S506 - Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken - Have Not Read the Books

Degag

J. Marston wrote: »

Wonder if Loras will demand a trial by combat? Loras vs FrankenMountain?

I was actually thinking the same thing myself. Wasn't it Loras that The Mountain nearly kill in season 1 before The Hound stepped in?

MadYaker

I'm half surprised tyrion was so reluctant to die, whats left for him in this world? If I was him id rather a slit throat of the fate that most likely awaits him in Mereen, getting roasted alive and eaten by dragons...

InTheTrees

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Send me on a link to where somebody said 'they're never watching again' as I didnt think they existed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/19/qutting-game-of-thrones-sansa_n_7332964.html

kingshankly

Asoiaf westeros forum every second poster was like I'm never watching again
The writers should be made accountable for this
Christ almighty some people need to get a reality check

wp_rathead

Think what pissed people off was that they showed Sansa to finally grow a spine and get upper hand off Meranda in bath scene..
..then to have her immediately raped after this significant character development was bit of "Ah Jaysus, she back to square one"..

But yeah, the reaction was ridiculously OTT

Probably one of the more enjoyable episodes this season.

I don't think the Sandsnakes stuff is as bad as people are making out, I think the anti-sandsnakes sentiment is becoming a bit of a circlejerk. I'll reserve judgement about what is going on there until I see it played out.

Poor auld Sansa. Out of the frying pan into the fire, then into the vat of acid, then into the pit of thumb tacs, then dipped in the salt mines. It just keeps getting worse.

Couple of things coming to a head now which should make for an interesting latter half of the season. I think the Tyrion and Jon Snow storylines are the most enjoyable thus far.

irishguitarlad

Just watched episode 5 and 6 there. For me this show is after getting hilariously bad since last season. The pacing is so slow and the mythology is all over the place. However, I am going to stick with it until the end of the season and hope that they give me a reason to come back.

Again this is my own personal opinion, so don't go mad at me!

SoupyNorman

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Just watched episode 5 and 6 there. For me this show is after getting hilariously bad since last season. The pacing is so slow and the mythology is all over the place. However, I am going to stick with it until the end of the season and hope that they give me a reason to come back.

Again this is my own personal opinion, so don't go mad at me!

No, the very sad thing is you’re correct. I mean, season 3 was quite slow paced but we all realized why after the Red Wedding…it really took people a while to process what had just occurred.

I think a lot of people are ignoring the fact the season is so poor (me included) and hoping that it improves with each passing week. There is a danger that they attempt to wedge too much into the last episodes. I really don’t want to feel deflated when a bit of revenge occurs.

I’m beginning to get disheartened with Dranerys and Sandviper scenes.

All I want is a big ‘WHAT THE FOOK’ moment to tide me over. It’s been a while and the audience are yearning for it.

C’mon lads, give Arya a snub nosed uzi or something.

alchemist33

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Just watched episode 5 and 6 there. For me this show is after getting hilariously bad since last season. The pacing is so slow and the mythology is all over the place. However, I am going to stick with it until the end of the season and hope that they give me a reason to come back.

Again this is my own personal opinion, so don't go mad at me!

I agree this season needs to cop itself on. Last year we had Joffrey's death, Tyrion's trial, the head-crushing...er...incident, and the fight on the Wall. These all stood out in the whole of GOT so far as cracking episodes. So far we haven't got anything like them. Granted, three of those I mentioned came in the last half of the series, but we need something to grab onto this time.

Mormegil

alchemist33 wrote: »

As described above. But it seems a bit unbelievable that this cult went from nothing to the greatest power in the city in the space of a couple of episodes.

You have to rememebr that months are going by in those couple of episodes though.


Littlefinger has managed to travel the 1000 plus miles to Winterfell and back in those same episodes.

Huntergonzo

I agree with the sentiments here, it hasn't been a great season so far, things are moving too slowly but I think Monday's episode got things moving a bit, especially with the Queen getting arrested, hopefully now they'll build on this, another stalemate episode would be very disappointing.

EoghanIRL

Anyone else think Theon will crack and kill Ramsey at some stage or will he die in a different way?
He looked close to breaking point at the end of this episode.

Right Turn Clyde

The series is starting to buckle under the weight of its various plot lines. It's trying to squeeze too much into each episode. The pacing is terrible. The inquest scene last night could have been quite good, but it was over before it even got started. The same goes for Arya's scenes, which more than any other warranted a slower treatment. It seems like this episode was about Stuff Happening™ regardless of narrative flow or execution.

