Dublin's home advantage in football

kona

Dangerous Man wrote: »

This is incredibly tedious. I only come here for the Championship stuff but this is a big turn off to be honest.

Tbh if this is the attitude people have teams are beaten before they even get on the croker pitch against the dubs. Of course it doesn't apply to the teams who have character.

Patser

As someone else posted, Dublin playing away from Croker would involve ( probably) a single game a year, the quarter final (like today).

And like today it should have been on the road. Dublin would still (probably) have won. But it would have given a huge sense of occasion, much more of an atmosphere in whichever stadium, and possibly a tighter game - as the home team would have felt that sense of pride/occasion being at home to compete.

However I maintain that the lack of a financially viable alternative in Leinster ( use Wikipedia to compare capacity stadium alternatives in other provinces to Leinster) and county board interests are far more at play than anything else.





If today had been an away game, I'd have far more of an excuse to not having to leave the pub early-ish to go home so as to be able to deal with a 2 year old tomorrow, as opposed to a night on.the tear in Longford. It's all about priorities.

Patser

Ps Tipp crushed Waterford in a near equally embarrassing score today. It is early in the championship yet, so mismatches are possible.

RoyalCelt

corny wrote: »

The winner of which will meet Kerry or Donegal and get slaughtered. So in essence what you've done is allowed a ****e team win a provincial championship but done nothing to address the falling standards in Leinster. I might have missed something but i thought that was point (improving standards).

When did I say I'm against investing in leinsters youth structures? I'm all for the GAA redirecting the millions they invest into Dublin underage coaches towards the same thing for the rest of the counties but we all know it won't happen.

And the leinster winner would play a qualifier team in the quarters so chances are the winner would be competitive. And even if they weren't it's still better in many ways. You'd would have many years where a team who can't beat Dublin would win leinster and most of them would celebrate it like an all Ireland the way westmeath did in 2004. Scenes like that will never happen as long as the status quo continues. The GAA will never give equal funding to each county.

So rotating the dubs around will breed life into the championship for 3 years and Dublin would only walk it once in 4 years. It's a quick fix and would be a great success. Leinster counties would also improve no end having a sniff of success for once.

RoyalCelt

Very Bored wrote: »

I don't see any reason to suggest Dublin will win the next ten Leinster championships in football. In ten years, less even, Dublin could be back to having a relatively mediocre team. I wouldn't say that my own county would win the next ten Leinster championships in hurling and I doubt any team will in football either.

I'll tell you why they will. In 2005 they had a mediocre team right up until 2010. Didn't stop them winning 5 in 6. Since then the effects of the collosul funding they've received has been seen. They became a great team and won the next 4. This year will be 5. They have a never ending conveyor belt coming through and unless all other counties received similar funding for underage they will never be able to catch up. The gap is widening and most leinster teams can't even get their best players to commit anymore. Longford were missing a load for example. Same as louth and carlow plus many more.

And who can blame them. Why should they give up their lives to be humiliated by the dubs. No glory in that. So yeah barring a freak defeat to meath, laois, or Kildare Dublin will win the next 10. They won the last 9/10 when things were far more even.

doc_17

Flukey wrote: »

The match was in a neutral venue. It was not in Parnell Park or Pearse Park.

Oh sweet Jesus. Oh no. Neutral. What county was it in? Actually never mind. I can't afford the time to read the inevitable dumbass reply.

aidan24326

Flukey wrote: »

The match was in a neutral venue. It was not in Parnell Park or Pearse Park.

Ah now Flukey, enough of this.

Croke Park may not be technically Dublin's 'home ground', but Dublin have played pretty much all of their championship games there for the last 8 years or so and now play most of their home league games there aswell.

I'm not saying it's Dublin fault and I'm well aware that a lot of Dublin supporters would love a few away days at this stage. But there's no denying that playing all these games in Croke Park is an advantage to Dublin. That cannot be disputed.

It shouldn't just be about the money in what is supposed to be an amateur sport. Let Dublin play in Pearse Park, Tullamore, Aughrim or wherever else if they're drawn away. I know most Dublin people would welcome this. A packed provincial venue would make for a far better atmosphere than a near-empty Croke Park, and would at least give the underdogs a chance of being competitive rather than the slaughter we saw today.

