Star Wars: Rogue One *spoilers from post 1195*

Tony EH

FunLover18 wrote: »

You're not going to tell us what our entertainment should be

Which I'm not. Feel free to like or dislike what you wish.

FunLover18 wrote: »

but you are going to tell us whether our reasons for liking/disliking a film are good enough :rolleyes:

Which I don't think they are, in regards to this "character development" nonsense, especially when it's getting compared to 'The Force Awakens'.

Where's the problem?

riffmongous

I've got an odd complaint about the movie, too many British accents It was a bit immersion breaking for me that all of a sudden the whole universe is British, I should have just gone to the dubbed version (living abroad) and I would never have noticed

SnakePlissken

Tony EH wrote: »

Agreed.

People complaining about the characters being "lifeless" etc, what do you want them to be? 'Rogue One' is a war film, set in a war. People aren't going to be Finn type clowns with silly laugh inserts. They are on a life or death mission, not a jolly romp.

Platoon is a war film that, whilst not shying away from the horrors of conflict, still tells its story with well defined, believable characters, Rogue One simply does not, and so when the characters of Platoon are placed in peril we as viewers can emphatise, whereas by the time the curtain falls on RI all I felt for the loss of these six caricatures was apathy... that it's a war film is no excuse, hell, even Brad Pitt's Fury understood how to add realism and weight to its cast.

For some, large explosions and bright flashes were enough to satiate their wants, for others they did not, it's all subjective, no one's right and no one's wrong, if the film worked for you, great, for me it's down there with Revenge of the Sith.

.ak

Things Tony likes about Star Wars...

• Empire Strikes Back

Things Tony doesn't like about Star Wars...

• Luke Skywalker
• Leia
• Han Solo
• Ewoks
• A New Hope
• X-Wings
• Yoda
• Star Wars
• Rey
• Jar Jar Binks
• Droids
• Finn
• Rebels
• Obi-Wan
• Mon Mothma
• Lando
• Snoke
• Jabba the Hutt
• Sarlaccs
• Anakin Skywalker
• Naboo
• The Trade Federation
• Star Wars
• Qui-Gon Jinn
• The Senate
• Rancors
• Clone Troopers
• General Grevious
• Count Dooku

... Have I missed anything?

Okay, we get it! Star Wars isn't dark enough for you, and the characters not Shakespearean enough for you, and there's not enough Wars in Star Wars...

I don't think any Star wars movie will ever meet your demands...

david75

.ak wrote: »

Things Tony likes about Star Wars...

• Empire Strikes Back

Things Tony doesn't like about Star Wars...

• Luke Skywalker
• Leia
• Han Solo
• Ewoks
• A New Hope
• X-Wings
• Yoda
• Star Wars
• Rey
• Jar Jar Binks
• Droids
• Finn
• Rebels
• Obi-Wan
• Mon Mothma
• Lando
• Snoke
• Jabba the Hutt
• Sarlaccs
• Anakin Skywalker
• Naboo
• The Trade Federation
• Star Wars
• Qui-Gon Jinn
• The Senate
• Rancors
• Clone Troopers
• General Grevious
• Count Dooku

... Have I missed anything?

Okay, we get it! Star Wars isn't dark enough for you, and the characters not Shakespearean enough for you, and there's not enough Wars in Star Wars...

I don't think any Star wars movie will ever meet your demands...

You missed force awakens. Top of the list really.

J Mysterio

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Platoon is a war film that, whilst not shying away from the horrors of conflict, still tells its story with well defined, believable characters, Rogue One simply does not, and so when the characters of Platoon are placed in peril we as viewers can emphatise, whereas by the time the curtain falls on RI all I felt for the loss of these six caricatures was apathy... that it's a war film is no excuse, hell, even Brad Pitt's Fury understood how to add realism and weight to its cast.

For some, large explosions and bright flashes were enough to satiate their wants, for others they did not, it's all subjective, no one's right and no one's wrong, if the film worked for you, great, for me it's down there with Revenge of the Sith.

