An Post Ras 2015 *warning, spoilers inside, no spoiler tags

CramCycle

manwithaplan wrote: »

It certainly is. Presume we can talk about it without spoilers?

I will check with the other mods but typical rules are spoiler tags until 12, so for now, stick with them.

el tel

.

Is the bit about cancellation of the leader not spoiler worthy

CramCycle

el tel wrote: »

.....

Fixed

Junior

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/italian-ras-yellow-jersey-reda-has-been-disqualified-from-race/ That report comes across as the Rás being very petty and almost starts a Irish vs Italians all over again

manwithaplan

It's hard to know and I suspect more will emerge. While I would have no sympathy for ex-dopers, I would hope he wouldn't be treated more harshly because it was uncomfortable to have him in the leader's jersey. Depends on the details.

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: Spoiler tag need is lifted as its not televised and there is now a warning in the first post that spoilers are present

buffalo

Junior wrote: »

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/italian-ras-yellow-jersey-reda-has-been-disqualified-from-race/ That report comes across as the Rás being very petty and almost starts a Irish vs Italians all over again

How much of that is the reporter's interpretation? I presume the below is in relation to Reda:

https://twitter.com/sticky_bottle/status/600316288553070592

manafana

yeah sounds bit over done normally done as time penalties or fine, yet thrown out unless it was really bad

buffalo

manafana wrote: »

yeah sounds bit over done normally done as time penalties or fine, yet thrown out unless it was really bad

http://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/eliminated-from-the-an-post-ras-mayo-rider-paddy-clarke-insists-he-did-not-cheat/

Here's two years back - holding on to a team car (and in extreme circumstances), eliminated. The word is that Reda was warned by the comms, but continued. It'd be rare to even get a warning afaik.

CramCycle

manafana wrote: »

yeah sounds bit over done normally done as time penalties or fine, yet thrown out unless it was really bad

Apparently he got a few warnings and kept at it, maybe their was miscommunication, maybe he just took the risk and hoped they would be lenient.

It was odd having no yellow jersey pic but I hadn't noticed until someone said that to me, so it could just be paranoia.

jimbobaloobob

buffalo wrote: »

http://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/eliminated-from-the-an-post-ras-mayo-rider-paddy-clarke-insists-he-did-not-cheat/

Here's two years back - holding on to a team car (and in extreme circumstances), eliminated. The word is that Reda was warned by the comms, but continued. It'd be rare to even get a warning afaik.

Normally you'd get a warning as its happening and the team manager also.

Persistent abuse then would be noted and dealt with after the stage.

jimbobaloobob

Irvine now 9th

wpd

from team idea facebook page - online translate

Before the ascent of Aherlow Francesco Reda has suffered a blowout as others of our own. David viganò has past the wheel but in a hurry is probably been mounted badly. The wheel was then stuck right on the hill and from there was born the interpretation of the jury. Both Reda that viganò are then returned, piazzandosi respectively sixth and third. The disqualification has been communicated to reda irritualmente just after the finish line. Our leadership is now considering the regulation and Alberto Elli is at work to request a review of the decision.

Read the comments!!!

https://www.facebook.com/teamidea2010/posts/853935814680128

Mr. Grieves

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Normally you'd get a warning as its happening and the team manager also.

Persistent abuse then would be noted and dealt with after the stage.

In previous years, the DS has been kicked off the race along with the rider, I wonder if that's the case here?

I think stickybottle are making a leap with their comments about Reda's doping ban. That shouldn't come into any decision.

Lumen

Mr. Grieves wrote: »

I think stickybottle are making a leap with their comments about Reda's doping ban

I think the StickyBottle corporate motto is "What would Tony Montana do?"

Mr. Grieves

And there's the irony of a website called Stickybottle getting up on a high horse about riders holding on to cars :rolleyes:

griffin100

I was watching the race yesterday just outside of Carlow and the last bunch on the road (20-25 riders) were tucked in behind an official car (orange flashing roof lights) and being towed along. Maybe they didn't want any eliminations on the first day.