I've only read some of the early books so I'm not sure how canonical the series has become, but it either needs to depart from the books, or follow them more closely, because it's not working on the screen. The whole Dorne story is tiresome. It's reminiscent of a 90's Sky 1 fantasy series, with its exotic (i.e. not English) accents and terrible lighting.

I'll continue to watch it because I've bought into the lore, but I'm under no illusions, Game of Thrones has turned into slightly above average television.

Finally, Sansa's rape made for uncomfortable viewing, but it's in keeping with how this series views its female characters.

whatdoicare

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Anyone else think Theon will crack and kill Ramsey at some stage or will he die in a different way?
He looked close to breaking point at the end of this episode.

I'm wondering is Ramsey trying to push him to that or is he punishing him for looking a little bit chuffed with himself for his little part during the wedding also not holding Sansas arm like he was told.

If he does snap it'll be epic, I'm thinking there'll be bits of Ramsey all over the walls and Theon sitting in the middle if it laughing like a maniac.

I'm wondering what Little Fingers real plan is, I think whatever plan hes putting into action is going to be really intricate, hes a real mastermind. He put Sansa there for a reason and it was for his own best interests and noone elses. She was a big prize to give up without huge rewards to be reaped.

That rape scene was awful though, I think the fact it was left up to our imagination and we could only hear her screaming that made it worse than any of the other scenes previous, even Daenrys' scene wasnt as bad, she didn't scream and it was obvious that Drogo wasnt a nut job. We just know Sansa isn't going to be physically okay after all this. Awful scene.

storker

chasmcb wrote: »

. If Reek/Theon could actually dredge up the will to do it he would certainly have the motivation to give Ramsey the kind of horrible death he deserves,

A good old-fashioned flaying would be particularly appropriate - if unlikely.

wp_rathead

The show needs Ramsay though - can't see him being killed yet (despite this being GoT)
Think it more likely that Sansa will get Theon/Reek to light the candle in the abandoned tower
Brienne and Podrick will rescue her and Ramsay take it out on Reek

storker

chasmcb wrote: »

Cersei's blinkered perspective can be a bit thick and counter-productive. Her blind insistence that Tyrion had poisoned Joffrey was totally irrational, as even Jaime could see. And now here she is recklessly jeopardising a crucial alliance for some spiteful motives of her own.

Either Tywin or Tyrion (possibly both) remarked once that Cersei isn't as clever as she thinks she is. She seems to be busy proving that point. I also suspect she's seriously underestimating the old lady. She was so busy putting Tyrion in the frame for Joffrey's death that it doesn't seem to have occurred to her that the Tyrrells might have been involved.

wp_rathead

Surely Lancel is aware of Cersei and the incest with Jamie (aswell as with himself, seen as they 1st Cousins)

SoupyNorman

wp_rathead wrote: »

Surely Lancel is aware of Cersei and the incest with Jamie (aswell as with himself, seen as they 1st Cousins)

Ah yeah, I think the writing is on the wall that the Sparrows will round on Cersei or maybe they will kill Tommen as a product of incest.

Vojera

storker wrote: »

Either Tywin or Tyrion (possibly both) remarked once that Cersei isn't as clever as she thinks she is. She seems to be busy proving that point. I also suspect she's seriously underestimating the old lady. She was so busy putting Tyrion in the frame for Joffrey's death that it doesn't seem to have occurred to her that the Tyrrells might have been involved.

Even Jaime remarked that blaming Tyrion made no sense but that Cersei refused to see any other possibility. I actually really love Cersei's character, she's always interesting to watch and contrary to what Tywin and/or Tyrion said, I think she was quite clever in earlier storylines. But since Joffrey's death she seems to have lost her grip and there's a desperation to her actions that wasn't there before. I have no doubt that arming the Sparrows will come back to haunt her.

Oh, and I super love Olenna. Cersei is definitely underestimating her. We already know that Olenna gets what she wants. She's a straight talker and she's not afraid to do what needs to be done. House Lannister is on the wane and Olenna will have the Tyrells step up if she can.

I wonder is the jilted nature of this season because they're coming up to the end of what GRRM has written? They might be afraid to make certain changes that would make it more watchable because they don't know what the implications of those changes will be down the line. Whereas with the earlier seasons it would have been easier for them to say "let's merge those characters" or "that's not all that important, we'll leave it out" and have an idea of whether they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

DeadHand

The Kingsguard are just itching to get at the Faith Militant. For the second time they were ready to clear house until the well meaning but feeble Tommen called them off.

Cersei is a dangerous fool dragging her house toward ruination. It makes us appreciate the political genius of Tywin to see how quickly things fell apart when he died.

