Looking for under sink Water filter

Zuzi

Hello guys,

I'm trying to find a good solution for the water filtration.

We are starting to pay the water bill plus this water is full of chlorine and fluoride, so is not even good for drink or cooking.

I'm spending almost 12 euro per week just for mineral water + need to be added the bill.

I'm thinking that the best way is to buy a RO water filter and avoid to buy the mineral water.

Do you have any suggestion?
Do you know any good company that sell and provide a good assistance?

thanks in advance.
Marta

Wyldwood

Got my under sink water filter system from Simply Water. Does a great job. Filters need changing at least once a year.

Have no affiliation with the company, just a satisfied customer.

aah yes

Zuzi wrote: »

Hello guys,

I'm trying to find a good solution for the water filtration.

We are starting to pay the water bill plus this water is full of chlorine and fluoride, so is not even good for drink or cooking.

I'm spending almost 12 euro per week just for mineral water + need to be added the bill.

I'm thinking that the best way is to buy a RO water filter and avoid to buy the mineral water.

Do you have any suggestion?
Do you know any good company that sell and provide a good assistance?

thanks in advance.
Marta

The Aquaphor Morion (Ireland 100) model RO halves the water use that other standard RO systems use at around 10 to 1 water ratio in Ireland.

Ideal ratios as low as 5 to 1 for standard RO systems (2.5 to 1 for Aquaphor) depend on water temperature and pressure of 25 C and 60 psi, but in Ireland we have cooler water from 5 to 15 C and lower pressures all round from 30 to 50 psi.

RO water use is normally 2 litres of filtered water per person per day or up to 10 litres drawn from most family used RO systems per day, using 20 litres per person or up to 100 litres per day.

If you multiply 365 by 20 or 100 then you have 7,300 per person or 36,500 litres per year. Each 1000 litres is 1 cubic metre or metered water costs of €1 to €2 per m3 depending if you have a sceptic system, so €7 per person or €14 and up to €36 per family or up to €73 per year per family for standard chinese made RO systems.

For worst scenario cool water temperatures and lowish water pressures in Ireland. Better if water warmer or pressure higher, possibly halve the amounts.


Aquaphor halves the worst scenario to €3.50 to €7 per person per year drinking 700 litres per year costing 3.5 cubic metres per year in metered water use. Or €17.50 to €35 per family. (More of a Dublin City scenario where low water pressures exist.)

Aquaphor allows the best scenario to €1.75 to €3.50 per person per year drinking 700 litres per year costing 3.5 cubic metres per year in metered water use. Or €8.75 to €17.50 per family. (At warmer water temperatures and higher pressures - usually found in more rural areas to the West of Ireland.)


Finally Aquaphor was the first manufacturer to successfully develop the world's first none electric sub 30 psi RO model (other standard unpumped RO models require over 40 psi) allowing the savings of several hours per day of a 30 watt electric pump (found on most models of Chinese RO systems), about 5 cents a day or €15 to €20 per year in electric.

So adding up water and electric savings over a standard electric pumped RO per year, the Aquaphor Morion ranges from around €35 to €55 savings per year operating costs over chinese pumped models.


Then of course filter savings, the main cost savings ... Aquaphor RO systems use half the water of standard RO models so the filters get half the wear and tear and last for twice as long.

Doubling up on filter savings allows Aquaphor systems to run for up to 2 to 3 years for pre-filter changes. Also many Aquaphor models are sold with 5 years worth of free filters saving €50 to €165 per years on servicing costs over standard RO's whether DIY or callout serviced.

Ultimately saving another €200 to €660 every 5 years in filter cartridges. + €175 to €275 over 5 years in electric and water savings over standard pumped RO models.





see video ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CMtXBJuMvI

pwurple

Zuzi wrote: »

We are starting to pay the water bill plus this water is full of chlorine and fluoride, so is not even good for drink or cooking.

You can drink and cook with unfiltered mains tap water. Don't waste your money buying junk that doesn't work from snakeoil merchants.

