Munster SHC QF: Clare vs Limerick; Semple Stadium, Thurles; 24th May; 4pm

keeponhurling

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Delighted for Limerick.

Clare, Davy his style of play and their tactical fouling can **** right off.

Tactical fouling ????
Idiotic fouling you mean.

Clare gifted Limerick some stupid frees

Might sound like sour grapes, but Clare beat themselves really due to indiscipline

Very Bored

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Serious realistic thoughts must prevail

Today copper fastened if anything while he needs to stay

Missing key players down man start ist half chasing a game never never never have given up and like v KK twice died boots on

Clsre will beat limerick if meet again
Imo Davy actually looked better today as Ryan stronger limerick couldn't extra man longer in the game couldn't finish limerick off
Clare have nothing to be ashamed of in performances in they never gave up
A team never gives up believes in the manager

I agree. I firmly believe had the sendings happened in the reverse order then Clare would have won today. It was the period whilst they were down to 14 against 15 that killed them even though they did very well to stay in touch.

Boom__Boom

Davy doing another "weird" post-match interview.

GoldFour4

Davy is such an absolute child. Poor tactics led to the loss, nothing else.

Very Bored

Davy blamed the ref without actually saying it.

Very Bored

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Davy doing another "weird" post-match interview.

Davy is weird.

I generally like him though, he's a character at least.

Very Bored

How do ye think Henry got on on his first appearance on The Sunday Game as a pundit?

I thought he more than held his own.

keeponhurling

Very Bored wrote: »

How do ye think Henry got on on his first appearance on The Sunday Game as a pundit?

I thought he more than held his own.

He was fine.

The first half wasnt the greatest of spectacles but I like how the did highlight some of the good performances, such as Cian Lynch's performance

tipparetops

the worse thing that happened Clare was appointing Davy.
the longer Davy stays the better for the other counties.
This Clare generation could be ruined by that bizarre character, witness any interview when Clare lose, his over the top behaviour after winning the All Ireland in 2013.
His own story about being bullied in School, yet he see's no contradiction in attacking referees or even his own players.

This Clare team will win more All Irelands - they have the talent - they just wont win anymore with Davy in charge.

keeponhurling

niallo27 wrote: »

Where did 1 minute come from. He wasted one minute telling Nicky O'connel to go back off and back on again.

Why was T.Kelly even taken off??

It was only one more minute left, and if the ball was to fall to anyone I'd rather it be Kelly

Gentleman Off The Pitch

keeponhurling wrote: »

Why was T.Kelly even taken off??

It was only one more minute left, and if the ball was to fall to anyone I'd rather it be Kelly

He had pulled up with an injury and was limping badly prior to being taking off

Santa Cruz

keeponhurling wrote: »

Why was T.Kelly even taken off??

It was only one more minute left, and if the ball was to fall to anyone I'd rather it be Kelly

That was another brilliant move by the great tactician on the line. He knows when he messes up he can always blame the ref

GoldFour4

keeponhurling wrote: »

Why was T.Kelly even taken off??

It was only one more minute left, and if the ball was to fall to anyone I'd rather it be Kelly

Was very surprised the commentators didn't notice he was injured. It was very obvious and the play was right beside him and he couldn't move.

Deise_2012

tipparetops wrote: »

the worse thing that happened Clare was appointing Davy.
the longer Davy stays the better for the other counties.
This Clare generation could be ruined by that bizarre character, witness any interview when Clare lose, his over the top behaviour after winning the All Ireland in 2013.
His own story about being bullied in School, yet he see's no contradiction in attacking referees or even his own players.

This Clare team will win more All Irelands - they have the talent - they just wont win anymore with Davy in charge.

Too right. Average manager surrounded by a talented group of players. Should really get the u21 managers from last year, Galvin wouldn't have went to America if they were in charge

tipparetops

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Too right. Average manager surrounded by a talented group of players. Should really get the u21 managers from last year, Galvin wouldn't have went to America if they were in charge

the problem with Davy, is that its all about Davy.
took Waterford awhile to work that out, nearly bankrupted them.
I hope Clare figure it out soon, I would hate to see a waste of such talent.