Bronn's weary "ffs" at the dramatic appearance of the slightly ridiculous Sandsnakes was the highlight of the show. I wonder if it was scripted?

Good fight, actually. Seemed to me that Bronn was trying to subdue the girl without killing her (as with Tristan) but finding her tougher than expected. This underestimation meant she could survive him briefly. For Jaime, sadly, it's more a case of surviving than fighting. He's always on the backfoot now, retreating and defensive. A far cry from the aggressive style we saw in season one when he destroyed Jory and took on Ned. Seems to be improving though and learning to use the metal hand to his advantage.

The season's been slow moving so far and short on action but I think the acting has been as strong as ever. A lot of the dialogues have been excellent particularly Mance vs Jon, Roose vs Ramsey, Barristan vs. Dany, Tyrion vs. Varys and Jorah, Oleanna vs. Cersei, Stannis vs. everyone.

It's been low key so far but a long way from terrible. They're building characters. Can't shake the feeling they are building toward something massive.

DeadHand

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

Finally, Sansa's rape made for uncomfortable viewing, but it's in keeping with how this series views its female characters.

Agreed, any portrayal of rape is going to be uncomfortable. But it's more in keeping with the treatment of females in medieval, feudal society than with how the writers view their female characters. The often grim treatment of even noble women in the show is rooted more in realism than misogyny.

storker

Vojera wrote: »

I actually really love Cersei's character, she's always interesting to watch and contrary to what Tywin and/or Tyrion said, I think she was quite clever in earlier storylines. But since Joffrey's death she seems to have lost her grip and there's a desperation to her actions that wasn't there before.

It's rare for Cersei to tickle my funnybone, but I did get a laugh an episode or two ago, when Pycelle observed that "...the Small Council appears to be getting even smaller..." and she hissed back "Not small enough..." Brilliant.

Take the hint old man, this is not a good time to drawing that kind of attention to yourself.

duploelabs

Just on Pycelle, not many people are familiar with this deleted scene

Vojera

storker wrote: »

It's rare for Cersei to tickle my funnybone, but I did get a laugh an episode or two ago, when Pycelle observed that "...the Small Council appears to be getting even smaller..." and she hissed back "Not small enough..." Brilliant.

Take the hint old man, this is not a good time to drawing that kind of attention to yourself.

Ha, reminds me of this pic.

loyatemu

storker wrote: »

Either Tywin or Tyrion (possibly both) remarked once that Cersei isn't as clever as she thinks she is. She seems to be busy proving that point.

she's clearly not that smart, she can barely plot one move ahead. She has now unleashed an army of religious nutcases in the city to punish immoral behaviour... hey Cersei, remember sleeping with your brother and bearing 3 of his kids? It's not exactly top secret information either, I'm sure the High Sparrow is well aware of this.

wp_rathead

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Ah yeah, I think the writing is on the wall that the Sparrows will round on Cersei or maybe they will kill Tommen as a product of incest.

Ah ya my point is that people are saying that the Tyrells will use this "card" to get revenge on Lannisters
I just feel that Sparrows surely already know so this information will hardly be a bombshell to them

chasmcb

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ah ya my point is that people are saying that the Tyrells will use this "card" to get revenge on Lannisters
I just feel that Sparrows surely already know so this information will hardly be a bombshell to them

I'm assuming Cersei, unlike Tommen the Wuss, would not hesitate to call on the King's Guard if the Sparrows actually tried to arrest her. That's assuming her status as Queen Mother entitles her to issue orders to them and they're not exclusively the king's troop (didn't she issue commands to them previously at various times, like when Ned Stark got scuppered?)

InTheTrees

The religious court scene really didn't sit well with me at all.

Sure the "king" is weak and ineffective and the religious nutjobs have the power given to them by Cersei but it still seemed unrealistic.

loyatemu

InTheTrees wrote: »

The religious court scene really didn't sit well with me at all.

Sure the "king" is weak and ineffective and the religious nutjobs have the power given to them by Cersei but it still seemed unrealistic.

Monarchs have used religious inquisitors to bring down rivals in the past - the Spanish Inquistions, Thomas Cromwell etc...

Degag

Think people are getting slightly carried away.... Yeah, its been slightly slow this season but its still miles ahead of most other tv series' out there.

tricky D

Slow so far.

Wasn't there talk of a massacre or two along the Red Wedding lines towards the end of the season (spoilered just in case)

.

InTheTrees

loyatemu wrote: »

Monarchs have used religious inquisitors to bring down rivals in the past - the Spanish Inquistions, Thomas Cromwell etc...

Yes. But they very rarely used them to bring about their own downfall.

