy and it begins with an E, ends in a K and has an O and a W in the middle.

BTW, they were originally going to be Wookies.

eviltimeban

Tony EH wrote: »

Would 'The Force Awakens' have lost anything at all if Finn was a more serious character, befitting of the world he inhabited and the history his character was supposed to have had?

Probably not, but it wouldn't have been as enjoyable.

eviltimeban

Tony EH wrote: »

Frankly, that character should be terribly conflicted as his whole world has fallen apart. Instead he's a clown.

Maybe that was his way of dealing with it. Maybe they were trained to be mentally strong. Maybe there were others who were like him, or thought the same way, and he was conflicted BEFORE his first mission. We just don't know. We should just take his character the way it is. Why is Rey the way she is? Why does Poe wisecrack with Kylo Ren in the face of certain death?

Tony EH

Rey is quite badly written too, if I'm honest. Waaay too good at too many things that her 19 years wouldn't allow and there's not one moment of failure for her. Poe is only there for a few minutes and makes one wry (Han Solo like) quip. But, he's hardly a goofball like Finn.

Maybe the next film will toughen things up a bit.

johnny_ultimate

Tony EH wrote: »

Rey is quite badly written too, if I'm honest. Waaay too good at too many things that her 19 years wouldn't allow and there's not one moment of failure for her. Poe is only there for a few minutes and makes one wry (Han Solo like) quip. But, he's hardly a goofball like Finn.

Maybe the next film will toughen things up a bit.

Except for when she's captured by Kylo Ren and the First Order :pac:

Tony EH

Which she simply walks away from.

"You'll losen these straps and let me go"

"Wow...this Jedi stuff is easy!!!"

TonyCliftonEsq

I think it will make a lot more sense when Rey's backstory is fleshed out.

No way in hell is she just a random nobody. I believe she is of the Skywalker lineage and has had Jedi training but her mind got wiped, possibly by Luke.

Myrddin

Tony EH wrote: »

Rey is quite badly written too, if I'm honest. Waaay too good at too many things that her 19 years wouldn't allow and there's not one moment of failure for her.

It's almost as if she was able to repair droids, bullseye womprats in a T16, predict where a training turret will shoot, break someone out of the most heavily secured complex in the galaxy, fly a rebel fighter X-Wing, and then destroy that complex with a single shot without a targeting computer....:D

eviltimeban

We're talking about TFA again.

Sad Professor

Not sure if this was mentioned before everyone forgot what thread they were in, but Slashfilm ran a rumour claiming that 40 percent of the film will be reshot under the supervision of McQuarrie, which McQuarrie has denied:

If there are any reshoots on Rogue One, I’m not supervising them. For any outlet to say so is not only wrong, it’s irresponsible. Gareth Edwards is a talented filmmaker who deserves the benefit of the doubt. Making a film – let alone a Star Wars chapter – is hard enough without the internet trying to deliberately downgrade one’s years of hard work. Who does that even serve? Let him make his movie in peace.

This would seem to confirm that McQuarrie is involved, though.

david75

Here's what I found regarding the reshoots. It's actually a bit alarming. Reshooting 40% of the film??

Some crew initially heard J.J. Abrams was supervising the reshoots.
Gareth Edwards is doing the reshoots himself but with a partner, Christopher McQuarrie.
Christopher McQuarrie, the final writer on Rogue One will be working extensively with Edwards on set to make sure they’re on the “same page” with the most recent draft of the film.
Christopher McQuarrie’s draft of Rogue One: A Star Wars Story was considered superior to the film they shot previously.
It was not Edwards’ fault as McQuarrie’s draft wasn’t completed when much of the film was shot and revisions kept coming in that made the film feel uneven.
32 sets have been recreated for the reshoot.
The crew expects they are reshooting 40% of the film.
They are working 6 days a week for 8 weeks.

When the movie began filming there was a lot of talk that the budget had been greatly reduced slightly before shooting meaning, more CGI would be needed. Now it looks like the movie is going to cost what it was supposed to cost from the start. The quality of the film wasn’t bad, it just needs to be better and all involved are happy to make that happen.

Tony EH

Myrddin wrote: »

It's almost as if she was able to repair droids, bullseye womprats in a T16, predict where a training turret will shoot, break someone out of the most heavily secured complex in the galaxy, fly a rebel fighter X-Wing, and then destroy that complex with a single shot without a targeting computer....:D

Yeh, yeh...heard it all before.

At least two of those are very reasonable. Why wouldn't repairing droids on a farm that uses such machinery be weird? I know 20 year olds that can repair tractors.

Plus him being a good pilot, because he actually owns something that needs piloting (T16) that's made by the same manufacturer that produces the X Wing sounds fine too. Plenty of good 20 year old pilots in real life.

He got fucked up by the training ball the first time around, til Obi Wan guided him with his own knowledge.

He had help breaking Leia out of the Death Star and was allowed to escape to be used as a beacon by Vader to find the rebel base.

Lucky shot blows up Death Star.

Rey goes from orphan nobody who thinks Luke Skywalker and the Jedi are a myth (WTF???????) to super Jedi in one easy step.

The attempts the couple Rey's ridiculous abilities in 'The Force Awakens' with Luke in 'Star Wars' doesn't really wash.

And for the record, I actually like Rey. But she's still badly written, like 'The Force Awakens' in general.

Tony EH

Sad Professor wrote: »

Not sure if this was mentioned before everyone forgot what thread they were in, but Slashfilm ran a rumour claiming that 40 percent of the film

If that's true, then that's some serious buscuits going on there. I'd love to know why the reshoots were ordered and what type of film they want to emulate this time.

Zubeneschamali

Tony EH wrote: »

Lucky shot blows up Death Star.

In my experience, there's no such thing as luck.

Tony EH

It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

eviltimeban

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kids.

Falthyron

I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything.

Wedwood

Watch your mouth kid or you're gonna find yourself floating home !

J Mysterio

Bunch of half witted, scruffy looking, nerfherders in here.

eviltimeban

Laugh it up, fuzzball!

Ok we better stop.

david75

I care

meep

J Mysterio wrote: »

Bunch of half witted, scruffy looking, nerfherders in here.

Who's scruffy looking?!

Falthyron

meep wrote: »

Who's scruffy looking?!

Shut him up, or shut him down!