Dublin's home advantage in football

Godot.

Poll to follow

Is it time to stop this unconditional home advantage and treat them like every other county in the province?

My opinion - I'm tired of it. The competition in Leinster is suffering. Make Dublin go to Offally/Longford etc and the Championship would be much more competitive and exciting.

Imagine if a top Champions League team in soccer like Barcelona or Real Madrid got to play every game at home. It's a ridiculous thought. They'd win it year in, year out.

degsie

It's all about the mulah.

Nib

It's a crazy situation. In what other sport would you see this blatant favoritism? Until other counties stand up for themselves, this crap is going to continue for a while yet. It's all about the money, fairness and a level playing field for all teams seems to only apply to teams outside the pale.

In before "stop yer whingin' and get on with it".

Dirty Dingus McGee

They should have to play outside Dublin but the problem is that even though it would be beneficial for Offaly or Longford to play them in Tullamore or Longford it won't happen because more money can be generated having the game in Croke Park.

It would be great to see Dublin playing in a packed provincial stadium rather than a half filled Croke Park.

GAAman

Is it just me, or in recent years has this gone from an annoying background noise to a deafening joke? You forgot to suggest splitting Dublin in two btw, that's usually the cheese accompaniment to this whine.

Here's a suggestion in reply, look up the Leinster voting on this very question over say the last ten years.

Pay particular attention to the hypocrisy of it, I won't even tell you what specifically I'm referring to you can look for yourself.

Here's a hint, go count how many times a county Dublin are playing against that particular year want the match out of Croker, but the previous year when it was someone else voted FOR Dublin to play IN Croker.

Makes me laugh every single time :rolleyes:

GAAman

I'd find it interesting to see how many of their fans would travel.

GAAman wrote: »

... You forgot to suggest splitting Dublin in two btw, that's usually the cheese accompaniment to this whine.

Well it would certainly solve this issue

fullstop

Yes. Open draw like every other province and first out of the hat plays at home.

GAAman

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Well it would certainly solve this issue

Nah, then you'd just get people complaining one of the Dublins are playing in Croker too much :pac:

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

ThunbergsAreGo

GAAman wrote: »

Is it just me, or in recent years has this gone from an annoying background noise to a deafening joke? You forgot to suggest splitting Dublin in two btw, that's usually the cheese accompaniment to this whine.

Here's a suggestion in reply, look up the Leinster voting on this very question over say the last ten years.

Pay particular attention to the hypocrisy of it, I won't even tell you what specifically I'm referring to you can look for yourself.

Here's a hint, go count how many times a county Dublin are playing against that particular year want the match out of Croker, but the previous year when it was someone else voted FOR Dublin to play IN Croker.

Makes me laugh every single time :rolleyes:

Exactly there was a vote on this and only Laois voted to move games out of Croke Park.

Most Dublin fans would welcome playing outside of Croke Park

Patser

As a Dub, I agree with op. It's nearly 10 years since the trip to Longford, and that was a great day. Scorching hot, on a bank holiday weekend, fantastic vibe (and nearly beaten. Even longer since the 2 trips to Tipp to play Kerry.

There are a lot of Dublin fans who'd love to travel, and every game in Croker has made the place lose it's special feel. It's very rare to get a full house now, struggles well below half full a lot.

But it's all about the money. 30,000 fans in a quiet, hollow Croker still equals more cash than 17,000 crammed into a hopping Pearse in Longford. And then you've to add on the other big earners - corporate and premium levels. Those tickets are sold on a season basis, with the promise of Dublin games. Move the matches out and fewer will be sold.

Wait and see. Even the use of a Double header with footballers and hurlers on the 31st will struggle to half fill Croker. It's a bank holiday weekend and a lot of people will try get away for a break, not hang around for 1st game. But by the same token, a bank holiday away game would guarantee a buzz and large travelling support. GAA won't care, all about the bottom line.

pajero12

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ah now, Dublin not playing a home game outside Croker since 07 is hardly 'something to moan about'

Not to mention Croker isn't even Dublins home ground!

GAAman

naughtb4 wrote: »

Exactly there was a vote on this and only Laois voted to move games out of Croke Park.

Most Dublin fans would welcome playing outside of Croke Park

I have been all over the country for games, and even when Dublin play in Croker I make a 300 mile round trip. Imagine my amusement when hearing other counties say Dublin fans don't travel :pac:

GAAman

pajero12 wrote: »

Ah now, Dublin not playing a home game outside Croker since 07 is hardly 'something to moan about'

Not to mention Croker isn't even Dublins home ground!

