Star Wars: Rogue One *spoilers from post 1195*

Sudden Valley

Amazing to think they have now made four films now centred around death Star super weapons (the force awakens basically had a Death Star rip-off). Although I very much enjoyed the movie I think the Star Wars universe needs some new ideas. With both Luke and Leia soon to exit the stage they need stronger characters to take their place. As a normal film Rogue One is a 8/10 for me, as as star Wars film is 9/10, possibly my second favourite tied with A new Hope after ESB.

david75

Sudden Valley wrote: »

Amazing to think they have now made four films now centred around death Star super weapons (the force awakens basically had a Death Star rip-off). Although I very much enjoyed the movie I think the Star Wars universe needs some new ideas. With both Luke and Leia soon to exit the stage they need stronger characters to take their place. As a normal film Rogue One is a 8/10 for me, as as star Wars film is 9/10, possibly my second favourite tied with A new Hope after ESB.

Well the comic book movies do the same thing repeatedly too. Good guys vs ever larger and insurmountable odds.

This will definitely be the last time you see a superweapon be the centre of a Star Wars story though. Unless they do someday remake the originals.

BMMachine

david75 wrote: »

All the podcasts I listen to are all saying the same thing and it's my own experi nice so far. The only people even noticing the Tarkin/Leia thing is the super fans. And there's nothing like us superfans for getting butt hurt.

Yeah my friend who I went with was a massive superfan and that's why she cracked up laughing at them. She wasn't at all a normal person with half an interest in Star Wars. Even myself, I don't mind Star Wars, I like it, but I don't care about it that much and I thought it was stupid.

There's a very good chance that those podcasts are wrong. Be objectful and don't see and say what you want in order to protect your values

conorhal

orubiru wrote: »

Yeah, I feel like I am experiencing the reverse of what I felt way back with Episode One. Back then I really knew it was rubbish but I kept on defending it and trying to convince myself that it was really quite good actually. I was much younger then.

Now it feel like I want to like this one but the first hour or so it just terribly terribly boring. Not unwatchable or annoying but just "meh". So I am seeing all these people raving about how great it is and I am wondering if they are saying the last 10 minutes was great or the entire movie was great. Instead of trying to convince others that they just don't get it, like I would do with Episode One, I am trying to convince myself that maybe I am just not getting it and Rogue One really is a great film.

I love Star Wars and I will always be rooting for them to bring out an amazing movie but this just feels like such a slog leading up to 30 minutes of good stuff and then end credits.

I feel exactly the same, a few people in the office were talking about the film, raving about it in fact. I asked them one simple question.
How many characters can you name?
That stumped them. The all got Jyn, though a couple flubbed the surname. That was it, the best they could jokingly manage was C3P-D2, Not Solo and Ninja Kenobi.
It doesn't say much about a film that lacks a single memorable character that wasn't already made famous by a film full of them. As Luke warm as I was on TFA, I could still have rattled off Rey, Ren, Finn, Poe and BB8. With this ...nothing...
I think there's a lot of folk suffering a relapse of Phantom Menace Syndrome, for which they spent years in group therapy for they could stand up and say, 'hello, my name is Conor and I'm a Starwars fan, and yes, that movie WAS $h1t'

PhiloCypher

conorhal wrote: »

orubiru wrote: »

Yeah, I feel like I am experiencing the reverse of what I felt way back with Episode One. Back then I really knew it was rubbish but I kept on defending it and trying to convince myself that it was really quite good actually. I was much younger then.

Now it feel like I want to like this one but the first hour or so it just terribly terribly boring. Not unwatchable or annoying but just "meh". So I am seeing all these people raving about how great it is and I am wondering if they are saying the last 10 minutes was great or the entire movie was great. Instead of trying to convince others that they just don't get it, like I would do with Episode One, I am trying to convince myself that maybe I am just not getting it and Rogue One really is a great film.

I love Star Wars and I will always be rooting for them to bring out an amazing movie but this just feels like such a slog leading up to 30 minutes of good stuff and then end credits.

