SSM Referendum - Has Anyone Actually Changed Their Mind? MOD Warning 1st Post

darkpagandeath

desertcircus wrote: »

A definition of balance that requires us to treat lies and truth as equally deserving of airtime is a bad thing, yes.

What lies ?

gravehold

jobbridge4life wrote: »

http://uk.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/201393/rs_500x227-131003121719-mean-girls-21.gif

That may be too gay a joke

Spot on representation of the yes campaign.

jobbridge4life

WoolyJumper wrote: »

I'll probably be up at the crack of dawn to vote, have an anxious Friday, anxious Saturday and hopefully celebrations Saturday night. After that whatever the out come at least I will be able to stop talking about being gay, thinking about being gay, and hearing other peoples opinions about gay people. Honestly I've had to talk about or think about my sexuality as much as I've had to in the last few weeks. It's safe to say whether Pro, against or indifferent we are all tired of this campaign.

Oh I am going to vote and then drink and drink and drink. I hope to wake up sometime sunday with a yes vote confirmed.

desertcircus

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What lies ?

1. That the amendment will guarantee gay couples a right to surrogacy.
2. That the amendment will abolish heterosexual marriage.
3. That the amendment will change the law to allow gay people to adopt.
4. That the amendment will require churches to host gay weddings.
5. That the evidence shows that children do best with a mother and father present.
6. That being raised in anything other than a "normal" family structure is actively damaging.
7. That civil partnership is the same as marriage.
8. That marriage and parenthood are fundamentally connected.
...

I could go on, but you get the picture. Incidentally, if you can find a single argument from the No campaign that isn't a lie, can you let me know? I still haven't found one.

StewartGriffin

Massive victory celebration Saturday night...

AND....

the Eurovision is on Sunday night!

Part-ay!!

StewartGriffin

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Massive victory celebration Saturday night...

AND....

the Eurovision is on Sunday night!

Part-ay!!

Coincidence?

I think not.

gravehold

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Massive victory celebration Saturday night...

AND....

the Eurovision is on Sunday night!

Part-ay!!

It's going to be an awful eurovision if NO wins, seems like only gay people care about it

StewartGriffin

gravehold wrote: »

It's going to be an awful eurovision if NO wins, seems like only gay people care about it

Not at all. The Eurovision is great craic.

Canard

I really think people are lacking perspective a bit. As already said, the Yes side aren't acting like this for fun (and as an aside, it's a minority of them -- as said, the No side are far from angelic, but that's standard, so no one even notices). It has an enormous personal importance to every LGBT person in the country and those close to them. I can't think of anything comparable, and the most frustrating side of it is how fickle people are without trying to understand why people are so emotional over it. For those who so casually change to a No vote, life goes on. Not quite so for LGBT people. I can't imagine how ashamed I'll be of Ireland if this doesn't pass.

Another thing I don't get is the people voting No to spite the government while thinking it will pass anyway? Why bother? That tiny, dare I say petty victory (meant in as inoffensively as possible) is nothing compared to the stakes for the Yes side. And it definitely wouldn't have been close to 80/20 without campaigning given that people just wouldn't have turned out in as high numbers as they hopefully will now.

gravehold

Canard wrote: »

It has an enormous personal importance to every LGBT person in the country

No it doesn't, I could care less if it fails, it effects me in no way directly.

FionnK86

Cant wait for Saturday for this whole sh*te to be over and done with.....

Calibos

Out of 2 parents, 3 brothers, 9 aunts and uncles and 20 cousins (about 30 family members of voting age) I am pretty sure 28 will be voting Yes.

Who in the family is voting no?

The only aunt and uncle with a gay son of course!!

Why?

Born Again Christians of course!

I'm not at all confident of a YES win never mind the landslide the polls were showing. If the polling was done in the main towns and cities its not too surprising that one might have polled 78:22 in favour of YES. However, if you polled in small county towns the numbers might be reversed with 78:22 in favour of NO. Neither is it beyond the realms of possibility that 78:22 simply shows that 28% of those polled will lie to a pollster because they don't want to admit they are a NO voter. I'd say that if YES wins it'll be by the skin of its teeth.

Miall108

mickstupp wrote: »

And yet you're thinking of voting no out of spite...?