Now now, you're in serious danger of letting the facts get in the way of a rant :pac:

Dirty Dingus McGee

pajero12 wrote: »

Ah now, Dublin not playing a home game outside Croker since 07 is hardly 'something to moan about'

Not to mention Croker isn't even Dublins home ground!

It is Dublin's home ground now.

Parnell Park is only used sparingly these days.

pajero12

Patser wrote: »

As a Dub, I agree with op. It's nearly 10 years since the trip to Longford, and that was a great day. Scorching hot, on a bank holiday weekend, fantastic vibe (and nearly beaten. Even longer since the 2 trips to Tipp to play Kerry.

There are a lot of Dublin fans who'd love to travel, and every game in Croker has made the place lose it's special feel. It's very rare to get a full house now, struggles well below half full a lot.

But it's all about the money. 30,000 fans in a quiet, hollow Croker still equals more cash than 17,000 crammed into a hopping Pearse in Longford. And then you've to add on the other big earners - corporate and premium levels. Those tickets are sold on a season basis, with the promise of Dublin games. Move the matches out and fewer will be sold.

Wait and see. Even the use of a Double header with footballers and hurlers on the 31st will struggle to half fill Croker. It's a bank holiday weekend and a lot of people will try get away for a break, not hang around for 1st game. But by the same token, a bank holiday away game would guarantee a buzz and large travelling support. GAA won't care, all about the bottom line.

Great Post, Such a shame, That day in Pearse Park was epic

Hibbeler

Put it this way there's too many Leinster championship games in particular being played in Croke Park full stop. That's even without the Dublin home games. In fact you could also probably argue that the likes of Meath and Kildare play there too often also and the fact is is that the other county grounds in Leinster have largely suffered for it. Navan and Newbridge are shocking kips and Louth just doesn't have a ground.

Not only Dublin but Meath and Kildare need to play more outside Croker as they are the 3 biggest crowd pullers in the province so that the grounds can improve

LiamNeeson

I recall they played Derry in Clones in 2003, it was a novelty seeing Dubs out of Dublin

http://inpho.ie/media/s4vqfPWqQSvev_dKg_AxyQ..a?wosid=EvOarwJKCJXNVPhMHZdohw&woinst=1&ts=WbuJe-oLhXc083eabeEY7LRe-2hISyQmFawWU5uFn2A.a

salmocab

This somehow tends to fall into an anti Dublin debate, the reality is that its all the counties in Leinster that are keeping the Dubs in Croker, Dublin fans would be happy to get an away day, I doubt the team would be too worried by a trip out of Dublin. The only losers would be the coffers of the county boards and thats why the Dubs are kept in Croker. Half empty stadiums look terrible and kill the atmosphere. That said can't see it making much difference to the outcome of the Leinster championship but it is a handy stick to beat the Dubs with.

keeponhurling

Yep, it's up to the Leinster council to set fixtures and venues, so time for county boards to back up their players.

nice_guy80

Its funny, because most counties grant from the Leinster GAA would be affected if the dubs were moved out if Croker.

Only Dublin get a separate grant from Croke Park and the Irish Sports Council.

Look it up, if you want.

That is the main reason no county will vote for a change.

bruschi

Thing is, this isnt Dublins fault, and I for one think it is an unfair stick to berate Dublin or their fans with. They play where they are fixed to play.

In saying that, there is no reason these games cant be taken out of Croke Park. To be honest, there are far too many games in Croke park, and the allure or pride or whatever in playing there is little by little eroding each year as more and more games are scheduled there for the sake of it.

People talk about the capacity of Croke Park and how it is the only ground that can accommodate the Dubs. This is far from correct, as figures from their first round games for the last few years show.

Dublin have played in double headers for their first round Leinster game for the last 4 years (all of them being quarter finals. The attendance was in 2014 - 40,960; 2013 - 33,008; 2012 - 31,000; 2011 - 41,786. thise are the figures for the games with 4 counties playing. Now even say Dublin had 2/3rds of the attendance there, and thats being generous, it still isnt that much.

why not play these as stand alone games in either Portlaoise (27k), Nowlan Park (24k), Dr Cullen Park (21k)? Or the opposing counties home venue (within reason, Drogheda at 4k is totally unreasonable). Getting the atmosphere back into the championship is badly needed, and they can do it without sacrificing income if they really want to.

corny

Different month, same thread. Do ye not get tired of debating this stuff?

nice_guy80

Last time the Dubs played Longford down in Longford they barely got out of the place.