Which is why having the inquisitors drag of the reigning Monarch was a little odd at such an informal hearing. It just felt wrong.

I get that cersi is really the power and that the king is ineffective, but it still seems odd the Queen couldnt call on her own guards to prevent her being carried off to a jail cell.

Just curious thats all. I wont quit watching, its just that combined with the awful fight scene later, and the general dullness of this season, I find I'm getting more critical.

As my GF said last sunday; EIGHT THOUSAND years guarding the wall and they havent figured out how to put glass in the windows.

Right Turn Clyde

Degag wrote: »

Think people are getting slightly carried away.... Yeah, its been slightly slow this season but its still miles ahead of most other tv series' out there.

In previous years, yes. But not this year. Personally, I think it's past its best. It simply cannot handle the amount of different plot strands it has going. I feel sorry for the writers because it's obviously very hard to find the right balance. Clearly they can't focus on all the characters each week, yet abandoning characters for an episode or two isn't working either.

And speaking of abandoning characters, where's Bran? We're over halfway through the new season and there's been no mention of him. Even worse, we haven't heard anything from Rickon in what, 20 episodes? Perhaps that works in the books, but it simply does not work on television. You're being asked to care about characters who then disappear for hours of screen time. Despite the series' celebrated moral ambiguity, the Starks are still the 'good guys', and the way Bran, and particularly Rickon are being handled is deeply unsatisfactory. You can tell that Bran has a major role to play, and I suspect that when he does come back he'll be back with a bang, but none of that changes the fact that one of the most interesting narratives of the last season has been totally ignored this time around.

The show just isn't very well written. Yes, the dialogue is quite sharp, and there's been some tremendous set pieces, but the introduction of so many new characters has sucked the life out of the show, as it done with the books. Admittedly I'm not up to date with the novels, but I can already see Martin struggling with the weight of everything he's created, and apparently it gets even worse, which doesn't bode very well for readers and viewers of the series.

YurOK2

I'm so puzzled by all the backlash over the Ramsey/Sansa storyline.
Ramsey has been torturing folks for a long time. He has been torturing Theon/Reek for what, 2 seasons now?
Did people think that despite all of this, he was going to have a traditional bedding ceremony with Sansa, rose petals, candles and essential oils? I mean, did people really not see this coming?

YurOK2

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

In previous years, yes. But not this year. Personally, I think it's past its best. It simply cannot handle the amount of different plot strands it has going. I feel sorry for the writers because it's obviously very hard to find the right balance. Clearly they can't focus on all the characters each week, yet abandoning characters for an episode or two isn't working either.

And speaking of abandoning characters, where's Bran? We're over halfway through the new season and there's been no mention of him. Even worse, we haven't heard anything from Rickon in what, 20 episodes? Perhaps that works in the books, but it simply does not work on television. You're being asked to care about characters who then disappear for hours of screen time. Despite the series' celebrated moral ambiguity, the Starks are still the 'good guys', and the way Bran, and particularly Rickon are being handled is deeply unsatisfactory. You can tell that Bran has a major role to play, and I suspect that when he does come back he'll be back with a bang, but none of that changes the fact that one of the most interesting narratives of the last season has been totally ignored this time around.

The show just isn't very well written. Yes, the dialogue is quite sharp, and there's been some tremendous set pieces, but the introduction of so many new characters has sucked the life out of the show, as it done with the books. Admittedly I'm not up to date with the novels, but I can already see Martin struggling with the weight of everything he's created, and apparently it gets even worse, which doesn't bode very well for readers and viewers of the series.

Bran and Hodor are definitely not going to be in this season, I'm pretty sure that was announced at the end of last season. Don't know about Rickon.

Edit - funnily enough I was just scrolling through facebook and this popped up - http://intvseries.com/heres-why-game-of-thrones-season-5-definitely-wont-have-bran-stark

Right Turn Clyde

YurOK2 wrote: »

Bran and Hodor are definitely not going to be in this season, I'm pretty sure that was announced at the end of last season. Don't know about Rickon.

That's disappointing. It really is one of the most interesting arcs. I could do with more Bran and less Tyrion, whose terrible accent is matched only by Aiden Gillen's, the only Irish man who can't do an Irish accent (in fairness to him though, he makes an excellent Littlefinger).

SoupyNorman

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

That's disappointing. It really is one of the most interesting arcs. I could do with more Bran and less Tyrion, whose terrible accent is matched only by Aiden Gillen's, the only Irish man who can't do an Irish accent (in fairness to him though, he makes an excellent Littlefinger).

Woah, you can diss Gillen all you like but dont be talkin' bout Drinkage like that.

