Star Wars: Rogue One *spoilers from post 1195*

johnny_ultimate

david75 wrote: »

I imagine they'll put Obi Wans film happening almost the same time as Rogue One so the three standalones effectively end at just the same time.

I can't for a second imagine that is the case, if only because it would be such a bloody waste (also because it wouldn't make any sense). This film ends, what, hours or days before ANH? I would hope any Obi Wan film would be set years of not decades before that to have any possible creative freedom. I think we can assume, equally, that the youthful casting of the Han Solo film would see it set again years before the original trilogy.

The creative insanity of trying to set a series of standalone films immediately before A New Hope would be mind-boggling and depressing. Personally, I think several of Rogue One's flaws could be rectified by removing any subsequent films from such close proximity of existing material (less cause for lazy fan service, fewer justifications for horrible trips to the uncanny valley), and again what a waste it would be if directors were forced to stick with a narrow time period when they literally have millenia to play with. The very concept of Obi-Wan and Han Solo films is iffy enough, to be frank, so trying to fit them into an incredibly narrow remit would be idiotic.

TerrorFirmer

An Obi-Wan movie you would imagine would have to be set a few years after ROTS but considerly before A New Hope, likely revolving around the hunting down of the Jedi and their effective extinction. I don't think cinema going audiences would have any real interest in the adventures of a geriatric Obi-Wan leading up to the events of ANH.

Same for a Han Solo film, though to a lesser extent given he's relatively young in A New Hope to begin with, but I would say they'd focus on an early to mid 20's style character. I'm totally on board with an Obi Wan movie, but the Solo one doesn't sit right with me really. There's so much rich back story to explore and flesh out even in the confines of the film universe as we know it, and what Han was up to before ANH would be fairly low down on my list of interests.

Drumpot

Went to it again yesterday and really enjoyed it, as did my wife and children..

I don't have any problem with Easter eggs appearances from characters and I don't get why people get so upset about them if they don't take away from the movie. If the appearance pleases most fans of the franchise then it's a positive , not a negative.

I still feel 7/10 is a fair rating. The bit at the end makes me want to go 8/10. The fact that it enhances ANH should also be considered.

Spoilers ahead: (can't do spoiler tags on mobile). On second viewing, I loved the way Tark totally screws Krennick. Even conveniently kills him. I also love the way he didn't know of the sabotage done to the death star.

Vaders appearance was very relevant to the story despite what some think. It was the failure of krennick (stated by Tark) and rebel attack on skeriff that meant Vader had to get involved to mop up the mess.

I enjoyed the ROTS but after watching rogue one I can see how badly Lucas managed the connection of that with the OT. The newer Star Wars movies by different directors were more Star Warsie then the prequels.

This movie was very good as part of the extended universe and enhances the mythology of the wars, particularly of Vader. We knew he was ruthless but I don't think we saw him actually being as ruthless on screen (we didn't see him cut down Jedi children).

johnny_ultimate

Drumpot wrote: »

I don't have any problem with Easter eggs appearances from characters and I don't get why people get so upset about them if they don't take away from the movie. If the appearance pleases most fans of the franchise then it's a positive , not a negative.

I think those of us criticising the fan service and callbacks do believe it takes away from the film Personally I felt the regular - and sadly witless - nods got in the way of a film that already had severe pacing and tonal issues, frequently disrupting a narrative that was struggling along from the off. Its attachment to past films also got in the way of its fumbled attempts to establish its own creative identity.

And pleasing fans is rarely an ideal artistic approach - the hint is in the word 'fanatics' (and I say that as someone who would happily declare myself a fan of many films and directors) There is a reason fan fiction is almost as a rule absolutely dreadful - it's incredibly easy to throw out a bit of fan service or a cameo from a known character; it's much more challenging to please fans in a way that advances (or even just doesn't compromise) the artistic intentions, narrative and characters.

