Star Wars: Rogue One *spoilers from post 1195*

pixelburp

david75 wrote: »

To be fair the opposite has been happening a lot more. Meaning having to make rogue one out to be great but having to dismantle force awakens to do so. Which is pointless given they're two entirely different films about totally different things but happen in the same universe.

Comparing and contrasting is hardly 'dismantling', and it's fair game considering Rogue One is in broad strokes Episode 3.5. We have 2 new Star Wars films that are effectively launching an ongoing franchise where hitherto there was none. It's not exactly unfair or unreasonable to compare the approach and attempts to portray the universe by the two films.

david75

pixelburp wrote: »

Comparing and contrasting is hardly 'dismantling', and it's fair game considering Rogue One is in broad strokes Episode 3.5. We have 2 new Star Wars films that are effectively launching an ongoing franchise where hitherto there was none. It's not exactly unfair or unreasonable to compare the approach and attempts to portray the universe by the two films.

Totally. But it is happening like tat and it's really lazy IMO

Kirby

Not Propaganda wrote: »

I was actually thinking about this as I watched TFA over Christmas there

In the scene where Rey has her vision and she sees Kylo Ren with a lightsaber and what I assume are the other Knights of Ren behind him: none of the others have a lightsaber.

I'm thinking what we learned about kyber crystals in Rogue One will have a part to play in episode VIII next year, why Kylo Ren's lightsaber is more crackly, imperfectly made for example. Are kyber crystals a rarity now? Maybe not a major plot point but something to look out for I think.

Both lightsabres are more "crackly". Even Lukes. It's just how the CGI made them.

johnny_ultimate

I like that Kylo Ren's lightsaber is unstable simply because it's a clear visual representation of one of his defining character traits - his emotional & even ideological instability. It's a neat bit of purely visual storytelling that recontextualises a familiar Star Wars trope to suit the story being told, not just because it looks cool (it does look cool). There's IMO a danger in this franchise of attempting to have a 'lore' explanation for everything - something that has birthed the prequels and extended universe alike - when 'just go with it' is often more beneficial for, say, the visual identity or characterisation of the individual films.

david75

They're not actually though. There has been an explanation that His Crystal is cracked. Due to lack of know how of making a lightsaber or flawed crystal we won't find out til 8. It is just a design choice to represent him being unstable. Luke's saber doesn't crackle at all. Kylos is the first ever to really.

Doctor DooM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I like that Kylo Ren's lightsaber is unstable simply because it's a clear visual representation of one of his defining character traits - his emotional & even ideological instability. It's a neat bit of purely visual storytelling that recontextualises a familiar Star Wars trope to suit the story being told, not just because it looks cool (it does look cool). There's IMO a danger in this franchise of attempting to have a 'lore' explanation for everything - something that has birthed the prequels and extended universe alike - when 'just go with it' is often more beneficial for, say, the visual identity or characterisation of the individual films.

While obviously that's the real reason, it represents his mental instability and wild, untrained nature, it does indeed have a "kayfabe" in continuity reason (I went looking out of pure interest from this discussion). I always appreciate this level of commitment to world building

From the wiki:

The lightsaber was crudely assembled based on an ancient design dating back thousands of years to the Great Scourge of Malachor.[3][4] Despite being an ancient design, the lightsaber had modern components inside it. A single cracked Kyber crystal, barely able to contain the weapon's power, necessitated the lateral vents which diverted the extra heat produced by the crystal to either side of the hilt, and gave the weapon's red plasma blades an unstable, serrated appearance. To balance the weapon's power, the crossguard blades emerge after the main blade appears.

IncognitoMan

Wedwood wrote: »

Oh dear, it's depressing that every movie that's ever going to be released is now going to be subjected to an infinite number of DIY dissections, like these 'everything that's wrong with ..' articles.

The term 'suspension of disbelief' which previously applied to such fantasy films and allowed you to enjoy them, has been replaced with what is basically a new form of trolling posing as a 'review'. I'd hate to be a child of one of these lot listening to them in the cinema scouring the movie for every tiniest inconsistency.

Even the good movies now only get a couple of positive weeks, before all these 'whats wrong with' articles appear.

You're better off ignoring these 'reviews' of movies, go to see it if you want and make up your own mind whether you like it or not.

