Summer 2015 Transfer Window General Discussion

MightyMandarin

The only reason Pedro was kept out of the side last season was because when you have Suarez, Neymar and Messi in your starting XI, someone has to be benched. Arda is one of the best players in Europe and unless they give him a central role and relegate Rakitic or Iniesta to the bench (highly unlikely), I can see him being a benchwarmer come January.

CSF

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Arda is one of the best players in Europe.

Wasn't even in the best 3 or 4 players at his previous club, not in the best 10 at his current. Huge shout there.

MightyMandarin

CSF wrote: »

Wasn't even in the best 3 or 4 players at his previous club, not in the best 10 at his current. Huge shout there.

Who's better at Atletico? Griezmann probably is, but Godin and Koke are at his level. He's not top10, but definitely top20, and he's a massive loss for Atletico this year, although his disciplinary record wasn't the best.

CSF

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Who's better at Atletico? Griezmann probably is, but Godin and Koke are at his level. He's not top10, but definitely top20, and he's a massive loss for Atletico this year, although his disciplinary record wasn't the best.

Godin and Koke are on another level to Turan. Turan in the top 20 in the world (I think that is what you were saying in your last part but correct me if I'm wrong) isn't right. There are 20 better players than Turan at Real and Barca alone probably. The likes of David Silva, Cesc Fabregas and Marco Reus probably aren't even in the top 20 best players in the world never mind Turan. Clinging on to top 50 if he is doing well. Will struggle for starts at Barcelona as you said.

Sanity_Saviour

CSF wrote: »

Willian is heavily underrated. Much more suited to Mourinho's style too. But it doesn't have to be an either/or in any case. Both players have a non-starring role to play in the Chelsea squad. Chelsea's primary strengths last season was probably the supporting cast (maybe I'm going too far with my movie comparisons here) in any case.

I don't see Pedro being able to make the same impact as a Hazard, Suarez, Aguero, Sanchez, but Chelsea have Hazard to be the main man anyway. Pedro will do a good job in easing the goal burden on Hazard and Costa which is something Willian doesn't really provide himself.

One of the greatest myths in football.

He's a winger who doesn't seem to possess any of the skills needed to be a winger. Fantastic at tracking back, winning the ball back in our own half, being an extra man to banish counter attacks and, behind Ramires, the hardest working player at Chelsea. Would make an exceptional defensive midfield player.

However, as an attacking player in the middle or on the wing, I'm not sure there's a more ineffective player in the top European Leagues.

Every time he gets the ball in the opposition half he grinds an attack to a shuddering halt with one of: (i) a pass to no-one, (ii)an inability to even attempt to beat the man leading to him giving a backwards pass to Ivanovic, (iii) trying to dribble in the wrong direction then inexplicably losing the ball no matter how much space he has, (iv) an utterly atrocious cross or (v) a wayward shot.

Not only this but he is our free kick taker despite not finding a man from a cross since man was last on the moon.

Whenever there is any sort of attacking impetus from Chelsea (a trait that seems to be on the wane since January 2015!) his positioning seems to be to focussed upon staying as far away from potential space as possible, or to remain deep and hope for a nothing ball so he can deliver a nothing pass). I think this can be best portayed by the counter attack by Hazard that wasn't to be against Chelsea where Willian was easily the best option but he was not to be trusted by his teammates in front of goal.

He is no threat in front of goal, especially when put beside Hazard or Costa!

A "Mourinho" player who really should not be starting if we have other options (compare our play when he was starting v when Schurrle was starting!). Thankfully we have a player in Pedro with a proven record of being able to contribute to meaningful attacks!

MightyMandarin

CSF wrote: »

Godin and Koke are on another level to Turan. Turan in the top 20 in the world (I think that is what you were saying in your last part but correct me if I'm wrong) isn't right. There are 20 better players than Turan at Real and Barca alone probably. The likes of David Silva, Cesc Fabregas and Marco Reus probably aren't even in the top 20 best players in the world never mind Turan. Clinging on to top 50 if he is doing well. Will struggle for starts at Barcelona as you said.

That's an even bigger statement to make imo. Real and Barca have plenty of better players, but 20? Nah, even 10 is a stretch. Arda is Barca's 4th best attacking player and sitting on the bench behind Messi, Suarez and Neymar is no shame considering all 3 would be in the top5 in Europe imo. Although I don't think he's meant to be Pedro's replacement, he's certainly an upgrade.

