Issue with my terrier and a cat

Bendihorse

I live in a second floor apartment block of four. The entrance takes you up a stairs to a door into the first hallway. That hall has the doors to the first two apartments, then there is a second door through to a second hallway, which has the door to mine and another apartment.

Two of the occupiers have cats and I have terrier, the third neighbour has no pets. I have no issue with my same hall neighbours cat, as when it's being moved in and out, it is in a crate.
However, the owner of the other cat that lives in the first hallway off the entrance, allows it to roam freely and come and go but they don't have a cat flap. When the cat gets back to the apartment block, the downstairs door to outside is often left open. (I think the owners of the cat that roams, may have tampered with the magnet to prevent it from being trapped outside. So when anyone arrives home, they will find the cat sitting at the top of the stairs waiting for the door to the first hallway to open. The neighbours will let it in to the hallway and there it sits, trapped, waiting for its owners to get up and let it into the apartment.

The issue I have is that previously my dog and the cat have met on the stairs, I continued past the cat and kept my dog on as tight a leash as humanly possible and on the opposite side to where the cat was sitting. My dog still managed to stretch across and get into the cats personal space. The cat lashed out and went straight for my dogs eye, giving her a nasty scrape on her inside bottom, how she missed her eye is pure luck.

As you can imagine, now every time I leave my apartment, I have to check is the bloody cat sitting in wait. If she is there, I have to go opening doors and shooing her downstairs, ok not a huge deal.

The problem I have is that now every time we go out, my dog gets SUPER stressed out barking and basically going mad on the end of the leash and will not listen to me even though she is other wise obedient. This goes off the rich tar scale if the cat has been there in the past few mins as I guess the smell is lingering. It is causing both myself and my dog a huge amount of stress and I am also embarrassed in front of the neighbours who think my dog is totally out of control (which she is, albeit just around this cat). She is moved in and out at least four times a day as my dog come to work with me and also gets taken out for a walk in the evening time.

Does anyone have any suggestions what I might do to regain control of her in this particular situation? I have tried tasty treats like pieces of chicken but she has no heed of them. Tried asking her sit for a treat before I open each of the doors which she does but she can't contain herself vocally and is trembling with pent up stress when in that environment.
The best method seems to be for me to stay relaxed and just get in and out as quickly and calmly as possible, which seems to go well until we meet or smell the bloody cat again and were back to square one...

Pumpkinseeds

I think you need to have a word with the cats owners. Not antagonistic, just put the emphasis on the safety of their cat and say that you're concerned for their cats safety if the dog gets at it after the incident that's already happened. The balls in their court then.

Bendihorse

Thanks Pumpkinseeds... Their cat isn't in danger as I ALWAYS have the dog on a leash. The cat is never stressed as I try my utmost to make sure they never actually see each other, just the dog that gets totally wound up when it smells that it's been in the vicinity. It's owners are aware of the situation and he just says 'oh my cat always checks the hallway before it leaves because of the dog' and he said 'we need to try and make them friends' I said 'I think it's too late for that!'... All the while, I'm in a sweat with a crazed dog on the end of a leash! He knows the cat took a swipe at the dog and hurt her too.

Even when i get her into the car, she's getting wound up trying to see if the dog is in the carpark, climbing up the back window and whimpering... When I'm coming home from work and put on indicator to turn in she starts again, whimpering/barking and climbing in anticipation of seeing it.

I dread leaving the house with the dog at this stage I think I'm going to have to move as there probably isn't any real solution to this.

Pumpkinseeds

Bendihorse wrote: »

Thanks Pumpkinseeds... Their cat isn't in danger as I ALWAYS have the dog on a leash. The cat is never stressed as I try my utmost to make sure they never actually see each other, just the dog that gets totally wound up when it smells that it's been in the vicinity. It's owners are aware of the situation and he just says 'oh my cat always checks the hallway before it leaves because of the dog' and he said 'we need to try and make them friends' I said 'I think it's too late for that!'... All the while, I'm in a sweat with a crazed dog on the end of a leash! He knows the cat took a swipe at the dog and hurt her too.

Even when i get her into the car, she's getting wound up trying to see if the dog is in the carpark, climbing up the back window and whimpering... When I'm coming home from work and put on indicator to turn in she starts again, whimpering/barking and climbing in anticipation of seeing it.

I dread leaving the house with the dog at this stage I think I'm going to have to move as there probably isn't any real solution to this.

Sounds like they're being a bit thick about it really. The only other thing I could suggest is that you talk to them again and see if they could keep the cat in at the times you take your dog out. Surely it's not too much to ask of them. Nothing you or they can do to stop your dog picking up the scent of the cat, unfortunately. Maybe somebody else will give you better advice.:)

peasant

I don't normally advocate picking up dogs ...but have you tried carrying your terrier through the "dangerous area"?