I started out as Yes because I couldn't see any rational reason to vote no. Haven't seen a single rational argument to vote no since then.

I started out as Yes myself aswell but whatever about the No side, it was inevitable the tactics they were going to use but the YES side have decided to completely throw their toys out of the pram at people who have decided to exercise their right to Vote No to which Im quite disgusted about and as someone who has never had any particularly strong views on the subject it has made me think that perhaps these campaigners dont deserve to have their legislation brought in if thats they way are carrying on. As of now I havent decided what to do, I may not even vote at all and if I was to Vote No, it wouldnt be necessarily because I agree with anything the No side has to say but it would merely be to just leave things as they are as I certainly dont want to be voting for a shower of hooligans who as it is are sabotaging their own campaign unnecessarily.

Canard

gravehold wrote: »

No it doesn't, I could care less if it fails, it effects me in no way directly.

Umm, if it doesn't affect you then you're not LGBT and I'm pretty sure what I said was that it affects LGBT people.

gravehold

Canard wrote: »

Umm, if it doesn't affect you then you're not LGBT and I'm pretty sure what I said was that it affects LGBT people.

I am in the LGBT grouping

keeponhurling

The OP asked has anybody actually changed their mind during the debate, the answer judging by the many posts on this thread is Yes. Quite a few people have changed their mind.

Miall108

K4t wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their own free opinion, but nobody is entitled to have that opinion free from criticism and ridicule. Freedom of thought and expression goes both ways. Opinions cannot be immune from being challenged by other opinions. Yes, everyone has a right to vote. Have No voters had their voting rights taken away now? Nope, didn't think so.

So your saying its ok to intimidate and bully people in public just because of the side they are voting for?

Intimidating and Bullying people in any walk of life is just not on, just because either side of the fence has strong views doesnt suddenly make it ok.

frostyjacks

desertcircus wrote: »

1. That the amendment will guarantee gay couples a right to surrogacy.
2. That the amendment will abolish heterosexual marriage.
3. That the amendment will change the law to allow gay people to adopt.
4. That the amendment will require churches to host gay weddings.
5. That the evidence shows that children do best with a mother and father present.
6. That being raised in anything other than a "normal" family structure is actively damaging.
7. That civil partnership is the same as marriage.
8. That marriage and parenthood are fundamentally connected.
...

I could go on, but you get the picture. Incidentally, if you can find a single argument from the No campaign that isn't a lie, can you let me know? I still haven't found one.

In fairness, there's a degree of truth in every one of those points. Every utterance from the no side just seems to have been twisted and regurgitated by the yes campaign to maximize offence.

Canard

Miall108 wrote: »

I started out as Yes myself aswell but whatever about the No side, it was inevitable the tactics they were going to use but the YES side have decided to completely throw their toys out of the pram at people who have decided to exercise their right to Vote No to which Im quite disgusted about and as someone who has never had any particularly strong views on the subject it has made me think that perhaps these campaigners dont deserve to have their legislation brought in if thats they way are carrying on. As of now I havent decided what to do, I may not even vote at all and if I was to Vote No, it wouldnt be necessarily because I agree with anything the No side has to say but it would merely be to just leave things as they are as I certainly dont want to be voting for a shower of hooligans who as it is are sabotaging their own campaign unnecessarily.

But have you thought about why? You're going to vote to deny people their rights based on the fact that they are fighting for those rights. Why should people sit and behave like quiet children and hope the majority of the country, who are not affected by the outcome, judge them worthy of something as basic as the right to marry? Even the way you've worded your posts sounds like a mother scolding a child. It's not as simple as exercising your right to vote no; the consequences of a no vote are awful for LGBT people, especially the younger ones. You can't talk about voting No as if it doesn't carry a pretty huge weight. Besides, as is being said in this thread, it's a small minority of Yes campaigners behaving like this - so please don't be taken in by it, or at least try to see how equally if not more underhanded and dirty the No side is being.

gravehold wrote: »

I am in the LGBT grouping

Well then I have no idea how it's not affecting you or how you'd be okay with a No vote, but fair enough I guess.

gravehold

Canard wrote: »

Well then I have no idea how it's not affecting you or how you'd be okay with a No vote, but fair enough I guess.