Kristopherus

Limerick by 6+

tipparetops wrote: »

the problem with Davy, is that its all about Davy.
took Waterford awhile to work that out, nearly bankrupted them.
I hope Clare figure it out soon, I would hate to see a waste of such talent.

Totally agree with you, but with Daddy in charge, I have a feeling Davy will be there for the full term. Can't ever see him falling on his sword:(

Fireball07

Draw

Just back from Thurles, delighted to get to win, fairly dramatic at the end but we'll have to play a lot, lot better the next day.


I thought we were by far the better team in the first half to be honest, think we did most of the hurling, but we weren't clinical at all and I was worried. Shane Dowling very rarely misses that many frees and his striking seemed off. Clare also seemed to be getting their scores handier and they did miss some good chances too. Referee was giving some handy frees to both sides (Shane O'Donnell is some man for leaning into defenders and winning frees), but then was leaving loads of other things go. Really blatant pulling & dragging off the ball, the whole time. At half time, only a point up, I was worried that we hadn't asserted our dominance more.

Then news filtered through about Donnellan's red, I didn't see it given myself or the incident but obviously then we expected to win. But we didn't really kick on, Clare came out fairly strongly but eventually we opened up a bit of a gap and Mulcahy did well to get the goal after a mix-up between the back and Kelly. Obviously then Cunningham replied with a goal of his own straight away, and we struggled to deal with his pace. Tobin then got a red card just after coming on... it was in front of me, and to be honest, I didn't think there was anything in it. Maybe there was a strike on the blind side but it looked like the usual stuff that goes on.

It changed the game completely, Clare's 2nd goal and Kelly's unbelievable point dragged them back into it and they were then able to play their sweeper again and we were never going to create too much after that. But we fought tooth and nail, and Fitzgibbon got the winning score, a fine one too.



I thought in general our backs did pretty well, I was surprised Richie was put on SOD but after a few early scares, he did very well as you'd expect. Cunningham's pace did cause us problems, and maybe Seanie O'Brien should have been put on him but I wonder why we didn't play a sweeper to plug that gap; obviously after the red card, it was more difficult to do. I thought Condon had a mighty game, nullified Tony Kelly pretty much, he was the free man a lot early on and scored a fine point too.

Midfield were excellent, Jim-Bob is a monster, just hoovers up breaking ball, did a mountain of work. Browne worked very hard too, but some things just didn't go his way today. Paudie O'Brien was excellent- our primary puckout option, ran his heart out, was always there as an option- showed why he's better in a free role than in the backs.


Up front was the problem, I thought. We had a plan to counteract the sweeper and it kind of worked, but it wasn't the most effective. Mulcahy was starved of possession in the first half, and Lynch didn't get it enough in the second. Dowling was off the pace today, one great catch early on aside, he just didn't look at the races. The game almost completely bypassed Hannon, when he did get involved he looked alright, but those moments were rare and that's a waste for a talent such as his. Same with Mulcahy- he in particular looked hugely threatening when he got the ball but the game bypassed him in the first-half. Dodge very very quiet. Luckily for us, Lynch was top class; stood up and was counted. Scored 0-3, won a few frees, maybe could have had a goal, lovely skill too. A class act, no doubt about it.

Bench were okay, I really thought we needed Downes but he obviously wasn't fit. Thought we needed Tobin too, huge blow to lose him. Fitzgibbon did brilliantly to get the winning score and both Morrissey & Wayne made significant contributions. It was Wayne at the very end who won the ball surrounded by Clare players and laid it off.



We need to be a lot lot better though and I think we can be- the likes of Breen & Downes to come back in but it's Hannon & Dowling as well who need to step up. We also need to work on getting Mulcahy and Lynch on the ball as much as possible; both of them absolutely roasted Domhnall O'Donovan, and how he didn't get a yellow I don't know. And the amount of Clare puckouts that ran free to a Clare player was unbelievable, needs to be worked on.


But we're through, and Limerick would never fear Tipp in the Gaelic Grounds.

corny

What did the two reds have in common? Both players hit the deck. The Clare defender was guilty of the exact same infringement but the Limerick lad stayed on his feet so..... yellow card.

Don't know about everyone else but i'm getting tired of listening to the justification and the tacit approval. We're not too far from the soccer types with their 'there was contact' lark.