Neither chlorine nor flouride are removed by filtration. Plenty of companies will take your money and claim it does, but you'd need a 20,000-30,000 euro piece of equipment in your house to achieve flouride removal. It's a mineral that's added for your health, so giant waste of time bothering to take that out.

Chlorine will dissipate on it's own if you put the water in a jug open to the air as it's a light gas, and that's what a lot of these 'filtration' systems do. They just let the water sit for a bit. Save yourself a pile of cash, just put your water in a jug and you're done.

aah yes

pwurple wrote: »

You can drink and cook with unfiltered mains tap water. Don't waste your money buying junk that doesn't work from snakeoil merchants.

Neither chlorine nor flouride are removed by filtration. Plenty of companies will take your money and claim it does, but you'd need a 20,000-30,000 euro piece of equipment in your house to achieve flouride removal. It's a mineral that's added for your health, so giant waste of time bothering to take that out.

Chlorine will dissipate on it's own if you put the water in a jug open to the air as it's a light gas, and that's what a lot of these 'filtration' systems do. They just let the water sit for a bit. Save yourself a pile of cash, just put your water in a jug and you're done.

Absolutely agree that no one should be buying junk from snake oil merchants. A good site to look at all the scams is www.chem1.com

So on the other hand people buy stuff after much deliberations, people after much thought buy tattoos and nose rings, people buy energy drinks and 50 year old whiskeys, people buy €1000 Apple smart phones and then pay more on top for Angry Birds apps and the like.

And so, when people get serious and delve into a bit of research for what are the best filtration systems from the worlds largest companies, they can weigh up whether something as simple as a Brita water jug are any good or are there better products from bigger companies like Aquaphor and their range of filter jugs.

Then when it gets to serious filtration, even simple things to filter out like chlorine and fluoride, are people going to jump on a €99 RO system or look around and find something for €299 that cost less overall when you work out running costs.


Getting mistaken about whether €20,000 to €30,000 is needed to remove chlorine or fluoride, only a few minutes googling or even a call or two to a few universities would easily knock that odd ball thought out of range from those dis-illusioned.

For €99 you can certainly remove close to 99.9% to 100% chlorine out of water and carry on doing so for a few years before a few dozen euros are needed for a set of several filters to replenish the system.

For €20,000 to €30,000 you can buy a high volume 10,000 litre per day semi-conductor / pharma / medical grade sequence of high flow pre-filtration to 3 microns, ion exchange softening, followed by commercial grade activated carbon, followed by ultraviolet sterilisation, followed by commercial grade reverse osmosis, followed by de-ionising gas polishers, to provide water of a purity of 1 micro siemens quality, as used by companies like Boston Scientific, Lake Region Medical, Creggana, Curtiss-Wright, Intel, and so on, for ultra-pure water for high end manufacturing processes, the kinds of companies that have similar super clean air quality working in Class 1000 or less cleanrooms.

Providers of water systems for that end of the market would be the likes of Halpin Hayward, Watermann, White Water, Elgin, Veolia, Christ-Kennicott, GE Water, Siemens, etc.


As for whether to take out fluoride from water, it is a matter for the end consumer, it is their choice, - they are deciding whether to pay for a certain level of filtration and if it can be observed to be doing that, simply with a follow up water test at a local public or private water laboratory from €10 testing, then they may feel confident a filter system can handle other parameters to a similar degree.

Personally I am with you that fluoride in water is not a big issue, I would say take it or leave it, no biggie.


Good water filtration systems though are not like big jugs, waiting for things to settle and gas off, like a 58 cent Tesco plastic jug, but yes, if you leave water long enough in a jug the chlorine can gas out over a period of time, but not much else does, - the other stuff may need carbon filtration or ion exchange filtration, cross flow RO membrane filtration or UF hollow fibre filtration etc, all these commonly googled technologies can remove all the tougher stuff.

For €299 one system has all those technologies and a clear leader of the pack with exceptionally low running costs. Just google "water filters", and you can soon find something like this.

pwurple

aah yes wrote: »

Then when it gets to serious filtration, even simple things to filter out like chlorine and fluoride, are people going to jump on a €99 RO system or look around and find something for €299 that cost less overall when you work out running costs.