I am straight so ssm doesn't effect me

Canard

gravehold wrote: »

I am straight so ssm doesn't effect me

Then you aren't in the LGBT grouping...

gk5000

L1011 wrote: »

All good reasons - if any were affected in the slightest by the referendum. But they aren't.

Most people who are married also have children.

Most gay couples do not have children.

gravehold

Canard wrote: »

Then you aren't in the LGBT grouping...

But I am, trans people can be straight and the T is right there in LGBT

Miall108

Canard wrote: »

But have you thought about why? You're going to vote to deny people their rights based on the fact that they are fighting for those rights. Why should people sit and behave like quiet children and hope the majority of the country, who are not affected by the outcome, judge them worthy of something as basic as the right to marry? Even the way you've worded your posts sounds like a mother scolding a child. It's not as simple as exercising your right to vote no; the consequences of a no vote are awful for LGBT people, especially the younger ones. You can't talk about voting No as if it doesn't carry a pretty huge weight. Besides, as is being said in this thread, it's a small minority of Yes campaigners behaving like this - so please don't be taken in by it, or at least try to see how equally if not more underhanded and dirty the No side is being.

Logical reasoning does come into it to a large extent to which I started out as a Yes but still, Im not going to be put under pressure or bullied by people into what I vote and that is exactly why my view has turned to a very soft Yes, when people are insulting you left right and centre when like myself and Im sure a large amount of others whom the matter doesnt entirely concern and are merely voting out of courtesy but being pressured into chosing. More than likely I may vote yes or else I wont at all but Im not going to be pressured. Thats precisely the reason why the Polls have narrowed as Fence Sitters are being pressured into voting Yes and are being turned off the idea of voting at all/changing sides

gk5000

Lollipops23 wrote: »

How is voting against equal rights for LGBTQ people NOT bigotry? Seriously? You're flat out saying you're better than they are and they are count less as human beings.

Fish+chips is better than fish+fish or chips+chips.....or do you disagree.
Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Canard

Miall108 wrote: »

Logical reasoning does come into it to a large extent to which I started out as a Yes but still, Im not going to be put under pressure or bullied by people into what I vote and that is exactly why my view has turned to a very soft Yes, when people are insulting you left right and centre when like myself and Im sure a large amount of others whom the matter doesnt entirely concern and are merely voting out of courtesy. More than likely I may vote yes or else I wont at all but Im not going to be pressured. Thats precisely the reason why the Polls have narrowed as Fence Sitters are being pressured into voting Yes and are being turned off the idea of voting at all/changing sides

Of course, and I (and I'm sure everyone who the vote affects) am very grateful for those who are taking the time to vote Yes even though it doesn't affect them. I'm sorry if people have insulted you during the campaigns, but I hope you know it's not the majority who'd insult you - we thank people like you I think people tend to sort of bully out of desperation though, people really want this to pass, and 99% of people I've seen have been very respectful in their canvassing.

gk5000

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Marriage and children are indeed interrelated however in the context of this referendum they aren't and that is because of the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015. This act expressly permits adoptions by lesbian and gay couples. As the adoption authority and the referendum commission have said the passage or failure of this referendum will have no impact on adoption law.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/adoption-process-to-remain-same-regardless-of-vote-authority-chief-1.2208714

I hope you might consider voting yes.

Most people who are married also have children.

Most gay couples do not have children.

Is about the male and female parental role models which are complementary.

Berserker

I am very close to switching from a 'Yes' to a 'No', being honest. As the campaign has progressed, I have become disillusioned with the 'Yes' campaign. They claim to be all for equality and fairness, yet we continuously see bullying, intimidation and harassment of those who express their right to Vote 'No'. I am very uncomfortable with that. The 'No' campaign is very much like the 'No' campaign in the Scottish independence referendum, in that their greatest strength is the fact that their opponent seems to have this desire to self-destruct.

Rightwing

I've changed from voting No to not voting at all. I have serious misgivings about this whole referendum, ranging from a waste of money to a waste of time but maybe the homosexuals deserve their day in the sun.

20Cent

Any examples of this bullying and harassment from the yes side. Seems a lot of people taking offence at criticism and disagreement.