Star Wars: Rogue One *spoilers from post 1195*

Myrddin

Tony EH wrote: »

If Disney are wise they won't let Christiansen within an asses roar of any Star Wars picture.

The prequels made everyone that was in them look bad. Portman came out later & said they nearly ruined her career. Jackson was dreadful, and McGregor (who I'm a big fan of) was made to look very, very amateur too. I think Hayden Christensen gets an unfair share of the criticism really, he's actually pretty decent in some other films. The real phantom menace was the script, it was beyond belief; Lucas, & all the yes men around him were the final nails in the coffin of the prequels.

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Christensen back in some shape or form, if done correctly. I'd like to see him let loose of Lucas's script, & work under someone who can actually direct a film.

SimonTemplar

Bacchus wrote: »

Yes, it's shortly before A New Hope. This is about the mission to get the plans for the Death Star that are ultimately used in A New Hope to destroy it. A New Hope opens with the plans still on route to the rebels so the timelines are very close.

Christensen's age (or any actors age) doesn't really matter for casting Vadar. We've only ever seen Vadar mask-less once (before he dies). No reason Vadar needs to be taking his mask off, and therefore no need for make-up to age an actor or find an actor of the right age. All they need is someone with the right frame to fill the boots. The voice actor is the bigger decision. James Earl Jones brought as much Vadar as anyone else.

I presume James Earl Jones is returning. He is 85 so hopefully his voice hasn't aged too much.

EDIT: Actually, this video is from the end of 2014 and his voice sounds excellent...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2LkdNls4bw

Tony EH

Myrddin wrote: »

The prequels made everyone that was in them look bad. Portman came out later & said they nearly ruined her career. Jackson was dreadful, and McGregor (who I'm a big fan of) was made to look very, very amateur too. I think Hayden Christensen gets an unfair share of the criticism really, he's actually pretty decent in some other films. The real phantom menace was the script, it was beyond belief; Lucas, & all the yes men around him were the final nails in the coffin of the prequels.

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Christensen back in some shape or form, if done correctly. I'd like to see him let loose of Lucas's script, & work under someone who can actually direct a film.

They made themselves look bad. A good actor can act around the difficulties of a bad film. I don't buy the excuse that they were simply "made" to look bad. They had their own hand in it too.

In any case, Christensen is tarnished as far as this series goes. He may have been "decent" (I don't really think so) in something else, but he was utterly wretched in every single scene he was in in the prequels and that's not just becasue they were bad films. It's because he is an extremely limited screen actor.

No matter what opinions on Christensen's acting that anyone may have, he was/is entirely the wrong casting choice for Darth Vader in any way, shape or form.

Zubeneschamali

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

he is Anakin Skywalker

nope nope nope nope nope.

Myrddin

Tony EH wrote: »

They made themselves look bad. A good actor can act around the difficulties of a bad film. I don't buy the excuse that they were simply "made" to look bad. They had their own hand in it too.

Not that I disagree, but I feel working under Lucas is different. If what you say were true, there should be at least SOME good performances over the course of three entire movies. Everyone involved, including some big names, came off at best, not great, at worst, damned awful. Statistically speaking, that shouldn't happen, there had to have been more to it.

Tony EH

There are snippets of good performances throughout the three films. Portman isn't bad in some scenes. Neeson is good too, as is McGregor. Chris Lee is ok in his part too, even if he could do those parts in his sleep at that stage. They're certainly inconsistent and there are definitely some scenes that need multiple further takes to get right, that's for sure.

But, nobody is as universally bad as Christiansen in those films.

McLoughlin

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I presume James Earl Jones is returning. He is 85 so hopefully his voice hasn't aged too much.

EDIT: Actually, this video is from the end of 2014 and his voice sounds excellent...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2LkdNls4bw

James Earl Jones has all ready returned he recently voiced Vader in the animated Star Wars Rebels

Theboinkmaster

Tony EH wrote: »

They made themselves look bad. A good actor can act around the difficulties of a bad film.

I disagree - if the script is sh!te & corny you have nothing to work with at all.

He gets a bad rep for star wars and is a decent actor.

Mr Freeze

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

He gets a bad rep for star wars and is a decent actor.

I too, find that hard to believe.

When I hear him described as a good actor, I think of those scenes in Ep2, the waking up from a nightmare scene, that was atrocious. The "I don't like sand" bit, the dialogue is terrible I know, but like the rest of his dialogue, he just monotone phones it in.

Tony EH

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I disagree - if the script is sh!te & corny you have nothing to work with at all.

He gets a bad rep for star wars and is a decent actor.

No. He's not.

And there are plenty of instances of actors giving good performances in bad movies.