I'm going to say it one more time... you CANNOT filter dissolved gases. Anyone who has done basic chemistry in school will tell you the same thing.

Best method of dechlorination is still free. Stand a pot of water on your windowsill. Chlorine will dissipate. You can get very cheap chlorine testing strips to check this if you like.

aah yes

If you are trying to say common water filters like carbon filters can't remove gases, chlorine, hydrogen sulphide gas, radon gas, odours, etc, you could not be more wrong.


Everyone probably knows about the simple issues of gas volatility out of a solute by vaporisation, as we did in chemistry classes at school, by blowing air over the surface of a liquid, or heating the liquid etc.

Chlorine is a volatile gas, and the colder the the solution it is dissolved in, the harder it will be to vaporise and the longer the chlorine residual, but eventually left in an open container it is simple chemistry, it will dissipate.

All simple stuff.

But I see you are having difficulties with the equally simple and universally known separation process of taking dissolved gases from water into a filtration bed, or substrate or media, .. such as activated carbon. I think you are stuck on the dissolved inorganic compounds, as opposed to gases.


Okay lets have a look ...

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_filtering

Active charcoal carbon filters are most effective at removing chlorine, sediment, volatile organic compounds (VOCs), taste and odor from water.

2) http://www.watertreatmentguide.com/activated_carbon_filtration.htm

Activated carbon can remove and destroy residual disinfectants (chlorine and chloramine) through a catalytic reduction reaction.

3) http://www.environmental-expert.com/services/dechlorination-on-granular-activated-carbon-230684

For many years, food and beverage manufacturers have relied on activated carbon to remove chlorine, and other taste and odour causing compounds, from water used in their processing.

4) http://www.waterprofessionals.com/process-water/dechlorination.html

Dechlorination can be performed with many types of activated carbon, but granular activated carbon (often 12 x 40 mesh size), or GAC, is the form most commonly used in large water treatment filters.

5) http://www.filterswater.com/water-purification/carbon-dechlorinating-filter.html

Granular Activated Carbon is a reliable means to remove disinfectant residuals - specifically chlorine and chloramine by-products. Carbon provides very high capacity for chlorine ...

6) http://www.total-water.com/technologies/water-filtration/carbon-filters.php

Activated carbon quickly and effectively removes chlorine and many other contaminants from water. Carbon filters are most effective at removing chlorine, sediment, SOCs and volatile organic compounds (VOCs) from water.

7) http://www.wateronline.com/doc/innovative-filtration-and-dissolved-products-one-reliable-supplier-0001

Cel® Membrane Contactors are compact, modular devices that efficiently add and remove dissolved gases from process water to prevent corrosion, lower yield loss and improve water quality. They are used around the world in semiconductor, power, pharmaceutical, petrochemical, analytical/biotechnology, food and beverage, and many other industries. Liqui-Cel® Contactors are capable of removing dissolved O2 down to < 1ppb and CO2 down to < 1ppm with minimal to no chemical use.

8) http://www.chemvironcarbon.com/en/

Over 150 different types of activated carbon are available for applications including drinking water, wastewater, sweetener, pharmaceutical, air and gas purification (natural gas and biogas).

9) http://www.desotec.com/activated-carbon/activated-carbon-for-gases-and-air/

For the purification of air and gases, we mostly use extruded (pressed pellets) or coarse granular activated carbon. Typical applications for gases and air are: ... Removal of volatile organic compounds (VOC) and hydrocarbons.

10) http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C01/C01Links/www.goodwaterco.com/comprob.htm

The most cost effective method to remove chlorine from the water is through a backwashable granular activated carbon filter. Carbon filtration is also very effective in removing radon (gas).

11) http://generalcarbon.com/facts-about-activated-carbon/hydrogen-sulfide/

Most standard activated carbons have little capacity for H2S. However, General Carbon carries both impregnated and non-impregnated high H2S capacity carbons. (H2S = hydrogen sulphide gas).

12) http://repository.lib.ncsu.edu/dr/bitstream/1840.4/1914/1/

Two principal methods have been proposed for removing radon from drinkingwater: aeration and adsorption on granular activated carbon (GAC).

