8 new bridges for Cork

kub

DylanGLC wrote: »

Although I have no problem with the bridge, I think it would be better suited connecting from the area outside Kent Station to the new skyscraper area of land. Wasn't the whole point of the new Kent station developments to open it up to the city centre more? This would get people from the train station to that site much faster, especially when it is likely to house thousands of employees, on top of hotel guests.

Good idea, but the old Harbour Commissioners building and lands behind it have been sold and that site is now in the planning process for another tall building.

mire

Karla Flabby Sickness wrote: »

The main footfall is on Patrick St. There's a bridge that directly links it to MacCurtain St. It couldn't be more accessible unless you replace/add-to Patrick's bridge with a bridge that crosses over the traffic.

If you are standing in the middle of Patrick's St, what is the reason for going to MacCurtain St? What is there unique on MacCurtain St to draw you there? Until there's a relevant answer to that for enough people, then you can build an extra 2 or 3 bridges, and it's likely to not make much of a difference.

As per the demise of North Main St, if you don't have something to attract people, access isn't the issue.

But, it's not simply a matter of considering the person standing on Patrick Street - and how 'quick' they can get to an area. Areas that have high levels of pedestrian accessibility (which is not just about one or two physical links, but about quality, ease, visual accessibility, route attractiveness, environmental quality) generally have higher footfall and succeed more. This is a fairly widely accepted and proven principle in urban design and planning. I agree with you fully on the need to have destination qualities - but in order to have success in commerce/businesses/footfall terms, places need to be connected.

Look at Cork city centre - the places with maximum and multiple pedestrian connections - from all sides - do well - OP St, Huegenot Quarter, Pana etc.
THe ped bridge at Patrick's quat wont solve MacCurtain Street's issues, but It will help.

j8wk2feszrnpao

mire wrote: »

But, it's not simply a matter of considering the person standing on Patrick Street - and how 'quick' they can get to an area.

I was using Paticks St as it has the largest footfall; if people there don't use the bridge to cross to MacCurtain St, then a bridge further down, with much less footfall isn't going to be of much benefit (certainly not to the extent of the expectations that some may have).

mire wrote: »

Areas that have high levels of pedestrian accessibility (which is not just about one or two physical links, but about quality, ease, visual accessibility, route attractiveness, environmental quality) generally have higher footfall and succeed more.

Doesn't seem to be working for North Main St. If a place doesn't have the attractions for people, they won't visit it.
MacCurtain St doesn't have the quality retail shops and crossing two busy roads may make it an unattractive route. I can't see how a new bridge, in a light footfall area, that doesn't resolve the issues above, will make much of any difference.

End of the day, it'll probably be built. So we'll find out
Is the plan for the bridge itself submitted? I wonder of they could make it pedestrian friendly (to go over the traffic, and give a higher view of the city from it) something like the bridge that used to go over the Bandon Road Roundabout?

mire

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I was using Paticks St as it has the largest footfall; if people there don't use the bridge to cross to MacCurtain St, then a bridge further down, with much less footfall isn't going to be of much benefit (certainly not to the extent of the expectations that some may have).


Doesn't seem to be working for North Main St. If a place doesn't have the attractions for people, they won't visit it.
MacCurtain St doesn't have the quality retail shops and crossing two busy roads may make it an unattractive route. I can't see how a new bridge, in a light footfall area, that doesn't resolve the issues above, will make much of any difference.

End of the day, it'll probably be built. So we'll find out
Is the plan for the bridge itself submitted? I wonder of they could make it pedestrian friendly (to go over the traffic, and give a higher view of the city from it) something like the bridge that used to go over the Bandon Road Roundabout?

Anything that enhances an area's accessibility improves its pedestrian permeability, and ultimately, its destination qualities. It's not simply about asking "if there is a new bridge will I use it?" - it's about the cumulative impact of improving the access/appearance/usability of an area. And of course, the bridge alone won't transform the area; I don't think I suggested that in any case - but it's part of a suite of measures/initiatives for the area - involving two way traffic, wider footpaths, landscaping, materials, seating, lighting; the street has also improved its range of uses very dramatically in recent time s- so the offer is improving anyway.

North Main Street is actually a case that proves this out - its overall accessibility has in fact decreased in recent years through lane closures and the completion of the pedestrian bridge at Cornmarket street - these have made it easier for example for pedestrians to avoid north main street and have made the Coal Quay area much more accessible - and attractive - and commercially successful - think of the impact that the new ped bridge at the top of Cornmarket street, the works at Daunt Square, and the new pedestrian access from Paul street via the shopping centre have had? Also, and as a result o the area's physical improvements, the area's destination qualities have improve dramatically. The opposite has happened in north main street.

j8wk2feszrnpao

mire wrote: »

Anything that enhances an area's accessibility improves its pedestrian permeability, and ultimately, its destination qualities. It's not simply about asking "if there is a new bridge will I use it?" - it's about the cumulative impact of improving the access/appearance/usability of an area. And of course, the bridge alone won't transform the area; I don't think I suggested that in any case - but it's part of a suite of measures/initiatives for the area - involving two way traffic, wider footpaths, landscaping, materials, seating, lighting; the street has also improved its range of uses very dramatically in recent time s- so the offer is improving anyway.