I like Revenge of the Sith well enough, but otherwise fully agree.

Osmosis Jones

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

This argument is neglecting one key thing: Kylo Ren is the most interesting character of them all anyway :cool:

Kylo Ren is everything Anakin should have been.

murpho999

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Platoon is a war film that, whilst not shying away from the horrors of conflict, still tells its story with well defined, believable characters, Rogue One simply does not, and so when the characters of Platoon are placed in peril we as viewers can emphatise, whereas by the time the curtain falls on RI all I felt for the loss of these six caricatures was apathy... that it's a war film is no excuse, hell, even Brad Pitt's Fury understood how to add realism and weight to its cast.

For some, large explosions and bright flashes were enough to satiate their wants, for others they did not, it's all subjective, no one's right and no one's wrong, if the film worked for you, great, for me it's down there with Revenge of the Sith.

Platoon is a film that is completely standalone without any tie in to any franchise or nods to be paid to other parts of the franchise universe.

Rogue One is very different, whilst being a standalone story it still must fit in within the Star Wars universe and therefore a lot of other characters and scenes have to be included.

The difference is stark when you consider that Platoon only focuses on one set of characters, the US Army. There is zero inclusion of any characters or scenes with those on the Vietcong side. Nor do we see leaders grappling with decisions back on Capitol Hill. The film is entirely focused on one set of characters in one location.

Rogue One, does not have that comfort, in dealing with introduction of Jyn Erso and her family and backstory. They also had to include the Empire characters such as Krennick, Moff Tarkin and Darth Vader.
Alliance Council characters and discussions were also included.

Also, Platoon just takes place in one location, Vietnam, whist Rogue One is in multiple locations.

Finallly, Platoon is a serious film that carries an anti -War message. Whilst Rogue One is still essentially a Star Wars film that will still include elements of adventure and entertainment which people on hear often seem to forget.

Tony EH

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Platoon is a war film that, whilst not shying away from the horrors of conflict, still tells its story with well defined, believable characters, Rogue One simply does not, and so when the characters of Platoon are placed in peril we as viewers can emphatise, whereas by the time the curtain falls on RI all I felt for the loss of these six caricatures was apathy... that it's a war film is no excuse, hell, even Brad Pitt's Fury understood how to add realism and weight to its cast.

'Platoon' is chocablock full of cliche. Barnes and Elias being the worst examples being mere avatars for good and evil. The characters are broad strokes. They suffice, but they are still broad strokes.

Tony EH

.ak wrote: »

Things Tony likes about Star Wars...

• Empire Strikes Back

Things Tony doesn't like about Star Wars...

• Luke Skywalker
• Leia
• Han Solo
• Ewoks
• A New Hope
• X-Wings
• Yoda
• Star Wars
• Rey
• Jar Jar Binks
• Droids (those stupid Roger Roger Droids yes)
• Finn
• Rebels
• Obi-Wan
• Mon Mothma
• Lando
• Snoke
• Jabba the Hutt
• Sarlaccs (Not the original)
• Anakin Skywalker
• Naboo
• The Trade Federation
• Star Wars
• Qui-Gon Jinn
• The Senate
• Rancors
• Clone Troopers
• General Grevious
• Count Dooku

... Have I missed anything?

Okay, we get it! Star Wars isn't dark enough for you, and the characters not Shakespearean enough for you, and there's not enough Wars in Star Wars...

I don't think any Star wars movie will ever meet your demands...

FYP. Dunno how you could deduce the above from what I've written.

Actually Star Wars is perfectly fine. There are, however, three wretched films (prequels), one that's just ok (The Force Awakens) and four that are very good to excellent (Rogue One -> Return of the Jedi).

Tony EH

david75 wrote: »

You missed force awakens. Top of the list really.

Nah top of the list are the prequels. Bloody awful films that sunk the whole ship for years.

pumpkin4life

Tony EH wrote: »

Nah top of the list are the prequels. Bloody awful films that sunk the whole ship for years.