13) http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/radon/basicinformation.cfm

There are two types of point- of-entry devices that remove radon from water: Granular activated carbon (GAC) filters (which use activated carbon to remove the radon) ...

aah yes

Interesting while delving through a few links to find a good bit of info on Radon gas filtration out of water ...

http://extension.psu.edu/natural-resources/water/drinking-water/water-testing/pollutants/reducing-radon-in-drinking-water

Radon Treatment

Keep in mind that the presence of waterborne radon indicates that radon is probably also entering the house through the soil into the basement which is generally the predominant source. Therefore, treating the water without reducing other sources of incoming airborne radon probably will not eliminate the radon threat. Therefore, you should also test the air in your home for radon.

Radon must be removed from water before the radon can become airborne. Devices broadly termed “point- of-entry” treatment are installed in order to treat the water as it enters the home. Treatment equipment can be purchased through water treatment dealers or a select few radon mitigation companies. Be sure to thoroughly investigate and check references for the company you choose.

Granular Activated Carbon (GAC)

One method for removing radon from water is a granular activated carbon (GAC) unit. Although these units come in a variety of models, types and sizes, they all follow the same principle for removal (Figure 1). For radon removal, GAC units are constructed of a fiberglass tank containing granular activated carbon—a fine material that traps and holds the radon. Because of the carbon’s fine particle size, it may easily clog with sediments or other contaminants present in the water. Some GAC units come with a special backwashing feature for removing sediment. The backwash feature, however, may eventually reduce the effectiveness of the carbon to remove radon. Elimination of the sediment source or a sediment filter placed ahead of the GAC tank is the best protection against clogging.

aah yes

and a wee picture of a standard 10" carbon filter ...



advertisement for the chartered association of carbon filter diagrams of Ireland

mordeith

I'm sure advertising is against the charter

aah yes

So we are agreed, you can actually remove dissolved gases from water using activated carbon filtration media as an adsorption method in a confined closed piped feed through filtration system, removing ...

chlorine, chloramine, hydrogen sulphide, radon, radium, volatile organic compounds, odours, ... also tannins, and taste

i thank you

pwurple

aah yes wrote: »

If you are trying to say common water filters like carbon filters can't remove gases, chlorine, hydrogen sulphide gas, radon gas, odours, etc, you could not be more wrong.

I'm telling the OP they don't need to buy something, when what they want... chlorine removal, will occur for free.

aah yes wrote: »

Chlorine is a volatile gas, and the colder the the solution it is dissolved in, the harder it will be to vaporise and the longer the chlorine residual, but left in an open container it is simple chemistry, it will dissipate.

All simple stuff.

Yes. As above. Will dissipate. Free free free.

The OP does not need to buy whatever snakeoil you are selling.

I'm not even going to start on the radon thing. Everyone should test their home for radon. Nothing to do with water filters.

aah yes

pwurple wrote: »

I'm telling the OP they don't need to buy something, when what they want... chlorine removal, will occur for free.


Yes. As above. Will dissipate. Free free free.

The OP does not need to buy whatever snakeoil you are selling.

I'm not even going to start on the radon thing. Everyone should test their home for radon. Nothing to do with water filters.

It is clearly proven you don't know the first thing you are talking about. Take your snake oil debate ideas and sell your nonsense elsewhere.

pwurple

aah yes wrote: »

It is clearly proven you don't know the first thing you are talking about. Take your snake oil debate ideas and sell your nonsense elsewhere.

Who pissed in your cornflakes?

I was agreeing with you. Are we not saying the exact same thing... as I quoted?

aah yes

Cornflakes would not be ideal for filtering out the piss, although could act as a flocculating agent or absorbent for the piss, while the calcium fortified milk acted as a buffering agent to raise the pH of the residual uric acid.

We are not saying the same things about dissolved gases, or radon or other stuff, apart from obvious chlorine sat in a pot venting off kind of scenario. Sure if ye piss in a pot and left it out in the wind it would smell less after a while, sure no one should bother using the toilet what with all that wasted water etc.