Osmosis Jones

I mean, it's not like they said "let's take out this great character building moment to put in a shot of R2D2." Didn't think there was too much gratuitous fan service myself.

johnny_ultimate

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

I mean, it's not like they said "let's take out this great character building moment to put in a shot of R2D2." Didn't think there was too much gratuitous fan service myself.

Certainly not be biggest issue with the film, think it has far more fundamental issues than a dozen or so moments where it turns to the camera to wink at the Star Wars fans in the audience. But IMO a noteworthy concern nonetheless, and as mentioned one that further emphasises the film's major tonal and pacing issues.

david75

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

An Obi-Wan movie you would imagine would have to be set a few years after ROTS but considerly before A New Hope, likely revolving around the hunting down of the Jedi and their effective extinction. I don't think cinema going audiences would have any real interest in the adventures of a geriatric Obi-Wan leading up to the events of ANH.

Same for a Han Solo film, though to a lesser extent given he's relatively young in A New Hope to begin with, but I would say they'd focus on an early to mid 20's style character. I'm totally on board with an Obi Wan movie, but the Solo one doesn't sit right with me really. There's so much rich back story to explore and flesh out even in the confines of the film universe as we know it, and what Han was up to before ANH would be fairly low down on my list of interests.

They can't go decades before with Obi Wan. He was put into the academy at 6 months old.

The Star Wars comics have 3 issues based on Obi wans time watching over Luke. That is where that film will be set. And I'm sorry but it makes perfect sense.
How is it the Lars family don't ever get bothered by Jabbas thugs for the water tax they have to pay? Etc. Obi Wan basically protects them. And he clashes with Owen Lars the whole time about it. And cos Owen won't allow him train Luke as a Jedi. This is canon by the way.


*sorry TF was meant this for the post before yours.

Jan_de_Bakker

david75 wrote: »

So be the end of the decade if you wanna watch Star Wars chronologically it'll be

1 2 3 Rogue One Han Obi Wan 4 5 6 7 8 9

Wait they are planning to make a movie about Obi Wan ??

I knew about Han Solo, but not about OWK, that will be amazing, so much potential there ...

CalamariFritti

thegreengoblin wrote: »

...K-2SO was wonderful. They gave him some great lines and a superb death scene. I'm not a laugh out loud type when I'm at the cinema but that line where he told Jyn 'I'll stand with you...because Cassian made me' had me in stitches. As for Cassian I liked him although at times I found Diego Luna's accent slightly difficult to understand.

My favourite line was when he was on about what happens if they crash into the shield or so. As in the ship will crash and we die in space. Er, actually, I won't. I can survive in space.

david75

Jan_de_Bakker wrote: »

Wait they are planning to make a movie about Obi Wan ??

I knew about Han Solo, but not about OWK, that will be amazing, so much potential there ...

That what the fanbase want. And Ewan McGregor is all on board for doing it saying he'd love to do two. Most likely being announced at Star Wars celebration coming in April in Orlando.

strandroad

Victor wrote: »

Does he actually die?

Yes it's made clear in the book -

Cassian shoots him, he doesn't die immediately but is obliterated in his own creation's fire which he has time to reflect on.

ShaneU

I thought Tarkin looked brilliant, maybe because I was watching in 3D.

david75

Re Tarkin

Tarkin having the Death Star blow up the base on scariff is so brilliant. Plays into the character and how they've established him in Rebels so well. He's not only full knowing that he's about to kill the upstart Krennic. He's willing To wipe out thousands of his own people to prevent a rebel victory. As he says to Kanan 'I know what it takes to win a war. You don't'. Brilliant

ronano

Enjoyable fair overall but felt that Jyn existed as an archetype nothing more which was disappointing. The CGI for Cushing may be the best version of its type so far but it still fails utterly at being effective, every scene i was just thinking 'jesus that's horrific' and it drew me out of every scene he was in. Why not have a different actor, fans would surely understand?. I'm not a star wars fan, i enjoyed the film, the force awakens for me had me giddy with excitement, biting my fist at the falcon reveal. I thought the battle engagements more war aspects were decent and the film did add a darker element to the star wars universe but really the film just mustered an ah tis grand.

david75

Awesome. They just released this. They're doing a masterful job of tying all these strands together.