The GAA should stop with the letter of the law stuff and apply some common sense to these flare ups. Calm down, play the ****ing game, if i have to speak to you again you'll be off. Job done.

pappyodaniel

Poor game overall. Individual brilliance from Cian Lynch and Aaron Cunningham aside it was tough watching. Referee didn't help with some of his calls but that didn't determine the outcome overall. I felt he didn't make the most of the advantage rule which led to a very stop/start game.

Clare's discipline again was very poor. I truly feel that if that particular bunch of players had a mentally stable coach to lead them they'd have at least 2 All Irelands in them.

niallo27

corny wrote: »

What did the two reds have in common? Both players hit the deck. The Clare defender was guilty of the exact same infringement but the Limerick lad stayed on his feet so..... yellow card.

Don't know about everyone else but i'm getting tired of listening to the justification and the tacit approval. We're not too far from the soccer types with their 'there was contact' lark.

The GAA should stop with the letter of the law stuff and apply some common sense to these flare ups. Calm down, play the ****ing game, if i have to speak to you again you'll be off. Job done.

He did get a dig to the ribs in fairness. Quiet sore any day.

Figsy32

Draw

corny wrote: »

What did the two reds have in common? Both players hit the deck. The Clare defender was guilty of the exact same infringement but the Limerick lad stayed on his feet so..... yellow card.

Don't know about everyone else but i'm getting tired of listening to the justification and the tacit approval. We're not too far from the soccer types with their 'there was contact' lark.

The GAA should stop with the letter of the law stuff and apply some common sense to these flare ups. Calm down, play the ****ing game, if i have to speak to you again you'll be off. Job done.

What did the two reds also have in common? Both players struck another with the hurley. That's a red card.

The Tobin incident was not two players at the same thing. Tobin got a shoulder, he hit the opponent with the hurley. That's why one was a yellow and one was a red.

The lads falling down is definitely creeping into the game and I agree something has to be done. The two lads who were sent off put themselves in that position though, it's their own fault really. Both decisions were right.

The problem with a "common sense" approach is that what's sense to one ref is completely different to what it would be to another. That will lead to people complaining about consistency etc.

corny

Figsy32 wrote: »

The problem with a "common sense" approach is that what's sense to one ref is completely different to what it would be to another. That will lead to people complaining about consistency etc.

Not at all. Blatant acts of thuggery aside, a referee would be far better equipped to deal with situations if his brief was not doctrine. As it is now players are making it impossible for referees to get it right because they know the referee is bound by the laws of the game. They'll dive and cheat in greater and greater frequency if its it not a addressed. As i said, if you watch soccer its gone to ridiculous levels. Allow the referee to deal with situations as he sees fit (within reason of course) and you'd get a far more enjoyable game imo.

marco_polo

Limerick by 6+

corny wrote: »

Not at all. Blatant acts of thuggery aside, a referee would be far better equipped to deal with situations if his brief was not doctrine. As it is now players are making it impossible for referees to get it right because they know the referee is bound by the laws of the game. They'll dive and cheat in greater and greater frequency if its it not a addressed. As i said, if you watch soccer its gone to ridiculous levels. Allow the referee to deal with situations as he sees fit (within reason of course) and you'd get a far more enjoyable game imo.

While soccer is riddled with diving and that is not something anyone wants to see creeping into games, one good thing about it is you almost never see are any punches or headbutts etc.

If we could do the same in hurling with striking with the hurleys \ jabs into the ribs then great, keep sending players off until they get the message, don't use your hurley on your opponent. Yes it is a physical game but the above is cowardly behaviour and would be no loss from the game.

TyrionPower

Clare are just a circus under Davy at this stage, it's the same every game now, there accept I responsibility themselves for what happens out on the pitch and are getting more entrenched in blaming the boogie man refs.. It is like watching spoilt children...
It looks like they don't blow the whistle during training games as the backs just foul constantly, stupid lazy could too, pulling the shorts, pulling the jersey, arm in around the neck, hand on the back... All justifiable frees and They seem to think they are cheated.
The longer Davy stays in charge, and the older those U21s get under his reign, and the longer podge Collins is playing football, the better it is for the rest of us

marco_polo

Limerick by 6+

TyrionPower wrote: »

Clare are just a circus under Davy at this stage, it's the same every game now, there accept I responsibility themselves for what happens out on the pitch and are getting more entrenched in blaming the boogie man refs.. It is like watching spoilt children...
It looks like they don't blow the whistle during training games as the backs just foul constantly, stupid lazy could too, pulling the shorts, pulling the jersey, arm in around the neck, hand on the back... All justifiable frees and They seem to think they are cheated.
The longer Davy stays in charge, and the older those U21s get under his reign, and the longer podge Collins is playing football, the better it is for the rest of us

From what I gathered from his interview today, when everybody stops conspiring against us we'll beat any team in the country so you better watch out. .