RoscommonTom

they should make them go below to limerick if they get Kerry in the semi this year, well see how good they are then without the home advantage

klairondavis

Meath are playing a Leinster Championship game in Navan for the first time in 20 years this year. Kildare haven't had a home Leinster Championship game since Louth travelled to Newbridge in 1995. Whatever about Dublin that's a ridiculous state of affairs for two of the traditionally better supported counties. How long before the proposal for an M50 stadium raises its ugly head again?

salmocab

bruschi wrote: »

why not play these as stand alone games in either Portlaoise (27k), Nowlan Park (24k), Dr Cullen Park (21k)? Or the opposing counties home venue (within reason, Drogheda at 4k is totally unreasonable). Getting the atmosphere back into the championship is badly needed, and they can do it without sacrificing income if they really want to.

think these capacities have actually been cut down because of some safety report but your point still stands

iDave

Vast majority want it to happen including Dubs. Only people who dont want it happen are the spineless members of the Leinster Council. No change until they change.

nice_guy80

klairondavis wrote: »

Meath are playing a Leinster Championship game in Navan for the first time in 20 years this year. Kildare haven't had a home Leinster Championship game since Louth travelled to Newbridge in 1995. Whatever about Dublin that's a ridiculous state of affairs for two of the traditionally better supported counties. How long before the proposal for an M50 stadium raises its ugly head again?

The GAA have put in reduced capacities in county grounds.
Maybe its because they want to force big games into Croke Park?

and then they haven't really spent money on upgrading the likes of Navan and Newbridge

Uncle Ben

No

12 teams in Leinster with each team having 2 votes each. If the other teams have a problem with the Dubs playing in Croker they could quite easily rectify the problem.
They're crying crocodile tears.

salmocab

RoscommonTom wrote: »

they should make them go below to limerick if they get Kerry in the semi this year, well see how good they are then without the home advantage

playing away doesn't seem to bother them in the league so I don't think its going to affect them too much in the championship. 3 All Irelands in 20 odd years would hardly suggest that Croker is a massive boost for the Dubs.
I really think that the advantage to Dublin is overplayed a bit and becomes a stick to beat the Dubs with, the reality is that there are probably only 4 or 5 teams in with any realistic chance of winning Sam any year and Dublin will nearly always be one of them regardless of where games are held.

keeponhurling

salmocab wrote: »

the reality is that there are probably only 4 or 5 teams in with any realistic chance of winning Sam any year and Dublin will nearly always be one of them regardless of where games are held.

Don't think anyone's disputing that.
The issue really is the earlier rounds when Croker is half empty.
Why not play Offaly or Longford away, games the Dubs would win handy.

The big tests later in the championship would still be in Croker, and the capacity is needed at that state

salmocab

keeponhurling wrote: »

Don't think anyone's disputing that.
The issue really is the earlier rounds when Croker is half empty.
Why not play Offaly or Longford away, games the Dubs would win handy.

The big tests later in the championship would still be in Croker, and the capacity is needed at that state

Im all for playing away from Croker and I do think its a bit stacked against the smaller counties but I don think that ultimately it has any real bearing on who wins SAM, I was replying to a post that suggested Dublin playing Kerry in a semi in Limerick would show the Dubs up, which I doubted.

blackcard

It is obviously not Dublin's fault but they should be made to play away games up to the semi-finals. It is just fairness. Home advantage is worth a few points, not going to make a difference to the results in the near future

nice_guy80

Uncle Ben wrote: »

12 teams in Leinster with each team having 2 votes each. If the other teams have a problem with the Dubs playing in Croker they could quite easily rectify the problem.
They're crying crocodile tears.

if each county votes for the Dubs leaving Croke Park then their funding gets slashed. that is the reality.

Dublin's doesn't.

Patser

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Last time the Dubs played Longford down in Longford they barely got out of the place.

To be fair, we also barely got into the place. Longford asked for that game after spending a few million on upgrading Pearse Park, and claimed a capacity of 19,000. After the fixture was announced health and safety reduced that down to 13,000 - and I think about 15,000 squeezed in. But I remember the rush/shortage of tickets.

Leinster needs another mid-size, proper stadium. Upgrade Portlaoise to a 30,000 seater, with a premium/corporate level to keep the big spenders happy, and that'll provide a proper alternative.

nice_guy80

Patser wrote: »

To be fair, we also barely got into the place. Longford asked for that game after spending a few million on upgrading Pearse Park, and claimed a capacity of 19,000. After the fixture was announced health and safety reduced that down to 13,000 - and I think about 15,000 squeezed in. But I remember the rush/shortage of tickets.

