A lesson in media manupilation or reporting

Grizzly 45

Seeing that we are all sowhat peed off with prime times hatchet job on our sport.Heres a little lesson in how papers can twist a story to editorial policies or journalistic views or for just plain stupid sensationalism.With this kind of gob****ery being fed to the public are we surprised we have an uphill battle explaining the finer nuances of our sport to the great unwashed??

article 1
Gardai are investigating the discovery of live ammunition after children stumbled across machine-gun bullets and shotgun cartridges in a south Dublin park.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/schoolchildren-find-bag-of-machine-gun-bullets-and-shotgun-cartridges-in-south-dublin-park-31230794.html


article 2 [see attachment]same story with twists.

Sorry Mods ,couldnt find a link to this, however for journalistic credit its the Irish Daily mail of Sat/Sun 16/17th 2015

Sparks

/facepalm

homerhop

Where do these people learn their trade. It's embarrassing

tac foley

The level of expertise shown here is truly astounding - at a glance, .303 ammunition used in a 'machine gun'. More than that, the shotgun ammunition seems to have been intended for use in a shotgun, of all things.

What errant sh*te.

Add to that that deer hunting is 'illegal', too...

Dr Kelly should stick to doing what he does best and stop it with the fairy stories.

tac

gunhappy_ie

tac foley wrote: »

The experise shown here is truly astounding - at a glance, .303 ammunition used in a 'machine gun'. More than that, the shotgun ammunition seems to have been intended for use in a shotgun, of all things.

What errant sh*te.

Add to that that deer hunting is 'illegal', too...

Dr Kelly should stick to doing what he does best and stop it with the fairy stories.

tac

Remember the film "lock stock and two smoking barrels" ? 1 criminal had a bren gun. I know what your thinking Tac, a Bren is a light machine gun in .303 :P but if its in colour it HAS to be true ...... just saying :P

GH

tac foley

'strue, the BG in the movie DID have a BREN gun, but the .303 could equally be used in a single-shot or magazine-fed rifle...far less of a WMD than a machine-gun.

Since us mere mortals have not been vouchsafed with a picture of the headstamp of this massive collection of highly dangerous, world-threatening ammunition, it has not been possible to determine whether or not it was of military or civilian manufacture. Obviously, well, to you and me, that is, if it was civilian-made ammunition it is extremely unlikely to have been intended for use in any kind of a machine gun, since us civilians do not have such items.

However, that is fact flying in the face of outrageous fiction, and we all know which version is going to win, right?

tac

Grizzly 45

"The fact that the shotgun ammunition and 303 ammo was found together is sinister,as they are obviously for two different types of weapons."

ASTOUNDING Detective work there!!Would put Sherlock Holmes in the bumbling amatuer leauge that deductive skill ....What next ??? Water has wetting and moistuerisng properties??

civdef

"The fact that the shotgun ammunition and 303 ammo was found together is sinister,as they are obviously for two different types of weapons."

ASTOUNDING Detective work there!!Would put Sherlock Holmes in the bumbling amatuer leauge that deductive skill ....What next ??? Water has wetting and moistuerisng properties??

Just sayin'
http://www.icollector.com/J-P-Sauer-Shotgun-Rifle-Combination-Cape-Gun_i12219720




Are ye getting too wound up about this? The 303 certainly was (and probably still is) used in several machine guns. So the Independent heading is a bit sensationalist but not worth getting worked up over.

The unnamed Daily Mail "source" is talking rubbish, obviously - but what do you expect from that rag?

tac foley

IF the .303 ammunition was military, I would tend to agree with you, but since we don't know whether it was military or civilian, to make such a statement as fact is simply crazy.

Thanks for posting the link to the German gun, often, in English, called a Cape gun because of its popularity in Southern Africa. It is a combination of a smooth-bore and a rifled barrel in a side-by-side format. If the smooth was on top of the rifles barrel in an over-and-under format, it would be called a Bochbuchseflinte, and not a Cape gun.

Although such a gun is rare, I dare say that they are to be found in Ireland, although explaining quite why you need such a combination gun to your local doubting Thomas Superintendent might require some deft argument.

tac

Grizzly 45

tac foley wrote: »

IF the .303 ammunition was military, I would tend to agree with you, but since we don't know whether it was military or civilian, to make such a statement as fact is simply crazy.

Thanks for posting the link to the German gun, often, in English, called a Cape gun because of its popularity in Southern Africa. It is a combination of a smooth-bore and a rifled barrel in a side-by-side format. If the smooth was on top of the rifles barrel in an over-and-under format, it would be called a Bochbuchseflinte, and not a Cape gun.