I remember before watching a YouTube video where the creator talked about what does well on YouTube and how to get more people to click on your videos. They spoke about how you'll often find that videos with negative headlines did better than those with positive ones. Especially when that negative headline is going against the grain.

I guess there's a reason why "everything wrong with" is huge on YouTube. I used to actually enjoy watching them but then you just realise that it's all nit-picking and they are not really saying anything constructive about the film.

For what it's worth there's a very good YouTube channel that does the opposite, an "everything great about" and it is at least imo a far far more balanced and well thought out series.

tigger123

Wedwood wrote: »

Oh dear, it's depressing that every movie that's ever going to be released is now going to be subjected to an infinite number of DIY dissections, like these 'everything that's wrong with ..' articles.

The term 'suspension of disbelief' which previously applied to such fantasy films and allowed you to enjoy them, has been replaced with what is basically a new form of trolling posing as a 'review'. I'd hate to be a child of one of these lot listening to them in the cinema scouring the movie for every tiniest inconsistency.

Even the good movies now only get a couple of positive weeks, before all these 'whats wrong with' articles appear.

You're better off ignoring these 'reviews' of movies, go to see it if you want and make up your own mind whether you like it or not.

If you spent any amount of time poring over everyone's opinion on a film, particularly films that appeal to internet savvy people such as TFA and Rogue One, you wouldn't much enjoy it by the end. It's a waste of time.

Plus, whatever your opinion of a film is you can find articles online that will support your view.

Generally if I enjoy a film I don't get too bogged down in other people's criticism. It adds nothing to the experience, and will only detract from it.

Conchir

Were Red and Gold leaders CGI, or enhanced and unused film from 1977?

david75

Conchir wrote: »

Were Red and Gold leaders CGI, or enhanced and unused film from 1977?

Unused B roll footage from a new hope reels.

eeguy

david75 wrote: »

Unused B roll footage from a new hope reels.

They cropped the original b-roll film to isolate the the actors, digitally recreated new cockpits around them, and used some original audio and voice actors to give them new lines.

There's a line "I'm starting my attack run...(original)...on the shield generator (new).

On the whole I loved it.

Fr D Maugire

Went to watch this again today with my sister(home for Xmas) and enjoyed it more than on first viewing. I gave it a solid 7/10 before but now more tempted to move it up a score.

I think we have such expectations for what we want to see, we dont always appreciate what we get. I got much more drawn into it this time, I thought Felicity Jones was rather bland before, but actually she is quite good.

The sister hated TFA but enjoyed this, even more than I did.

SnakePlissken

pixelburp wrote: »

The two new Star Wars films had set-pieces set on exploding planets yet only one of those felt like a shocking, tragic moment.
.

I'm sorry but you can't be serious? The death of Han Solo portrayed genuine tragedy and gravitas, whereas Rogue One's cull of a half dozen vapid caricatures was both boring and predictable.

J Mysterio

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

I think its more a problem in our subconscious, we're not expecting wookies or whatever to be real so there's no problem, but when the eye seems something thats masquerading as human, the lizard brain starts screaming that something's not quite right.

personally I feel that they should have done all of tarkins scenes via reflection or grainy communications console, and leia would have been better observed from a distance recording the message that was shown in A new hope.

Nailed it.

There was something so off about Leia in particular. Its disturbing.

J Mysterio

quad_red wrote: »

I left the cinema really disappointed.

Not that there weren't great moments. The Death Star turning it's eye towards the planet as the director looked skyward, Vader's rampage at the end etc.

But the film was a mess.

There was a film contained in the first teaser. A film that promised a main character with a story arc, perhaps a struggle between the light and the dark. Her mentor character (the broken leader now 'more machine than man' with the same raspy respirator as vader to boot) asking her what she will become if she continues down this road etc.

Now? Jyn Urso has zero character progression. The allusions to the war on terror (bombing of a convoy in a middle eastern esque city, the 'water boarding' by psychic snail etc.) all stand aloof to a wobbly narrative. The light sabre/jedi connection is never fleshed out, the 'samurai' who guarded it never explained or given a chance to.

Cassian is poorly cast and has zilch charisma. Mikkelsen is criminally underused - the issue of what he has become, the darkness inside of him etc never explored.

Krennic is well cast but not given allot.

The rebel alliance leaders are all anonymous. Even Mon Mothma is just badly handled.