Leinster needs another mid-size, proper stadium. Upgrade Portlaoise to a 30,000 seater, with a premium/corporate level to keep the big spenders happy, and that'll provide a proper alternative.

what wrong with a rush for tickets?

generates a great atmosphere and buzz about a game

Patser

nice_guy80 wrote: »

what wrong with a rush for tickets?

generates a great atmosphere and buzz about a game

When there's a huge shortage, and many fans miss out, because a county board over-stated their capacity, that's a problem.

As I and others have said, at the end of the day the GAA will look at it in cold hard cash terms. 35,000 in Croker makes for a poor atmosphere, as theplace is only half full, but it makes a lot more monet than 15,000 crammed into Pearse stadium.

Leinster lacks a proper mid-sized stadium. Portlaoise has just about the right capacity but it is a poor stadium facilities wise, and not the money maker Croker is. GAA should put it into the IRFU's plans for the Rugby World Cup and get them and the Govt to pay for it's upgrade

nice_guy80

Patser wrote: »

When there's a huge shortage, and many fans miss out, because a county board over-stated their capacity, that's a problem.

As I and others have said, at the end of the day the GAA will look at it in cold hard cash terms. 35,000 in Croker makes for a poor atmosphere, as theplace is only half full, but it makes a lot more monet than 15,000 crammed into Pearse stadium.

Leinster lacks a proper mid-sized stadium. Portlaoise has just about the right capacity but it is a poor stadium facilities wise, and not the money maker Croker is. GAA should put it into the IRFU's plans for the Rugby World Cup and get them and the Govt to pay for it's upgrade

Leinster GAA does not need a mid sized stadium
there is no economic reason for it.

just use the bloody grounds already there

Patser

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Leinster GAA does not need a mid sized stadium
there is no economic reason for it.

just use the bloody grounds already there

Croker for every Dublin match it is then.

ProudDUB

Uncle Ben wrote: »

12 teams in Leinster with each team having 2 votes each. If the other teams have a problem with the Dubs playing in Croker they could quite easily rectify the problem.
They're crying crocodile tears.

Bingo.

The Leinster Council decide to fix the games in Croke Park, not Dublin GAA and not the GAA itself. The Leinster Council voters are made up of delegates from all 12 counties. They are the ones to decide on all this, not some evil cabal of Dubs.

To all the people giving out about this - be it the likes of Pat Flanagan, or keyboard warriors on the interwebz - I ask this.....what are YOU doing to address this with YOUR county board? Who are you talking to? What phone calls are you making?

Giving out about it on the internet, or to the media, is not going to fix the issue. Only the Leinster counties themselves can fix the issue. Unfortunately, they don't want to, as they want the cold hard cash instead. That's not Dublins fault.

washman3

Many deluded Mayo fans thought Limerick was a home game for Kerry last year. The blatant lack of focus cost them that semi final and possibly their best ever chance of winning Sam with this present bunch.
If other Leinster counties want to change the current set-up they have the power to do so, as has been pointed out many times.

Borders no.2

washman3 wrote: »

If other Leinster counties want to change the current set-up they have the power to do so, as has been pointed out many times.

Very true. Its a case of wanting it both ways for some counties they need the money that Dublin generate but also want to get home games.

I think for the good of the Leinster championship the counties have to vote for change. A decade or so ago the Leinster Championship was strong with Meath and Kildare and the likes of Laois, Wexford, Westmeath, Offaly on occasion capable of winning it or being very competitive. Obviously Dublin have got their house in order and the others are struggling to keep up. If the Leinster championship is to have any chance of survival it needs a fresh impetus that bringing Dublin out of Croke Park may provide.

Given Dublin's abundance of talent and the strangehold they are starting to build in the Leinster underage competitions, other counties need to be given something realistic to aim for to.

ProudDUB

Borders no.2 wrote: »

Very true. Its a case of wanting it both ways for some counties they need the money that Dublin generate but also want to get home games.

I think for the good of the Leinster championship the counties have to vote for change. A decade or so ago the Leinster Championship was strong with Meath and Kildare and the likes of Laois, Wexford, Westmeath, Offaly on occasion capable of winning it or being very competitive. Obviously Dublin have got their house in order and the others are struggling to keep up. If the Leinster championship is to have any chance of survival it needs a fresh impetus that bringing Dublin out of Croke Park may provide.

Given Dublin's abundance of talent and the strangehold they are starting to build in the Leinster underage competitions, other counties need to be given something realistic to aim for to.