Junkyard Tom

Bendihorse

Thanks everyone, it's a toughie.

Have tried picking her up Peasant but she still whimpers and yelps when I'm opening the doors to go out and she's a Kerry Blue so not a small terrier like you might be picturing. When I take her out for toilet breaks she's so busy checking for the cat she ignores my cue to 'go pee' or 'go poop'.

If we don't encounter the cat for a few days things do start to settle. I really have to assume the alpha role with her and make her stand down, which works if there's no strong scent, but if we meet the cat or if i have had to shoo it away just before I go out, then we go right back to square one.

The neighbour doesn't really care and sees it as my problem. The other neighbours are always looking at me like I'm even more bonkers than my dog when she's kicking off, it's fairly embarrassing trying to explain myself that she's only like that because of the cat.

She is only a young dog, a year old... Is it possible she would get better as she matures or might it get worse?

Junkyard Tom

This is a totally 'ungoogled' suggestion but if you kept some cat treats in your pocket and gave them to both pets when they encountered each other would they begin to associate meeting with pleasure?

Springwell

If its the smell that sets her off what about putting some doggy cologne thé stuff on her before she goes out which might override the cat smell? Or an auto air freshner in the stair well?

DBB

Bendihorse wrote: »

I really have to assume the alpha role with her and make her stand down, which works if there's no strong scent, but if we meet the cat or if i have had to shoo it away just before I go out, then we go right back to square one.

Assuming an alpha role will never work, because it has been overwhelmingly shown that dogs have absolutely no clue what you're trying to do when you assume an alpha role: neither they nor wolves live their lives as part of a dominance hierarchy, so it is all pretty meaningless to them, and potentially harmful as the alpha techniques tend to invoke a fair bit of physical punishment.
Asking a Kerry Blue (that has not been carefully raised with cats) not to react to a cat is a bit like asking them not to breathe! They're such great dogs, but the predatory drive is one of their major downfalls... as you've found out
You've got a lot of work on your hands to deal with this in a way that your dog actually understands, and explaining it all here is a bit beyond the scope of a discussion forum.. would you think about getting the help of a good behaviourist? Depending on where you are, we should be able to recommend someone, and it would be a much cheaper option than moving out!

dr.fuzzenstein

Bendihorse wrote: »

Thanks everyone, it's a toughie.

Have tried picking her up Peasant but she still whimpers and yelps when I'm opening the doors to go out and she's a Kerry Blue so not a small terrier like you might be picturing. When I take her out for toilet breaks she's so busy checking for the cat she ignores my cue to 'go pee' or 'go poop'.

If we don't encounter the cat for a few days things do start to settle. I really have to assume the alpha role with her and make her stand down, which works if there's no strong scent, but if we meet the cat or if i have had to shoo it away just before I go out, then we go right back to square one.

The neighbour doesn't really care and sees it as my problem. The other neighbours are always looking at me like I'm even more bonkers than my dog when she's kicking off, it's fairly embarrassing trying to explain myself that she's only like that because of the cat.

She is only a young dog, a year old... Is it possible she would get better as she matures or might it get worse?

She should definitely get better. My own dog had a really bad relationship with the neighbour's terrier (OK, not a cat, but same size) and the two would nearly always start to fight if you weren't careful.
I could only run or cycle past his house at high speed and hope I'd make it past before the dog would twig it.
With a lot of pulling (not violently yanking, of course) at the lead and telling him to move along, it got better over time, there were no more incidents.
As for the alpha thing (whatever that is), well it helps if you are cool, strong and in charge. You tell the dog what to do, not the other way round. If you remain calm, it's half the battle 99% of the time. The other time you will find yourself diving into a dogfight and separating them. It will sometimes take a dog years to calm down, 1 year is very young and giddy.
I wouldn't move because of a cat. I'm just saying the above in case the situation does not resolve itself, but I think it should be possible to deal with it.
The most important thing is getting the dog used to it. It might take some time. Showing stress or panic and mollycoddling the dog will only make it worse. In an uncertain situation the dog does look to you or at least will pick up your emotional vibes.

Bendihorse

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.

I had made the time to go to a training class, but unfortunately the trainer had a heart attack after the first one (not our fault!!) so obviously they didn't proceed.

When I say Alpha technique i guess i mean taking charge of the situation. I usually stop and walk towards her and make her put her attention on me again, but its next to impossible.

I understand how willful the breed is and the strong instinct to chase. She's such a great dog and every day i have her i love her more. I have spent a lot of time working on socialising her with other dogs and she is great with them now, but this cat thing came up out of nowhere when i wasn't expecting it, after the unfortunate incident on the stairs.

DBB, If you could recommend a behavioural specialist around the roscommon, athlone, longford or even galway mayo i would definitely make the effort to go with a view to understanding her better.

dr.fuzzenstein

I have to admit, the sheepdog does listen better than the terriers.
They tend to fly off the handle and go off like a rocket. Very hard to catch their attention.