Although such a gun is rare, I dare say that they are to be found in Ireland, although explaining quite why you need such a combination gun to your local doubting Thomas Superintendent might require some deft argument.

tac

Well I do have a bockbuechsflinte aka an o/u rifle shotgun myself in 20ga/22mag.Actually it would be a fine capercaile gun if we had any here but its works well as my day to day walking out about the farm gun

Nekarsulm

Will these items now be recorded as 6 separate Firearms ?
Luckily no deadly Telescopic Sights or Gun safes were found.

tac foley

@Grizzly_45 - nice, but I was referring to a 12g + .303 rather than a 20g + 22.WMR.

@Neckarsulm - undoubtedly you are right, and the bag as well. For sure if a tin box that holds ammunition can be counted as a firearm, so can a bag holding such items of mass destruction.

You have to remember that paranoia with regard to guns and ammunition is not just found in Ireland. A few years back here in UK an entire city centre was cordoned off for around 24 hours after an empty .22 cartridge case was discovered in a shop doorway.

The horror of it all!!!

tac

Grizzly 45

A 12 Ga with .303 would be a prettttyyy unusual Cape gun TBH.In fact it would be decidedly..welll...English.:P Us Krauts favour more 16 ga with some sort of 7 ,8 or 9 point somthing milimeter in the cape guns or drillings of yester year;)
So unless someone has a bespoke cape gun up in D4 and is missing a few rounds somehow.....I'd say it is still a stash and sensationalist bunk reporting.

tac foley

a. I didn't post the link to a German 'cape Gun'. I DID take advantage of it by posting up a supposition about the possible rationale for the odd mix of calibres found in the park.

b. I didn't say it was a German-made Cape gun for which the ammunition had been intended.

c. I didn't offer an opinion as to the likely location of the manufacture of the purported Cape gun, either.

I simply pointed out that a likely combination of .303 and 12g would be found in a Cape gun; a very common combination found in Southern Africa or even India during the days of the Raj.

My pal Norman has five Cape guns, two of which were made by Rodda of Calcutta and are in 12g x .303. I have shot all five of them. Many Indian Cape guns took advantage of the ease of acquisition of military ammunition, since much of the shooting there - on Shikhar - was undertaken by officers of the British Indian Army. All of his other Cape guns made by Rodda are in .577 Snider x 12g. You will recall that the .577 Snider was a common military cartdge in India until well into the 20th C - in the hands of second-line Indian national troops, military facility guards as well as prison guards, railway police, customs police et al.

tac

Grizzly 45

Tac
in ref ypur points A to C, I or anyone else never said you did. :)All I profounded on was that it was unlikely to be a German made gun as it is a more British combination of calibers in a more commonly seen German design of gun.[Albeit more in an O/U than S/S combination these days]
Should this be the case,it shouldnt be a great task to see does anyone have such a combination of such calibers on ticket in D4 or nationally on their tickets.And to ask them why they are storing their ammo in a hedge next a school....Oh Wait.... Going by the effective PULSE....maybe not.

Be as it may,we are getting away from the whole point of this ,that this is a rubbish article of hack journalism that if the reporter had bothered switching on her computor and doing some 5 mins of basic research would have found her "expert"[1] isn't! and [2] that she had a paragraph article at best of facts [3] wouldnt be making a fool of herself and further cementing the belif in the shooting world that the media is naturally biased against anything related to guns in the western world[4] Wouldnt be providing us with a thread here.

clawback07

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Tac
in ref ypur points A to C, I or anyone else never said you did. :)All I profounded on was that it was unlikely to be a German made gun as it is a more British combination of calibers in a more commonly seen German design of gun.[Albeit more in an O/U than S/S combination these days]
Should this be the case,it shouldnt be a great task to see does anyone have such a combination of such calibers on ticket in D4 or nationally on their tickets.And to ask them why they are storing their ammo in a hedge next a school....Oh Wait.... Going by the effective PULSE....maybe not.

Be as it may,we are getting away from the whole point of this ,that this is a rubbish article of hack journalism that if the reporter had bothered switching on her computor and doing some 5 mins of basic research would have found her "expert"[1] isn't! and [2] that she had a paragraph article at best of facts [3] wouldnt be making a fool of herself and further cementing the belif in the shooting world that the media is naturally biased against anything related to guns in the western world[4] Wouldnt be providing us with a thread here.

surely the point is that no hack will let the truth get in the way of a good story and once her editor has been assured that no one has been libelled then publish away . I'm inclined to think of some of the so called security correspondents who should know better yet continue to print misleading articles and damn the truth . Some things will never change.