Right Turn Clyde

YurOK2 wrote: »

Edit - funnily enough I was just scrolling through facebook and this popped up - http://intvseries.com/heres-why-game-of-thrones-season-5-definitely-wont-have-bran-stark

I do remember reading something from Martin before where he said that the various chapters in each book aren't necessarily happening in parallel. So that's a very sound explanation. I don't think it makes for good television, but it seems to be out of their hands. In fact, it looks like another example of the very difficult job the writers have. I disagree with him about Bran's training though. I think it would make for more interesting television than another bare-arse scene, which is put there to make HBO-subcribers feel like they're not wasting their money.

Right Turn Clyde

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Woah, you can diss Gillen all you like but dont be talkin' bout Drinkage like that.

Ha, yeah I've had this debate before alright. Look, Tyrion's a great character, and Dinklage has made the role his own, but his accent is… I'll be kind... not good.

Zaph

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

That's disappointing. It really is one of the most interesting arcs.

Personally I think it's one of the most boring and I'm in no hurry to see him back. Imo, the show is at its best when it has all the political intrugue stuff going on, and unfortunately when Brann returns we'll end up with a lot more of that warg nonsense instead.

Right Turn Clyde

Zaph wrote: »

Personally I think it's one of the most boring and I'm in no hurry to see him back. Imo, the show is at its best when it has all the political intrugue stuff going on, and unfortunately when Brann returns we'll end up with a lot more of that warg nonsense instead.

The political intrigue isn't intriguing enough for me. But I understand your point of view. The series definitely contains an odd paring of ideas, but I guess it makes it somewhat unique. I quite like the fantasy element so clearly I'm going to feel let down when it's cast aside as it currently is.

tipparetops

GOT is struggling this season.
there is just too many average characters and they are dragging it down.
I know they are trying to stay true to the books, but killing off the strong, better characters was a brave decision but it also could be the undoing of the whole show.

For example, Anytime they go to the wall I am secretly hoping they have all been wiped out.

mikemac1

Winterfell to the wall isn't a vast distance. I remember Tyrion did it Season 1 along with some thieves and rapists on their way as recruits. And that deserter at the very beginning ran & marched the distance

In 2-3 weeks (I'm guessing) or less Stannis will be there to sweep away the Boltons.

So Sansa could be a bride and a widow within a month.

All this talk about the rape scence and I was thinking about the timing. Just a few weeks later and she may not have gotten married.

seligehgit

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Woah, you can diss Gillen all you like but dont be talkin' bout Drinkage like that.

I've found Tyrion a tad tiresome this season,not near the peaks of previous seasons when he plotting and **oring in Kings Landing.

Roar

tipparetops wrote: »

GOT is struggling this season.
there is just too many average characters and they are dragging it down.
I know they are trying to stay true to the books, but killing off the strong, better characters was a brave decision but it also could be the undoing of the whole show.

For example, Anytime they go to the wall I am secretly hoping they have all been wiped out.

I disagree massively with that. The wall scenes have been my favourite this season.

Roar

loyatemu wrote: »

Monarchs have used religious inquisitors to bring down rivals in the past - the Spanish Inquistions, Thomas Cromwell etc...

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Our chief weapon is surprise. Surprise and fear.

mzungu

Degag wrote: »

Think people are getting slightly carried away.... Yeah, its been slightly slow this season but its still miles ahead of most other tv series' out there.

For pretty much all the seasons so far folks have been complaining about slow pacing, bad writing, filler episodes etc.Then the last few episodes kick into gear and its all forgotten about...until the following year when the process repeats itself.

YurOK2 wrote: »

I'm so puzzled by all the backlash over the Ramsey/Sansa storyline.
Ramsey has been torturing folks for a long time. He has been torturing Theon/Reek for what, 2 seasons now?
Did people think that despite all of this, he was going to have a traditional bedding ceremony with Sansa, rose petals, candles and essential oils? I mean, did people really not see this coming?

Id say half of it is to generate publicity for the show.

Zaph

Roar wrote: »

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Our chief weapon is surprise. Surprise and fear.

And ruthless efficiency!

GerB40

seligehgit wrote: »

I've found Tyrion a tad tiresome this season,not near the peaks of previous seasons when he plotting and **oring in Kings Landing.

Not being smart but that's kind of the point. Tyrion in Kings Landing was a Lord, a Lannister Lord at that. He was one of the best plotters in a city full of plotting and scheming and he knew it. But right now he's far out of his comfort zone. Just a dwarf out in the wild. What worked for him in Kings Landing, his intelligence and pragmatism, aren't worth a shít to him when he's dealing with the folks he's dealing with now.