RoyalCelt

aidan24326 wrote: »

Ah now Flukey, enough of this.

Croke Park may not be technically Dublin's 'home ground', but Dublin have played pretty much all of their championship games there for the last 8 years or so and now play most of their home league games there aswell.

I'm not saying it's Dublin fault and I'm well aware that a lot of Dublin supporters would love a few away days at this stage. But there's no denying that playing all these games in Croke Park is an advantage to Dublin. That cannot be disputed.

It shouldn't just be about the money in what is supposed to be an amateur sport. Let Dublin play in Pearse Park, Tullamore, Aughrim or wherever else if they're drawn away. I know most Dublin people would welcome this. A packed provincial venue would make for a far better atmosphere than a near-empty Croke Park, and would at least give the underdogs a chance of being competitive rather than the slaughter we saw today.

Well said.

Just like to add that it often comes across the wrong way when we complain about Dublin always playing in Croke Park. Any of us with sense know that it's not dublins fault, both fans or the team.

And as seen by the attendance for the double header most are voting with their feet. An awful lot of Dublin fans left at half time in the football. I think that speaks volumes.

mg1982

For a team like Dublin the championship doesnt begin until August bank holiday weekend. What comes before are cannon fodder.

RoyalCelt

mg1982 wrote: »

For a team like Dublin the championship doesnt begin until August bank holiday weekend. What comes before are cannon fodder.

And thats why I'm saying they should be rotated around the provinces. They'd be starting their championship a lot sooner!

kona

Leitrim are ****, we should have put a 80,000 seater stadium there. At least then it's neutral no advantage to anybody.

mg1982

Connacht and Munster arent exactly competitive though. Listen i dont blame Dublin, i think its great that they are raising the bar for Gaelic football and they are great to watch. Its just unfortunatley other counties dont have the resources to compete. Apart from the few exceptions, Kerry Cork Donegal etc.

Flukey

aidan24326 wrote: »

But there's no denying that playing all these games in Croke Park is an advantage to Dublin. That cannot be disputed.

Oh but it can. A very simple thing disputes it: FACTS! Go back through the thread and you'll find where I and others have posted them. Then read other posts where people have ignored them, in favour of trotting out the same tired old line. We may have won a lot of Leinster titles, but not much more than that, and not as much as other counties have. We've not a bad record there, but it pales in significance when you stand it up against the likes of Kerry or Kilkenny. Now there is something that cannot be disputed.

RoyalCelt

kona wrote: »

Leitrim are ****, we should have put a 80,000 seater stadium there. At least then it's neutral no advantage to anybody.

If they Played all their matches in it then obviously it would be an advantage to them

kona

RoyalCelt wrote: »

If they Played all their matches in it then obviously it would be an advantage to them

Probably won multiple all Ireland's. lets just built 80k seaters in every county

mg1982

The Dublin fans are voting with there feet. There not enjoying watching there teams playing non competitive games in Croke park. Getting Dublin to play away is an option. But there still a far superior team than anything else in Leinster.

Flukey

RoyalCelt wrote: »

And thats why I'm saying they should be rotated around the provinces. They'd be starting their championship a lot sooner!

Rotating them around the provinces is a ridiculous idea. Leinster counties themselves would say the Leinster Championship would be devalued if Dublin were not in it. Ask any county that has beaten them. There would always be the "Ah, but Dublin weren't playing in it that year" factor that could be thrown at the winning counties. These things are cyclical. Dublin have dominated before to a point where you could see no end to it, but it did end. This period of dominance will end too. That is down to the other Leinster counties to do. They've often done it before and often will again.

kona

Flukey wrote: »

Rotating them around the provinces is a ridiculous idea. Leinster counties themselves would say the Leinster Championship would be devalued if Dublin were not in it. Ask any county that has beaten them. There would always be the "Ah, but Dublin weren't playing in it that year" factor that could be thrown at the winning counties. These things are cyclical. Dublin have dominated before to a point where you could see no end to it, but it did end. This period of dominance will end too. That is down to the other Leinster counties to do. They've often done it before and often will again.

