Star Wars: Rogue One *spoilers from post 1195*

BMMachine

david75 wrote: »

I was just laughing at people ranting sort of endlessly about CGI that doesn't meet their standard. The film has bigger problems than that yet that's what people are latching onto? And using South Park in some cases to make their case?

Bless us and save us

oooohhhh edgy. Well South Park were pretty accurate with member berries and safe spaces. In fact the member berries were all about Star Wars.

this film is a turd. Its not as bad as Jurassic World or Suicide Squad or any of those other successful bad movies and its certainly not a patch on episode 7. But it is bad. The only thing saving it is its brand.
oh and my point was that they didnt have to do comical CGI faces if they made a better film that didnt rely on gallons of fanboy spunk to carry it. But as I said, Im probably asking for too much. Rinse, lather, repeat - we've got another puddle of grey flavourless mulch which is par for the course in all these franchise movies. Christ Disney are clever

Seanachai

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Yes of course - the character development, the music etc. however none of that is as jarring or unnecessary as the Leia CGI sh!t at the end.

The music is sh!t because they changed composer and had little time to do it, fair enough.

Character development due to Disney messing with Edwards vision and changing the story drastically, to protect their investment and play it safe - fair enough I can understand that.

I'm so exercised at the Leia CGI sh!t because there's no reason for it and could be fixed so simply with some simple editing (remove it), so I'm far less forgiving of such as egregious error.

I can't believe whomever had final cut on the film (Kathleen kennedy?) thought "yeah that looks good"

The CGI humans look like you've dropped some acid and just when you think you're not tripping yet you turn around and see the obviously unreal person with the freaky face.

BMMachine

orubiru wrote: »

Hey, what was your favourite part of the movie?

the Hammerhead Corvette! More personality than any character in the entire thing!

ricero

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Do you get all your news from South Park?

I didnt know people still watched south park. I stopped watching years ago.

Rogue one was great. One of the best final acts ive had the pleasure to watch in a long time. Hopefully the other spin-off films are just as good or better

Not Propaganda

orubiru wrote: »

Yeah, I feel like I am experiencing the reverse of what I felt way back with Episode One. Back then I really knew it was rubbish but I kept on defending it and trying to convince myself that it was really quite good actually. I was much younger then.

Now it feel like I want to like this one but the first hour or so it just terribly terribly boring. Not unwatchable or annoying but just "meh". So I am seeing all these people raving about how great it is and I am wondering if they are saying the last 10 minutes was great or the entire movie was great. Instead of trying to convince others that they just don't get it, like I would do with Episode One, I am trying to convince myself that maybe I am just not getting it and Rogue One really is a great film.

I love Star Wars and I will always be rooting for them to bring out an amazing movie but this just feels like such a slog leading up to 30 minutes of good stuff and then end credits.

No I totally get that, that's why I'm willing to admit I may be in denial right now. It clearly has a lot of problems but, especially second time round, I found myself just smiling through the vast majority of the film. I was just enjoying it, and I can't ask for much more from Star Wars than that.

I wouldn't hype it up to people as some magical experience and a perfect film, I totally understand why people are disappointed and even actively dislike it. Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed it and a lot of the things people are complaining about I either enjoyed or didn't bother me at all. But as I said, I've no idea if that will stand the test of time. I came out of TFA over the moon and now can see it was a lazy and safe reboot with a few good scenes.

BMMachine

ricero wrote: »

I didnt know people still watched south park. I stopped watching years ago.

Rogue one was great. One of the best final acts ive had the pleasure to watch in a long time. Hopefully the other spin-off films are just as good or better

yeah cos I used South Park references you can ignore my points on a film carried by references. IT WAS GOOD COS YOU LIKED IT

Seanachai

david75 wrote: »

I was just laughing at people ranting sort of endlessly about CGI that doesn't meet their standard. The film has bigger problems than that yet that's what people are latching onto? And using South Park in some cases to make their case?

Bless us and save us

The CGI human characters were awful but I actually think they got the casting halfway right for this one compared to FA. Jones was pretty good and Mendelsohn really stood out for me. I really didn't like the use of the stark green/black landscape in the intro, it's too grim and stark for Star Wars. The films have lost the cinematic magic that they originally had, I'd like to see them ease off on the Christopher Nolan dial.

