SSM Referendum - Has Anyone Actually Changed Their Mind? MOD Warning 1st Post

Pompey Magnus

gravehold wrote: »

Everyone should vote, telling people not to vote is a bug bear of mine. It's your civic duty to vote

It's your civic duty to be an informed voter. If someone can't be bothered to do even just the basic level of research prior to a referendum, just wants to give a bloody nose to the Government or in the case of a General Election just goes in to tick the party box their grandfather and father happened to pick then we'd live in a healthier Republic if they just stayed home.

gravehold

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

It's your civic duty to be an informed voter. If someone can't be bothered to do even just the basic level of research prior to a referendum, just wants to give a bloody nose to the Government or in the case of a General Election just goes in to tick the party box their grandfather and father happened to pick then we'd live in a healthier democracy if they just stayed home.

If they feel they are not getting answers from the side that want to change the constitution they have the duty to protect it.

Atm the yes side aren't giving answer to questions, they just try to shame you and call you names

MathDebater

Berserker wrote: »

I am very close to switching from a 'Yes' to a 'No', being honest. As the campaign has progressed, I have become disillusioned with the 'Yes' campaign. They claim to be all for equality and fairness, yet we continuously see bullying, intimidation and harassment of those who express their right to Vote 'No'. I am very uncomfortable with that. The 'No' campaign is very much like the 'No' campaign in the Scottish independence referendum, in that their greatest strength is the fact that their opponent seems to have this desire to self-destruct.

You're right. Very similar parallels between the two referendums. Although the debate has been largely toxic, one good thing that has come from all this is the sheer number of young people getting involved. Long may that continue.

Haven't changed my mind. I'll be voting yes.

Duiske

gravehold wrote: »

Went from a yes even though I really dislike the yes campaign as I have gay friends, then a AH mod banned me from posting in the thread even though I broke none of the rules he just disliked my opinions.

So no not sure I can't not vote as I think it's everyones civic duty to vote so will decide on the day but thinking no and just telling my friends I voted yes

I've heard some ridiculous reasons why someone might vote no, but considering voting no because you've got the hump with a mod on Boards.ie is beyond bizarre.

sunshine and showers

gravehold wrote: »

Everyone should vote, telling people not to vote is a bug bear of mine. It's your civic duty to vote

It's your civic duty to vote in an informed manner. Educate yourself, otherwise abstain (as is your right) or spoil your vote. "If you don't know, vote no" is a pet peeve of mine.

MathDebater

Voting no because a mod on an anonymous internet forum banned you. Lol.

gravehold

Duiske wrote: »

I've heard some ridiculous reasons why someone might vote no, but considering voting no because you've got the hump with a mod on Boards.ie is beyond bizarre.

Cause they yes side won't answer questions they just wave them away and try to put you down for asking them. To be silenced on the thread when even the mod said I had no actionable posts but users didn't like me asking questions so I am no longer allowed to post in the thread.

It doesn't give me hope to change the constitution when the side that wants change won't answer and then silence questions.

sunshine and showers

gravehold wrote: »

Cause they yes side won't answer questions they just wave them away and try to put you down for asking them. To be silenced on the thread when even the mod said I had no actionable posts but users didn't like me asking questions so I am no longer allowed to post in the thread.

It doesn't give me hope to change the constitution when the side that wants change won't answer and then silence questions.

Ask me your questions. I will answer them as best I can.

gravehold

MathDebater wrote: »

Voting no because a mod on an anonymous internet forum banned you. Lol.

He didn't ban me he even said in pm that I had no actionable posts, just if I posted again I would be banned for breaking the mods rule for me not to post again.

So I was silenced for asking questions not breaking rules. Why should I trust a side that would silence you for asking questions.

gravehold

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Ask me your questions. I will answer them as best I can.

That would be off topic for this thread, just posting the reason why I changed the vote, granted only reason I was yes was for some friends so the yes side not being able to discuss their reasons and the ramifications of a yes vote doesn't leave me with enough confidence to let the constitution be altered atm

WoolyJumper

gravehold wrote: »

That would be off topic for this thread, just posting the reason why I changed the vote, granted only reason I was yes was for some friends so the yes side not being able to discuss their reasons and the ramifications of a yes vote doesn't leave me with enough confidence to let the constitution be altered atm

So one mod bans you on an anonymous form and you think that is somehow an overall reflection of the yes campaign. I don't get it tbh. But fair enough if you can't post your questions here, PM me and i'll more than happy to address them through that

Pluflk

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Ask me your questions. I will answer them as best I can.