Yes but let progress happen from Leinster improving and not from Dublin going backwards

It starts with underage, put a system in place that encourages skills and winning, not this ****e of oh ya lost but you took part.

mg1982

Flukey wrote: »

Rotating them around the provinces is a ridiculous idea. Leinster counties themselves would say the Leinster Championship would be devalued if Dublin were not in it. Ask any county that has beaten them. There would always be the "Ah, but Dublin weren't playing in it that year" factor that could be thrown at the winning counties. These things are cyclical. Dublin have dominated before to a point where you could see no end to it, but it did end. This period of dominance will end too. That is down to the other Leinster counties to do. They've often done it before and often will again.

i dont think dublin have ever won 9 of the last 10 leinster championships in there history. this is unprecedented.

salmocab

As I said earlier in this thread before it exploded after yesterdays game, I would be happy to have the Dubs play outside Croker but lets not kid ourselves, if this game had of been played in Longford the scoreline wouldn't have changed by 20 points to make it a close game. In fact I didn't think the Dubs played particularly well yesterday but I suspect that its very difficult to get up for a game that was won after 10 minutes. The problem with Leinster isn't the Dubs being too strong its that everyone else has fallen off over the last 10 years, yes Dublin receives a lot more funding than other counties but it also has a lot more players, teams and clubs to organize competitions and facilities for. On top of that both codes have to be properly funded which the other counties in Leinster don't all have on as close a par as in Dublin. Dublin Hurling was targeted a long time ago by Leinster as somewhere that life could be pumped into a poor enough provincial system that needed another big gun and a lot of funding was targeted at that specifically.
The other provincial systems are hardly all great comps with winners that could be one of many teams, in fact only Munster hurling and Ulster football have any real merit. Moving Dublin out of Leinster and rotating them through the provinces as has been suggested would only serve in the short term to place them on a pedestal and after that when the inevitable decline in Dublin football or the strengthening of other counties happens then what happens move them back in till they excel again?
The provincial system is broken and to be honest I don't know how it can be fixed but this isn't Dublins fault. Probably it needs a massive overhaul and not just moving Dublin out of Croker or even out of Leinster because really thats just throwing deck chairs off the titanic. Other counties need to up their game and organize better underage structures and coaching and not be wasting precious funds on centers of excellence. The facilities already exist.

Very Bored

Flukey wrote: »

How many times? How many times, do we have to hear this nonsense that Croke Park is Dublin's home ground and it is an advantage to them? You can say it all you want, but Croke Park is not Dublin's home ground. You can say it all you want, but Dublin have no advantage playing there. The facts, if you ever bothered to look at them rather than just trotting out the same old line, emphatically prove that on both counts. Next people will be trying to convince us that Hitler shot JFK! Now I know and you all know that there is zero evidence for that, but things like that never stop people trying to make the case against Dublin.

When the other counties get their game together, they will beat Dublin, just as they have on many, many, many occasions before, in Croke Park and in Parnell Park, Dublin's home ground, and other venues. Now, can we please change this infernal and nonsensical record about Dublin and Croke Park, and maybe talk about how the other Leinster counties can up their game to catch up with Dublin. Dublin are not invincible, either at home or in Croke Park or in other venues.

The Dublin footballers play almost all their matches at Croke Park. Its like saying the Etihad is not Manchester City's home ground because it is owned by Manchester City Council. Its ludicrous.

zombieHanalei

Flukey wrote: »

Next people will be trying to convince us that Hitler shot JFK! Now I know and you all know that there is zero evidence for that, but things like that never stop people trying to make the case against Dublin.

Ah here, I didn't really care about this issue up to now but having just read this ridiculous analogy I thought about it a bit more. Here's some facts for you; (and thank you for making me think about it)

On my travels supporting my own county this year in hurling, I and my fellow Limerick men were put in the rather annoying position of having an extra hour and a half added to both legs of the trip as Casement Park was unavailable due to the fact they are doing work on the ground. So the match was held in Ballycastle.