Godin is a very good player, but in this age of football, where there is a chronic lack of top CB's, I think he's overrated. Don't get me wrong he's a top player in his position, but had he been born 10 years earlier, I don't think he'd be rated as highly. Koke vs Arda is 50:50 for me; both are very good and played in similar roles at Atletico.

CSF

Not every wide player has to be a constantly dangerous attacking threat though. Players like Sanchez and Hazard are great but increasingly rare. Willian is there to perform a specific role, start attacks, use the ball well and work hard for the team. Willian is exceptional at these things. Is he going to score a load of goals? Nope, is he going to provide that final ball? Not as often as Fabregas and Oscar for sure.

But the Mourinho super rigid functional system doesn't work to its best without players like Willian who do the things mentioned above better than the other teams around them. As far as I can see Mata stopped being in favour with Mourinho because he didn't, and Mourinho had decided Hazard was his luxury player from that point on. Willian is a player who does those things better than the other teams around them. Pedro doesn't do those things as well as Willian but will score more goals so Mourinho will be delighted to have both to use when appropriate.

CSF

MightyMandarin wrote: »

That's an even bigger statement to make imo. Real and Barca have plenty of better players, but 20? Nah, even 10 is a stretch. Arda is Barca's 4th best attacking player and sitting on the bench behind Messi, Suarez and Neymar is no shame considering all 3 would be in the top5 in Europe imo. Although I don't think he's meant to be Pedro's replacement, he's certainly an upgrade.

Godin is a very good player, but in this age of football, where there is a chronic lack of top CB's, I think he's overrated. Don't get me wrong he's a top player in his position, but had he been born 10 years earlier, I don't think he'd be rated as highly. Koke vs Arda is 50:50 for me; both are very good and played in similar roles at Atletico.

Arda is only Barca's 4th best attacking player if you don't include Iniesta and Rakitic and if you don't include them then there are no more senior players to compare him to.

At Real you have all of Benzema, Ronaldo, Bale, Isco and Rodriguez as better players than him. That's 8 players between the 2 teams alone without even dipping into midfielders, defenders and goalkeepers. Turan is a useful player who is not elite.

MightyMandarin

CSF wrote: »

Arda is only Barca's 4th best attacking player if you don't include Iniesta and Rakitic and if you don't include them then there are no more senior players to compare him to.

At Real you have all of Benzema, Ronaldo, Bale, Isco and Rodriguez as better players than him. That's 8 players between the 2 teams alone without even dipping into midfielders, defenders and goalkeepers. Turan is a useful player who is not elite.

Isco has done little to make a big impact at Real and hasn't got the ability of Turan imo, and James had a decent season last year but nothing like WC2014.

I think you are overselling Barca and Real a bit aswell. Turan was a key player for Atletico who won the title in 13/14 and got to a CL final and lost by a whisker; they also drove Real very close in the CL last year too. Real and Barca have elite players in their front 3, but I think after that Arda, Koke and Griezmann are as good, if not better, than the others mentioned.

CSF

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Isco has done little to make a big impact at Real and hasn't got the ability of Turan imo, and James had a decent season last year but nothing like WC2014.

I think you are overselling Barca and Real a bit aswell. Turan was a key player for Atletico who won the title in 13/14 and got to a CL final and lost by a whisker; they also drove Real very close in the CL last year too. Real and Barca have elite players in their front 3, but I think after that Arda, Koke and Griezmann are as good, if not better, than the others mentioned.

I'm an Atletico 'fan', been over to a few games, watch them every week. It's definitely not a Real/Barca bias. Koke absolutely as good as his Real/Barca equivalents if not better, chap is on another level just like Godin, Griezmann is also great but slightly less so, Turan a level below.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/634660557778493440

Sky Sources: Stoke reject Norwich bid for Jonathan Walters.

snowblind

Alex Sandro joins Juventus (for 20M according to reports) from Porto

cson

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

A "Mourinho" player who really should not be starting if we have other options (compare our play when he was starting v when Schurrle was starting!). Thankfully we have a player in Pedro with a proven record of being able to contribute to meaningful attacks!

Shirley's sale puzzled me a bit; I know Chelsea got their money back plus interest but then went and bought Cuadrado. Definitely a step backwards there.

hufpc8w3adnk65

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/634671396602421248

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/IndySport/status/634680883094552577

Henrikh Mkhitaryan to Liverpool: £15m bid 'accepted' by Borussia Dortmund, Juventus remain interested

DubDani

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IndySport/status/634680883094552577

Henrikh Mkhitaryan to Liverpool: £15m bid 'accepted' by Borussia Dortmund, Juventus remain interested

I pretty much doubt that. He is blossoming so far under their new coach and has already scored something like 10 goals this season. There is IMO no way Dortmund will let him go anywhere.

