Golovkin vs Munroe Jnr, Gonzalez vs Sosa

Henno30

I thought that was Golovkin's most enjoyable fight to date. He showed the full range, from responsible defence early on to complete recklessness in rounds 4 & 5. Monroe couldn't hurt him but he showed that Golovkin is very hard to fight at distance and much easier to fight in close. Provided you can smother his shots or take the majority of them.

Alpha_zero

HigginsJ wrote: »

Tbf I don't think you can sat anyone is avoiding Ward. He is finally getting back in the ring but the Smith fight is nothing but a tune up and it is a catch weight above SMW. There is talks that he will move up to LH and if he does there is no way the GGG fight happens.

GGG looks like he is comfortably making 160lbs, anyone know what he weighs on fight nights? I think Canelo is one of the biggest fights out there for both guys. If GGG could unify the division in the next 12 months then I think the Canelo fight would be there.

I'm just saying that GGG has the same attitude to fighting Ward as Canelo has towards fighting him. It will happen sometime in the future.

He weighted 170 Sat Night plus he competed at 166 in the Olympics.

Alpha_zero

Big Ears wrote: »

You so sure about that ?
I mean yes the majority of names at Middleweight have been cleaned out by Golovkin and there's only a few left, but Super-Middleweight is every bit as shallow a division imo.

Let's look at the top guys:
1. Andre Ward- semi-retired, has only fought 3 times in the last 4 years, and hasn't fought in a year and a half. He's making a comeback soon, but it's only Paul Smith and the fight is made at 172 lbs, whether he's even a Super-Middleweight anymore who knows, or if he'll actually fight in the next 18 months after he beats Smith....

2.Carl Froch- Also semi-retired, had basically resigned himself to fighting Chavez jnr or retiring, and that fight never materialised. It's been almost a year since he fought and there's no fight on the horizon for him. Maybe if Degale beats Dirrell Sky could put the money up for one more fight, but I think it's likely we'll see Froch retire before the year is out.

3. Arthur Abraham- A long hard career and he's 35 now, and not looking the fighter he was. I reckon if he loses his belt we could see him retire. Fighting Stieglitz for the 27th time next.

4. George Groves- Hasn't looked great since he was knocked out by International Superstar Carl Froch in front of 80,000 people at Wembley. Still quite young, and definitely a fighter with plenty of potential, but style wise he doesn't match up too well with Golovkin imo. Fights Badou Jack next.

5. James Degale- Has looked very good of late, and could conceivably become the top man in the division in a couple of years, but faces a very tough test in Andre Dirrell in his next fight.

6. Robert Stieglitz- Looking a bit shopworn of late and has been in a lot of wars. There seemed to be a big improvement in his game 3-4 years ago, but the fights with Abraham have been very tough and he's no spring chicken either. I think if he loses to Abraham he'll likely retire.

7. Gilbert Ramirez- Decent unbeaten Mexican but is very raw, massive at the weight, and likely will have permanetly moved up to Light-Heavyweight before he gets the chance to take on the best at Super-Middleweight.

8. Andre Dirrell- Went into a semi-retirement of his own a couple of times in the last few years, but he's back fighting regularly now and will face Degale next week. His first proper fight in 5 years !

9. Badou Jack- Caused a major upset of Anthony Dirrell in his last fight. Most gave him little chance as Derek Edwards had stopped him in a round, and he only drew with Marco Antonio Periban. The younger Dirrell was highly overated imo.

10. Lost to Badou in his last fight, and needed 2 attempts to get over old man Bika.

11. Fedor Chudinov- Got the win over a badly faded Sturm in his last fight, and possesses a good chin and strong power. But he's very basic and not that big at the weight either, very green aswell.


So what we've got is a lot of guys who could retire or move up very soon, and then most of the other guys (Degale, Andre Dirrell, George Groves, Badou Jack) are matched against each other. If Degale and Groves were to win they would likely be matched against each other in the near future and kept away from a guy like Golovkin till they do.

So Golovkin moves up, and is left with maybe 2 guys to fight, and a division even shallower than Middleweight after that....., what then ?, Light-Heavyweight ?

At the moment he's got Canelo (once he's done with Cotto/Geale), Lee, Quillin, Lemiuex-N'Dam winner, Jacobs, Heiland, BJS. Quillin and Jacobs are likely fights he can't make, and he'll have to wait for Canelo, but there's still as many fights left for him there as at Super-Middleweight.
Unless he can get a fight with Ward/Froch soon he may aswell wait till the waters settle a little at 168 and we get a few guys who establish themselves as the #1/#2.

168 is the next logical move for GGG, as he competed at 166 during the Olympics. GGG's attitude to facing Ward has been much the same as Canelo's towards fighting him.

At 168 the guys are physically bigger and will punch harder and represent the next challenge for him. He is is bad need of a big name opponent and while Ward may not represent the financial reward he wants, a win would give him legitimacy. If Cotto beats Canelo then it further diminished that fight for GGG.

walshb

GGG is in the wrong era at MW.

Big Ears

Alpha_zero wrote: »

168 is the next logical move for GGG, as he competed at 166 during the Olympics. GGG's attitude to facing Ward has been much the same as Canelo's towards fighting him.

At 168 the guys are physically bigger and will punch harder and represent the next challenge for him. He is is bad need of a big name opponent and while Ward may not represent the financial reward he wants, a win would give him legitimacy. If Cotto beats Canelo then it further diminished that fight for GGG.

His amateur weight class has nothing to do with the situation now. He is a relatively small Middleweight, although would probably have to kill himself to make 154. So taking opposition out of the equation for a second, he's in the perfect weight class for him to perform optimally.