Was the game at Antrim's official home venue? No.
However, despite the fact Ballycastle is in county Antrim does the fact it was not at Antrim's official home venue mean it was played at a neutral venue?
Limerick usually play one league game outside their official home venue each year. In March when we played Laois at Kilmallock rather than the Gaelic Grounds; was that a neutral venue or was it a home match for Limerick?
When Cork play at Pairc Ui Rinn is that a neutral venue or is it still home advantage for Cork?
Many counties do this during the league (i.e. play one/some home game(s) at a smaller venue within their county which is not their official home venue); does that mean the game is now at a neutral venue? Absolutely 100% not.

Just three more examples; Our national soccer team played at Croke Park while Lansdowne Road (the official home stadium) was being redeveloped; Likewise for our national rugby team; and just last week Ireland hosted the Barbarians at Thomond Park; you've guessed it, that too was a home game despite it not being at the official home venue.

Regardless of whether or not it is the official one, Croke Park is a home venue for Dublin. I don't get why that must be taken as a negative accusation, it's just a simple statement with no connotations.

How much of an advantage home advantage really is is a whole other issue, but I'll tell you this much for nothing, I've extensively analysed results from every league and championship match played since 1989 for the hurling rankings thread I'm running and I can say that it's pretty much a universal statement about every county that statistically they all enjoy a higher win ratio at home than they do away.

I still believe this really isn't a big deal, and I don't have an issue with it, makes financial sense, the extra revenue gets funneled back into the grass roots of every county which is a good argument for continuing their presence at Croke Park.

elefant

Very Bored wrote: »

The Dublin footballers play almost all their matches at Croke Park. Its like saying the Etihad is not Manchester City's home ground because it is owned by Manchester City Council. Its ludicrous.

I can't believe that anyone would seriously be suggesting otherwise. It must be just a wind up.

Very Bored

FAO: zombieHanalei

I would send this via pm but my system is freezing when I try for some reason. If you reply by pm please it should work though because I can read messages, I just can't seem to send them.

I was very interested to read that you have studied hurling home advantage statistics since 1989. Could you tell me what my team's (Kilkenny) ratio is? Do we statsically do better at home and by how much? Also, if you have it, have we played a league or championship match at a home venue other than Nowlan Park? I know we've played Walsh Cup matches in Freshford. Have you got any other interesting statistics (biggest win/loss in that time for example)?

ultrapercy

Home field advantage is so called because of the fact that it is an advantage. The truth of the matter is that this situation also does a disservice to Dublin and their supporters too. As a Mayo supporter some of my most abiding memories are of trips to the Hyde for some epic matches. Trips like those really bond the supporters to one another and to the team. Away trips also weed out the bandwagon glory hunters from the real supporters so that would be 90% of the hill.

salmocab

ultrapercy wrote: »

Home field advantage is so called because of the fact that it is an advantage. The truth of the matter is that this situation also does a disservice to Dublin and their supporters too. As a Mayo supporter some of my most abiding memories are of trips to the Hyde for some epic matches. Trips like those really bond the supporters to one another and to the team. Away trips also weed out the bandwagon glory hunters from the real supporters so that would be 90% of the hill.

To be fair it would be 90% of sports supporters

RoyalCelt

kona wrote: »

Probably won multiple all Ireland's. lets just built 80k seaters in every county

God I wish the school term went on a little longer.

RoyalCelt

Flukey wrote: »

Rotating them around the provinces is a ridiculous idea. Leinster counties themselves would say the Leinster Championship would be devalued if Dublin were not in it. Ask any county that has beaten them. There would always be the "Ah, but Dublin weren't playing in it that year" factor that could be thrown at the winning counties. These things are cyclical. Dublin have dominated before to a point where you could see no end to it, but it did end. This period of dominance will end too. That is down to the other Leinster counties to do. They've often done it before and often will again.

Who gives a ****. It's chronic at this stage. They are likely to win a minimum of 18/20 titles come 2024. What will attendances be like then? Seriously as a Meath man I'd love if meath was moved to connaught for example. Would even the numbers up a bit. Or ulster where we'd rarely win it but be very competitive.