I feel exactly the same, a few people in the office were talking about the film, raving about it in fact. I asked them one simple question.
How many characters can you name.
That stumped them. The all got Jyn, though a couple flubbed the surname. Hyatt wa it, the best they could jokingly manage was C3P-D2, Not Solo and Ninja Kenobi.
It doesn't say much about a film that lacks a single memorable character that wasn't already made famous by a film full of them. As Luke warm as I was on TFA, I could still have rattled off Rey, Ren, Finn, Poe and BB8. With this ...nothing...

There's tv shows that I've been watching years and films I love that I could name maybe one character from . It's not a good gauge of whether a show/film is good or not . Oft times in a action movie like this names are mentioned once when they are introduced and never again . That you could list off all of TFA characters is as much down to the marketing and the fact you knew they would be hanging around and thus worth remembering.

Kirby

PhiloCypher wrote: »

There's tv shows that I've been watching years and films I love that I could name maybe one character from . It's not a good gauge of whether a show/film is good or not . Oft times in a action movie like this names are mentioned once when they are introduced and never again . That you could list off all of TFA characters is as much down to the marketing and the fact you knew they would be hanging around and thus worth remembering.

I disagree. Marketing had nothing to do with TFA having memorable names. You can remember TFA characters because they have simple, easy to say names that you can hear clearly, and remember easily.....just like the original trilogy. Han, Luke, Ben, Leia, Vader, Jabba, Greedo, Tarkin

TFA has Rey, Finn, Poe. The only weird/complex sounding name that your brain doesn't instantly get is Kylo Ren. And his real name is Ben.

Now compare those names to the ones in Rogue One.

Jyn Erso. It's quite a weird name that you wouldn't hear in real life so your brain has trouble with it. I thought it was "Urso" for most of the film. And even hers is the most simple one of the lot.
Cassian Andor sounds like something you order off a menu.
Chirrut Imwe is just incomprehensible.
Baze Malbus sounds like what you would get with some scrabble tiles thrown onto the floor.

And we finally have Saw Gerrera. The name is so odd that even after the 12th time his name was said aloud on screen, I still didn't know what his name was. I had to goodle it when i got home. "They were saying Saw?!?"

I'm sure everyone in conorhal's office could describe the characters even if they couldnt name them. I dont feel the issue is with how they were written....just what they were called.

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

I disagree. Marketing had nothing to do with TFA having memorable names. You can remember TFA characters because they have simple, easy to say names that you can hear clearly, and remember easily.....just like the original trilogy. Han, Luke, Ben, Leia, Vader, Jabba, Greedo, Tarkin

TFA has Rey, Finn, Poe. The only weird/complex sounding name that your brain doesn't instantly get is Kylo Ren. And his real name is Ben.

Now compare those names to the ones in Rogue One.

Jyn Erso. It's quite a weird name that you wouldn't hear in real life so your brain has trouble with it. I thought it was "Urso" for most of the film. And even hers is the most simple one of the lot.
Cassian Andor sounds like something you order off a menu.
Chirrut Imwe is just incomprehensible.
Baze Malbus sounds like what you would get with some scrabble tiles thrown onto the floor.

And we finally have Saw Gerrera. The name is so odd that even after the 12th time his name was said aloud on screen, I still didn't know what his name was. I had to goodle it when i got home. "They were saying Saw?!?"

I'm sure everyone in conorhal's office could describe the characters even if they couldnt name them. I dont feel the issue is with how they were written....just what they were called.

I'm not even sure who chirrut and baze are

Kirby

Chirrut was Donnie Yen's character. The blind force ninja fellow. "I am one with the force and the force is with me."

Baze was his buddy.

They are just poorly named.