It wasn't awful. And I'm not saying the other cut was better or worse. But it doesn't sit easily in its frankenstein form.

Agree 100%

david75

J Mysterio wrote: »

Nailed it.

There was something so off about Leia in particular. Its disturbing.

Yeah. It's really lifeless.

StringerBell

Only watched tonight, underwhelmed overall. Some scenes here and there that I enjoyed but overall just a big meh.

Shame cause I feel like it could have been so much better, some good ideas just poorly executed. Felt like a Star Wars film though which was a positive.

Seanachai

david75 wrote: »

Yeah. It's really lifeless.

I know people who thought she was real, at least for a while. Allowing for eyesight issues it could relate to how some people are better at reading facial cues.

pixelburp

SnakePlissken wrote: »

I'm sorry but you can't be serious? The death of Han Solo portrayed genuine tragedy and gravitas, whereas Rogue One's cull of a half dozen vapid caricatures was both boring and predictable.

I was actually talking about the destruction of Jedha city vs. the entire Republic in Force Awakens; I found the former far more effective and shocking a moment because at the very least we got a sense of the place & its people before the axe fell, rather than the grandiose but hollow obliteration of multiple planets we never even visited or even got that much information about (I appreciate there were actual scenes filmed of the Republic capital but removed from the final cut). For me it was the difference between some world-building & none.

It's not like I didn't know what the Death Star was capable of either, but when it fired it still took me back because the film at least laid some emotional groundwork for the consequences of the attack. Even the structure of the scene ran had a jarring suddenness to it: quick cuts, the score going silent and the characters expressing a confused sense of 'wait, what was that?'.

Besides, Han Solo's death didn't help Starkiller base's destruction anyway: the heroes were going to win at that stage regardless, the bombs were planted with Rey & co. undetected; Solo died making a tragic attempt to reconcile with his fallen son. It was a tragic moment there's no doubt (Ford's notorious antagonism towards his most famous role notwithstanding), but I didn't find it necessarily connected with the destruction of the Sequel-sized Death Star

Glebee

Went to see it yesterday with the young lad. I liked it more that TFA from a first viewing. I remember leaving the cinema after TFA disappointed but yesterday defo left with a smile on my face. x-wings, tie fighter, star destroyers left right and centre made it for me. I loved the final hour of the battle and even they way the tied it up in the end to link it into A New Hope. A definite 8/10 for me. ( 10/10 from the young jedi who sat beside me.):)

jpm4

It's probably all been said already but....3/4 of this film was an absolute, fan pleasing mess. It was crying out to be a simple, man-on-a-mission/heist movie, Saving Private Ryan meets Mission Impossible/Oceans 11. But no, we get an hour and a half of random people rushing between planets for reasons that most people could not care less about, unless you read Star Wars novels. How about:

1) The locations of the plans should have been known from the outset, the whole set up should have been where they are, how hard it will be to get them out. That way the real point of the film is obvious to anyone from the start.

2) Mads Mikkelsen should have been the main bad guy from the get go. Have the producers never seen Hannibal or Casino Royale? He is born to be a nasty, sadistic imperial type, not a tortured good guy martyr. maybe the plans could be stored in a max security penal colony where he is in charge? Show him being an a**hole (e.g. beating some prisoners balls with a rope), that way we know to cheer when he is killed. Ditch the daddy/stardust issues, ditch the guy in white robes he is a hopeless villain.

3) If the plans are in a max security prison , makes sense that Jyn was either a prisoner there that escaped or a defector imperial - either way questionable background so creates tension later.

4) Cassian tasked with suicide mission to retrieve plans - has to take Jyn along because of 3), then assembles team of misfits to do the main deal. Think Magnificent Seven. Maybe we get some background and bonding scenes with these guys/girls so we don't feel nothing when they die?

5) More detail on how to actually penetrate the base, steal plans, diversions etc. Build tension because we see how hopeless the whole thing is.

And really that's it - the last 30 mins of the film could be kept pretty much as it is, maybe actually invent a proper reason for the rebel fleet to show up instead of no reason at all (could they not have badly f**ked the whole thing up , just showing up with no idea of what the plan was?), keep the Darth Vader scene if you really need to.

No need for daddy issues, Forrest Whitaker (even though I liked the character), text telling us which random planet they were on next, no real need for Tarkin (though I was fine with him).