Leinster Is dead. My solution breeds life into it and at least the province would recover.

Imagine Dublin was an ulster county and they dominated it. Now imagine they started rotating. The ulster for the 3 years of no dubs would be devalued but as you seen now it would be ultra competitive and all counties would be much better supported then if they got hammered every year.

Leinster could be like ulster but with open football if the dubs left. The situation has honestly made me depressed. It was so cruel growing up at a time my province was competitive. I'd rather it was always **** so I just never cared.

RoyalCelt

kona wrote: »

Yes but let progress happen from Leinster improving and not from Dublin going backwards

It starts with underage, put a system in place that encourages skills and winning, not this ****e of oh ya lost but you took part.

How would Dublin go backwards if they actually were getting competitive matches pre August for the 3 years they're out of leinster?

Playing ulster teams, or mayo, Cork, kerry would have them better hardened come the business end. My idea actually equally benefits the dubs. The football support has dwindled for the leinster championship so obviously the dubs agree. I doubt they want another 10 years of even bugger hammerings.

homeofhurling

all this bullsh.t about getting Dublin out of croker, if that match was in the carpark in longford it would have been the same, do people here think that Laois,offaly, wexford, meath, louth, westmeath, would beat Dublin outside of croker are off their heads. the last time they played outside of croker in leinster was 2006, the last time Dublin were beaten outside of croker in leinster was 1981 again laois, kerry beat them in thurles ,

i remember Billy Morgan calling for Dublin to come down to cork for the 1983 replay as they always had to go to croker, they did go down and kicked cork out the gate in the replay. look at all the all irelands kerry won in croker or kilkenny in the hurling. if Dublin didn't play any games in croke park they still would be going for 10 leinster in 11 years its the talent they have not where the game is played.

nice_guy80

homeofhurling wrote: »

all this bullsh.t about getting Dublin out of croker, if that match was in the carpark in longford it would have been the same, do people here think that Laois,offaly, wexford, meath, louth, westmeath, would beat Dublin outside of croker are off their heads. the last time they played outside of croker in leinster was 2006, the last time Dublin were beaten outside of croker in leinster was 1981 again laois, kerry beat them in thurles ,

i remember Billy Morgan calling for Dublin to come down to cork for the 1983 replay as they always had to go to croker, they did go down and kicked cork out the gate in the replay. look at all the all irelands kerry won in croker or kilkenny in the hurling. if Dublin didn't play any games in croke park they still would be going for 10 leinster in 11 years its the talent they have not where the game is played.

So a team has to draw with Dublin first, before they will leave Croker?

Godge

I haven't voted in this poll because of the way it is written. It is pejorative in the way the question is phrased.

"Should Dublin be allowed keep their unconditional home advantage in Leinster?"

What is the word "unconditional" doing in there? Dublin's home advantage is not unconditional, it is conditional on all of the Leinster counties agreeing to it.

The use of the word "unconditional" makes it difficult to vote anyway other than No, which is why it was put in, to skew the poll (as if a vote on boards isn't skewed enough already).

kona

RoyalCelt wrote: »

How would Dublin go backwards if they actually were getting competitive matches pre August for the 3 years they're out of leinster?

Playing ulster teams, or mayo, Cork, kerry would have them better hardened come the business end. My idea actually equally benefits the dubs. The football support has dwindled for the leinster championship so obviously the dubs agree. I doubt they want another 10 years of even bugger hammerings.

Ulster teams I wouldn't call a challenge , they play what can barely be described as football, it's proper knacker ball.

Dublin would only have a issue in Munster with Kerry or cork. They will stroll through every other Provence.

By moving Dublin around your shafting teams winning their Provence. Maybe teams should take a look at what Dublin have done from underage up, the seeds for this domination were sewn about ten to fifteen years ago.