Not Propaganda

Also a few people have mentioned it but watching it last night I really noticed the score, it took me out of the scene once or twice, not great unfortunately.

robinph

I still don't see how they could have done the film without including Tarkin., unless the movie about stealing the Death Star plans doesn't include anything of the Death Star.

Leia and Darth are optional extras, but it's not exactly difficult to recreate a bloke wearing a bin on his head 40 years after you first did it and Darth being there adds to the opening of ANH massively.

If you have any action at all happening on the Death Star then you have to have Tarkin there to give the order to fire, it can't come from anyone else. Otherwise you could just have the Death Star as being a mysterious small moon that occasionally fires lasers by the orders of some unknown person hiding away on board, but then everyone would be complaining that we didn't get any interior film of the Death Star. The alternative of Tarkin only being seen in reflections in the windows is daft as well when he is perfectly happy to talk face to face with his other officers a day or so later. Just wouldn't fit with the overall story.

Theboinkmaster

BMMachine wrote: »

this film is a turd.

I certainly wouldn't go that far, I think it's a good film, just frustrated that instead of being a Thor it could've been a Dark Knight.

Theboinkmaster

robinph wrote: »

If you have any action at all happening on the Death Star then you have to have Tarkin there to give the order to fire, it can't come from anyone else.

Why not from someone else?
Why does he have to feature so much, why not just a brief cameo filmed in a subtle way that he's there giving order but not in your face etc. Have Krennic deliver a line of dialogue like "Tarkin has given the order".

Could do it effectively a million ways.

That's just fanwank nonsense IMO. Tarkin does have not have to be in the film at all FFS. They did it because they could rather than they should.

orubiru

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Agreed. I find the hysterical hypercritical fan modern nerd culture has produced baffling and wonder how they enjoy any film if i'm honest.

I don't think it's hypercritical at all.

A lot of the positive reaction to the movie is things like "it was great that Leia was in it" but actually she was only in it for a few seconds and I don't even think that ANY of the main characters mentioned Princess Leia or even knew who she was.

Wasn't Leia like a secret rebel anyway? I though she was cooperating with the Empire while trying to undermine them in secret?

It's the same with Darth Vader. Is he even mentioned by any of the good guys at all for the entire movie? Does he interact with any of them?

No. He just shows up for a few minutes completely detached from the rest of the film.

If anything, Nerd Culture has become easy to please. Throw a few 'memberberries into your movie and they will do your marketing for you.

So Leia and Vader and Tarkin are in the film and that's great but how much influence do they actually have on the story? The main characters have conflict with Krennic but it's not even clear that the know who Tarkin or Vader are.

The film doesn't even really try to tie the new stuff to the 'memberberry stuff.

It's basically a bland sci fi story covered in Star Wars bunting.

Maybe Episode 10 will be a series of teaser trailers for unmade Star Wars stores and then Episode 11 can just be a slideshow of Things From Star Wars with a John Willaims soundtrack.

If we are gona get a new Star Wars every year now then eventually they are going to make one that is worse than the prequels.

orubiru

Not Propaganda wrote: »

No I totally get that, that's why I'm willing to admit I may be in denial right now. It clearly has a lot of problems but, especially second time round, I found myself just smiling through the vast majority of the film. I was just enjoying it, and I can't ask for much more from Star Wars than that.

I wouldn't hype it up to people as some magical experience and a perfect film, I totally understand why people are disappointed and even actively dislike it. Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed it and a lot of the things people are complaining about I either enjoyed or didn't bother me at all. But as I said, I've no idea if that will stand the test of time. I came out of TFA over the moon and now can see it was a lazy and safe reboot with a few good scenes.

A serious question though. Did you enjoy the whole movie or did you just enjoy the final act?

I was perfectly OK with the last 30 minutes or so. It was good. It was just frustrating to actually have to sit there waiting for things to happen.

I'd compare it to watching Ireland beat someone like Georgia 1-0 at the football after a brutally boring match with a last minute goal. Yeah, I'm happy leaving the stadium with a win but it was a painful slog just getting there.

yourdeadwright

Its star wars, its suppose to be a fun adventure movie of kids and that's what it was,
People looking for an amazing plot are never going to get it, its Star wars after all,
The originals had loads of plot holes, for a start trying to hide Luke from his dad and still calling him Luke Skywalker is retarded but guess what there still a fun movies and that's all there suppose to be.