BMMachine

Jyn - bland, boring, nothing to her.
Cassian (just learned this now!) - bland, boring, nothing to him. of course the two boring characters fall in love. they probably plan to spend nights in watching Greys Anatomy and doing crossword puzzles.
Chirrut - I am one with the force, the force is with me. Again nothing to him. Opportunity to explore the force in the context of the wider universe wasn't taken, maybe due to time, also hard to care about.
Baze Malbus - actually no idea who that is
Saw Gerrera - the person they should have had teaming up with Jyn in order to develop her and their mission instead of Cassian. Confusing character as he does't do much and is ultimately a turnkey for the plot instead of actually having the substance he should have. I'd watch a film about him and Jyn and their adventures together and then a suicide mission to get the death star plans. A simple, effective film with focus - imagine that!
The Robot - Copy/Paste job of Drax the Destroyer from Guardians of the Galaxy. Unoriginal, cheap comedy for idiots.
Kirruk (main bad guy) - actually got to know this guy and his motivation. This could have still been done without Tarkin or Vader. Actually had the most presence out of any of the characters and it was a completely wasted opportunity not having him know Jyn and be hunting her at least. You could have focussed the movie around 3 characters - Jyn, Saw and Kirruk and whatever about the rest. Cassian is 100% not needed. Chirrut could have been a bloke they run into to learn more about the force or mysticism or something and maybe he dies saving them. Riz Ahmed wasn't needed, I like the actor but yet another turnkey.
Mads Mikkelson - what an extraordinary waste of such a brilliant actor, face and presence. He should have been used in the main storyline in episode 8 or something. In this he was just another bloke you barely cared about.

so yeah, if you like CGI cutscenes from computer games with no characters than this could be a good film. If you like going on an adventure with good characters (ya know, Star Wars 4 - 6) then this compares extremely poorly.

although it did have blue milk and darth vader and tarkin and leia and r2d2 and the guy with the mutant face from the canteen in ep 4 and Jar-Jar Binks was skinned and reshaped as a ballsack for the admiral fish guy's chin and and and AT-AT walkers, I clapped for them!

david75

Be fair. The characters in R1 not one of them are as likeable or as 'on screen presence' as any of the new cast in Force awakens. Except maybe K2

And Chirrut. Really liked him.

Glebee

Going to see it over the Christmas at some stage with the young lad( 7 year old), Hes seen most of the other star wars stuff and know all the characters, etc. I presume theres noting to bad in it for young kids????? Or am I wrong???

Arne_Saknussem

david75 wrote: »

Be fair. The characters in R1 not one of them are as likeable or as 'on screen presence' as any of the new cast in Force awakens. Except maybe K2

And Chirrut. Really liked him.

Force Awakens cast were terrible apart from the pilot guy.

BMMachine

david75 wrote: »

Be fair. The characters in R1 not one of them are as likeable or as 'on screen presence' as any of the new cast in Force awakens. Except maybe K2

And Chirrut. Really liked him.

INCORRECT

Kirby

Glebee wrote: »

Going to see it over the Christmas at some stage with the young lad( 7 year old), Hes seen most of the other star wars stuff and know all the characters, etc. I presume theres noting to bad in it for young kids????? Or am I wrong???

It has a darker tone and it has a lot of death in it but its quite abstract. Nobody gets their head blown off or anything like that and there is virtually no blood. You wont see a jedi chop off an arm like in A New Hope.

If he has seen the rest of the star wars movies, this one won't be any different. It has violence but it's fantasy violence and is fairly tame.

david75

BMMachine wrote: »

INCORRECT

You're totally entitled to your Totally wrong opinion. As I am mine.

david75

Kirby wrote: »

It has a darker tone and it has a lot of death in it but its quite abstract. Nobody gets their head blown off or anything like that and there is virtually no blood. You wont see a jedi chop off an arm like in A New Hope.

If he has seen the rest of the star wars movies, this one won't be any different. It has violence but it's fantasy violence and is fairly tame.

Ehhhh that last scene with Vader..

Temptamperu

The more I think about this movie the more I dont like it.

david75

Temptamperu wrote: »

The more I think about this movie the more I dont like it.

You'd won't buy it but I hated all but the last 20 minutes first time I saw it.
But second viewing it made a lot more sense and was more enjoyable.


It's gonna take a long long time to settle into its place in the story and in all Star Wars but it will.