RoyalCelt

homeofhurling wrote: »

all this bullsh.t about getting Dublin out of croker, if that match was in the carpark in longford it would have been the same, do people here think that Laois,offaly, wexford, meath, louth, westmeath, would beat Dublin outside of croker are off their heads. the last time they played outside of croker in leinster was 2006, the last time Dublin were beaten outside of croker in leinster was 1981 again laois, kerry beat them in thurles ,

i remember Billy Morgan calling for Dublin to come down to cork for the 1983 replay as they always had to go to croker, they did go down and kicked cork out the gate in the replay. look at all the all irelands kerry won in croker or kilkenny in the hurling. if Dublin didn't play any games in croke park they still would be going for 10 leinster in 11 years its the talent they have not where the game is played.

And what was the result? One of the most memorable and atmospheric matches ever. Isn't it funny that the matches that get taken out have the most positive effect? Like Dublin v kerry in thurlas, mayo v kerry in limerick, Dublin v louth in Navan. playing everything in croker does way more harm than good

RoyalCelt

kona wrote: »

Ulster teams I wouldn't call a challenge , they play what can barely be described as football, it's proper knacker ball.

Dublin would only have a issue in Munster with Kerry or cork. They will stroll through every other Provence.

By moving Dublin around your shafting teams winning their Provence. Maybe teams should take a look at what Dublin have done from underage up, the seeds for this domination were sewn about ten to fifteen years ago.

You wouldn't call ulster teams a challenge? Are Donegal not from ulster? Either you don't consider them from ulster or you forgot the semi final of last year. In the league this year Dublin had close battles with Tyrone, Derry and monaghan too.

So yeah obviously it would be a challenge for them. Mayo in connaught too and roscommon and Galway would be similar to meath and Kildare.

And yes obviously for 1 in 4 years it would make winning a province harder but is that no fairer than making leinster go extinct regarding a championship. As i said Dublin will have won 18/20 minimum if the status quo remains.

And yeah Dublins dominance was sewn years ago when the GAA thought it wise to let them dominate their budget for underage. There is a limited amount of money so either Dublin keep getting what you deem fair and the domination gets worse or they split it somewhat with counties that actually need it.

ArmaniJeanss

homeofhurling wrote: »

i remember Billy Morgan calling for Dublin to come down to cork for the 1983 replay as they always had to go to croker, they did go down and kicked cork out the gate in the replay.

Thats such an iconic match that it almost proves the opposite point to the one you are trying to make. Dub fans who were lucky enough to be there (and doubless many who weren't) still regale the rest of us with tales of the sheer epicness of that weekend.

kona

RoyalCelt wrote: »

You wouldn't call ulster teams a challenge? Are Donegal not from ulster? Either you don't consider them from ulster or you forgot the semi final of last year. In the league this year Dublin had close battles with Tyrone, Derry and monaghan too.

So yeah obviously it would be a challenge for them. Mayo in connaught too and roscommon and Galway would be similar to meath and Kildare.

And yes obviously for 1 in 4 years it would make winning a province harder but is that no fairer than making leinster go extinct regarding a championship. As i said Dublin will have won 18/20 minimum if the status quo remains.

And yeah Dublins dominance was sewn years ago when the GAA thought it wise to let them dominate their budget for underage. There is a limited amount of money so either Dublin keep getting what you deem fair and the domination gets worse or they split it somewhat with counties that actually need it.

Donegal, Kerry, cork, Monaghan and mayo would give Dublin a game. The rest will try keep the score down by cynical knacker ball but ultimately roll over.

All the other teams will be obliterated if they play Dublin. To be fair the teams above would wipe them out too.

All you ever hear from outside the pale is whinging about everything Dublin gets. Yes it's not any good for Dublin to be walking all over teams but that's the way it is. Removing them from a province so every 3 years the poorer teams will get a run is a joke.

What happend the last final without Dublin? It was a disgrace to the game what went on.

RoyalCelt

kona wrote: »

Donegal, Kerry, cork, Monaghan and mayo would give Dublin a game. The rest will try keep the score down by cynical knacker ball but ultimately roll over.

All the other teams will be obliterated if they play Dublin. To be fair the teams above would wipe them out too.

All you ever hear from outside the pale is whinging about everything Dublin gets. Yes it's not any good for Dublin to be walking all over teams but that's the way it is. Removing them from a province so every 3 years the poorer teams will get a run is a joke.