What was the basis for making civil partnerships different to civil marriage in the first place in terms of these 160 statutory differences? Are these differences based simply on the interpretation of the constitution to mean heterosexual marriage, or are they alterable without requiring change to the constitution?

Jesus Wept

Pushing the 'maybe' campaign hard now.

ronivek

Pluflk wrote: »

I have not expressed my vote nor endorsed support for the actions of the No campaign. I've simply criticised the conduct,

I suggest you read past the first line of the post you are quoting. You have simply repeated yourself & are ironically exhibitng the exact behaviour I've just provided reasons for why some on the fence voters seem to feel turned off supporting a yes vote.

I read your entire post; was there some point you were making in the midst of it that actually has some relevance to the actual issue the referendum is dealing with?

And if my post where I mention both people voting 'Yes' or 'No' for the wrong reasons as being just as bad as each other pushes you or anyone else to vote 'No'; then I truly do despair about our society.

Mint Aero

The yes siders in this thread regurgitating "i haven't seen one rational argument from the no side" reminds me of the Prius San Francisco episode of South Park. Where Prius owners drive around closing their eyes in a condescending manner as they speak about how they couldn't continue harming the environment anymore. And then thanking each other for being so smug and great.

The episode descended into them smelling their own farts. Such smugness is hilarious in all walks of life. The farts accumulated into a gigantic clusterf*ck of fowl smelling smugness that nearly killed everyone.

So clearly and rationally, vote no. Thaaaaaaanks *closed eyes*

Wrongway1985

I don't think this is a human rights issue at all, a human rights issue would be condemning same sex relationships and not welcoming them in society like in Russia.

But it seems a referendum over redefining marriage has unfortunately turned into Gay rights vs Homophobes.

To those dismissing that its not about kids, surrogacy etc. that is the next step as proven by places where SSM is legal its not scaremongering by the no side.

The whole thing of every childs needs a mother and father cant buy into that either; the environment of the child is more important.

The word Equality is being pushed around a lot but when you think of it, Marriage for hundreds of years is based on 2 people being totally unequal one person being a man and one being a woman.

I was firmly on the Yes side but no one should be discriminated against for holding one opinion over another too and with the 2 sides clashing I feel as I've gotten caught somewhere in the middle looking on welcoming the end of this overblown debate.

20Cent

Gay people could adopt for the last twenty years. Anyone remember that being an issue? I don't but once they want to marry it suddenly is.

Turtwig

Hulk Hands wrote: »

It's been a poor enough job by a lot of the yes side (I wont say campaign as most of the abuse and intimidation hasnt come from actual people invoved in the campaign). They've taken the un-loseable campaign ,where their opponents literally havent a logical argument to stand on, and are inadvertently making a race of it due to their terrible self righteous attitude and poor arguments. It'll pass comfortably obviously, but it probably would've been a lot more comfortable had a lot of people just kept their noses out of the debate. The yes campaign literally has everything on its side - logic, humanity, original public support, government support, media support. Just play it safe and clean and it wins by a huge margin

That's not the way politics works. Facts become mutable, changeable by emotional sentiment. Emotional sentiment is what convinces people. The 'No' side is doing what every 'No' campaign on most civil rights issues have done. Play into emotional sentiment and sow seeds of doubt.

It's very hard to debunk a false statement concisely. It's even harder when for every 'fact' there's going to be someone disputing it creating the impression of contestable truths, 50/50 splits. Deep divides. The 'No' side doesn't have a leg to stand on with its red herrings and some of them likely know this. They also know that it's the best way to create fear, uncertainty and doubt about the referendum. Ultimately the best way to get people who mean the best for society to vote for the wrong reasons is to scare them into it. What better tool to use than children?

js1234512345

Insult to gay brothers having to vote
should be an emergency government tomorrow to
iron out any legal and law differences.
simple as that ,no fuss get on with.


but have this farcical referundum
that stinks of politics and insult to intelligence
with use of words like Equality and so on

By definition gay marriage and hetro marriage
can never be the same.
as to marry an animal or inanimate object.
no more gay pride we are all the same
yeah right ,proud of selfs so pride in fact
gay marriage is very different to other forms

Ozymandius2011

desertcircus wrote: »

Could you explain exactly what aspects of the Yes campaign have been bigoted? Everything I've seen of the Yes campaign has been dignified, positive and appealing to a sense of fairness and equality. Everything I've seen of the No campaign, by contrast, has been an absolute ****storm of nasty fictions that prey on fear (gay couples will be entitled to surrogacy! This change will allow gay adoption!), insult vast swathes of the electorate (not having a mother and a father is so awful we need to keep the gay marriage ban!), and just outright lie in the hope that they'll frighten enough people into voting No (children raised by gay couples suffer! This change will abolish heterosexual marriage! Churches will be forced to conduct gay weddings!).