RobFowl

griffin100 wrote: »

I was watching the race yesterday just outside of Carlow and the last bunch on the road (20-25 riders) were tucked in behind an official car (orange flashing roof lights) and being towed along. Maybe they didn't want any eliminations on the first day.

You didn't see that .....

Kaisr Sose

griffin100 wrote: »

I was watching the race yesterday just outside of Carlow and the last bunch on the road (20-25 riders) were tucked in behind an official car (orange flashing roof lights) and being towed along. Maybe they didn't want any eliminations on the first day.

Wow! If that is so, that's one rule for the back and a different rule for the front? (Towing/drafting is towing/drafting) Some of those guys finished outside the 20% limit but were not eliminated.

Re today's front of the pack disqualification.

Yellow Jersey's past should not be a factor here - and I doubt it is. I guess the Commisaires Report will detail the grounds. Unless there is more to this, a time penalty or a demotion to last man over the line should be the sanction here. I would say he gets reinstated with a time penalty.

Inquitus

Someones not happy

CramCycle

Inquitus wrote: »

Someones not happy

I guess the review did not go well

Trojan

Heads-up posted on Ras twitter stream:

*ATTENTION RIDERS*
We are rolling out of Tipperary at 10am tomorrow morning, NOT 11am!!!
Change is due to predicated traffic issues
#Ras2015

boege

I have followed a good many stage races and have regularly seen race leaders escorted back to the bunch (with many a sticky bottle). This decision is certainly not consistent with I have regularly seen, so curious to see the full report.

buffalo

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Wow! If that is so, that's one rule for the back and a different rule for the front? (Towing/drafting is towing/drafting) Some of those guys finished outside the 20% limit but were not eliminated.

I doubt that the "last bunch on the road (20-25 riders)" were towed anywhere, because there were no groups of that size. Just outside Carlow, the groups would've been the same size as at the finish, which were (from the last), 2, 3, 9, 3, 1, 2, 16, bunch.

On the time limit exemption, there was a communique:

Due to the conditions of the race and crashes, the time allowance was not applied to any rider today.

Kaisr Sose

CramCycle wrote: »

I guess the review did not go well

Well that's the introductions and pleasantries out of the way....so, Francesco tell us briefly why we should reinstate you.....:-)

Kaisr Sose

buffalo wrote: »

I doubt that the "last bunch on the road (20-25 riders)" were towed anywhere, because there were no groups of that size. Just outside Carlow, the groups would've been the same size as at the finish, which were (from the last), 2, 3, 9, 3, 1, 2, 16, bunch.

On the time limit exemption, there was a communique:

That's fair enough. I did say 'Wow, if that is so...'
From my reading of the stage result, I too was wondering what happened to this 'big group' at the finish as, as you quite rightly say, there was 2 last in, preceded by 3..
....Perhaps you should take it up with the person that posted it?

I had not seen the communique and it was not noted on the stage result.

JK.BMC

griffin100 wrote: »

I was watching the race yesterday just outside of Carlow and the last bunch on the road (20-25 riders) were tucked in behind an official car (orange flashing roof lights) and being towed along. Maybe they didn't want any eliminations on the first day.

I was 200m from the finish line in Carlow. There wasn't a bunch even remotely that size (as noted above) and a number of riders in the later groups busted their guts to get home inside the limit after crashes/mishaps.
Were you watching a sportive?

Inquitus

buffalo wrote: »

I doubt that the "last bunch on the road (20-25 riders)" were towed anywhere, because there were no groups of that size. Just outside Carlow, the groups would've been the same size as at the finish, which were (from the last), 2, 3, 9, 3, 1, 2, 16, bunch.

On the time limit exemption, there was a communique:

I think the comment was about yesterday when there was a significant bunch dicing with the cutoff rather than today.

wpd

Teamidea protest now on their facebook page - interesting reading

https://www.facebook.com/teamidea2010

buffalo

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

That's fair enough. I did say 'Wow, if that is so...'
From my reading of the stage result, I too was wondering what happened to this 'big group' at the finish as, as you quite rightly say, there was 2 last in, preceded by 3..
....Perhaps you should take it up with the person that posted it?

I had not seen the communique and it was not noted on the stage result.