What happend the last final without Dublin? It was a disgrace to the game what went on.

My god I hope your trolling because you can't mean the things you're saying!

The leinster final between meath and louth was by a mile the most exciting final in the last 10 years. You cant use a shocking referee decision as a reason to say it wasn't good.

Also the argument about Dublin walking all over everyone apart from 4 teams is void. The whole point in rotating Dublin is so they don't ruin any one province. Having different teams winning it will bring them on no end and they will improve. half the teams in leinster have a sizable group of their better players not commiting. The reason is, it's not worth sacrificing their lives to get a hammering from Dublin.

If Dublin remain in leinster apart from meath and maybe kildare the other teams will get worse and Dublin will keep getting better.

Can I ask if you'll enjoy the next 10 years if Dublin win all 10 hammering almost every team they play?

ultrapercy

salmocab wrote: »

To be fair it would be 90% of sports supporters

Yes

Very Bored

I agree with the idea that Dublin's home advantage is unfair. However, I strongly disagree with a lot of what is being said here. First, I see no reason why Dublin will dominate for the next ten or even five years. That suggests that Dublin won't go back in that time and no other team/s will come on from where they are now. Its been proven time-and-again that that doesn't happen. Its only a couple of years since Leinster was a cakewalk for my own county but for the last few years its always been a challenge. Take this year for example, Wexford have come on a lot and whose to say they couldn't beat us in the semifinal. Get past that and there's potentially Dublin in the final. Ten years ago if you'd told anyone that Dublin would be capable of taking Kilkenny they'd have laughed in your face. But its happened and there's no reason it can't happen again. That it could be Galway that do it is slightly irrelevant when it comes to football. But a fairly uncompetitive province has become competitive again. Why? Because teams strengthen and wane over time. It'll happen in Leinster football too.

Then the idea that Leinster is way behind the other provinces is absolutely wrong. Kerry and Cork get one competitive match a year in Munster at best. There is a similar situation in Connacht with Galway and Mayo, though it seems Roscommon could give either a rattle this time. Its only Ulster where a number of teams could win and where the majority of games are tight. To be honest, this idea that Dublin will dominate "forever"/kill off Leinster is hysteria.

Just as an additional note, the user/s who is/are using the term knacker ball, could you not think of a less offensive term? You might not like defensive football but it is up to each team to play to its own strengths.

Very Bored

Sorry, I meant to add that it is futile to worry about Dublin's home advantage at the moment as Dublin are light years ahead in Leinster. Would it have affected the Leinster championship if, up until five years ago, we had played every match in Nowlan Park? No, not at all, because we were on a different planet. Would it affect it now the gap has been closed? Quite possibly. Whilst I don't agree with home advantage, at the moment it really isn't an issue to be honest.

ThunbergsAreGo

Very Bored wrote: »

Then the idea that Leinster is way behind the other provinces is absolutely wrong. Kerry and Cork get one competitive match a year in Munster at best. There is a similar situation in Connacht with Galway and Mayo, though it seems Roscommon could give either a rattle this time. Its only Ulster where a number of teams could win and where the majority of games are tight. To be honest, this idea that Dublin will dominate "forever"/kill off Leinster is hysteria.

100% agree

Mehapoy

RoyalCelt wrote: »

You wouldn't call ulster teams a challenge? Are Donegal not from ulster? Either you don't consider them from ulster or you forgot the semi final of last year. In the league this year Dublin had close battles with Tyrone, Derry and monaghan too.

So yeah obviously it would be a challenge for them. Mayo in connaught too and roscommon and Galway would be similar to meath and Kildare.

And yes obviously for 1 in 4 years it would make winning a province harder but is that no fairer than making leinster go extinct regarding a championship. As i said Dublin will have won 18/20 minimum if the status quo remains.

And yeah Dublins dominance was sewn years ago when the GAA thought it wise to let them dominate their budget for underage. There is a limited amount of money so either Dublin keep getting what you deem fair and the domination gets worse or they split it somewhat with counties that actually need it.