I've been watching, and in the entirety of this campaign I've seen not one relevant and true argument from the No campaign. I mean that: every single point they've raised has either been irrelevant (this referendum won't impact on adoption by gay people), untrue (there's no such thing as a constitutional right to surrogacy) or both. I haven't seen a single argument made by the No side that's both relevant and true. Literally not one; everything has been a mountainous tirade of venomous lies and misdirection, pumped out by a campaign characterised by a vicious contempt for the Irish electorate. They know that in a fairly conducted campaign, they'd lose heavily thanks to the basic sense of fairness possessed by the Irish electorate, but they reckon enough people are gullible enough to buy into their garbage. That's their modus operandi in this campaign - they think they can lie their way to victory. The Iona Institute made no submissions when the wording of this amendment was being discussed, despite professing to care a great deal about it; they knew that if they showed their hand, they'd have no case to run with, so they kept their mouths shut and waited while less dishonest contributors worked on it. They made no contribution so that they could lie to the Irish people when the referendum came.

I think its just a matter of homophobes not liking being called what they are.

I am voting yes. I am lgbt so could be directly impacted by this. Was always voting yes.

js1234512345

One must vote.......never voted nor never will.
idiot if believe in this makey up brand of
democrazy.
has not been a true form of democracy since
ancient greece that stood for something
beyond politics.


As goes for Equality ,are ye men or mice........
That need the current government or system
to tell you what you are or are not.

only bitches need to be told what they are
Real men know exactly what they are.

Come monday after ,yes vote will count for
very little .life goes on.
All the brainless idiots will find something
else to fight the fight for.
And be as annoying as before.
still be homophobes and impact that....
if i hear because it impacts me anymore,
like todays "going forward"
Dont trust enda kenny one bit
not sincere and electioneering
doesnt care either way

silverfeather

Not going to waste time analyzing that drivel above I just reported it. This thread, if possible, is less credible that the original SSM thread. Fighting for equality is not 'being a bitch'.

js1234512345

Typical bitch responce.


From one gay man to another if thats what you are

I dont need to be told what i am
by anybody ,politican ,government
dont need no militant LGBD member
to tell me to be and how to be proud.
should be a given .....

nor to i do bull**** ,which this referendum has become
all about
just PUSSY Politics.....
come monday after vote what is different
who is the bigger idiot.....

silverfeather

js1234512345 wrote: »

who is the bigger idiot.....

Anyone?



Do have a lovely weekend, JS

js1234512345

But again how can you be fighting for equality.....

BULL****.......

I am not hetero , i am not my sister ,brother,
mother or father .
so how the hell can we be equal and the same
when by definition very different.

Should of picked a different word than equality
as therein lies the ambiguity.
need very clear wording.
hence que the bull****.

silverfeather

js1234512345 wrote: »

need very clear wording.

Let's be lectured to by you about clarity.

jivedude

As goes for Equality ,are ye men or mice........
That need the current government or system
to tell you what you are or are not.



So refreshing to hear someone else say my mind out loud! Time people live their lives and stop waiting on government or society to define them!!!

desertcircus

gk5000 wrote: »

8.
Most, nearly all (currently) married people have and want children - so how can you disavow the link between marriage and children?

And strangely, the majority of gay couples do not have nor want children - IMHO.


...for starters.

Most married couples own or want to own their own home too, but nobody thinks home ownership is a part of marriage. You can be an unmarried parent or a childless married couple extremely easily; the two are not connected.

silverfeather

jivedude wrote: »

As goes for Equality ,are ye men or mice........
That need the current government or system
to tell you what you are or are not.



So refreshing to hear someone else say my mind out loud! Time people live their lives and stop waiting on government or society to define them!!!

So much for the constitution.

Let's burn this mother!:)

desertcircus

Mint Aero wrote: »

The yes siders in this thread regurgitating "i haven't seen one rational argument from the no side" reminds me of the Prius San Francisco episode of South Park. Where Prius owners drive around closing their eyes in a condescending manner as they speak about how they couldn't continue harming the environment anymore. And then thanking each other for being so smug and great.

The episode descended into them smelling their own farts. Such smugness is hilarious in all walks of life. The farts accumulated into a gigantic clusterf*ck of fowl smelling smugness that nearly killed everyone.

So clearly and rationally, vote no. Thaaaaaaanks *closed eyes*

Did you have a point to go with that precis of an episode of South Park? It kind of seems like you think that a satirical cartoon about American Prius drivers farting a lot means Irish people should vote against marriage equality, but of course there's no way anybody would actually think that.