Saw is in the second half of this season of Rebels:)

Brief_Lives

Are spoilers necessary now?
I'm just back from watching it, but I avoided this thread until now...

Excellent 3rd act... Excellent..

FunLover18

I can't remember being more bored by a film in a long time. I was actually quite looking forward to this as a film in the franchise without any familiar characters but my god it didn't have any characters at all. Instead we just get funny names each with a defining feature - orphan rebel, blind guy with faith, blind guy's friend with massive gun, pilot with goggles (WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THE GOGGLES!?), I know absolutely nothing about these characters as people which really bothered me because there really isn't a lot of plot to develop (not necessarily a criticism). The final act of this movie relies heavily on the audience bonding with these characters but we're given nothing to bond with. Genuinely surprised by the praise I've seen this movie get in general because all I saw was a wasted opportunity.

Alan Tudyk's robot was the best thing in this, and ironically, he was the only character with a personality.

eeguy

I have a set of those safety goggles in the tool box.

I have no idea why he has them. He's pilot, and no pilots wear goggles. He never even used them!!

Sudden Valley

I felt the characters in this movie were much better than those in the force unleashed. Of the rebel group only the main male lead, was weak. Felicity jones did well and Mads was excellent as always. Definitely one of the better star wars movies.

Wedwood

I thought it was a decent enough Star Wars movie, which works far better as a prequel then Episodes 1 - 3 did. Some of the nods to the original movie were delightful.

xper

Hugh Mungus wrote: »

I think you mean the death star plans...not a plan to steal the death star. That would be quite impossible given its size.

Fast and Furious: A Star Wars Story

ebbsy

Just back from it and I thought it was a bloody good film and certainly one of the better Star Wars stories.

.ak

I'm looking forward to seeing it again, which is always a good thing.

Couple of things tho I just remembered... What was with the terrible fonts for the location updates? Like something out of a tv movie for SyFy... and the Rogue One title was a horrible font as well that wasn't used anywhere else, and the music for the title sequence was horribly jarring.

Also... What's the story with loads of stuff missing from the trailers? Wasn't there dialogue in the trailer that Forest's character says that appears left out of the movie? 'Would you fight' etc? And wasn't there a scene on the radar tower when Jyn walks up to the platform only to be confronted by a TIE fighter hovering? I'm sure there's more bits missing too...

.ak

fluke wrote: »

It's nice to live in a world where they are making good Star Wars films again.

This was ace, and despite having a Death Star being the fulcrum of the plot, this was so different from previous SW entries.

Actually, just on this, I commented last night to my OH how much I enjoyed the death star in this as a 'character'. I never really like the DS in the other movies... a big fat round thing in space with a cool laser... okay it's size and the power was impressive, but I just looked lame and unthreatening IMO. In the earlier movies that didn't matter, what mattered was it's capability and that's what drove the plot.

In Rogue One you see it's power from the beginning, the scene where it blows up the city is one of the best large scale destruction scenes I've seen in a movie - proper nuke stuff. The scale of the damage is almost sickening, and the effect of doing it without sound makes it even more eerie and upsetting.

To top it all off, some genius used the top-head angle to show the DS after firing... Now, all of a sudden, after 25 years of watching SW I see the DS as something ominous and threatening, all because I've been looking at it wrong all these years. Having the DS tilted toward the planet, laser dish looking upon the planet like some sort of one-eyed monster, high in the sky makes it a totally different animal. That blew me away. They nod to this at the end again when Krennec looks up and see's his creation in firing position, he knows what time it is...

PhiloCypher

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Drumpot wrote: »

I don't have any problem with Easter eggs appearances from characters and I don't get why people get so upset about them if they don't take away from the movie. If the appearance pleases most fans of the franchise then it's a positive , not a negative.

