Star Wars: Rogue One *spoilers from post 1195*

homerun_homer

Tony EH wrote: »

Then that was a bad cut to make and directly leading to the why the fuck should I care about these people as they get blown to pieces from a hyper space laser.

The scene didn't even make it to the DVD. The cut was also made as it wasn't as good an entrance into the movie for Leia. It would have lessened the effect of her arrival when the resistance saves the gang.

TerrorFirmer

I agree, nobody was looking for a 'Phantom Menance' level of political absurdity but the setup in TFA was done surprisingly badly. It was actually closer to a reboot than a sequel with the confusing political landscape -all it would have taken was a few minutes of additional footage to outline the lay of the land, as it were. But instead we get landed with the familiar political landscape of A New Hope with zero context or explanation as to how the Galaxy arrived at this point after ROTJ.

That was hands down my biggest gripe with the film at the time. About 5 minutes of footage would have cleared it all up - I believe the book does feature all these scenes and make it a more coherent follow on to the end of ROTJ, but that's not much good to most people. George Lucas is not a good film maker but he's a good galaxy creator, which was sorely lacking in TFA.

If you actually consider TFA as an 'alternate history' take on Star Wars it almost works better - it's basically the powerful empire versus the weak rebellion, with some random planets in between getting blown up....for some reason. It's 120 minutes of individually great scenes ham stringed by a confusing, muddled and poor overall narrative.

Doesn't make it a bad film or anything close, it has a lot going for it, but I think it's the fact that these issues are so small and could have so easily been resolved to turn a good film into a stellar one which makes them most irritating.

The prequels don't suffer from this in my view because they're fundamentally flawed in almost every perceivable way.

Tony EH

SnakePlissken wrote: »

The Force Awakens has grossed over 2 billion.. But I'm sure the film-makers will be devastated that their cut wasn't to your standards

Box office has never been an indication of a good film.

Tony EH

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I agree, nobody was looking for a 'Phantom Menance' level of political absurdity but the setup in TFA was done surprisingly badly. It was actually closer to a reboot than a sequel with the confusing political landscape -all it would have taken was a few minutes of additional footage to outline the lay of the land, as it were. But instead we get landed with the familiar political landscape of A New Hope with zero context or explanation as to how the Galaxy arrived at this point after ROTJ.

That was hands down my biggest gripe with the film at the time. About 5 minutes of footage would have cleared it all up - I believe the book does feature all these scenes and make it a more coherent follow on to the end of ROTJ, but that's not much good to most people. George Lucas is not a good film maker but he's a good galaxy creator, which was sorely lacking in TFA.

If you actually consider TFA as an 'alternate history' take on Star Wars it almost works better - it's basically the powerful empire versus the weak rebellion, with some random planets in between getting blown up....for some reason. It's 120 minutes of individually great scenes ham stringed by a confusing, muddled and poor overall narrative.

Doesn't make it a bad film or anything close, it has a lot going for it, but I think it's the fact that these issues are so small and could have so easily been resolved to turn a good film into a stellar one which makes them most irritating.

The prequels don't suffer from this in my view because they're fundamentally flawed in almost every perceivable way.

The political sections of the prequels are the least of its problems TBH. I don't think I was ever that bothered by them. Not in a major way, anyway. They were certainly over done to a degree, but it was just one nail in a million for that particular coffin.

If David is right and we get a fleshed out scenario in VIII, then it might go some way to address the situational vacuum that exists at present, but yes, a few minutes with Leia giving some explanation of why who is against who and why the Republic (who fought against an Empire for power) doesn't give a fuck might have benefited the film.

Agree with you on "galaxy creation". There was nothing created for 'The Force Awakens', absolutely nothing. Even the planets were riffs on what came before.

david75

Listening to a podcast yesterday and apparently JJ had Disney keep actors set builder and *everything* ready and on payroll for two whole years but the editing process, they were called back repeatedly right up to the release day. The guy telling the story didn't say he fought with Disney at all but there were endless different cuts of the film and editing process was a constant procession of changes.