Sorry, I was just quoting you for convenience.

Full stage results attached.

buffalo

Inquitus wrote: »

I think the comment was about yesterday when there was a significant bunch dicing with the cutoff rather than today.

I thought all the comments were about yesterday?

wpd

the team mate that gave him a wheel finished 3rd!! 3 Vigano,Davide Team IDEA 2010 ASD

He got back on after wheel change
Difficult to understand sequence of events then

sullzz

Stage 2 highlights now available
http://youtu.be/Dyd2lImcZVE

griffin100

JK.BMC wrote: »

I was 200m from the finish line in Carlow. There wasn't a bunch even remotely that size (as noted above) and a number of riders in the later groups busted their guts to get home inside the limit after crashes/mishaps.
Were you watching a sportive?

Yeah that must be it, I was watching a Sportive that managed to get itself caught in the Ras cavalcade :rolleyes:

I was positioned just past the Fighting Cocks pub on the way into Carlow. What passed me was two breakaway riders, followed by a small group of a few riders. There were then a number of smaller groups and one larger group which I took to be the remains of the peleton. There may have been one smaller group after this larger group, I'm not sure. Then the cars started to come through along with the last group tucked in behind the official car. I may have overestimated the numbers but I know what I saw. After this group came past the rest of the official cars went through and the road was cleared to all traffic. I assumed that was the rear of the race and left. If you look at the results you will see that there were a number of riders who came in well down on the leaders but I didn't see these as I'd left at that stage. It was about 25 minutes in total between the first Gardai motorcycle pulling in traffic beside me and the road reopening again.

ericzeking

Just to put it out there, as there is some interchanging here. There is an absolutely massive difference between towing and drafting....

manafana

Giving Redas team mate finished in the pack it does seem unusual that he was thrown out for nothing more than minor tows. Dangerous precedent to set I think a slap on the wrists of a nice time penalty may have been wiser. Especially since they have been much kinder to the back of the race this year than last years hard ass approach

Junior

griffin100 wrote: »

Yeah that must be it, I was watching a Sportive that managed to get itself caught in the Ras cavalcade :rolleyes:

I was positioned just past the Fighting Cocks pub on the way into Carlow. What passed me was two breakaway riders, followed by a small group of a few riders. There were then a number of smaller groups and one larger group which I took to be the remains of the peleton. There may have been one smaller group after this larger group, I'm not sure. Then the cars started to come through along with the last group tucked in behind the official car. I may have overestimated the numbers but I know what I saw. After this group came past the rest of the official cars went through and the road was cleared to all traffic. I assumed that was the rear of the race and left. If you look at the results you will see that there were a number of riders who came in well down on the leaders but I didn't see these as I'd left at that stage. It was about 25 minutes in total between the first Gardai motorcycle pulling in traffic beside me and the road reopening again.

You know Race the Rás sportive goes down the same stages, right ?

wirelessdude01

ericzeking wrote: »

Just to put it out there, as there is some interchanging here. There is an absolutely massive difference between towing and drafting....

Exactly. A blind eye is kinda turned towards the drafting side of things once it doesn't happen for very long. Towing on the other hand is very much frowned upon.

Think it was 2 years ago that Paddy Clarke was disqualified for 'towing'. Now in that instance he had got his hand caught up in the wheel and his fingers were very badly shredded. He was getting seen to by the doctor in the medical car but then they were called to something else. He proceeded to hang onto the team car while they tried to finish bandaging the hand to try and stem the loss of blood. He managed to eventually get back on and finish the stage but was then disqualified for the tow.

wirelessdude01

manafana wrote: »

Giving Redas team mate finished in the pack it does seem unusual that he was thrown out for nothing more than minor tows. Dangerous precedent to set I think a slap on the wrists of a nice time penalty may have been wiser. Especially since they have been much kinder to the back of the race this year than last years hard ass approach

One point being ignored here is that it is nothing to do with the race organisers, head UCI commissaire has the final say isn't it?

perrier

The whole thing leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth. I know its not the fault of the RAS orginisers but this and the lack of photos of Reda in the race leaders jersey, makes the it look like another agenda is going on here related to him missing his dope test previously.