CSF

That would be some signing for Liverpool. Not where they really need a signing but some player all the same.

JPA

DubDani wrote: »

I pretty much doubt that. He is blossoming so far under their new coach and has already scored something like 10 goals this season. There is IMO no way Dortmund will let him go anywhere.

Ya, that story makes no sense. He's been doing well and they'd be making a big loss.

ERG89

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IndySport/status/634680883094552577

Henrikh Mkhitaryan to Liverpool: £15m bid 'accepted' by Borussia Dortmund, Juventus remain interested

Can't wait to see him at left back

MrMac84

MrMac84 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/634671396602421248

spin.

Bobby Baccala

snowblind wrote: »

Alex Sandro joins Juventus (for 20M according to reports) from Porto

Quality signing for juve

Sheepy99

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

One of the greatest myths in football.

He's a winger who doesn't seem to possess any of the skills needed to be a winger. Fantastic at tracking back, winning the ball back in our own half, being an extra man to banish counter attacks and, behind Ramires, the hardest working player at Chelsea. Would make an exceptional defensive midfield player.

However, as an attacking player in the middle or on the wing, I'm not sure there's a more ineffective player in the top European Leagues.

Every time he gets the ball in the opposition half he grinds an attack to a shuddering halt with one of: (i) a pass to no-one, (ii)an inability to even attempt to beat the man leading to him giving a backwards pass to Ivanovic, (iii) trying to dribble in the wrong direction then inexplicably losing the ball no matter how much space he has, (iv) an utterly atrocious cross or (v) a wayward shot.

Not only this but he is our free kick taker despite not finding a man from a cross since man was last on the moon.

Whenever there is any sort of attacking impetus from Chelsea (a trait that seems to be on the wane since January 2015!) his positioning seems to be to focussed upon staying as far away from potential space as possible, or to remain deep and hope for a nothing ball so he can deliver a nothing pass). I think this can be best portayed by the counter attack by Hazard that wasn't to be against Chelsea where Willian was easily the best option but he was not to be trusted by his teammates in front of goal.

He is no threat in front of goal, especially when put beside Hazard or Costa!

A "Mourinho" player who really should not be starting if we have other options (compare our play when he was starting v when Schurrle was starting!). Thankfully we have a player in Pedro with a proven record of being able to contribute to meaningful attacks!

He crossed for Ivanovic in the league cup semi vs Liverpool.

Hyperbole, I know...

Left Back on the Bench

zerks wrote:

Henrikh Mkhitaryan to Liverpool: £15m bid 'accepted' by Borussia Dortmund, Juventus remain interested

Did he not turn Liverpool down to sign for dortmund before?

Magico Gonzalez

Benzema to every team ever, every summer for the last handful of years.

Rayne Wooney

thought Mkhitaryan was fairly crap thus Dortmund wanting rid

a midtable PL club is probably around his level

Corholio

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

thought Mkhitaryan was fairly crap thus Dortmund wanting rid

a midtable PL club is probably around his level

Ehhh.....No.

Oat23

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

thought Mkhitaryan was fairly crap thus Dortmund wanting rid

a midtable PL club is probably around his level

Mkhitaryan never lived up to the hype he came with under Klopp, but Tuchel has been getting the best out of him. Don't see them letting him leave. Not for €20m anyway.

Paully D

Paully D wrote: »

Jonathan de Guzman off to Sunderland, according to Sky Italia. Loan with a £3.5m obligation to buy at the end.

Reports of Marseille interest too so it's difficult to see it happening unfortunately.

Has turned Sunderland down as expected. Shambles of a club really.

Kiwi_knock

Andre Gray signs for Burnley for £9 million, crazy money.

Harry Palmr

Holy moley. Don't spend the parachute money all at once lads!

Degag

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Andre Gray signs for Burnley for £9 million, crazy money.

Pretty strange transfer considering Burnley were trying to be prudent last year and spent hardly no money - think 3.5m was the most they spent on a player - to spending 9m on a player in the Championship.

Iused2likebusts

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Andre Gray signs for Burnley for £9 million, crazy money.

Shocked with that very out of character with how they usually do business. Really need a goalscorer with a bit of pace. Never seen gray play but hopefully he is that type of player. They have always had good strikers in recent years robbie blake steven fletcher Jay Rodriguez Danny ings Charlie Austin.