GGG's attitude to fighting Ward ?, how can anyone get in the ring with Ward, the only fighting the Oakland man does these days is through lawyers. Ward's last fight was 18 months ago and they settled on Edwin Rodriguez, because they wanted a decent opponent, but not a top guy after being out for the 14 months previous to that. They've now selected Paul Smith, as once again they don't want to jump into the ring with a top guy after being out so long.
So when could he have possibly fought him ?, and what happens if Golovkin moves up to Super-Middleweight and Ward goes to Light-Heavyweight ?

If Cotto beats Canelo it likely means he'll have beaten Sergio Martinez, Daniel Geale and Saul Alvarez in his last 3 fights. It would legitimise him as the Middleweight champion of the World, as opposed to a guy who got Maravilla at the right time. That would make a fight with Golovkin a monumental showdown that everyone would want to see.
So unless Geale beats Cotto, and Cotto still fights Canelo and wins, we'll be left with a huge fight for Golovkin, one bigger than a fight with any Super-Middleweight.

walshb

Cotto lasts about 3 rds with GGG. Don't expect that fight to ever happen.

Regarding the weight and GG. It's similar to Ward who fought at 178 lbs 11 years ago in Athens, and is now below 170 lbs.

Alpha_zero

Big Ears wrote: »

His amateur weight class has nothing to do with the situation now. He is a relatively small Middleweight, although would probably have to kill himself to make 154. So taking opposition out of the equation for a second, he's in the perfect weight class for him to perform optimally.

GGG's attitude to fighting Ward ?, how can anyone get in the ring with Ward, the only fighting the Oakland man does these days is through lawyers. Ward's last fight was 18 months ago and they settled on Edwin Rodriguez, because they wanted a decent opponent, but not a top guy after being out for the 14 months previous to that. They've now selected Paul Smith, as once again they don't want to jump into the ring with a top guy after being out so long.
So when could he have possibly fought him ?, and what happens if Golovkin moves up to Super-Middleweight and Ward goes to Light-Heavyweight ?

If Cotto beats Canelo it likely means he'll have beaten Sergio Martinez, Daniel Geale and Saul Alvarez in his last 3 fights. It would legitimise him as the Middleweight champion of the World, as opposed to a guy who got Maravilla at the right time. That would make a fight with Golovkin a monumental showdown that everyone would want to see.
So unless Geale beats Cotto, and Cotto still fights Canelo and wins, we'll be left with a huge fight for Golovkin, one bigger than a fight with any Super-Middleweight.

Did you not hear his opinion on fighting Ward last night, he wants it to happen but in the future, pretty similar to what Canelo has said about him.

I know Cotto beat the man at 160 well at 159 but the man was lame and entered the fight knowing he could not win due to the debilitating effects of his injuries. He is fighting Geale at 157 and Canelo fight will happen at another catch weight. It would be hard to claim legitimacy at 160 when you never competed at the weight.

Cotto will not fight and is right not to fight GGG cause he is too small and will get destroyed. Canelo is the big fight for him at 160 and what if he doesn't move up any time soon. 160 is one of the weakest divisions in boxing right now. There is a lot of evenly matched opposition but a dearth of elite level fighters.

Big Ears

Alpha_zero wrote: »

Did you not hear his opinion on fighting Ward last night, he wants it to happen but in the future, pretty similar to what Canelo has said about him.

I know Cotto beat the man at 160 well at 159 but the man was lame and entered the fight knowing he could not win due to the debilitating effects of his injuries. He is fighting Geale at 157 and Canelo fight will happen at another catch weight. It would be hard to claim legitimacy at 160 when you never competed at the weight.

Cotto will not fight and is right not to fight GGG cause he is too small and will get destroyed. Canelo is the big fight for him at 160 and what if he doesn't move up any time soon. 160 is one of the weakest divisions in boxing right now. There is a lot of evenly matched opposition but a dearth of elite level fighters.

That's likely due to him realising that fight is not realistic to happen in the short term (or at all if Ward doesn't come back to Super-Middleweight).
Cotto won't fight Golovkin, but that's because imo he'll lose to Geale and if he doesn't, Canelo will beat him. But if he did win those fights, you can bet he'd be matched win Golovkin.....at another catch weight of course.

So the answer is to jump from one very weak division to another ?

Personally I feel all the divisions from Light-Middleweight all the way to Heavyweight are pretty thin these days. Middleweight isn't too bad in the overall scheme of things. Light-Heavyweight has a really strong top 5, but then drops more spectacularly than the rest once you go below that.

Alpha_zero

Big Ears wrote: »

That's likely due to him realising that fight is not realistic to happen in the short term (or at all if Ward doesn't come back to Super-Middleweight).
Cotto won't fight Golovkin, but that's because imo he'll lose to Geale and if he doesn't, Canelo will beat him. But if he did win those fights, you can bet he'd be matched win Golovkin.....at another catch weight of course.

So the answer is to jump from one very weak division to another ?

Personally I feel all the divisions from Light-Middleweight all the way to Heavyweight are pretty thin these days. Middleweight isn't too bad in the overall scheme of things. Light-Heavyweight has a really strong top 5, but then drops more spectacularly than the rest once you go below that.

GGG has shown no desire to fight Ward, irrespective of Ward's hiatus from the sport.

Big Ears

Alpha_zero wrote: »

GGG has shown no desire to fight Ward, irrespective of Ward's hiatus from the sport.

Ward hasn't been able to fight for contractual reasons, and those reasons were only alleviated by Dan Goossen's untimely passing.
What do you expect him to do ?, keep talking about fighting Ward knowing it wasn't going to happen like Froch did for a couple of years ?

It's the management that make the fights anyway, not the fighters and you can bet neither Golovkin or Ward have much fear of each other.