They're bad films, but at least the ideas behind them were interesting and they had some good moments here and there. Theres one decent movie buried in three kind of crap movies.

The Force Awakens is the worst imo because its just a carbon copy of Episode 4 with an awful unlikable main protagonist and a badly miscast Adam (which is a shame, cause he's a top notch actor) Driver; just there for the nostalgia buzz.

I didn't like Rogue One, but at least it tries something new and has a story setup and feel you don't see in any of the other movies.

Tony EH

There are certainly ideas and in better hands, they could have worked. But they are scuppered by truly bad ideas that plague the whole show.

I broke my rule and watched 'Revenge of the Sith' before 'Rogue One'. It's still a terrible, terrible film, even in a fan edit that cut most of the really stupid parts out.

Simply cannot understand what George Lucas was thinking. Perhaps what was lacking throughout those films was a guy to simply say to George, "That's a really bad idea".

Theboinkmaster

pumpkin4life wrote: »

a badly miscast Adam (which is a shame, cause he's a top notch actor) Driver; just there for the nostalgia buzz.

Jaysus I really disagree there, I thought he was brilliant.

NIMAN

Quick question, as someone who hasn't seen Star Wars Rebels or read any of the books that explain the side stories.

The Cassian character, whats his back story?

He gave a passionate talk to Jyn during R1 where he went on about how he'd been fighting this fight all his life since he was 5 or 6. Has his family history in the SW universe?

Tony EH

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Jaysus I really disagree there, I thought he was brilliant.

Aye, probably one of the better things about 'The Force Awakens'. He should have kept the mask on though. Ruined the mystique when he took it off. Led to the question of why he wore it in the first place more than anything else.

NIMAN

Tony EH wrote: »

Aye, probably one of the better things about 'The Force Awakens'. He should have kept the mask on though. Ruined the mystique when he took it off. Led to the question of why he wore it in the first place more than anything else.

agree 100%, always thought that.

Mickeroo

Tony EH wrote: »

Aye, probably one of the better things about 'The Force Awakens'. He should have kept the mask on though. Ruined the mystique when he took it off. Led to the question of why he wore it in the first place more than anything else.

I thought it added to his character overall as it showed he was desperately trying to emulate Vader as he obviously didn't need the mask. At least I think that's what they were going for.

Theboinkmaster

Mickeroo wrote: »

I thought it added to his character overall as it showed he was desperately trying to emulate Vader as he obviously didn't need the mask. At least I think that's what they were going for.

yeah that's what I thought too, though might have been better reveal to leave to ep8.

Mickeroo

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

yeah that's what I thought too, though might have been better reveal to leave to ep8.

True, though I think on the other hand it was also used a device to give the audience hope he might still redeem himself...though I'm pretty sure no one was surprised when he ran through his dad.

Sad Professor

Mickeroo wrote: »

I thought it added to his character overall as it showed he was desperately trying to emulate Vader as he obviously didn't need the mask. At least I think that's what they were going for.

Yeah, he’s a Vader fanboy. It will be interesting to see what Johnson does with this. He has a very fine line to walk. I'm not sure Abrams did him any favours with that character.

Tony EH

Perhaps he just wore it because it was part of his Knights uniform? It still leads the viewer to ask the question why bother? Which might have been the intention all along? Who knows.

It'll be sort of odd in Episode VIII if he dons it again.

pumpkin4life

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Jaysus I really disagree there, I thought he was brilliant.

I dunno. He wasn't particularly scary/imitating/mysterious (the mask taking off was a very bad idea imo) to be a bad guy and he wasn't interesting/given enough depth to be a potential flawed say, complex bad guy who ends up good; which is probably how he's going to end up tbh; something like Snape in Harry Potter or something is probably what they're going for, but Alan Rickman was class at that kind of thing.

Maybe it wasn't Driver's fault tbh. Weak script, direction, dunno. I just didn't buy him.

golfball37

The casting of annakin and obi wan ruined the prequels. Christensen and mcgregor were shocking.
There were a lot of bad moments but I believe they would have been much better movies had the two main protagonists been cast better.
Apart from ep 2, nothing redeeming in that at all.