I think those of us criticising the fan service and callbacks do believe it takes away from the film Personally I felt the regular - and sadly witless - nods got in the way of a film that already had severe pacing and tonal issues, frequently disrupting a narrative that was struggling along from the off. Its attachment to past films also got in the way of its fumbled attempts to establish its own creative identity.

And pleasing fans is rarely an ideal artistic approach - the hint is in the word 'fanatics' (and I say that as someone who would happily declare myself a fan of many films and directors) There is a reason fan fiction is almost as a rule absolutely dreadful - it's incredibly easy to throw out a bit of fan service or a cameo from a known character; it's much more challenging to please fans in a way that advances (or even just doesn't compromise) the artistic intentions, narrative and characters.

Were you not a fan of Force Awakens whose whole plot is one ginormous call back(rehash) of the plots of Star Wars and Return of the Jedi , yet the call backs in this, that all make sense in the context of the film, are 'sadly witless' . Sorry Johnny but I find it hard to wrap my head around that one. So fan service on a huge scale is fine but a few nods is bad ?

sonic85

I'm not a Star Wars head but I quite enjoyed this - until they basically killed off the whole of the main cast. I was left with one question - what the hell was the point of this movie? It was a lead up to A New Hope wasn't it but did we really need a two hour stand alone movie? I know people who are really into Star Wars will say yes but I don't think so.

I liked the cast - Donnie Yen and Alan Tudyk in particular (Donnie needs to be in more stuff!) but the good was sucked out of the thing when everybody died

Sorry about the block of blacked out text but I'm on the phone and it's near impossible to cherry pick bits to spoiler! Don't want to ruin anything for people

Osmosis Jones

sonic85 wrote: »

I'm not a Star Wars head but I quite enjoyed this - until they basically killed off the whole of the main cast. I was left with one question - what the hell was the point of this movie? It was a lead up to A New Hope wasn't it but did we really need a two hour stand alone movie? I know people who are really into Star Wars will say yes but I don't think so.

I liked the cast - Donnie Yen and Alan Tudyk in particular (Donnie needs to be in more stuff!) but the good was sucked out of the thing when everybody died

Sorry about the block of blacked out text but I'm on the phone and it's near impossible to cherry pick bits to spoiler! Don't want to ruin anything for people

It's definitely one for the fans I feel, it fills in a lot of information that benefits the original trilogy and also has some fantastic Star Wars action.

Drumpot

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Were you not a fan of Force Awakens whose whole plot is one ginormous call back(rehash) of the plots of Star Wars and Return of the Jedi , yet the call backs in this, that all make sense in the context of the film, are 'sadly witless' . Sorry Johnny but I find it hard to wrap my head around that one. So fan service on a huge scale is fine but a few nods is bad ?

Yeh , its hard to understand without thinking that some people just want to make it an issue. Most of the nods are so quick you could easily miss them.

Some people wont like this movie and that's ok. Liking a movie is subjective in many ways and there are plenty of movies I don't like (that most people do). However, as a Star Wars movie, this is really good and its a good addition that enhances the mythology of the universe.

The benchmark is Marvel and DC (not saving private ryan or Platoon) and given that this is a movie that's as good , if not better then the other comicbook movies out (that are very good) i think it deserves the mostly positive feedback.

sonic85 wrote: »

I'm not a Star Wars head but I quite enjoyed this - until they basically killed off the whole of the main cast. I was left with one question - what the hell was the point of this movie? It was a lead up to A New Hope wasn't it but did we really need a two hour stand alone movie? I know people who are really into Star Wars will say yes but I don't think so.