DBB

Jayney... I'm glad that you clarified that the trainer's heart attack was not connected to you I hope he/she is okay now!
Classes are great for general obedience, but just can't deal with individual, environment-centred problems such as the one you're having there. You're better off getting a behaviourist to come to you, and deal with the problem at your home, in your environment.
The northern midlands are pretty poorly served in terms of behaviourists at the moment, but there are two girls in Galway with good behavioural credentials. One is Tara Nic Dhiarmada, who you'll find if you google (she's connected with a rescue group, and we're not allowed link to rescue groups here!), and the other is Svenja Gornik of www.schoolofdog.ie
I really wish you all the best with her, your words about having to love her more each day are very heartwarming, it sounds like you have a great relationship with her

sillysmiles

Have you tried, or would it make sense to try, sitting in the hallway some evening, once the cat is inside but when the hallway still smells of cat and not try to move you dog along but to let her explore and get used to the smell and then train her to "leave" the smell. I imagine it would take a lot of time but it might desensitise your dog to the smell??

Bendihorse

Thanks for replying Sillysmiles, this is something I could try but I have no idea what time or when the cat will be around so it's almost impossible to plan for something like this...

Does anyone think it might be possible to desensitize her by having a cat around myself? I've often thought I would like a cat and if it might help her with her issues then I would definitely give it a go... Maybe if she was introduced to a kitten in a very controlled environment and see how it would go from there?

kathleen37

Why don't you befriend the cat, then once the two of you are friendly, introduce the cat to your dog?

My experience with my two dogs and our cats; the dogs weren't generally bothered at all by cat, just *some* of the cats. Feeling was mutual, so I think that even if you got your own cat, it wouldn't necessarily improve the situation with the neighbours cat.

Good luck!

Bendihorse

Yea I guessed that might be the case Kathleen, I think I would risk getting injured by the cat if I were to try and introduce it to my dog.

kathleen37

I would actually be more concerned about the dog being injured by the cat, seriously.

I was just thinking if you could pet the cat when you were on your own, so it was used to you, and then if it wanted to, let the cat follow you into your apartment (door always open so the cat could exit on it's own - you'd also need to be careful not to upset the cat's owner - with our cats, if they want to visit the neighbours I'm fine with that. I wouldn't be fine if the neighbours were taking the cat in though and feeding it) so I'm not meaning picking the cat up and bringing it in at all, but letting it come in if it wanted, and then you holding the dog and letting them see each other etc. Small steps.

It wouldn't be a quick job, but might be worth trying. Could be the cat has absolutely no interest, in which case you would know pretty quickly.

Good luck whatever you decide!!

(sorry, I reread your post - yes - you getting injured - well, shouldn't be risk of that if you don't pick the cat up. Let it follow you about. You could try getting a packet of Dreamies and trying it with the odd one of those, they are like crack to our cats, but again, please don't feed the cat - an occasional treat shouldn't harm, and I really mean one or two - no more)

Knine

kathleen37 wrote: »

I would actually be more concerned about the dog being injured by the cat, seriously.

I was just thinking if you could pet the cat when you were on your own, so it was used to you, and then if it wanted to, let the cat follow you into your apartment (door always open so the cat could exit on it's own - you'd also need to be careful not to upset the cat's owner - with our cats, if they want to visit the neighbours I'm fine with that. I wouldn't be fine if the neighbours were taking the cat in though and feeding it) so I'm not meaning picking the cat up and bringing it in at all, but letting it come in if it wanted, and then you holding the dog and letting them see each other etc. Small steps.

It wouldn't be a quick job, but might be worth trying. Could be the cat has absolutely no interest, in which case you would know pretty quickly.

Good luck whatever you decide!!

(sorry, I reread your post - yes - you getting injured - well, shouldn't be risk of that if you don't pick the cat up. Let it follow you about. You could try getting a packet of Dreamies and trying it with the odd one of those, they are like crack to our cats, but again, please don't feed the cat - an occasional treat shouldn't harm, and I really mean one or two - no more)

Seriously don't try this. I believe the dog in question is a Kerry Blue. They have a very high prey drive. Friends of mine breed & show them. They have even been known to kill cats they have lived with for years. Many terrier breeds see cats as prey. The best way the op can deal with this is with professional help or avoiding any confrontation with the cat.

the_syco

Bendihorse wrote: »

The neighbour doesn't really care and sees it as my problem.

Get a small handheld water pistol, and squirt the cat (aim at it's main body, not the head) when you see it if you have your dog with you, so it associates you plus dog = squirt of water.

The issue is the cat being left to wander. If your dog had being left to wander, and had attacked the neighbours cat, they'd be screaming bloody murder now. See the cat, squirt the cat, cat moves, walk past cat spot, give dog a treat if it doesn't go mental.