Star Wars: Rogue One *spoilers from post 1195*

Burgo

homerun_homer wrote: »

In the original expanded universe

Darth Vader lived on a castle with lava waterfalls etc, it's where he spent his downtime when not on a mission for the Emperor. I guess the movie/canon universe decided to go with that influence.

Yeah I remember hearing about that, I guess we can presume it's supposed to be Mustafar

robinph wrote: »

You could have a similar looking actor have done things if you have a few years difference in the timeline, but when the timelines of the two films are just minutes apart then needed something different. A different actor would have been far more jarring to the timeline.

Yeah they used an actor for his brief cameo in ep3 and it didn't look great, honestly though I don't really think there is much you can do either way.
It's always going to look a bit strange.

McDermotX

Re: Tarkin

I was surprised how much he played in it, as it initially looked as though they would use the back to the camera/slight reflection appearance and leave it at that, but I'm glad they decided to go down the route in order to have him feature in a couple of important moments (especially with Krennic).
Is it completely flawless ? No......but there are moments when it's extraordinarily impressive and almost makes you think. But a big stumbling block is the fact that you consciously know it's CG at work. For someone not familiar, they would probably think something was off, but perhaps be fooled into thinking it's make-up is at work.
It's the eyes that give it away really, especially with Leia at the end......sometimes you can almost see life there, but not always. Still, in comparison to say Arnie's featuring in Terminator Salvation, it's an immeasurable improvement.

They could have gone the ROTS route and have an actor in silent long frame, but that would not work given how much interaction he has in the movie.

david75

If you read Catalyst it's a book about Galen and Krennic and Tarkin and it's a prologue to R1. Tarkin had to be in this. I think they did great with him. Wasn't perfect but near as could be.

homerun_homer

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I haven't read all of the replies but did anyone else think Vader's helmet looked terrible, particularly around the neck? It was as if they forgot the real one on the day of shooting and went bought one in Smyths.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I actually went home and watched the start of a New Hope in HD out of curiosity for that exact same reason, and I do agree that Vader from the chest up actually somehow looks tackier in Rogue One.

I remember reading that they were copying, to the exact detail, Vader's suit and mask from ANH for this so was surprised once the trailer landed that it looked off. It jarred me more than watching Tarkin (in amazement at how well it turned out, regardless of whether you think he should be there like that or as an actor or not at all) because it was so not like ANH. The suit I'm ok with, but the helmet was oversized, especially at the neck, and no chain (visible at least) to hold the cape together. I will get over this though since, like the makers say, you just have to assume he was using a different version of the suit as he has many. I would have preferred if it was spot on to ANH though given the details they had everywhere else.

thegreengoblin

Saw it last night in Savoy 1 and it knocked me for six. At the moment I'd say it's the best Star Wars film since Empire for me. I loved The Force Awakens but it was a little bit uneven. Maybe in time my opinion will change.

I had gone into this with expectations reined in. I had watched the trailers but I knew they wouldn't give much away and I didn't read anything about it. But I wasn't expecting Tarkin to play such a big part in it. As was mentioned above there are serious ethical questions raised about doing him as CGI. This was a very bold move but on the whole I think it just about worked. Although as was also mentioned earlier he was so distracting that I kept losing track of what was actually being said, which is never a good thing! I did think the Gold and Red leaders worked better in final battle. Were Biggs or Wedge in there did anyone notice? Thought I caught a glimpse of Biggs at one stage.

Mads Mikkelsen never lets you down and I thought Ben Mendelsohn was excellent as Krennic. It's a pity we won't see that character again, he really looked the part. Domhnall Gleeson could learn a thing or two watching Mendelsohn and how you don't have to ham it up to come across as menacing.

The reports of the reshoots didn't fill me with optimism but I don't feel the flow of the film was hampered by them. It was strange seeing so many different planets so quickly but at least the locations were named on screen, something that I suspect was done in hindsight after the reshoots to make it easier for the viewer to follow. Shame the Tie Fighter rising in front of Jyn didn't make it, though. The battle of Scariff was truly epic and it was also great to see street battles in a Star Wars film.

K-2SO was wonderful. They gave him some great lines and a superb death scene. I'm not a laugh out loud type when I'm at the cinema but that line where he told Jyn 'I'll stand with you...because Cassian made me' had me in stitches. As for Cassian I liked him although at times I found Diego Luna's accent slightly difficult to understand.

I couldn't fault Felicity Jones in this, thought she was excellent. I had fully expected her and Cassian to go out together and that final scene was nicely done.