I'm happy with the outcome overall. Two biggest gripes. It should have been phasma fighting Finn at mazs castle. And Han and Kylo should have had some interaction. Even Han calling him across the battlefield, to lend weight later to the outcome of their story.

*bonus gripe- Leia should have hugged chewie after that happening. But apparently it's wookie custom to not show any weakness or grief publicly. Even with loved ones until after a certain time has passed. The more you know.


Other than that. Force awakens is top tier Star Wars for me.


Have we ranked them here?

It's changes all the time but I'll go
empire
Force awakens/A new hope (interchangeable constantly)
Jedi




Revenge of the sith





End of list nothing else exists.

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

Listening to a podcast yesterday and apparently JJ had Disney keep actors set builder and *everything* ready and on payroll for two whole years but the editing process, they were called back repeatedly right up to the release day. The guy telling the story didn't say he fought with Disney at all but there were endless different cuts of the film and editing process was a constant procession of changes.

As far as I know, Abrams has ruled out a directors cut or extended edition for 'The Force Awakens', so unless someone at Disney over rules that, the version we get is the version we got, as it were.

david75 wrote: »

I'm happy with the outcome overall. Two biggest gripes. It should have been phasma fighting Finn at mazs castle. And Han and Kylo should have had some interaction. Even Han calling him across the battlefield, to lend weight later to the outcome of their story.

*bonus gripe- Leia should have hugged chewie after that happening. But apparently it's wookie custom to not show any weakness or grief publicly. Even with loved ones until after a certain time has passed. The more you know.

Well, I'd certainly have more gripes than you on it, but yeh, that Phasma/Finn off would have made for a better scene, than simple having TR-8R appear out of nowhere. That scene was as dumb as a bag of bricks.



The Chewie/Leia thing I never even noticed, until someone pointed it out and I still don't even really care that much. 'The Force Awakens' has bigger problems.

Something that will bug the shit out of me for VIII, is that Phasma is returning. That better be some smooth ass writing there, for me change mu mind that that is anything but a jip.

As far as I'm concerned, she should be dead.

BTW, I've also heard that Hux is back too. :rolleyes:

Did anyone actually die on that fecking star killer nonsense, other than Han Solo?

david75 wrote: »

End of list nothing else exists.

LOL...it's all been a bad dream.

SnakePlissken

Tony EH wrote: »

Box office has never been an indication of a good film.

Studios make movies for one purpose and one purpose only; money. That TFA has grossed so highly completely vindicates the final cut, to hold personal misgivings about what was put on screen is of course valid, but to claim they made a mistake in excising the political backstory in order to maintain pace is misjudged.

Tony EH

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Studios make movies for one purpose and one purpose only; money.

You don't need to tell me any of this.

SnakePlissken wrote: »

That TFA has grossed so highly completely vindicates the final cut, to hold personal misgivings about what was put on screen is of course valid, but to claim they made a mistake in excising the political backstory in order to maintain pace is misjudged.

Impossible to say, as the scene isn't present.

SnakePlissken

Tony EH wrote: »

Impossible to say, as the scene isn't present.

I think I'll err on giving the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt that their cut would not have benefitted with the addition of these scenes.

david75

I'll give this much to lucasfilm and Disney. They are obviously answerable to share holders and therefore money ultimately is the goal. But they're treating this whole brand wth the utmost care and attention. For now at least. And they're listening to what fans want too. It won't be a thing where they just knock them out for a quick buck (as they do with a lot of their titles, releasing bogey knock off straight to DVD follow ons to a lot of their established titles).

They know this a golden goose in perpetuity and to feed it right and keep it top quality all the way, it'll never stop making them money.

There will eventually be a 'crap' film. Even if R1 makes half what FA made(unlikely) you'll have bad click bait journalism calling it a failure in relative terms.


Episode 8 won't make as much as FA either. But it won't be a concern for them if they just keep adding quality content and stories. I love how they're weaving all the books and comics into and through each other. It's all been great so far.


Next up. Obi Wan stand alone

homerun_homer

I have to say I am sick of people who initially said they loved the movie to now trying to sh!t on it. Yes, it's like A New Hope; call it a remake or rip off, but they did a mighty successful job of bringing in likable new characters, a great bad guy, BB8, brilliant action/adventure scenes and a classic Star Wars tone. It made so many people feel like a kid again. They laid a familiar ground (too familiar to some now) so they can move forward and be adventurous.