Once we get a bit of luck we'll be unstoppable, fortunately for all you lot he has been the unluckiest manager in the country for the last 18 months and there is little sign of this streak coming to an end.

/sarcasm

letowski

pappyodaniel wrote:

Poor game overall. Individual brilliance from Cian Lynch and Aaron Cunningham aside it was tough watching. Referee didn't help with some of his calls but that didn't determine the outcome overall. I felt he didn't make the most of the advantage rule which led to a very stop/start game.

Its a fair point, Im dissappointed alot because we were the losers in a bad game. I think alot of the poor play was down to the congestion in midfield setup by both managers. Clare really are shorn alot of quality in midfield now, we dont have any link men in our team with Reidy and O'Donnell not getting any proper ball into space 1v1. We dont have anything like the long range fiepower we used to have too. I think Golden and Gudgie tried their best again superior players.
Limerick I would expect to go back and play more orthodox and be better in the next round.

Mountainlad

I'm glad most people see reason with regard to Davys performance as a manager recently. How anyone good praise him today is beyond me. 45 minutes he left Domhnall O Donovan on Cian Lynch, weren't far away from seeing Jack Browne v Wexford all over again.

How are so many Clare lads getting sent off? The discipline is chronic, and Donnellans was 100% justified. Two or three times Clare players took Limerick lads out with late shoulders when the ball was gone as well. Have never seen them as a dirty team in the past 3 years so was surprised by this.

Tobins red card was soft as butter in my opinion, and Clare having just scored a goal (a suspicion of steps to me too but was pure class so he deserved it) meant even with 3 in it, it was advantage Clare.

I looked at the subs bench before the game and said that Clare have the better bench even in spite of the absentees, in fact by a decent margin. Bobby Duggan was nervous and is much better than he showed, but a few made big impacts. Why was Morey not on sooner? From that position, Clare should have been winning the game but they didn't.

And here is the most important two points:

1. In the past 15 months, Waterford are the only team in the top 8 teams (excluding Clare) that haven't beaten Clare.

2. Clare have only won one game since the league semi final last year. 1/10

Is that a reflection of the quality of players they have? Not even remotely.

Cian Lynch was superb, the player we all thought he was from underage. And Shane O Donnell, I was an idiot for thinking he might have been a one hit wonder in 2013. Incredible for his contribution, and led by example chasing players 50-60 yards back the field.

Meath Centre Forward

I thought Clare were the better team everywhere bar the scoreboard. Frees the difference really plus the Limerick goal came off a scrap while the Clare two were moments of brilliance.

Clare are unlucky certainly. I think it's the 4th game in a row they've lost by a point and they've played much of those games with 14 players. There's possibly a discipline problem but looks to me like referees are a bit more fussy where Clare are concerned.

They are missing a lot of key personnel too. Not sure if you can bank on Colm Galvin coming back but then again I don't the ins and outs of his departure. Podge Collins seems happy with the footballers. I thought Bobby Duggan came on and was pathetic too - don't mean to sound too harsh on an amateur player but he fumbled everything and contested 50/50 balls very weakly. Having said that, he has looked a very good player any other time I've seen him. They'd have won in my opinion with a different sub. Mind you Aaron Cunningham another sub was the reason Clare had a chance near the end.

Davy has done well wherever he's gone. Waterford hurlers, LIT hurlers, Clare hurlers, they all done better while he was in charge than before or after.

TyrionPower

Shane O'Donnell is just sensational to watch, he could pick up a penny with a pick axe at full speed, he has an amazing ability and a style all too himself, at full pace he can control any ball one handed, straight into the paw..