Ironic when you consider the riders in the current international tour, Valverde, Contador, Basso, Petacchi.

Junior

perrier wrote: »

The whole thing leaves a bit of a sour taste in the mouth. I know its not the fault of the RAS orginisers but this and the lack of photos of Reda in the race leaders jersey, makes the it look like another agenda is going on here related to him missing his dope test previously.

That's a point that is up for debate as the main "news" source framing this topic is Sticky Bottle and they aren't a bastion of independent journalism.

perrier

Junior wrote: »

That's a point that is up for debate as the main "news" source framing this topic is Sticky Bottle and they aren't a bastion of independent journalism.

true

godtabh

On the indo now.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/race-leader-francesco-reda-fumes-at-stench-of-****-after-being-thrown-out-of-rs-31233294.html

zurbfoundation

yeah the pictures point, a bit incidental if u ask me - wouldn't be reading too much into it.

Yesterday was good for the county lads with a late climb and short descent to the finish - limited the damage - good stage design by Sully, I think 13 mins to last man which is fantastic really. Today should be good for them too - 155km, two cat 3's and all into the headwind so will keep the speed down and the county lads can save the energy for surviving the climbs - probably some heavy roads after Dromkeen but if u can mind urself it could be another day with little damage timewise. Lets hope, eh?

QueensGael

From the Rás updates:


"12.29: The leaders are over the top of the climb. No word yet on who took it, but Aiken was looking motivated.

More on the Italian team - its manager Alberto Elli was disqualified from the race this morning. Apparently he had a very heated discussion with the race commissiares last night over Reda’s ejection from the race. As a result of that, he was not allowed start this morning."

Kaisr Sose

godtabh wrote: »

On the indo now.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/race-leader-francesco-reda-fumes-at-stench-of-****-after-being-thrown-out-of-rs-31233294.html

Indo have or had credited Martin Irvine as leading Irish rider in 9th. Bit of a slip there when you consider the leading rider is Ian Richardson in 5th.

I emailed them to point it out.

CramCycle

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Info have or had credited Martin Irvine as leading Irish rider in 9th. Bit of a slip there when you consider the leading rider is Ian Richardson in 5th.

I emailed them to point it out.

I seen that, I would have thought the UCD bit would have given it away, he is having a cracking race

Kaisr Sose

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Think it was 2 years ago that Paddy Clarke was disqualified for 'towing'. Now in that instance he had got his hand caught up in the wheel and his fingers were very badly shredded. He was getting seen to by the doctor in the medical car but then they were called to something else. He proceeded to hang onto the team car while they tried to finish bandaging the hand to try and stem the loss of blood. He managed to eventually get back on and finish the stage but was then disqualified for the tow.

He was disqualified for getting a tow from his own car after a medical issue. The rules state you can be towed by the Race Dr while getting treatment. Unfortunately, in his case, the Race Dr had to leave him to attend another incident, and he then got a tow from his team car (or another vehicle). On balance it was harsh, as he was entitled to a tow for as long as necessary by the Dr, but this tow ended prematurely when the Dr had to leave him. The general rules on towing then kicked in and don't allow for discretion. (My recollection of it anyway)

CramCycle

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

He was disqualified for getting a tow from his own car after a medical issue. The rules state you can be towed by the Race Dr while getting treatment. Unfortunately, in his case, the Race Dr had to leave him to attend another incident, and he then got a tow from his team car (or another vehicle). On balance it was harsh, as he was entitled to a tow for as long as necessary by the Dr, but this tow ended prematurely when the Dr had to leave him. The general rules on towing then kicked in and don't allow for discretion. (My recollection of it anyway)

That's it, it was harsh because he was still getting treated from my memory by the team car who claimed they were finishing wrapping up his bandages, he still and to bust himself to get up to the group but my memory is fuzzy.

Kaisr Sose

CramCycle wrote: »

I seen that, I would have thought the UCD bit would have given it away, he is having a cracking race

Very basic error by someone that should be more aufait. Probably in a hurry...

Ian Richardson deserves to get acknowledged for two cracking days of racing!