Mickeroo

david75 wrote: »

It makes total sense if you know anything about Star wars and how it came about. Those kinds of movies weren't made. The idea was broadly scoffed at. Scripts weren't written that way. And models and effects and film making definitely wasn't done that way.

Ie 'properly'.


Lucasfilm have always been at the front breaking new ground. Always. And they're still doing it. Nit picking and whinging about it cos you didn't like it cos it wasn't 'done properly' and it 'shouldn't be done if it can't be done properly' gets nothing done and says they may as all not try.

Defeatist if not cynical.

The Audrey Hepburn in the galaxy chocolate ad was better....

orubiru

robinph wrote: »

I still don't see how they could have done the film without including Tarkin., unless the movie about stealing the Death Star plans doesn't include anything of the Death Star.

I disagree.

Krennic effectively performs Tarkins role in this movie. He is in charge of the Death Star and as of the start of the film nobody actually knows if it works or not.

So part of Krennic's motivation in the film is proving that this super weapon actually works. Introducing Tarkin and moving to Episode IV is easy then.

Krennic escapes Scarif just before the base gets destroyed. Then he returns to his office/quarters looking smug. Tarkin: "Congratulations Director Krennic. I'll take it from here". A Stormtrooper emerges from the dark and shoots him dead. Camera pans round to show Tarkin partially hidden in shadow. Tarkin : "Inform Lord Vader that Director Krennic did not escape from Scarif in time."

If they set things up to show that Krennic is butting heads with Vader a few times and Vader is liable to lose his temper then we can assume that Tarkin protects himself from Vader and the Emperor by using others as a shield before he comes in to take the credit and the power.

That way the audience gets their 'memberberries, we understand that Tarkin in Episode IV is a ruthless, cold, power-hungry, killer.

Not Propaganda

Not Propaganda wrote: »

No I totally get that, that's why I'm willing to admit I may be in denial right now. It clearly has a lot of problems but, especially second time round, I found myself just smiling through the vast majority of the film. I was just enjoying it, and I can't ask for much more from Star Wars than that.

I wouldn't hype it up to people as some magical experience and a perfect film, I totally understand why people are disappointed and even actively dislike it. Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed it and a lot of the things people are complaining about I either enjoyed or didn't bother me at all. But as I said, I've no idea if that will stand the test of time. I came out of TFA over the moon and now can see it was a lazy and safe reboot with a few good scenes.

This perfectly summed up how I felt about TFA. Second viewing wasn't nearly as good. The magic just swept me up the first time. This didn't happen at all for me with Rogue One.

Not Propaganda

orubiru wrote: »

A serious question though. Did you enjoy the whole movie or did you just enjoy the final act?

I was perfectly OK with the last 30 minutes or so. It was good. It was just frustrating to actually have to sit there waiting for things to happen.

I'd compare it to watching Ireland beat someone like Georgia 1-0 at the football after a brutally boring match with a last minute goal. Yeah, I'm happy leaving the stadium with a win but it was a painful slog just getting there.

Good analogy to be fair

I actually did enjoy the whole movie yeah. There were bits that were a slog, specifically anything on Yavin for me, but I really enjoyed Jedha, Eadu & then the final act. I liked the main cast of characters even though we didn't get a huge backstory for all of them, I kind of felt like that was the point as well which I've touched on.

Again though, I can see why people don't like it. I enjoyed it but I'm not going to shout people down about it. Will look forward to rewatching it after a few months, maybe when the DVD + extras is released and seeing how it goes then.

Arne_Saknussem

orubiru wrote: »

I disagree.

Krennic effectively performs Tarkins role in this movie. He is in charge of the Death Star and as of the start of the film nobody actually knows if it works or not.

So part of Krennic's motivation in the film is proving that this super weapon actually works. Introducing Tarkin and moving to Episode IV is easy then.

Krennic escapes Scarif just before the base gets destroyed. Then he returns to his office/quarters looking smug. Tarkin: "Congratulations Director Krennic. I'll take it from here". A Stormtrooper emerges from the dark and shoots him dead. Camera pans round to show Tarkin partially hidden in shadow. Tarkin : "Inform Lord Vader that Director Krennic did not escape from Scarif in time."