A guy I look forward to seeing more of, he can really hurt teams.

For the players Clare have (including a few not involved this year) I think they are really selling themselves short - I think that if they had everyone, went conventional and let other teams worry about them, they would be a serious force

corny

marco_polo wrote: »

If we could do the same in hurling with striking with the hurleys \ jabs into the ribs then great, keep sending players off until they get the message, don't use your hurley on your opponent. Yes it is a physical game but the above is cowardly behaviour and would be no loss from the game.

True enough but no one was hurt today. The Limerick lad was touched, and i don't use that word flippantly, in the chin guard by a flailing hurl in a pushing match. My point is there has to be a distinction drawn between that and whacking someone in a cowardly action. You can come down hard on cowardly acts while also allowing for minor flashpoints in a physical game.

Deise_2012

Meath Centre Forward wrote: »

I thought Clare were the better team everywhere bar the scoreboard. Frees the difference really plus the Limerick goal came off a scrap while the Clare two were moments of brilliance.

Clare are unlucky certainly. I think it's the 4th game in a row they've lost by a point and they've played much of those games with 14 players. There's possibly a discipline problem but looks to me like referees are a bit more fussy where Clare are concerned.

They are missing a lot of key personnel too. Not sure if you can bank on Colm Galvin coming back but then again I don't the ins and outs of his departure. Podge Collins seems happy with the footballers. I thought Bobby Duggan came on and was pathetic too - don't mean to sound too harsh on an amateur player but he fumbled everything and contested 50/50 balls very weakly. Having said that, he has looked a very good player any other time I've seen him. They'd have won in my opinion with a different sub. Mind you Aaron Cunningham another sub was the reason Clare had a chance near the end.

Davy has done well wherever he's gone. Waterford hurlers, LIT hurlers, Clare hurlers, they all done better while he was in charge than before or after.

Stop boy. The worst thing that happened Waterford was reaching an All Ireland with Davy Fitz in charge. Tipp had their hotels, trains, buses etc booked for the final before the semi-final....my grandmother could have given the team talk that day. Delighted the day he left. You're ridiculous to call Bobby Duggan pathetic, the lad is 18/19 on his Senior debut? You should be ashamed, I suppose you never get nervous hiding behind the keyboard

thinkstoomuch1

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Stop boy. The worst thing that happened Waterford was reaching an All Ireland with Davy Fitz in charge. Tipp had their hotels, trains, buses etc booked for the final before the semi-final....my grandmother could have given the team talk that day. Delighted the day he left. You're ridiculous to call Bobby Duggan pathetic, the lad is 18/19 on his Senior debut? You should be ashamed, I suppose you never get nervous hiding behind the keyboard

He's post was fair and he actually praised player but judged him today
Your speaking morales when you don't hold back on Davy be fair now
To say worst thing ever was waterford getting all Ireland final is an awful truly imo awful awful statement make in regards geuine waterford fans wanted waterford all Ireland final but just cause you don't like Davy you say rather they lost semi

Seriously you don't like Davy fair enough but keep it in perspective
When another waterford management get ye to all Ireland final then ye can move on from Davy as it stands he's the last manager in the record books get ye to all Ireland final
As much as fair enough don't like to admit it you actually have no choice as the stats don't lie

marco_polo

Limerick by 6+

corny wrote: »

True enough but no one was hurt today. The Limerick lad was touched, and i don't use that word flippantly, in the chin guard by a flailing hurl in a pushing match. My point is there has to be a distinction drawn between that and whacking someone in a cowardly action. You can come down hard on cowardly acts while also allowing for minor flashpoints in a physical game.

Isn't it much better that players stop doing it though, relative to Donnleans offence it was certainly harsh but the GAA are cracking down and I think it is better than leaving it up to the refs interpretation tbh.

Of course there will be flashpoints etc but just leave the hurls out of it. Look at the difference between a rugby flair up now and ten years ago, it never escalates beyond a bit of jersey pulling and wrestling, the IRB managed to alter player behaviour by maintaining consistent punishment. Also a dig/slap of the hurl is probably the one thing that 100% guarantees a minor squabble will quickly escalate.