However, the main point is, is that he was and still is the completely wrong casting choice for the role of Darth Vader, because he has already shown that he in completely incapable of handling that role.

Irrespective of how "decent" some people may think he was in other parts.

homerun_homer

It must have been tough working with a tonne of green screen and that awful dialogue. I feel bad for him but then again, he didn't look much better in that film with Nic Cage recently, Outcast.

Myrddin

Mr Freeze wrote: »

When I hear him described as a good actor, I think of those scenes in Ep2, the waking up from a nightmare scene, that was atrocious. The "I don't like sand" bit, the dialogue is terrible I know, but like the rest of his dialogue, he just monotone phones it in.

Ah the prequels are choked full of lines that make you wonder what you're doing with your time. McGregor's "Wait a minute, we're smarter than this!" line from Ep2 when they were captured springs to mind. McGregor in Ep3 was the closest thing to a decent performance in the whole prequel trilogy, & the chap certainly can act & act well. For me it's the script, & Lucas...but this is a debate that's been raging for over a decade, & will continue to do so!

I'm still quite optimistic about this, & hey, my track record is good so far

johnny_ultimate

Hell, A New Hope contains its fair share of incredibly accomplished actors - Cushing and Guinness included - failing to convincingly enunciate some turgid, barely speakable lines of complete nonsense.

Plenty of iffy performances across all the George Lucas written and directed films, and there's only so much blame one can direct towards even the least capable cast members when the raw material is so dodgy.

Tony EH

Peter Cushing and Alec Guinness were perfectly fine in their parts, even with the "shit you can type, but can't say" to paraphrase Harry Ford.

Cushing had an entire career of making shit dialogue sound good.

Seriously, what's this hard on you have for the original 'Star Wars' film Johnny?

I don't get it.

sheep?

I quite liked Chiristensen in Shattered Glass. I think he's capable with good direction and scripting.

johnny_ultimate

Have just been very disappointed when I've revisited A New Hope in recent years after adoring it as a kid (always happily called it my favourite up until a few years ago). Feels very flat and awkward in parts now. Not to say it doesn't boast many deservedly iconic moments and ideas and great sequences alongside the flabbier ones, but in terms of craft & flow Empire is pretty much on a different level entirely IMO.

I do think it kind of ruined mainstream film forever as well, but I'm not that down on it that I'll hold that against it

SnakePlissken

Tony EH wrote: »

No. He's not.

And there are plenty of instances of actors giving good performances in bad movies.

However, the main point is, is that he was and still is the completely wrong casting choice for the role of Darth Vader, because he has already shown that he in completely incapable of handling that role.

Irrespective of how "decent" some people may think he was in other parts.

You say that as though you're the ultimate authority on criticing an actor's ability :-( He was universally lauded in his role in Shattered Glass, and I think he was a fine actor in many other roles, he was simply landed with an awful script and directed by a buffoon with his mind on the next bloated set piece. No one came out of the prequels smelling of roses with the exception perhaps of Christopher Lee, HC gets the brunt of the critiscm as Anaken/Vader was the only character of any importance over those three films.

Tony EH

And it's always 'Shattered Glass' that keeps getting wheeled out to "prove" he's a good actor, even though he was hardly earth shattering in it. He was serviceable, but nothing more.

The reality is, though, is that he's an extremely limited actor that was given a career defining role that he just couldn't handle. It was a terrible casting decision for everybody concerned, including Hayden.

He may be singled out, some what unfairly I agree, but he was absolutely shit and really deserved every bit of criticism he received for the part he played in the tragedy that those films represent.

Just because Christensen has had one ok role doesn't mean he's a good actor.

That's like saying George Lucas is a good director because of 'THX-1138' and 'American Graffiti' when we all know the real story.

SnakePlissken

Tony EH wrote: »

And it's always 'Shattered Glass' that keeps getting wheeled out to "prove" he's a good actor, even though he was hardly earth shattering in it. He was serviceable, but nothing more.
.

Again, this is your opinion and nothing more, I completely disagree that he was merely serviceable in one role throughout the entirety of his career but online, everyone is entitled to their opinion... Out of interest, who would you have cast in the role that would have delivered those God awful lines with any more conviction?

Zubeneschamali

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Again, this is your opinion and nothing more

Which is why Christiansen has won a string of Oscars since Star Wars?

In the original trilogy: Hamill and Fisher were newbies and couldn't act, Lucas doesn't direct actors, so they were left high and dry. Cushing and Guinness didn't need direction, and Ford was good.

In the prequels, Neeson and McGregor, Jackson, and McDiarmid didn't need direction, Portman is good enough, Christiansen was left high and dry.