BMMachine

david75 wrote: »

You're totally entitled to your Totally wrong opinion. As I am mine.

and theres the weakest and oldest excuse on the internet when it comes to protecting ones values.

its entirely possible that your fanboy bias is getting in the way. this is not an uncommon thing. people are prone to this behaviour quite often.
personally, I just think its a standards thing.

david75

BMMachine wrote: »

and theres the weakest and oldest excuse on the internet when it comes to protecting ones values.

its entirely possible that your fanboy bias is getting in the way. this is not an uncommon thing. people are prone to this behaviour quite often.
personally, I just think its a standards thing.

It was a joke. Jaysis

david75

BMMachine wrote: »

and theres the weakest and oldest excuse on the internet when it comes to protecting ones values.

its entirely possible that your fanboy bias is getting in the way. this is not an uncommon thing. people are prone to this behaviour quite often.
personally, I just think its a standards thing.

Ps shouting INCORRECT At people is hardly worth responding to.
Hence the joke.

I'll keep my values thanks. Don't need any lectures about them.

BMMachine

david75 wrote: »

It was a joke. Jaysis

smashing one at that.
the type of brilliant joke the charismatic character of this film would make.

you know, the robot from Guardians of the Galaxy.

this is a very poor movie... but its 2016 now so sh*t is acceptable. if enough people like something it now means its good, solid art with depth and substance and value

BMMachine

david75 wrote: »

I'll keep my values thanks. Don't need any lectures about them.

and thats exactly my problem. the internet now means that bad things are elevated above their station lest people feel uncomfortable about liking crap. objectivity is dead. long live opinion. long live grey flavourless mulch

david75

BMMachine wrote: »

smashing one at that.
the type of brilliant joke the charismatic character of this film would make.

you know, the robot from Guardians of the Galaxy.

this is a very poor movie... but its 2016 now so sh*t is acceptable. if enough people like something it now means its good, solid art with depth and substance and value

And yet here you are still talking about it. Convincing nobody.


Solid art with depth and value.



Yeah are you new to blockbusters?

BMMachine

david75 wrote: »

And yet here you are still talking about it. Convincing nobody.


Solid art with depth and value.



Yeah are you new to blockbusters?

nope. I just like good things. There isnt that much depth and value to the force awakes but I found it a ton more enjoyable than this film. I could fire off a big list of blockbusters I did/didn't enjoy but its in vain.

and yeah, Im not convincing you. But I am making you aware that your standards and values might not provide any weight behind your opinions on films and art. The hope being that a person/people might read over all this and think about themselves, their values and how they approach culture.


but sure f**k it, just jizz all over Darth Vader doing force tricks and gutting people. thats clearly where the character is at his best

david75

There's a lot of people saying this is a timely film and has a lot of depth and worth and meaning for them personally. Just cos it isn't there for you or me doesn't mean it isn't there. Saying it has no value is a weird flip side of trumptards taking offence about not so hidden attacks on trump that aren't even in it.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

You'd swear this was the worst movie of all time... Jesus.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Stop getting butt hurt over whether it's a good or bad movie...

david75

BMMachine wrote: »

nope. I just like good things. There isnt that much depth and value to the force awakes but I found it a ton more enjoyable than this film. I could fire off a big list of blockbusters I did/didn't enjoy but its in vain.

and yeah, Im not convincing you. But I am making you aware that your standards and values might not provide any weight behind your opinions on films and art. The hope being that a person/people might read over all this and think about themselves, their values and how they approach culture.


but sure f**k it, just jizz all over Darth Vader doing force tricks and gutting people. thats clearly where the character is at his best

Ah look a lecturer cum evangelist. You can't lecture people about how they enjoy films or what they should take from them. To meet your standard?

That's far past patronising.

BMMachine

david75 wrote: »

There's a lot of people saying this is a timely film and has a lot of depth and worth and meaning for them personally. Just cos it isn't there for you or me doesn't mean it isn't there. Saying it has no value is a weird flip side of trumptards taking offence about not so hidden attacks on trump that aren't even in it.

I happen to think their opinion is worth balls. mass does not equal weight.
I personally think there has been a severe dip in what is considered good and I think that has a lot to do with online culture. I think there is a mass distortion out there as regards quality of art and meaning of culture.

I think this is a pretty bad film which is being carried by fanboys and hype. And from reading yours and others comments, I know Im right