Entitled to your different view of course but I thing a few marginal/ harsh red cards in the short team is worth the longer term gain.

thinkstoomuch1

Meath Centre Forward wrote: »

I thought Clare were the better team everywhere bar the scoreboard. Frees the difference really plus the Limerick goal came off a scrap while the Clare two were moments of brilliance.

Clare are unlucky certainly. I think it's the 4th game in a row they've lost by a point and they've played much of those games with 14 players. There's possibly a discipline problem but looks to me like referees are a bit more fussy where Clare are concerned.

They are missing a lot of key personnel too. Not sure if you can bank on Colm Galvin coming back but then again I don't the ins and outs of his departure. Podge Collins seems happy with the footballers. I thought Bobby Duggan came on and was pathetic too - don't mean to sound too harsh on an amateur player but he fumbled everything and contested 50/50 balls very weakly. Having said that, he has looked a very good player any other time I've seen him. They'd have won in my opinion with a different sub. Mind you Aaron Cunningham another sub was the reason Clare had a chance near the end.

Davy has done well wherever he's gone. Waterford hurlers, LIT hurlers, Clare hurlers, they all done better while he was in charge than before or after.

Most of that I agree with
An outstanding post with a lot of logic imo

randd1

Limerick by 6+

Clare have the forwards to beat anyone. Kelly, Cunningham, McGrath, O'Donnell, Conlon are all class, and on their day top drawer.

They're not helped by having a man in charge who is not setting up his forwards to go man for man and take on the opposition. Davy likes playing the sweeper.

The problem with Clare though, for all the attacking quality, they have to play a sweeper because the defense is generally poor. We hear about the great Clare sides winning four U21 titles in 6 years, but how many top defenders came through? I can't think of one Clare defender that would improve any of the other top 5/6 sides in the country apart from Bugler, and I'm pretty sure he came before the U21 success.

Davy doesn't seem to know how to set up the side to get the best out of the players. But even if he did go 15 v 15, he doesn't have the quality in the backs to shut teams out. That's not even counting in their indiscipline.

You're not going to win too many games if you can't defend.

Deise_2012

There's not a lot of logic.... Of course there's a discipline problem, that's a red card offense to hit the guy in the face with the hurley....Bugler struck a Wexford player right in front of the referee last year...Jack Browne was on his 5th or 6th foul by the time the referee gave him the 2nd yellow, Podge ripped the helmet off the Wexford player also.... "A possible discipline problem" LOL

Clare weren't the better team everywhere, Why was O'Donavan left on the pitch for so long today? The guy got cleaned by Cian Lynch, Graeme Mulcahy was on him for 5mins and scored 1-1, Seamus Hickey cleaned out David Reidy, Limerick won the midfield battle.

Deise_2012

randd1 wrote: »

Clare have the forwards to beat anyone. Kelly, Cunningham, McGrath, O'Donnell, Conlon are all class, and on their day top drawer.

They're not helped by having a man in charge who is not setting up his forwards to go man for man and take on the opposition. Davy likes playing the sweeper.

The problem with Clare though, for all the attacking quality, they have to play a sweeper because the defense is generally poor. We hear about the great Clare sides winning four U21 titles in 6 years, but how many top defenders came through? I can't think of one Clare defender that would improve any of the other top 5/6 sides in the country apart from Bugler, and I'm pretty sure he came before the U21 success.

Davy doesn't seem to know how to set up the side to get the best out of the players. But even if he did go 15 v 15, he doesn't have the quality in the backs to shut teams out. That's not even counting in their indiscipline.

You're not going to win too many games if you can't defend.

Serious? David McInerney > Brendan Bugler..... McInerney is the outstanding talent in the Clare backline

jcon1913

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Precisely, it was the striking that I meant, sometimes you get hurling fans saying that the game is way cleaner, ignoring Tommy Walsh's antics, for one.

Ah here dont be bringing that Walshy fella into this hes a different class of cute when it comes to fouling.

jcon1913

malistheman wrote: »

Davy is such an absolute child. Poor tactics led to the loss, nothing else.

Really childish he looked like a 10 year old being put out of the class for messing. No credit to himself. Hes better than that carry on.

Mountainlad

Rand I think the problem is they are badly coached. Pat O Connor, McInerney and Conor Ryan are all fine players. Seadna Morey is very good in my opinion too, has had some injury problems but looked fit and don't get why he wasn't on sooner. At the end of the game I thought there backs were well on top, and there was no sweeper at that point as both sides had 14 men.