Glad I have that off my chest.....I just can't figure out why it is so hard to tell a simple story these days?

Conall Cernach

J Mysterio wrote: »

Nailed it.

There was something so off about Leia in particular. Its disturbing.

I thought she looked fine for the first second or so as she turned round but her smile seemed off and then the camera lingered a second too long.

Perhaps the director and the effects guys spent so long looking at the effects that they became used to them and couldn't see that they still weren't 100% there.

Birneybau

Saw this afternoon and I don't know if it was all the booze over Christmas but it lest me devastated.

Things that let me down were Peter Cushing and the strangely sh!t title tune.

xper

I thought CGI Leia looked fine technically. Youthful, perfect complexion lends itself to this treatment and the scene was short enough for uncanny valley syndrome not to set in.

My problem was with the 'performance'. The dreamy smile and cheesy line let the moment down. She really was behaving like a Disney princess, seemingly ignorant of the desperate drama and sacrifice going on around her and totally at odds with the ballsy, hands-on character we meet immediately afterwards in Episode IV.

I'd have preferred seeing the handover of the plans to her from a distance down a corridor or something (maybe with R2, C3PO and his silver counterpart fleetingly seen at that point too). They could probably have achieved that by manipulating original footage too rather than employing pure CGI.

That all said, I thought the whole final sequence linking the film to A New Hope was brilliant and overall done better than I had dared hope.

CINCLANTFLT

I loved it! I was a child of a new hope, empire and Jedi and liked TFA... this I liked as well... I'd liked some of them to have survived...

Cantona's Collars

Blu Ray release has a placeholder date of 28 April.

david75

jpm4 wrote: »

It's probably all been said already but....3/4 of this film was an absolute, fan pleasing mess. It was crying out to be a simple, man-on-a-mission/heist movie, Saving Private Ryan meets Mission Impossible/Oceans 11. But no, we get an hour and a half of random people rushing between planets for reasons that most people could not care less about, unless you read Star Wars novels. How about:

1) The locations of the plans should have been known from the outset, the whole set up should have been where they are, how hard it will be to get them out. That way the real point of the film is obvious to anyone from the start.

2) Mads Mikkelsen should have been the main bad guy from the get go. Have the producers never seen Hannibal or Casino Royale? He is born to be a nasty, sadistic imperial type, not a tortured good guy martyr. maybe the plans could be stored in a max security penal colony where he is in charge? Show him being an a**hole (e.g. beating some prisoners balls with a rope), that way we know to cheer when he is killed. Ditch the daddy/stardust issues, ditch the guy in white robes he is a hopeless villain.

3) If the plans are in a max security prison , makes sense that Jyn was either a prisoner there that escaped or a defector imperial - either way questionable background so creates tension later.

4) Cassian tasked with suicide mission to retrieve plans - has to take Jyn along because of 3), then assembles team of misfits to do the main deal. Think Magnificent Seven. Maybe we get some background and bonding scenes with these guys/girls so we don't feel nothing when they die?

5) More detail on how to actually penetrate the base, steal plans, diversions etc. Build tension because we see how hopeless the whole thing is.

And really that's it - the last 30 mins of the film could be kept pretty much as it is, maybe actually invent a proper reason for the rebel fleet to show up instead of no reason at all (could they not have badly f**ked the whole thing up , just showing up with no idea of what the plan was?), keep the Darth Vader scene if you really need to.

No need for daddy issues, Forrest Whitaker (even though I liked the character), text telling us which random planet they were on next, no real need for Tarkin (though I was fine with him).

Glad I have that off my chest.....I just can't figure out why it is so hard to tell a simple story these days?

Have to disagree. I'd be called a super fan and it didn't please me much at all.
Strange that can service was your first complaint.

jpm4

david75 wrote: »

Have to disagree. I'd be called a super fan and it didn't please me much at all.
Strange that can service was your first complaint.

I had many other complaints.

Ipso

I agree about Mikkelsen; he can do scum bag, pyscho, tough bastard and regal very well. He should have been the baddie.

david75

Ipso wrote: »

I agree about Mikkelsen; he can do scum bag, pyscho, tough bastard and regal very well. He should have been the baddie.

Actors rail against typecasting. It wouldn't have worked here I don't think.
Though I do wish Krennic had been given the bite he had in Catalyst.
Ben Mendehslon has suggested things were rearranged and cut out though.