I liked the cast - Donnie Yen and Alan Tudyk in particular (Donnie needs to be in more stuff!) but the good was sucked out of the thing when everybody died

Sorry about the block of blacked out text but I'm on the phone and it's near impossible to cherry pick bits to spoiler! Don't want to ruin anything for people

The purpose of this movie was to entertain and expand on ANH, which it did. It also shows the sacrifices that had to be made just to get the plans to the DS. Leaving anybody alive could of caused some annoyance because it would mean that technically they could of been alive in ANH and people would be asking where these characters were just a few days after putting so much on the line for the resistance!

Most people feel it adds way more gravity to the stakes of ANH. I found watching ANH after seeing rogue one, I instantly felt the importance of Leia being caught. You also felt the importance of the Droids getting away and Luke being found with Ben.

If you think about it. This was about the plans of the deathstar getting to Luke. That's just huge.

It also ties up some plotholes, particularly the one that plagued the OT. Why the F**k would they build a super space station with a ridiculous flaw that could blow theh hole thing up. It shows that the rebels were not afraid to do some nasty things (assinate/kill innocent people for the cause). Oh and the empire emptying a Jedi temple (or warehouse) holding the lightsabre crystals was pretty cool and a reminder that all jedi have been purged in the galaxy.

I mean the Darth Vader scene ??? Come on, that was worth 130mins of movie just for that 2 mins alone. That's the most brutal he has been onscreen and its just pure awesome . .

One thing is certain and that's that most people think this enhances the series.

TerrorFirmer

.ak wrote: »

Also... What's the story with loads of stuff missing from the trailers? Wasn't there dialogue in the trailer that Forest's character says that appears left out of the movie? 'Would you fight' etc? And wasn't there a scene on the radar tower when Jyn walks up to the platform only to be confronted by a TIE fighter hovering? I'm sure there's more bits missing too...

It's quite clear that the reshoots that the movie went through were extremely extensive and radically changed the tone and ending of the film.

In the original trailer, most of it isn't even in the final movie.

Scenes missing or radically different include...

-TIE fighter scene
-Krennic walking through the water with his cloak trailing behind him
-Whitaker both looking different and speaking different lines
- Jyn, Cassian and K2 running through the base
- Introduction to Jyn as a far more sketchy/conflicted character
- Everyone running on the beach with the Death Star Plans with AT ATs overhead
- Jyn in the Imperial Archive on her own
- Scene with Vader standing in front of a schematic screen
- Rebel prisoners being marched through Jeddha
- K2 still alive at the aforementioned beach scene

There's probably more but that's what I can think of right now.

Looking at earlier interviews as well, at some point when major reshoots were ordered, the number of special effects shots more than doubled.

No way to know right now but it's widely speculated that elements that are huge in the movie, including the major space battle and the Vader scene at the end, were not present in the original cut at all.

I personally think in the original cut, Saw had a bigger part, and from the dialogue in the original trailer, it appears that Jyn was both a very questionable character and very conflicted, possibly even a double agent? Without going too far into speculation, she may have been playing both sides in a bid to save her father - there's a huge amount between her and Saw that I think was left on the floor. It would also appear that Vader was a very minor character in the original cut and was greatly expanded by the reworking of the movie.

Also strong rumours that the deaths of the team in the original cut were far darker and grim, and that the ending with Jyn and Cassian is radically different to what played out originally (evidence suggests Cassian died seperately from Jyn, possibly was meant to originally die in the archive fall).

It seems that Disney were generally fairly horrified at the early version, which was apparently too dark, broody and regardless of how good/bad a film it was in itself, it simply was not very 'Star Wars' at all - hence the number of SFX shots went from something like 700 in the draft cut to 1,700 in the final one to allow for the huge space battle, additional vader scenes, re-working of ending, etc.

Hopefully in time we'll learn more about the original cut, but I think it's pretty clear that in this case, the major reshoots and restructuring of the movie were a hugely positive thing.

All very fascinating though. Would love to hear more about what people think was originally in Edward's rought cut.

McLoughlin

The original cut seemed to have had more of the third act set on the planet with the rebels stealing the plans from one building and escaping to another building were the communication tower was but in the edit the two buildings were amalgamated into one building.