They are not defending with intensity instead they are guilty of lazy tackling and giving away soft frees. There communication is poor, and time and again you see them ball watching and leaving space in behind.

These problems could be addressed through coaching but they haven't been because your man thinks the sweeper is a magic formula. Wasn't even playing a sweeper for a lot of it was just double marking Dowling which left oceans of space at right half back. Limerick didn't exploit due to some really poor use of possession.

Fireball07

Draw

randd1 wrote: »

Clare have the forwards to beat anyone. Kelly, Cunningham, McGrath, O'Donnell, Conlon are all class, and on their day top drawer.

They're not helped by having a man in charge who is not setting up his forwards to go man for man and take on the opposition. Davy likes playing the sweeper.

The problem with Clare though, for all the attacking quality, they have to play a sweeper because the defense is generally poor. We hear about the great Clare sides winning four U21 titles in 6 years, but how many top defenders came through? I can't think of one Clare defender that would improve any of the other top 5/6 sides in the country apart from Bugler, and I'm pretty sure he came before the U21 success.

Davy doesn't seem to know how to set up the side to get the best out of the players. But even if he did go 15 v 15, he doesn't have the quality in the backs to shut teams out. That's not even counting in their indiscipline.

You're not going to win too many games if you can't defend.

I think of the 21 players that David McInerney is a top back. I really rate him.

At this stage, I rate Pat O'Connor higher than Bugler, who isn't as good as he was at his peak in 2013 anymore. IMO obviously. O'Connor is a tough defender. Dillon is also very talented but is very bad for committing silly fouls... there's really no need for him to do it, he has all the raw attributes but he just loves a tug of the jersey. If he cut it out, he'd be quality.


But yeah, outside those players, who have they got? Browne did fairly well today but is he a top class wing-back? He's certainly not a top-class corner-back. Flanagan was one of their stars at underage but didn't really do it in the league. I like Morey but most Clare people reckon he's not a back at all. The likes of O'Neill & Clearly & Shanahan? Maybe in the future. Gudgie? Played at midfield today, but I'm not sure I'd say him as a top back either. Nicky O'Connell... also a no for me.

Still, they do have the bones of a good backline if everyone is fit, Conor Ryan is as solid a centre-back as there is at the moment.



Midfield without Galvin does look weak though and it is one area where Limerick did get on top today. They didn't have anyone to match the physicality of Jim-Bob. I suppose Golden & Gudgie are very very inexperienced and it took a good few years for our midfielders to mature to where they are today.

Limestone Cowboy

Fireball07 wrote: »

I think of the 21 players that David McInerney is a top back. I really rate him.

At this stage, I rate Pat O'Connor higher than Bugler, who isn't as good as he was at his peak in 2013 anymore. IMO obviously. O'Connor is a tough defender. Dillon is also very talented but is very bad for committing silly fouls... there's really no need for him to do it, he has all the raw attributes but he just loves a tug of the jersey. If he cut it out, he'd be quality.


But yeah, outside those players, who have they got? Browne did fairly well today but is he a top class wing-back? He's certainly not a top-class corner-back. Flanagan was one of their stars at underage but didn't really do it in the league. I like Morey but most Clare people reckon he's not a back at all. The likes of O'Neill & Clearly & Shanahan? Maybe in the future. Gudgie? Played at midfield today, but I'm not sure I'd say him as a top back either. Nicky O'Connell... also a no for me.

Still, they do have the bones of a good backline if everyone is fit, Conor Ryan is as solid a centre-back as there is at the moment.



Midfield without Galvin does look weak though and it is one area where Limerick did get on top today. They didn't have anyone to match the physicality of Jim-Bob. I suppose Golden & Gudgie are very very inexperienced and it took a good few years for our midfielders to mature to where they are today.

O Neill is playing big ball aswell now.

letowski

This for me is the nail on the head. Davy for the last 2 years has completely failed to rectify Clare defensive formation and tackling by not bringing in the proper coaching our backs need. Dunny, Dillon, Morey, Ryan, Bugler are stiill making the same defensive errors they were making and its crippling us, we again came out of a free count probably 3:1. In 2013, the sweeper system was fine, we had a u21 fullback and 2 half backs just out of the grade, and it shored things up. But its long outdated now and teams know what to do with their extra man against us.

