How many slave deaths for the Qatar World Cup can Fifa put up with?

JohnDaniels

How many slave deaths for the Qatar World Cup can Fifa put up with?
Marina Hyde

Clearly there must be a magic number of slave deaths in the world’s richest country that would render the Qatar World Cup a moral and political no-no. But what is that number? What is the ballpark figure where deaths in the construction of ballparks become unacceptable?

The question is not believed to be keeping Sepp Blatter awake at night. Something tells me the Fifa president sleeps the bewilderingly untroubled sleep that only a certain stripe of Western leader enjoys. (Do recall that Tony Blair actually had to be woken up to be told the bombing of Baghdad he’d co-ordered was soon to begin.)

................

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/may/20/slave-deaths-qatar-world-cup-2022-fifa

the_monkey

Disgusting .... people should boycott that WC.

Aren't Barca in bed with those Qatar lads ??

ah yeah ... no surprise...

Muff_Daddy

Just think, if the World Cup is moved from Qatar (and it should never have been awarded to them in the first place) how many people will have died in vain?

LuckyLloyd

The World Cup isn't getting moved because the world footballing associations, fans, media, sponsors and players don't have the balls to boycott it.

All the bellyaching in the world won't change that fact. Time to accept it.

Pudsy33

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Just think, if the World Cup is moved from Qatar (and it should never have been awarded to them in the first place) how many people will have died in vain?

Thousands, but it might save thousands more. I don't think it'll be much consolation to the families of the dead that the World Cup will go ahead.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The World Cup isn't getting moved because the world footballing associations, fans, media, sponsors and players don't have the balls to boycott it.

All the bellyaching in the world won't change that fact. Time to accept it.

You're a fan. You could try growing a set of balls yourself, boycott the tournament and any sponsors associated with it, sign a petition, send a letter, etc. There'll be plenty of these things going on in the years to leading up to the event.

Shanotheslayer

the_monkey wrote: »

Disgusting .... people should boycott that WC.

Aren't Barca in bed with those Qatar lads ??

ah yeah ... no surprise...

I Don't even.....

Polo_Mint

the_monkey wrote: »

Disgusting .... people should boycott that WC.

Aren't Barca in bed with those Qatar lads ??

ah yeah ... no surprise...

GavRedKing

Pro. F wrote: »

You're a fan. You could try growing a set of balls yourself, boycott the tournament and any sponsors associated with it, sign a petition, send a letter, etc. There'll be plenty of these things going on in the years to leading up to the event.

By then it will be too late, when FIFA decided it was going to Qatar, for strictly footballing reasons ($$$$$$$$$$) this WC was always going to be doomed.

Its one of the biggest joke decisions made by a complete joke of an organisation to date and that takes some doing.

Barring a withdrawal and refusal to participate from some of the biggest FA's, fans moaning and signing petitions will do feck all to stop the cash cow rolling into Qatar.

glued

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The World Cup isn't getting moved because the world footballing associations, fans, media, sponsors and players don't have the balls to boycott it.

All the bellyaching in the world won't change that fact. Time to accept it.

So just give up eh?

Pro. F

GavRedKing wrote: »

By then it will be too late, when FIFA decided it was going to Qatar, for strictly footballing reasons ($$$$$$$$$$) this WC was always going to be doomed.

Its one of the biggest joke decisions made by a complete joke of an organisation to date and that takes some doing.

Barring a withdrawal and refusal to participate from some of the biggest FA's, fans moaning and signing petitions will do feck all to stop the cash cow rolling into Qatar.

Fans putting pressure on sponsors and FAs might be the push that is needed to make them exert their influence. Doing nothing will definitely result in nothing changing.

Why are you using the derisive term "moaning" to describe people giving out about this slavery? Why did you not use a less loaded, more accurate, term like "complaining" or "protesting"?

The_Kew_Tour

Pro is spot on here.

Its one thing to moan about the odd fight or song from time to time, but when lives are being lost then it really is something more then moaning.

citytillidie

Places with the next 2 World Cups are a joke to be honest.

Shanotheslayer

I reckon most fans can't be arsed protesting etc etc.

greendom

I really hope this WC doesn't happen - even if it means foregoing one altogether.

But if the discovery of the corruption that led to it being awarded in the first place and the piling up of construction deaths can't stop it I'm not sure what can ?

wonga77

How many died in the leadup to the last world cup in Brazil?