Tony EH

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Again, this is your opinion and nothing more, I completely disagree that he was merely serviceable in one role throughout the entirety of his career but online, everyone is entitled to their opinion... Out of interest, who would you have cast in the role that would have delivered those God awful lines with any more conviction?

Everything written on here is someone's "opinion". Saying something is an "opinion" doesn't invalidate or override what's being said.

It is, however, an informed opinion. Informed by what I've actually seen from Hayden Christensen himself.

As for who could do the role, looking at how Adam Driver handled Kylo Ren (a similar charcter), he would have been good enough to convey Skywalker's angst. If he'd been around, of course.

You know, I keep seeing this effort to shift the balance to it merely being the lines that were the problem and allowing Christensen off the hook. But I don't buy that for a second.

There's more to a convincing performance than just mouthing your lines.

Bacchus

Tony EH wrote: »

As for who could do the role, looking at how Adam Driver handled Kylo Ren (a similar charcter), he would have been good enough to convey Skywalker's angst. If he'd been around, of course.

Ok.... close your eyes... actually no, keep them open, you need to be able to read the next bit... Natalie Portman's character and Anakin (played by Adam Driver) are sharing a touching moment by a balcony in the sun... Adam utters the words "I don't like sand, it's coarse and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like here where everything is smooth" .... did he nail it?

I wouldn't be a huge fan of Christiansen myself but he was pretty good in Episode III and a lot of the poor performance was done to terrible writing & direction that left no room for building relationships beyond having the character explicitly tell the audience what that relationship is. Anakin, as a central character of the prequels, bore the brunt of that.

Tony EH

Bacchus wrote: »

Ok.... close your eyes... actually no, keep them open, you need to be able to read the next bit... Natalie Portman's character and Anakin (played by Adam Driver) are sharing a touching moment by a balcony in the sun... Adam utters the words "I don't like sand, it's coarse and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like here where everything is smooth" .... did he nail it?

He could have done. They're just words and words that could conceivably be said by someone.

I've heard worse!

I've said worse!

Again though. There's more to an acting performance than simply mouthing your lines.

SnakePlissken

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Which is why Christiansen has won a string of Oscars since Star Wars?

In the original trilogy: Hamill and Fisher were newbies and couldn't act, Lucas doesn't direct actors, so they were left high and dry. Cushing and Guinness didn't need direction, and Ford was good.

In the prequels, Neeson and McGregor, Jackson, and McDiarmid didn't need direction, Portman is good enough, Christiansen was left high and dry.

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to put across, Jackson and Portman were undoubtedly the two worst performers of the trilogy, not their fault whatsoever as they're proven talents, they just had nothing to work with... In a thread for a new Star Wars movie haven't we wasted enough time talking about the shameful prequels? There's already several threads on those as there is.

Mickeroo

Tony EH wrote: »

He could have done. They're just words and words that could conceivably be said by someone.

I've heard worse!

I've said worse!

Again though. There's more to an acting performance than simply mouthing your lines.

Gordon Street? I once knew a girl who lived on Gordon Street...

SnakePlissken

Tony EH wrote: »

They're just words and words that could conceivably be said by someone.
.

You and I have obviously very different opinions on what makes a fim great ie. The script.

Tony EH wrote: »

As for who could do the role, looking at how Adam Driver handled Kylo Ren (a similar charcter), he would have been good enough to convey Skywalker's angst. If he'd been around, of course.

But he wasn't around? It's very easy for one to criticise an actor and claim him as a misguided casting choice when you don't have to worry about providing a single alternative to support your claim.

FunLover18

Tony EH

SnakePlissken wrote: »

You and I have obviously very different opinions on what makes a fim great ie. The script.

There's more to a great film than just a script.

Plenty of great scripts have been made into terrible films.

SnakePlissken

Tony EH wrote: »

There's more to a great film than just a script.

I didn't for a moment say that was the case, I however believe that the script is more than "just words".

Tony EH wrote: »

There's more to a great film than just a script.

Plenty of great scripts have been made into terrible films.

Really? Name one. Or better yet, name one great movie that had an awful script?

Tony EH

SnakePlissken wrote: »

I didn't for a moment say that was the case, I however believe that the script is more than "just words".

No one said it was "just words".

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Really? Name one.

Um...of the top of my head, 'Hancock' was a good script. But a pretty awful film. 'I am Legend' too, for that matter, which went from great book, to good script to rubbish film. Both starring another limited actor, strangely enough. :pac:

Usually, though, a bad script will become a bad film. There's no surprises there.

But, from the page to the screen there are plenty of opportunities for things to be fucked up.