Mark Hamill

Tony EH wrote: »

Rey, uses jedi mind tricks despite the fact that she litteraly only heard heard that the Jedi weren't a myth THAT VERY DAY!

She would hardly try to use mind tricks if she didn't have any reason to believe Jedi existed though, would she? She did only just find out Jedi exist, but she has that weird vision when seeing Lukes lightsaber and then manages to resist Kylo Rens attempt to read her mind with the Force. It makes sense that she would conclude that she might be able to use the Force.

Tony EH wrote: »

Finn was kidnapped :rolleyes: by the Empire II and has about 20+ years of service under his belt. He then decides to quit because he sees them kill a few civvies and his mate Stormtrooper 837362 gets whacked. Even if he was just cleaning the jacks, what the hell did he think the New Order was about anyway? It's just stupid. A terribly written character (who may yet be redeemed in later episodes).

Where are you getting 20+ years of service from? Training maybe, assuming his character is over 25, but the movie says that was his first fully fledged mission.

Tony EH

Mark Hamill wrote: »

She would hardly try to use mind tricks if she didn't have any reason to believe Jedi existed though, would she? She did only just find out Jedi exist, but she has that weird vision when seeing Lukes lightsaber and then manages to resist Kylo Rens attempt to read her mind with the Force. It makes sense that she would conclude that she might be able to use the Force.

It's all too soon and too easy. It's completely unearned, especially so after her comment to Solo about Luke and the Jedi being a "myth". Bizarrely so as it's only a couple of decades since Luke blew the crap out of the Death Star. It's just bad writing.

Even with Rey's problems, I still like her and want to see more. But that's down to Ridley and not really the character she plays in 'The Force Awakens'. Perhaps Episode VIII will add more logic to her.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Where are you getting 20+ years of service from? Training maybe, assuming his character is over 25, but the movie says that was his first fully fledged mission.

Finn says he was kidnapped as a child and raised by the First Order. A stupid backstory in any case, but rendered even more silly with his spur-of-the-moment defection. As said, even if he was just a janitor for his entire First Order existence, what did he think they stood for?

It just doesn't make any real sense.

That being said, he could have been a good character if it was written better and not just a twee comic relief goofball.

J Mysterio

Tony EH wrote: »

'Platoon' is chocablock full of cliche. Barnes and Elias being the worst examples being mere avatars for good and evil. The characters are broad strokes. They suffice, but they are still broad strokes.

lol. You remind me of my brother. Every film he went to see in the cinema was 'sh1t'. On the rare occasion something was 'ok' or 'good', you knew it was an epic must-watch. Nevertheless, I find your criticism entertaining.

The battle between good and evil is the central conceit in most great works of art and Platoon is a masterpiece.

J Mysterio

Tony EH wrote: »

FYP. Dunno how you could deduce the above from what I've written.

Actually Star Wars is perfectly fine. There are, however, three wretched films (prequels), one that's just ok (The Force Awakens) and four that are very good to excellent (Rogue One -> Return of the Jedi).

I'm surprised you rate Rogue One as something between 'very good and excellent'.

Tony EH

J Mysterio wrote: »

lol. You remind me of my brother. Every film he went to see in the cinema was 'sh1t'. On the rare occasion something was 'ok' or 'good', you knew it was an epic must-watch. Nevertheless, I find your criticism entertaining.

The battle between good and evil is the central conceit in most great works of art and Platoon is a masterpiece.

Your brother may say that. I don't.

For the record, I like 'Platoon'.

J Mysterio

Tony EH wrote: »

Aye, probably one of the better things about 'The Force Awakens'. He should have kept the mask on though. Ruined the mystique when he took it off. Led to the question of why he wore it in the first place more than anything else.

Removing the mask actually added depth to his character and the question of 'why he wore it in the first place' is part of what makes him an interesting character.