Muff_Daddy

wonga77 wrote: »

How many died in the leadup to the last world cup in Brazil?

8 was the last reported number
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/09/world-cup-2014-eighth-construction-worker-killed-in-brazil

Qatar's death toll is in the hundreds. And rising.

LuckyLloyd

glued wrote: »

So just give up eh?

Are you ready to:

- not attend a single Ireland match related to qualifying / tournament proper for WC 2018;
- not watch a single match related to qualifying or tournament proper for WC 2018;
- not consume a single piece of media related to WC 2018;
- boycott any products made by sponsors of WC 2018;

And then start the process over if you've done that and there is STILL no movement for the Qatar tournament when 2022 qualification begins.

??

Didn't think so, but by all means sign a Facebook petition or tut tut about how awful it is.

wonga77

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

8 was the last reported number
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/09/world-cup-2014-eighth-construction-worker-killed-in-brazil

Qatar's death toll is in the hundreds. And rising.

For some strange reason I thought the death toll in Brazil was well in the hundreds too. Awarding the wc to Qatar has been a disaster from day 1 but untill theres wholesale changes at the top table in fifa, stunts like this will still continue, its all about the money for them

pmasterson95

The quality of the play and player safety will be affected in Qatar aswell. The matches wont be as good.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Are you ready to:

- not attend a single Ireland match related to qualifying / tournament proper for WC 2018;
- not watch a single match related to qualifying or tournament proper for WC 2018;
- not consume a single piece of media related to WC 2018;
- boycott any products made by sponsors of WC 2018;

And then start the process over if you've done that and there is STILL no movement for the Qatar tournament when 2022 qualification begins.

??

Didn't think so, but by all means sign a Facebook petition or tut tut about how awful it is.

We're against the hosting of the 2022 WC, not the hosting of the qualifiers, not the hosting of the 2018 WC and not the hosting of those qualifiers. Boycotting other events would only dilute the message and the movement.

Here's a question, are you for or against Qatar hosting the World Cup? Do you think that their use of slave labour should see the WC hosting taken away from them?

Zebra3

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Just think, if the World Cup is moved from Qatar (and it should never have been awarded to them in the first place) how many people will have died in vain?

Yeah, it should definitely go ahead in Qatar as a tribute to those that have died (so far). :rolleyes:

Muff_Daddy

Zebra3 wrote: »

Yeah, it should definitely go ahead in Qatar as a tribute to those that have died (so far). :rolleyes:

Did I say it should?

Condescending emoticon*

~Rebel~

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Just think, if the World Cup is moved from Qatar (and it should never have been awarded to them in the first place) how many people will have died in vain?

They've obviously died in vain regardless. A football tournament isn't a reason to die.

Just a little Samba

the_monkey wrote: »

Disgusting .... people should boycott that WC.

Aren't Barca in bed with those Qatar lads ??

ah yeah ... no surprise...

More than a club indeed.

anncoates

Logical conclusion to the state of affairs where most football fans don't give a rats ass about any of the negative community effects of top level football as long as the top 'product' is there.

niallo27

Most of the big companies sponsoring the World Cup use slave labour themselves. Shouldn't we be boycotting them already. Money talks and only teams pulling out would affect the hosting and I mean big teams pulling out.

Dempsey

The problem is that people would have to focus their anger, energy & effort on boycotting so many sponsors, matches etc to make a dent in the thinking of sponsors, FA's, FIFA. Easy to say you'll do it in theory but in practice, its not so easy.

I dont think the WC will be taken off Qatar and taking the WC off Qatar will solve fcuk all happening in Qatar, it only will remove it from the media focus. People have been dying in that country due to unsafe work practices for long before now and the kafala is equally a brutal measure. TBH, there is more to be gained for those living and working in Qatar by keeping the World Cup there and using it as a tool for meaningful change to the culture & laws in that country.

~Rebel~

Dempsey wrote: »

The problem is that people would have to focus their anger, energy & effort on boycotting so many sponsors, matches etc to make a dent in the thinking of sponsors, FA's, FIFA. Easy to say you'll do it in theory but in practice, its not so easy.

I dont think the WC will be taken off Qatar and taking the WC off Qatar will solve fcuk all happening in Qatar, it only will remove it from the media focus. People have been dying in that country due to unsafe work practices for long before now and the kafala is equally a brutal measure. TBH, there is more to be gained for those living and working in Qatar by keeping the World Cup there and using it as a tool for meaningful change to the culture & laws in that country.