As for CGI Leia? No need for her/it. She looked like she'd been at the drugs. I know Carrie Fisher had substance abuse problems but not when she was 20! Just have a longer shot or something.

The Vader killing scene was incredible. I've seen him do that stuff in the comics for ages now so it was great to see him do it on screen.

By the way, had anyone read the Rogue One prequel novel Catalyst by James Luceno? It's a nice appetiser for what's to come, as it focuses on the relationship between Krennic and Galen Erso and how things ended up the way they did. I'd recommend it if you like having background information filled in.

And in a film packed with classic SW references I had a good laugh at seeing our old friends from the Mos Eisley cantina, Dr Evazan and Ponda Baba, when they bumped into Jyn on the street. It's a small universe!

Going again tomorrow with my younglings and I can't wait.

thegreengoblin

thegreengoblin wrote: »

...

And in a film packed with classic SW references I had a good laugh at seeing our old friends from the Mos Eisley cantina, Dr Evazan and Ponda Baba, when they bumped into Jyn on the street. It's a small universe!

...

I like the odd easter egg but this was ridiculous. The exact same characters, saying the exact same lines. Even the retort was identical. We are getting bludgeoned by a nostalgic hammer.

McDermotX

Deleted User wrote: »

I like the odd easter egg but this was ridiculous. The exact same characters, saying the exact same lines. Even the retort was identical. We are getting bludgeoned by a nostalgic hammer.

Could have done without that alright......especially if they're going to shoehorn in the droids later on (can sort of let that one pass, but it was just unnecessary).
Take both out and you can only improve the film.

eeguy

Deleted User wrote: »

I like the odd easter egg but this was ridiculous. The exact same characters, saying the exact same lines. Even the retort was identical. We are getting bludgeoned by a nostalgic hammer.

Depends how you look at it.

Star Wars is 40 years old. Referencing a 40 year old film isn't really that bad.

Now, if you've seen the film once every few years, like myself and presumably most people here, you'd probably get sick of the amount of copy/paste stuff they used, but for most people I think they'd appreciate these nods to the past (or future, depending on which way you look at it :P )

The Nal

eeguy wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I like the odd easter egg but this was ridiculous. The exact same characters, saying the exact same lines. Even the retort was identical. We are getting bludgeoned by a nostalgic hammer.

Depends how you look at it.

Star Wars is 40 years old. Referencing a 40 year old film isn't really that bad.

Now, if you've seen the film once every few years, like myself and presumably most people here, you'd probably get sick of the amount of copy/paste stuff they used, but for most people I think they'd appreciate these nods to the past (or future, depending on which way you look at it :P )

My missus didn't notice. I doubt the row of 8 year old kids beside us did either.

McDermotX

eeguy wrote: »

Depends how you look at it.

Star Wars is 40 years old. Referencing a 40 year old film isn't really that bad.

Now, if you've seen the film once every few years, like myself and presumably most people here, you'd probably get sick of the amount of copy/paste stuff they used, but for most people I think they'd appreciate these nods to the past (or future, depending on which way you look at it :P )

To be fair though, it's a reference that only works on people more familiar with IV, so you're fitting something into a modern film directly for those fans.
It won't mean a jot to kids or anyone who last watched A New Hope back in the 70s.

It's by no means a fatal flaw or anything like that, but I'd rather stuff like that goes through a cringe-filter before making it into the final cut

in any case......it's no big deal.

PWEI

Hugh Mungus wrote: »

Lay off the crack.

Such a typical Boardies filmbuff response. If you didn't like The Force Awakens, there has to be something wrong with you.

For all the flaws the prequels had, at least it was Lucas's own ideas and vision. Unlike Abrams who had no ideas of his own and just took the best bits of the original trilogy and made an unimaginative, shameless boring Rip-off.

johnny_ultimate

The problem I had with the fan service was that it did absolutely nothing with it. The vast majority of them are delivered merely to say 'hey, remember this guy?' or 'here's a really obvious nod to something in A New Hope'. It's a symptom of Hollywood's nostalgia harvesting. One or two of the cameo appearances are fine, but there's so many here that get in the way of the film's own story, which already has enough problems with pacing and focus without entire scenes devoted to winking at fans or filling in "plot holes" that never really needed to be filled in. It further undermines Rogue One's efforts to build its own identity that isn't shackled to the past - at least with the Force Awakens, the vast majority of the callbacks were embedded in the narrative and went beyond a character showing up on screen and saying one line. Basically: Here, the throwbacks are another series of distractions in a film already full of them.

Goodshape

I thought this was alright, but I'm going to need to see it again to form an actual lasting opinion. As it is I found myself too distracted too often by the nods and winks and the uncanny valley.