North Main Street is actually a case that proves this out - its overall accessibility has in fact decreased in recent years through lane closures and the completion of the pedestrian bridge at Cornmarket street - these have made it easier for example for pedestrians to avoid north main street and have made the Coal Quay area much more accessible - and attractive - and commercially successful - think of the impact that the new ped bridge at the top of Cornmarket street, the works at Daunt Square, and the new pedestrian access from Paul street via the shopping centre have had? Also, and as a result o the area's physical improvements, the area's destination qualities have improve dramatically. The opposite has happened in north main street.

Of course it's a cumulative range of improvements that helps, that's just basic. But this thread is about the new bridge proposal.

And the new bridge at the top of Cornmarket street proves nothing for the street regeneration itself. It had a face-lift and became a place people wanted to go to. It has a market and added a LIdl/T-KMax. Add those to MacCurtain St and you'd see an increase in footfall (without access being an issue).

Cork is small. North Main Street is accessible as ever; you'd swear there were barriers implemented. It's easy to get to both places if people wanted to, but they don't tend to flock there.

Anyway, done on this. Becoming a bit circular at this point. Later.

opus

Presume this was the reason behind the new bridge or is it just a coincidence



€50m spend will transform Cork's Metropole Hotel

mire

opus wrote: »

Presume this was the reason behind the new bridge or is it just a coincidence



€50m spend will transform Cork's Metropole Hotel

This site was earmarked for redevelopment for many years. It was part of the thinking and the logic. I'd be interested in hearing from those who consider the pedestrian bridge as being pointless - do you think that the people investing €50 million in this scheme consider the pedestrian bridge to be similarly pointless? Don't think so. Hotel developers understand that pedestrian accessibility/permeability is a key ingredient for city centre hotel business. 

(btw, munstermagic - if you  really believe that the increased pedestrian accessibility of the Coal Quay area, including the new bridge at Pope's quay, has nothing to do with the the uplift of Cornmarket Street- in terms of footfall/commercial activity, then I'm afraid you really don't understand how places work and how circulation and accessibility in urban areas relates to urban dynamics.)

j8wk2feszrnpao

mire wrote: »

(btw, munstermagic - if you  really believe that the increased pedestrian accessibility of the Coal Quay area, including the new bridge at Pope's quay, has nothing to do with the the uplift of Cornmarket Street- in terms of footfall/commercial activity, then I'm afraid you really don't understand how places work and how circulation and accessibility in urban areas relates to urban dynamics.)

munstermagic11 wrote: »

the new bridge at the top of Cornmarket street proves nothing for the street regeneration itself. It had a face-lift and became a place people wanted to go to. It has a market and added a LIdl/T-KMax.

Seems you really don't understand basic English as I didn't state what you are trying to imply.

Delighted if the planned work at the Metropole goes ahead. This is the type of development that aids an areas growth, not a single bridge alone (in case you have further difficulty understanding this and wish to misrepresent what I'm saying).

lisasimpson

opus wrote: »

Presume this was the reason behind the new bridge or is it just a coincidence



€50m spend will transform Cork's Metropole Hotel

One of the best developements yet. Great to see and so tourist friendly as well. Cross the bridge to the bus station and off to the airport. And not far from the proposed office developements.

ScrubsfanChris

The "M" hotel seem like a cool concept, only 3 stars but the focus put on making the place more high tech and bit less grandiose (stuffy?) to attract the younger crowds.

j8wk2feszrnpao

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

The "M" hotel seem like a cool concept, only 3 stars but the focus put on making the place more high tech and bit less grandiose (stuffy?) to attract the younger crowds.

Something like the citizenM would be nice.

D'Agger

I like the announcement and the bridge makes sense if there's going to be a new hotel & expansion to the metropole. What I will say is this development & the bridge should tie in with a proper platform for busses to use here. The Aircoach causes consternation on account of people throwing their cars anywhere and everywhere, causing traffic jams.

If you're putting a new bridge and the proximity to City-link-busses is a draw to the hotel, then a proper platform for this needs to be addressed.

What the bridge might allow for is people to be dropped around the bus station or Merchants quay at the lights - wheel your bag across and no need to drive over and halt traffic.

the beer revolu

D'Agger wrote: »

What the bridge might allow for is people to be dropped around the bus station or Merchants quay at the lights - wheel your bag across and no need to drive over and halt traffic.

Not likely to happen.
It's not in most people's nature to drop off where they won't cause an obstruction rather than right at the spot.
I live near the Firkin Crane. People would rather cause traffic chaos dropping and picking up at the door rather than park up a few streets away and walk.
Or look at any school.

DylanGLC

The hotels look great! I'm not sure if that is the final design for the bridge or not but that also looks really good, especially compared to the previous mock up (I know that was just to highlight the bridge's position more than anything but still). Very exciting

D'Agger

the beer revolu wrote: »

Not likely to happen.
It's not in most people's nature to drop off where they won't cause an obstruction rather than right at the spot.
I live near the Firkin Crane. People would rather cause traffic chaos dropping and picking up at the door rather than park up a few streets away and walk.
Or look at any school.

True, but one can dream. That road could be improved upon massively and could be done as an extension of the improvements from the new train terminal. When you think about it - the train, bus and aircoach platforms are quite close to one another

opus

the beer revolu wrote: »

Not likely to happen.
It's not in most people's nature to drop off where they won't cause an obstruction rather than right at the spot.
I live near the Firkin Crane. People would rather cause traffic chaos dropping and picking up at the door rather than park up a few streets away and walk.
Or look at any school.

Yeah I'm living close to there as well & have seen the fun although it doesn't compare with cycling along Dyke Parade when the kids are being picked up, had never seen triple parking before!