OwaynOTT

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Andre Gray signs for Burnley for £9 million, crazy money.

I've missed his commentary over the years but I've always thought he could still do the biz as a striker and I'm happy to see him back.

OwaynOTT

Andre Gray



A fiendish plan to get back into sky punditry

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/footballitalia/status/635474438654455808

Cuadrado on loan to Juve,

https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/635447819869003776

Lucas on loan to Besiktas.

Harry Palmr

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/635447819869003776

Lucas on loan to Besiktas.

Daily Fail wide of the mark again.

Dickerty

Spurs expected to bid £20M for Berahino??

I suddenly don't feel bad that Pool spent that amount on Lovren and Markovic, but that maybe City for Sterling for a song...

Corholio

Dickerty wrote: »

Spurs expected to bid £20M for Berahino??

I suddenly don't feel bad that Pool spent that amount on Lovren and Markovic, but that maybe City for Sterling for a song...

Berahino has done way more than Markovic and Lovren stained his good season with Southampton quite considerably last season. I think Berahino will do well at Spurs, if a small centre forward can do good under Pulis he's doing something right.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/636175500017319936

New £22 million bid from Spurs for Berahino.

Juan Cuadrado signs for Juve on season long loan from Chelsea.

Cantona's Collars

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Daily Fail wide of the mark again.

Like so many papers,imagine how us United fans feel,they know nothing of transfer dealings at the club this year yet print stuff everyday.

Harry Palmr

True but its fun to see club X (when its not your team) linked with brilliant player Y and you just know its fantasy fiction

Dickerty

Corholio wrote: »

Berahino has done way more than Markovic

Let me stop you there - has Berahino got 20 international caps, and 3 goals, as well as league winners medals in Serbia and Portugal, before the age of 21?

I like him as a striker, said that Liverpool should have signed him a year ago, but £20M is crazy money for him.

MD1990

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

thought Mkhitaryan was fairly crap thus Dortmund wanting rid

a midtable PL club is probably around his level

lol u think alot of things. Usually there isn't much truth to these thoughts.

Corholio

Dickerty wrote: »

Let me stop you there - has Berahino got 20 international caps, and 3 goals, as well as league winners medals in Serbia and Portugal, before the age of 21?

I like him as a striker, said that Liverpool should have signed him a year ago, but £20M is crazy money for him.

Considering they both play football in the Premier League, Berahino has proved himself way more than Markovic. Your hardly arguing that are ya.

Giggsy11

West Brom rejected the second bid from Spurs and they confirmed it. Good that some club is taking Spurs for a ride.

Dickerty

Corholio wrote: »

Considering they both play football in the Premier League, Berahino has proved himself way more than Markovic. Your hardly arguing that are ya.

He's had 4 seasons to do it (albeit with some loans out), so you are comparing one season for a new arrival to the 4th season for a player who grew up in English football.

Like I said, I would be a lot more comfortable with the fee paid for Markovic if the going rate for an average English striker is £20M+

Corholio

Dickerty wrote: »

He's had 4 seasons to do it (albeit with some loans out), so you are comparing one season for a new arrival to the 4th season for a player who grew up in English football.

Like I said, I would be a lot more comfortable with the fee paid for Markovic if the going rate for an average English striker is £20M+

My point is I'd feel a lot more comfortable spending £20m on Berahino than I would on Markovic. £20m isn't even that much for a striker these days, especially a young, English one who scored goals for an average enough team.

Paully D

John Stones hands in a transfer request. "Good" news for Everton in that they won't have to pay him his 'loyalty' bonus now when he leaves, so more money for the coffers.

Jonny Evans to Everton then I'd imagine.

MightyMandarin

Corholio wrote: »

My point is I'd feel a lot more comfortable spending £20m on Berahino than I would on Markovic. £20m isn't even that much for a striker these days, especially a young, English one who scored goals for an average enough team.

Good point, but Spurs really should've tried harder to get Ings. Both players had similar records last season, and Ings would've been a much cheaper transfer. Speaking as a neutral, Ings is absolutely wasting his career at Liverpool and will not get the chances he could've gotten at Spurs, especially now that Sturridge is coming back.

Iused2likebusts

Stones would be better off staying with Everton atleast for 1 more season. He is only starting to establish himself can't see him playing week in week out at Chelsea. He will get his move in time. Fair enough when your 23-24 looking to win trophies etc but he is only getting his career up and running.