I wish it wasn't but really the strongest memory I have is of Tarkin's lifeless eyes and not-quite-right complexion. They shouldn't have done that. And if they were to do it, they shouldn't have made it such a big reveal. The back turned, slow zoom, slow turn... OMG!!! IT's..... a computer game version of a character we love. :-/

And then they did the same slow reveal with Leia at the end. Did them no favours.


And I still don't get any of the hype around Gareth Edwards (director). After Godzilla and this I'm not eagerly awaiting his next film. Both were simultaneously duller and more convoluted than they should have been. Totally lost track of all the planets they were hopping around in Rouge One, and trying to figure out should I remember this one from the original films or not, because many had no real significance to this film except to show some familiar name or familiar scene.


It does have some good things going for it too though! Just, you know, always easier to point out the flaws. I certainly didn't hate it. Looking forward to seeing it again now that the 'reveals' and 'surprises' won't be as distracting.

eeguy

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Basically: Here, the throwbacks are another series of distractions in a film already full of them.

I thought Tarkin was overused. He's revealed in a reflection on a window and I'd be happy with that, or have some distance between him and the camera.
Leia should have just been a face in the distance, we didn't need a closeup and dialog.
The CG is 98% of the way there, but the 2% is still very noticeable. I think there was too much movement in the face, like they were overcompensating for something.
I did like the nod to the Rebel pilots at the end, sure why wouldn't they be in that battle.

david75

Tarkin kinda looked like Dobby the elf. Especially in the eyes


Pretty comprehensive list of Easter eggs here
https://houndstoothblog.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/rogue-one-easter-eggs/

eviltimeban

Saw it last night. I'd give it a solid 6/10. I don't need to repeat what others have said, but for the most part (i.e. the parts with the group of rebels) it didn't really feel like I was watching a Star Wars movie, just some regular by-the-numbers gritty sci-fi movie. It didn't have the same tone AT ALL, there was action but not much adventure, and very little swash buckling heroism. OK, so it was a gritty movie about a gritty moment in a war, but I would've like to have seen it done more like a spy movie, more thoughtful, rather than a plot-free war movie.

And there was no plot. It was like "hey let's steal the plans!" "OK!" "Here they are!" - pew pew pew! Especially the part where they see the

archive and say "if the plans are anywhere, that's where they'll be". And that's where they were.

I always pictured the Bothans being a little more crafty and sneaky in getting in and out with the Death Star plans, rather than having to involve

the whole rebel fleet.

The way it's presented in ANH is more like that, like it was done in secret and not many people knew about it.

Positives, the DS looked great, the

destruction of Jeddha

was done really well, and I just cream my pants over scenes with Star Destroyers in the "real world" (like crashed in the desert in TFA, or hovering menacingly

over Jeddah.

) The sheer scale of them is always impressive.

The Imperial scenes were all good. Don't get me started on uncanny valley, it was what it was and while technically amazing, they aren't quite 100% there yet. It does make one question what the limit it is. A new movie starring a CGI James Dean? Brando as Batman? :pac:

The final space battle

was good, but that was done far better at the end of ROTJ (one thing that critics of that movie forget about). Saying that I did like seeing

two star destroyers crash into each other, but would've like to have seen them crashing to the surface as well

.

As for

Vader

, from day one I'd hoped he wouldn't be in it, and I'm sort of glad he more or less had an extended cameo in this movie. The

fear from the rebels when he attacked

at the end was real, you can imagine they all thought "that's it, we're dead" as soon as he appears.

homerun_homer

eviltimeban wrote: »

I always pictured the Bothans being a little more crafty and sneaky in getting in and out with the Death Star plans, rather than having to involve

the whole rebel fleet.

They weren't Bothans. Bothans stole the plans for the 2nd Death Star. Many Bothans died to bring them those plans, how many does that make if Mon Mothma was so sad in relaying that piece of info

given what happens in Rogue One

. I'd like to think that maybe the death star#2 blasted the Bothan's planet out of it as a result of the 2nd mission.

eviltimeban

homerun_homer wrote: »

They weren't Bothans. Bothans stole the plans for the 2nd Death Star. Many Bothans died to bring them those plans, how many does that make if Mon Mothma was so sad in relaying that piece of info

given what happens in Rogue One

. I'd like to think that maybe the death star#2 blasted the Bothan's planet out of it as a result of the 2nd mission.