Dublin has the greatest population in the country, it would be absolute madness for the GAA to ignore the youth of Dublin just so they can be dragged down to the level if the other counties, it's either invest in coaching in Dublin to capture the youth in that market or let them off to play rugby and soccer etc.
I know which one I'd be pushing for, the coaching drive in Dublin has been good for the GAA and i think the more youth playing the game the better, yes invest in other counties but per head of population are Dublin getting more than other counties?

doc_17

I saw the Chairman of the Leinster Council say in the papers today that perhaps one option would be to put Dublin into the semi final without having to even play the quarter final. Apparently they did a similar thing when Kilkenny were hammering all before them. I think that would be an awful decision. Surely they should put them on the road for the quarter final, IF they are drawn away, before taking that step.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-footballers-may-get-bye-to-provincial-semifinal-to-limit-damaging-defeats-31271125.html

Mehapoy

doc_17 wrote: »

I saw the Chairman of the Leinster Council say in the papers today that perhaps one option would be to put Dublin into the semi final without having to even play the quarter final. Apparently they did a similar thing when Kilkenny were hammering all before them. I think that would be an awful decision. Surely they should put them on the road for the quarter final, IF they are drawn away, before taking that step.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-footballers-may-get-bye-to-provincial-semifinal-to-limit-damaging-defeats-31271125.html

All these band aids being proposed are only a side show in keeping the provincial councils with their cash cows, the GAA has to accept that the competition structures and fixtures are no longer fit for purpose and are the single biggest threat to nationwide interest in the games and the club game, both issues could be solved with a sensible well thought out structure and fixture list, but is being dragged out for years by sectional interests and conservatives blocking any attempt to make reforms, very frustrating to see.

bruschi

doc_17 wrote: »

I saw the Chairman of the Leinster Council say in the papers today that perhaps one option would be to put Dublin into the semi final without having to even play the quarter final. Apparently they did a similar thing when Kilkenny were hammering all before them. I think that would be an awful decision. Surely they should put them on the road for the quarter final, IF they are drawn away, before taking that step.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-footballers-may-get-bye-to-provincial-semifinal-to-limit-damaging-defeats-31271125.html

well if thats the case, then their whole argument of financial issues and whatnot is completely and utterly blown to pieces. If they can afford to scrap one whole game involving them, then how does it make sense to say that by moving a double header would leave them with less money?

by the by, 33,544 in attendance for this one. this was for 3 counties, obviously Dublin with the largest attendance. But do people still believe that there is no ground outside of Croke Park that can cater for Dublin football team in a quarter final? the whole argument of financial reasons or capacity reasons is utter rubbish.

And the post above trying to say that Croke Park is a neutral venue. Is it any wonder people get annoyed and start going on about it when an argument like that is thrown up.

Boom__Boom

How advantageous is home advantage in the GAA?

Well when you are a top team is definitely helps.

Since 1928 Kerry have only lost to 2 intercounty teams (9 matches in total) in all the championship games played in Kerry.
[The reason 1928 is used is because records before then are patchy]

One of those teams is Cork.

Anyone knows who the other team are?

keane2097

Boom__Boom wrote: »

How advantageous is home advantage in the GAA?

Well when you are a top team is definitely helps.

Since 1928 Kerry have only lost to 2 intercounty teams (9 matches in total) in all the championship games played in Kerry.
[The reason 1928 is used is because records before then are patchy]

One of those teams is Cork.

Anyone knows who the other team are?

In National League games I worked out that over 10 years worth of data home advantage was worth approximately 1.5 points.

keane2097

For the record I didn't work out what Parnell Park was worth since it's not the home ground of any football team.

Boom__Boom

keane2097 wrote: »

In National League games I worked out that over 10 years worth of data home advantage was worth approximately 1.5 points.

One thing i'd be wary of is using league data for games that took place prior to current league structure. Even then it took a bit before all sides started to see the importance of the league.

The current league and how serious it's treated are a far different kettle of fish to the league of even 5/10/15 years ago.

In 2002 Kerry's league opponents were Wicklow, Leitrim, Antrim, Limerick, London, Armagh, Louth, Meath and Laois.

Another historical stat the boggles the mind is that in 1999 Kerry actually played Kilkenny in the league.