If they set things up to show that Krennic is butting heads with Vader a few times and Vader is liable to lose his temper then we can assume that Tarkin protects himself from Vader and the Emperor by using others as a shield before he comes in to take the credit and the power.

That way the audience gets their 'memberberries, we understand that Tarkin in Episode IV is a ruthless, cold, power-hungry, killer.

Already Grand Moff, already at the top of the ladder. Don't quit the day job. Next!

david75

All the podcasts I listen to are all saying the same thing and it's my own experi nice so far. The only people even noticing the Tarkin/Leia thing is the super fans. And there's nothing like us superfans for getting butt hurt. (I thought his movements were off, sorta lurchy/jerky. No probs with his face) and they made him about half a foot taller than he is in a new hope. That stood out straight away.


In other news I'd love this. You can only get them in the US though.

orubiru

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Already Grand Moff, already at the top of the ladder. Don't quit the day job. Next!

He's not top of the ladder though. The Emperor is in charge.

We also know, from Episode IV, that some Imperial bigwigs are skeptical of Vader and that Vader is skeptical of the Death Star. It also seems that Vader is prone to losing his temper and that The Emperor encourages that,

It makes sense that Grand Moff Tarkin would take steps to protect himself by letting others face the wrath of the Sith.

To be fair to myself though, I am not, and never will be, a writer.

The argument was that Tarkin doesn't need to be in the movie. At least he doesn't need to be in a prominent role with lots of screentime.

I was just pointing out that "sure just have a CGI version of the character" isn't the only solution.

What if they just had him appear as a hologram? We see loads of holograms in Star Wars and we know that it's a form of communitcation that they use. Then you could have him on screen a lot more and easily disguise the fact that he's a CGI character.

Arne_Saknussem

orubiru wrote: »

He's not top of the ladder though. The Emperor is in charge.

We also know, from Episode IV, that some Imperial bigwigs are skeptical of Vader and that Vader is skeptical of the Death Star. It also seems that Vader is prone to losing his temper and that The Emperor encourages that,

It makes sense that Grand Moff Tarkin would take steps to protect himself by letting others face the wrath of the Sith.

To be fair to myself though, I am not, and never will be, a writer.

The argument was that Tarkin doesn't need to be in the movie. At least he doesn't need to be in a prominent role with lots of screentime.

I was just pointing out that "sure just have a CGI version of the character" isn't the only solution.

What if they just had him appear as a hologram? We see loads of holograms in Star Wars and we know that it's a form of communitcation that they use. Then you could have him on screen a lot more and easily disguise the fact that he's a CGI character.

It makes sense that the commander of the Death Star is in a film about the same Death Star.

Your ideas are not better, people just always like the smell of their farts more than those of others.

david75

This is an interesting read lads. Not sure I agree with all of it but some good takes on where Star Wars needs to go
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2016/12/19/if-its-going-to-work-star-wars-needs-to-get-past-the-rebellion-and-the-empire/

Not Propaganda

I've barely touched on Tarkin in my posts because tbh it didn't bother me at all but to weigh in a bit, in terms of writing the story I think you have to look at it from Lucasfilm and ILM as a whole. They are ambitious and always, always push boundaries. The writers probably asked early on "is this possible?" and were told "100% yes we can do that" and went on to frame the story with Tarkin being used prominently. Once you're told Tarkin is available wouldn't you use him?

I know you have reshoots and pickups but I think once you're so invested in a CGI character which obviously, the money involved would be huge, they are committed and I don't think it looked so bad that it needed to be completely reworked. They like pushing boundaries, they always have and it'll continue on. It was a risk that didn't 100% pay off but it was one worth taking imo.

orubiru

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

It makes sense that the commander of the Death Star is in a film about the same Death Star.

Your ideas are not better, people just always like the smell of their farts more than those of others.

Haha. I'm not saying my ideas are better.

The argument is that Tarkin, and therefore a CGI rendering of Peter Cushing, absolutely must be in the movie and there is absolutely no way to write around that or to come up with anything other than "use a CGI character". I disagree.