What is probably even worse is the ramifications its having to our attack. The forwards, having to deal with a player short, cant get any space and create goal chances. Its hard as well as we are so small up front too. We had a situation today where SOD must have beat Richie Mc to every ball by a good 5 yards but it was never on for him if he has to get by extra defenders. Hammy came on a few minutes before the sending off and when Tobin left, we had a pocket of ten minutes where we for once had our forwards 1v1 on the limerick backs. And guess what... surprise surprise we bang in 2 goals in moments!

Davy is infuriating as a manager. Dunny on Lynch for 50mins.. after seeing the same thing with Browne last year too..

thinkstoomuch1

letowski wrote: »

This for me is the nail on the head. Davy for the last 2 years has completely failed to rectify Clare defensive formation and tackling by not bringing in the proper coaching our backs need. Dunny, Dillon, Morey, Ryan, Bugler are stiill making the same defensive errors they were making and its crippling us, we again came out of a free count probably 3:1. In 2013, the sweeper system was fine, we had a u21 fullback and 2 half backs just out of the grade, and it shored things up. But its long outdated now and teams know what to do with their extra man against us.

What is probably even worse is the ramifications its having to our attack. The forwards, having to deal with a player short, cant get any space and create goal chances. Its hard as well as we are so small up front too. We had a situation today where SOD must have beat Richie Mc to every ball by a good 5 yards but it was never on for him if he has to get by extra defenders. Hammy came on a few minutes before the sending off and when Tobin left, we had a pocket of ten minutes where we for once had our forwards 1v1 on the limerick backs. And guess what... surprise surprise we bang in 2 goals in moments!!!

Davy is infuriating as a manager. Dunny on Lynch for 50mins.. after seeing the same thing with Browne last year too..

Some valid points but who is better proven to manage clare
No one stands out
Daly is good but no prove he's better with he's sweeper for Dublin was exposed many times
Good to get a team to a level to win an all Ireland I remain to be convinced

letowski

thinkstoomuch1 wrote:

Some valid points but who is better proven to manage clare No one stands out Daly is good but no prove he's better with he's sweeper for Dublin was exposed many times Good to get a team to a level to win an all Ireland I remain to be convinced

I understand, and Davy has got the best out of these players before. Its just his persistence with this system this year that hasnt worked. He can get these lads on form but he needs to change things.

Mountainlad

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Some valid points but who is better proven to manage clare
No one stands out
Daly is good but no prove he's better with he's sweeper for Dublin was exposed many times
Good to get a team to a level to win an all Ireland I remain to be convinced

Is he immune from criticism because he won an all Ireland? Their record is woeful since then. How does anyone become proven without getting the chance? The u21 managers have a far better cv than Davy had before he took over Waterford, they should be given the opportunity.

You can't be making the same mistakes continuously and get away with it. As Einstein said, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

Mehapoy

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Some valid points but who is better proven to manage clare
No one stands out
Daly is good but no prove he's better with he's sweeper for Dublin was exposed many times
Good to get a team to a level to win an all Ireland I remain to be convinced

Surely to god the under 21 management would be shoo-ins for the position, whether as a duo or one, if you win 3 all Ireland's in a row at u21 you're entitled to have a crack at a higher level

Vanolder

Clare by 1-5

Ah, lovely... lovely, lovely, lovely.

Limestone Cowboy

Mehapoy wrote: »

Surely to god the under 21 management would be shoo-ins for the position, whether as a duo or one, if you win 3 all Ireland's in a row at u21 you're entitled to have a crack at a higher level

Agreed. I actually think it would be a bit of an injustice if the didn't get the opportunity to work with that bunch of players again at some stage after the success they had with them at u21. Always seemed to get the best out of the players at their disposal.

glasagusban

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Some valid points but who is better proven to manage clare
No one stands out
Daly is good but no prove he's better with he's sweeper for Dublin was exposed many times
Good to get a team to a level to win an all Ireland I remain to be convinced

What?? Clare have a rake of ready made replacements, I'm not going to list them it's far too obvious.