I wouldn't be surprised if people walk out of VIII not sure if they liked it and then later saying it's one of their favourite SW movies. It sounds like Rhian is trying something new and different and that's great. If that happened with VII then there would have been uproar. The franchise needed to get fans back in love with the world, much of which was lost in the prequels. People need to chill and just be thankful that the film was as lovable, enjoyable, and fun as it was. It would have been so easy for JJ and Disney to drop the ball on it.

Disney has given a lot of respect to the filmmakers and fans and are not rushing in with each movie. Sure, they want to make money and keep making the most money they can with every bit of the franchise, but as long as they respect it, which they have done, then they can't be all that bad.

david75 wrote: »

Listening to a podcast yesterday and apparently JJ had Disney keep actors set builder and *everything* ready and on payroll for two whole years but the editing process, they were called back repeatedly right up to the release day. The guy telling the story didn't say he fought with Disney at all but there were endless different cuts of the film and editing process was a constant procession of changes.

Curious as to what podcast? I wouldn't mind giving it a listen.

david75

Rogue one run time is 2hours 13minutes

david75

homerun_homer wrote: »

I have to say I am sick of people who initially said they loved the movie to now trying to sh!t on it. Yes, it's like A New Hope; call it a remake or rip off, but they did a mighty successful job of bringing in likable new characters, a great bad guy, BB8, brilliant action/adventure scenes and a classic Star Wars tone. It made so many people feel like a kid again. They laid a familiar ground (too familiar to some now) so they can move forward and be adventurous.

I wouldn't be surprised if people walk out of VIII not sure if they liked it and then later saying it's one of their favourite SW movies. It sounds like Rhian is trying something new and different and that's great. If that happened with VII then there would have been uproar. The franchise needed to get fans back in love with the world, much of which was lost in the prequels. People need to chill and just be thankful that the film was as lovable, enjoyable, and fun as it was. It would have been so easy for JJ and Disney to drop the ball on it.

Disney has given a lot of respect to the filmmakers and fans and are not rushing in with each movie. Sure, they want to make money and keep making the most money they can with every bit of the franchise, but as long as they respect it, which they have done, then they can't be all that bad.



Curious as to what podcast? I wouldn't mind giving it a listen.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.
I *think* it's this one Ill keep looking through. I've loads of subscriptions
https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/full-sith-star-wars-news-discussions/id591644330?mt=2&i=376738791

Theboinkmaster

david75 wrote: »

Rogue one run time is 2hours 13minutes

Link?

I doubt their cut is final yet tbh so don't believe that.

david75

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Link?

I doubt their cut is final yet tbh so don't believe that.

I'm not I then hanit of making stuff up but if you insist

http://makingstarwars.net/2016/10/rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-run-time/

Tony EH

Every Star Wars film has been over the 2 hour mark, so 133 mins is not beyond a possible running time.

david75

Joss Whedon has come out and said after he saw the rogue one trailer, he wants to direct a Star Wars movie that like R1 is its own thing and unmarried to the saga.


Should Disney sack Colin Trevorrow and replace him with Whedon?
I knew that its saga but he knows Star Wars. He'd make an amazing Star Wars film.

My vote is yes immediately.

Thoughts?

pixelburp

Joss whedons power is not in directing imo. Whatever his talents as a writer, his directing is pedestrian and bland. The Avengers films looked like TV movies and his other work no better. I'm a bit sick of him anyway, wish someone else would come along and become the great God King of nerd writing.

Sad Professor

Whedon is not a fan of Empire Strikes Back or other sequels that continue a storyline, so I doubt he'd be interested. For all my reservations about Trevorrow, I don't think Whedon would do a better job than him. In fact, I reckon he'd make a balls of it. Whedon needs to stick to his own thing. I don't think he's able to negotiate the demands of big studios and ends up looking like a hack tv director.

david75

I will repeat that he said he said he wants to make a stand alone not connected to the saga

david75

Tony? Hope you see this. This is what I meant about the new Star Wars books and comics adding to the narrative and canon simply but effectively. With just one panel.
https://twitter.com/david75donovan/status/789554609601781760

pixelburp

Which is fine, but I'd rather see the standalone films embrace directors with at least some semblance of creative vision and ability than Whedons workaday, hack directing.