True, but at the end of the day, we are only talking about one game....Dublins quarter final game. The Leinster final and semi finals are played in Croke Park, regardless of who is playing in them. When was the last time Dublin failed to reach a semifinal? So realistically we are only talking about one game, as all the other games are played in Croke Park. Shifting the quarterfinal elsewhere, is not going to make all that much of a difference. By all means do it, if a suitable venue can be found, but it won't be the making or breaking of the Leinster championship.

The first thing I would do is get rid of the seeding system. Put all 12 counties into an open draw. Look how well that has worked in Ulster. It is not the sole reason Ulster is so competitive, but it certainly helps. Rewarding the 4 counties who make the semi finals with a BYE into next years quarter finals AND, keeping them all apart until the semi finals, just gives advantages to the stronger counties. It also makes it harder for the weaker counties to make a break through. If that means that Dublin has to meet Meath or Kildare in the first round, then so be it. It also makes it much easier for another county on the other side of the draw to go on a run.

People harp on about our dominance in Leinster now. But it wasn't that long ago that we were losing in the semi final to Meath, or we needed a last minute BB free to beat Kildare in the 2011 Leinster final, or we needed a dodgy own goal by the keeper to beat Wexford in 2012. A more open draw makes it easier for other counties to go on a run and have a championship that they can build on.

nice_guy80

ProudDUB wrote: »

True, but at the end of the day, we are only talking about one game....Dublins quarter final game. The Leinster final and semi finals are played in Croke Park, regardless of who is playing in them. When was the last time Dublin failed to reach a semifinal? So realistically we are only talking about one game, as all the other games are played in Croke Park. Shifting the quarterfinal elsewhere, is not going to make all that much of a difference. By all means do it, if a suitable venue can be found, but it won't be the making or breaking of the Leinster championship.

The first thing I would do is get rid of the seeding system. Put all 12 counties into an open draw. Look how well that has worked in Ulster. It is not the sole reason Ulster is so competitive, but it certainly helps. Rewarding the 4 counties who make the semi finals with a BYE into next years quarter finals AND, keeping them all apart until the semi finals, just gives advantages to the stronger counties. It also makes it harder for the weaker counties to make a break through. If that means that Dublin has to meet Meath or Kildare in the first round, then so be it. It also makes it much easier for another county on the other side of the draw to go on a run.

People harp on about our dominance in Leinster now. But it wasn't that long ago that we were losing in the semi final to Meath, or we needed a last minute BB free to beat Kildare in the 2011 Leinster final, or we needed a dodgy own goal by the keeper to beat Wexford in 2012. A more open draw makes it easier for other counties to go on a run and have a championship that they can build on.

The fact that all counties must travel to Dublin to play Dublin makes it a very unfair system. People just won't travel up.

This has been brought up at various county board meetings and the response from the top table is always the same - we need the Leinster GAA money generated from Dublin playing in Croker to run coaching programmes.

The GAA need to find a way to plug the hole if Dublin are finally moved out of Croker.

I think Dublin Gaels are being very insular in their views on this.
More competitive games in Leinster for Dublin would actually help them.

ThunbergsAreGo

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I think Dublin Gaels are being very insular in their views on this.
More competitive games in Leinster for Dublin would actually help them.

I don't think many Dublin fans are disagreeing though

nice_guy80

naughtb4 wrote: »

I don't think many Dublin fans are disagreeing though

They are on this thread

Kavrocks

No

nice_guy80 wrote: »

They are on this thread

Care to point them out?

Nib

Kavrocks wrote: »

Care to point them out?

Post #5.

A wall of rhetoric and bullshit.

elefant

Some good posts from Dublin fans on this thread, and some others beings oddly defensive. I don't anyone is saying this is any one from Dublin's fault. It's the fault of the Leinster Council.

And don't start with all the 'all the other counties voted against it' shtick. Some old men in suits voted to have more money and to send some other county's team to the slaughter in Croker. I wonder if the 30ish players in each county squad were to vote before the fixtures each year what the result would be? Of course Dublin will vote to play at home, they'd be stupid not to.

The discussion on Off the Ball on this was comical. The kind of mental gymnastics on display were boggling. Everything from doing it for the players, to 'someone think of the children (who won't be able to get tickets)'. It's all about money, and the voting patterns that keep all Dublin games in Croke Park are testament to this.

Time for the GAA to start trying to live up to its ethos and put players first for once.

Kavrocks

No

Nib wrote: »

Post #5.

A wall of rhetoric and bullshit.

Seriously? You just sound butthurt now.

Anyway I'm off to start my campaign to have all Dublin's football league games played in Croke Park.