Oh right! Mixed up my Star Wars movies then. Maybe she was in love with a Bothan! There's a movie right there.

homerun_homer

eviltimeban wrote: »

Oh right! Mixed up my Star Wars movies then. Maybe she was in love with a Bothan! There's a movie right there.

In 40 years time and everyone will give out about how much they referenced and took from Rogue One:pac:

robinph

homerun_homer wrote: »

They weren't Bothans. Bothans stole the plans for the 2nd Death Star. Many Bothans died to bring them those plans, how many does that make if Mon Mothma was so sad in relaying that piece of info

given what happens in Rogue One

. I'd like to think that maybe the death star#2 blasted the Bothan's planet out of it as a result of the 2nd mission.

Could just be that Mon Mothma was married to a Bothan who died in getting hold of the DS2 plans.

slave1

K-2SO stole the show and it was a very solid show indeed, not too many cringy lines and overall the time flow, will look forward to rewatching on Blu-ray come April'ish.

Certainly not the worst SW flick.

Loved it, better than TFA, AOTC and TPM, on par with ROTJ and ROTS, behind ANH and ESB

I put this only better than the prequels. Thought The Force Awakens was far superior.

TerrorFirmer

The raw fear, anger, rage and power conveyed in that corridor scene is one of the most powerful scenes in the entire franchise. There are similar elements in the original trilogy (especially Jedi), albeit far less visually striking, but it's totally absent in the prequels and largely in The Force Awakens also.

TFA has plenty going for it but there's so much convincing grit and darkness in Rogue One that was sorely needed in that film.

The more I think about it I'm starting to feel I prefer Rogue One over The Force Awakens as individual experiences, though the latter remains more compelling due to the open-ended nature of the next two movies.

The Nal

Why do people feel the need to constantly rank Star Wars movies against each other?

The Nal

The Nal wrote: »

Why do people feel the need to constantly rank Star Wars movies against each other?

Why not?

david75

Yeah comparing force awakens and rogue one doesn't make any sense.

Two totally different animals. With almost nothin comparable in them.

pumpkin4life

Better than TFA but still dogshìt garbage.

"Hey remember this character from ANH? Well he's BACK! IN POG FORM!"

South Park nailed it.

It also goes down the whole "gritty dark etc" remakes of your classic movies. There's a few reasons for that trend, probably not relevant to this thread.

It's too long; needs to lose about 30 minutes or so. The CGI looks like a bit like bum. The protagonist is an angry, unlikable twat and speaks in stupid platitudes and lines like "rebellions are built on hope". The dialogue is boring and chunky. The new cast is as charismatic as a dead fish.

Hated it. And this is coming from someone who loves the original trilogy and thinks Episode III and one or two extra parts of the prequels are ok, not brilliant but not terrible either.

robinph

pumpkin4life wrote: »

...The dialogue is boring and chunky....

Have you seen any of the other Star Wars films?

thegreengoblin

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Better than TFA but still dogshìt garbage.

"Hey remember this character from ANH? Well he's BACK! IN POG FORM!"

South Park nailed it.

It also goes down the whole "gritty dark etc" remakes of your classic movies. There's a few reasons for that trend, probably not relevant to this thread.

It's too long; needs to lose about 30 minutes or so. The CGI looks like a bit like bum. The protagonist is an angry, unlikable twat and speaks in stupid platitudes and lines like "rebellions are built on hope". The dialogue is boring and chunky. The new cast is as charismatic as a dead fish.

Hated it. And this is coming from someone who loves the original trilogy and thinks Episode III and one or two extra parts of the prequels are ok, not brilliant but not terrible either.

Sounds like Anakin in the prequels.

I honestly cannot fathom how you would call Rogue One 'dogshít garbage' and then say ROTS and some other bits of the prequels are ok. In my mind, and I suspect many others, this film, and TFA, is in a different league entirely to the prequels.

For sure the dialogue in Rogue One is not exactly memorable but there was nothing in that made my toes curl. There was certainly nothing to rival such gems as 'are you an angel?' or 'have faith my love, soon things will be set right' or 'I feel dizzy. I can't breathe. I'm haunted by the kiss you should never have given me. My heart is beating, hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me'.

And then from the film you said was ok...

'You are so beautiful!'
'It's only because I'm so in love.'
'No, it's because I'm so in love with you.'
So love has blinded you?'

That's what you call dogshít garbage.

Legionn_of_Dan

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

The raw fear, anger, rage and power conveyed in that corridor scene is one of the most powerful scenes in the entire franchise.

Couldn't agree more. An absolutely fantastic scene. Overall I loved it. A few stumbling points, mainly at the start. Really loved the many easter eggs and tie ins with other star wars media.