Yeah yeah yeah "it makes sense". Except that the actor who played that character is no longer with us. So could they maybe come up with a reason why he isn't there in the film? Nah, just throw in a CGI version of the guy and that's that.

Is he commander of the Death Star at the start of Rogue One?

I was pretty sure that he didn't take charge until the Death Star had been shown to be working.

david75

Can you guys see yourselves coming back to this often? And once it's settled in do you see it rising or falling in your personal Star Wars rankings?
I'm not sure for myself.

Eye roll at a lot of the Star Wars fan base suddenly turning on the force awakens saying they hate it and this is way better but I guess that's to be expected. Surprised at a lot of people I know liking this I never imagined would and I lot of people I thought would love it that really not liking it at all. Seems to fare better with very casual Star Wars fans than the few hardcore I know.

Not Propaganda

david75 wrote: »

This is an interesting read lads. Not sure I agree with all of it but some good takes on where Star Wars needs to go
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2016/12/19/if-its-going-to-work-star-wars-needs-to-get-past-the-rebellion-and-the-empire/

Nah it's a very good article and I'd agree with the general thrust of it. We all love a good action adventure romp and Star Wars is dear to a lot of people because we saw it when we were young etc. But it does have potential to explore a lot of questions and have interesting stories - the question is does it want to?

I think it's in good hands with Disney and I think you will see a couple of different ideas come in to play with the movies soon. Unfortunately in terms of the 3rd trilogy, I think we'll see a familiar story arc between Rey and Kylo Ren but I'm holding out hope to be surprised.

Arne_Saknussem

orubiru wrote: »

Haha. I'm not saying my ideas are better.

The argument is that Tarkin, and therefore a CGI rendering of Peter Cushing, absolutely must be in the movie and there is absolutely no way to write around that or to come up with anything other than "use a CGI character". I disagree.

Yeah yeah yeah "it makes sense". Except that the actor who played that character is no longer with us. So could they maybe come up with a reason why he isn't there in the film? Nah, just throw in a CGI version of the guy and that's that.

Is he commander of the Death Star at the start of Rogue One?

I was pretty sure that he didn't take charge until the Death Star had been shown to be working.

Personally i'd normally be a fan of as little CGI in a film as is needed, and apart from Tarkin/Leia i thought the rest of the film visually looked good.

They made a decision to go with it and the execution was good enough for some people who didn't know he was dead to not notice. I did find myself preoccupied with the rendering in the scenes he was in but sure **** it, it wasn't that bad and i got over it.

Not Propaganda

david75 wrote: »

Can you guys see yourselves coming back to this often? And once it's settled in do you see it rising or falling in your personal Star Wars rankings?
I'm not sure for myself.

Eye roll at a lot of the Star Wars fan base suddenly turning on the force awakens saying they hate it and this is way better but I guess that's to be expected. Surprised at a lot of people I know liking this I never imagined would and I lot of people I thought would love it that really not liking it at all. Seems to fare better with very casual Star Wars fans than the few hardcore I know.

I definitely will go back to it in a few months time and see how I feel about it then.

I also don't mean to be really down on TFA, I still enjoy it and think it's better than RotJ for the most part, just when I initially came out of the theatre I was so over the moon and had it up there with Empire. At the minute I would go:

1. Empire
2. ANH
3. TFA/Rogue One
4. RotJ
5. Prequels

I think what Rogue One does is elevate ANH quite a bit as well, makes the stakes feel so much higher

david75

Not Propaganda wrote: »

Nah it's a very good article and I'd agree with the general thrust of it. We all love a good action adventure romp and Star Wars is dear to a lot of people because we saw it when we were young etc. But it does have potential to explore a lot of questions and have interesting stories - the question is does it want to?

I think it's in good hands with Disney and I think you will see a couple of different ideas come in to play with the movies soon. Unfortunately in terms of the 3rd trilogy, I think we'll see a familiar story arc between Rey and Kylo Ren but I'm holding out hope to be surprised.

Yeah I agree it needs to broaden its scope and add some texture and grey areas by at the same one you have fans calling to knights of the old republic for example which would generally be just more of the same.

I trust Disney and lucasfilm too. That big meeting is happening next month about the future of the franchise. Be interetsing to see where they go.

I can see further saga films/ trilogies being left alone for a long time.