Indeed - the best result would probably be from an actual genuine threat to pull out if things don't improve swiftly with a set list of conditions, like returning all passports to employees, decent living conditions, fair pay etc.

If they agree, and meet these conditions under regular inspections, they keep the world cup. If they don't, they lose it.

Captain Havoc

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Indeed - the best result would probably be from an actual genuine threat to pull out if things don't improve swiftly with a set list of conditions, like returning all passports to employees, decent living conditions, fair pay etc.

If they agree, and meet these conditions under regular inspections, they keep the world cup. If they don't, they lose it.

Who's going to inspect things, FIFA?

LuckyLloyd

Pro. F wrote: »

We're against the hosting of the 2022 WC, not the hosting of the qualifiers, not the hosting of the 2018 WC and not the hosting of those qualifiers. Boycotting other events would only dilute the message and the movement.

Here's a question, are you for or against Qatar hosting the World Cup? Do you think that their use of slave labour should see the WC hosting taken away from them?

Against
Yes

And what the **** else would anyone think? The only difference between me and you is that our answers to the question, 'do you believe anything short of significant financial loss for FIFA and its Sponsors in advance of the 2018 tournament will cause the World Cup to be taken from Qatar and, as such, is complaining utterly pointless?' are different.

dan1895

Haven't a couple of sponsors pulled out or at least threatened to pull out already?

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Against
Yes

And what the **** else would anyone think? The only difference between me and you is that our answers to the question, 'do you believe anything short of significant financial loss for FIFA and its Sponsors in advance of the 2018 tournament will cause the World Cup to be taken from Qatar and, as such, is complaining utterly pointless?' are different.

Fair enough. I remembered that I've read you arguing for sending the WC to some controversial countries on the grounds of limited options outside Europe - which is a reasonable stance itself - but I couldn't remember if you extended that argument to Qatar or not.

dfx-

Dempsey wrote: »

I dont think the WC will be taken off Qatar and taking the WC off Qatar will solve fcuk all happening in Qatar, it only will remove it from the media focus. People have been dying in that country due to unsafe work practices for long before now and the kafala is equally a brutal measure. TBH, there is more to be gained for those living and working in Qatar by keeping the World Cup there and using it as a tool for meaningful change to the culture & laws in that country.

I would tend to agree very strongly on this point. FIFA holding the government to ransom over changing laws, rather than denying the tournament, is the way to go. I'm very sure FIFA could do so if they wanted, they set up their own court in Brazil as part of the tournament being awarded and could superimpose their rules upon local law with alcohol consumption.

Just moving it somewhere else is utterly pointless to those who will die there due to unsafe working practices, if not building a shiny stadium, it'll be a mundane office tower instead.

Pro. F wrote: »

Fans putting pressure on sponsors and FAs might be the push that is needed to make them exert their influence. Doing nothing will definitely result in nothing changing.

Doesn't FIFA already have a 'rainy day' stash of billions and I'm sure plenty of shady corporations would be happy to take the place of the current sponsors if given the chance. I'm not sure they need to be that fussed over sponsors.

Player boycott would make the most difference. Much harder to sell that World Cup but even harder to do that so far out from the tournament, given the stars of the tournament are likely only teenagers now.

Pro. F

dfx- wrote: »

Doesn't FIFA already have a 'rainy day' stash of billions and I'm sure plenty of shady corporations would be happy to take the place of the current sponsors if given the chance. I'm not sure they need to be that fussed over sponsors.

Player boycott would make the most difference. Much harder to sell that World Cup but even harder to do that so far out from the tournament, given the stars of the tournament are likely only teenagers now.

Yeah, player, team or region boycotts would be the most effective. Sponsors pulling out would be great for building momentum though.

dfx- wrote: »

I would tend to agree very strongly on this point. FIFA holding the government to ransom over changing laws, rather than denying the tournament, is the way to go. I'm very sure FIFA could do so if they wanted, they set up their own court in Brazil as part of the tournament being awarded and could superimpose their rules upon local law with alcohol consumption.

Just moving it somewhere else is utterly pointless to those who will die there due to unsafe working practices, if not building a shiny stadium, it'll be a mundane office tower instead.

I was going to say this. FIFA has huge leverage here. If they could be persuaded to use that to pressure Qatar into reform that would probably be the best result all round.