Sad Professor

pixelburp wrote: »

Which is fine, but I'd rather see the standalone films embrace directors with at least some semblance of creative vision and ability than Whedons workaday, hack directing.

I was just thinking the other day that Rogue One's ending will probably be a sign of what's to come and whether Disney secretly views all these standalones as potential spin-off trilogies/series. Because if they are really committed to standalone films then I can see a lot of good directors showings interest in doing one.

david75

Sad Professor wrote: »

I was just thinking the other day that Rogue One's ending will probably be a sign of what's to come and whether Disney secretly views all these standalones as potential spin-off trilogies/series. Because if they are really committed to standalone films then I can see a lot of good directors showings interest in doing one.

R1 ends ten minutes before a new hope picks up.

We're gonna see all the R1 squad get killed then Vader in the final scene battling that droid K2SO but he manages to transmit the plans but Vader takes him out then he comes onto Leias ship in a new hope he's all pissed off and angry in that first scene so final R1 scene is definitely him on a killing spree that either doesn't go to plan or he's just angry anyways

Sad Professor

david75 wrote: »

R1 ends ten minutes before a new hope picks up.

We're gonna see all the R1 squad get killed then Vader in the final scene battling that droid K2SO but he manages to transmit the plans but Vader takes him out then he comes onto Leias ship in a new hope he's all pissed off and angry in that first scene so final R1 scene is definitely him on a killing spree that either doesn't go to plan or he's just angry anyways

You think they are all going to die? Man that would be awesome! A suicide mission that's actually a suicide mission. It's almost unheard of in Hollywood cinema. Usually one person dies, maybe. I'm sceptical Disney doesn't secretly have Felicity signed up for a trilogy.

Burgo

pixelburp wrote: »

Joss whedons power is not in directing imo. Whatever his talents as a writer, his directing is pedestrian and bland. The Avengers films looked like TV movies and his other work no better. I'm a bit sick of him anyway, wish someone else would come along and become the great God King of nerd writing.

Honestly the writing for the avengers films was pretty dire too in my opinion.
The humour just felt all wrong and really out of place.

Also in related star wars news Donald Glover has officially been cast as Lando.
http://www.slashfilm.com/han-solo-donald-glover-lando-calrissian/

McLoughlin

You cant really make a sequel to Rogue One unless we get the story of how the many bothans died before Return of The Jedi

Burgo

Sad Professor wrote: »

You think they are all going to die? Man that would be awesome! A suicide mission that's actually a suicide mission. It's almost unheard of in Hollywood cinema. Usually one person dies, maybe. I'm sceptical Disney doesn't secretly have Felicity signed up for a trilogy.

I mean if they didn't die then where the heck are they for the rest of the rebellion? :P

Sad Professor

McLoughlin wrote: »

You cant really make a sequel to Rogue One unless we get the story of how the many bothans died before Return of The Jedi

Burgo wrote: »

I mean if they didn't die then where the heck are they for the rest of the rebellion? :P

The Rebellion vs Empire conflict was bigger than just Luke and his friends. What were the rebels doing post-Death Star destruction? Or post-Hoth? They could easily come up with another mission for Jyn Erso and her squad to go on that takes place in the background or even in-between the events of TESB and ROTJ.

david75

Sad Professor wrote: »

I was just thinking the other day that Rogue One's ending will probably be a sign of what's to come and whether Disney secretly views all these standalones as potential spin-off trilogies/series. Because if they are really committed to standalone films then I can see a lot of good directors showings interest in doing one.

Not really.

2022 standalone announced.

Star Wars: A Lando story - hello what have we here

Lando is a struggling entrepreneur who is forced to move his prostitution racket to a distant gas planet far away from the busiest parts of space. But also far away from the Hutts who have a huge ransom on Landos head.