leaving child in car

whats_my_name

thereitisgone wrote: »

No just the over protection vibe in this thread, kids nearly all walking to and from school here from the age of seven same as twenty years ago, what big change has happened in Ireland that has not happened here in Finland that makes it dangerous to walk to school in ireland

Well I know with my own family, 3 of us walked about a mile from our bus stop every evening. A few years later my younger sister was made wait at the bus stop to be collected purely because she was on her own & as the volume of traffic probably doubled from when I walked it, especially with lorries.

I think the whole thing has gone a bit too OTT this last few years. A social worker friend of mine told me it would be frowned upon leaving a child of up until 15 in the house on their own. When I was 12 I was minding a 10, 8 year old & a 4 month old for a few hours on a Saturday night!!

whats_my_name

Sligo1 wrote: »

Firstly to note... Finland and a couple other Scandinavian countries have been ranked in the top 10 safest countries in the world. Ireland has not!!! Therefore, I would possibly feel safer in these countries than in Ireland in regards to crime activities etc etc...

But within Ireland you have many many safe communities. It's mostly cities & a few major towns that have high crime rates therefore making that data skewed.

bobbyss

Yes, she did do the right thing. Nothing happened and she went on her way. How many of us have left child in car while filling up car with petrol, or popping into shop to get some milk? If we all had her patience we would all be better off.

Sligo1

whats_my_name wrote: »

But within Ireland you have many many safe communities. It's mostly cities & a few major towns that have high crime rates therefore making that data skewed.

Yes however, the larger cities in Ireland are obviously where the majority of people live... So that's obviously where the majority of people are probably being more vigilant or protective of their children. Also, Finland and other scandinavian countries also have some big cities... This still doesn't alter the fact that these countries are still ranked safer than Ireland....

Sligo1

whats_my_name wrote: »

When I was 12 I was minding a 10, 8 year old & a 4 month old for a few hours on a Saturday night!!

I would never in a million years leave a 12 year old minding a 4 month old. That is completely and utterly irresponsible. And that's not about different times.

Ms2011

I have a 6 week old & a 3 year old. When I drop my 3 yr old to Montessori I always bring to 6 week old in with me. It's a pain in the backside, she weighs a tonne & especially this last week as she has a cold & I've hated having to drag her out on the car on the cold, damp mornings but my son's class is through a wooden door & I wouldn't be able to see her so I wouldn't take the risk.
That said I do leave them in the car when paying for petrol or putting back the shopping trolley as they are always in my eye line & it's never for more than a minute or two.
All you can do as a parent is weigh up the precieved risks & act accordingly.

whats_my_name

Sligo1 wrote: »

I would never in a million years leave a 12 year old minding a 4 month old. That is completely and utterly irresponsible. And that's not about different times.

Well it was the done thing back then in my locality anyway, I used to babysit for many families from 12 upwards.

Sligo1

whats_my_name wrote: »

Well it was the done thing back then in my locality anyway, I used to babysit for many families from 12 upwards.

Not in my locality. At the age of 24 my mum and dad had a 3yo, 2yo and 1yo. I came 9 years later. We all lived in New Zealand then( 30 odd years ago). New Zealand is ranked the safest country in the world. However, no one there that I know of or that my parents knew left their tiny babies with a pre teen. And I'd say our locality was probably safer than most localities in Ireland. It just wasn't the done thing.

Actual question for you... If you had a 4 month old baby now yourself... Would you leave him/her with a 12 year old for a couple hours? Genuine question here. I know it's probably illegal now. But if it wasn't...

fro9etb8j5qsl2

Sligo1 wrote: »

Actual question for you... If you had a 4 month old baby now yourself... Would you leave him/her with a 12 year old for a couple hours? Genuine question here. I know it's probably illegal now. But if it wasn't...

When I was 12 I used to babysit a 1 year old and when her baby sister arrived 2 years later, I would babysit both of them. Of course I thought nothing of it myself at the time, in my mind I was getting money, they had cable TV and it was handy work but omg the sheer thought of someone so young looking after my own kids now makes me balk :eek::eek::eek: I was a fairly mature responsible teenager but looking back now, if anything at all had happened I wouldn't have had a notion what to do.

Sligo1

That's just mental altogether. Perhaps people have just wised up here in more recent times them. I definitely wouldn't call that being overvigilant tho. I'd call it being responsible. It just doesn't bare thinking about does it...

kandr10

I would do what that mother did too. I always take my daughter out when I'm paying for petrol etc. it's one thing I am over protective about. Besides safety, she screams when I get out of the car and she can't see me if I'm getting things out of the boot or whatever so I wouldn't want to leave her distressed. Another is how she sleeps (no pillow, quilt etc), another is that I don't put bobbins in her hair cos she could choke on them.

They're little things that I realise not every parent is overly concerned about but I'm sure other people have concerns I wouldn't too. I don't think my perceived being over protective makes me a bad parent or a better parent than someone who doesn't make those choices.

Is the idea behind criticising parents who leave their kids in the car that they're going to somehow make irrational choices throughout the child's life that restrict their development? It's a big leap if so!

tipparetops

Hysteria seems to be ingrained in some parents on this thread.

It is sad that some parents feel that Ireland is so dangerous that they cannot leave their child alone in a car for 90 seconds.
Or they fear their child might choke on something if left alone in a car for 90 seconds.

kandr10

tipparetops wrote: »

Hysteria seems to be ingrained in some parents on this thread.

It is sad that some parents feel that Ireland is so dangerous that they cannot leave their child alone in a car for 90 seconds.
Or they fear their child might choke on something if left alone in a car for 90 seconds.

See that's my point exactly. It's not hysteria. It has no effect on anyone other than a mild inconvenience to the parent so why label it as such? no way it would take 90 secs anyway

tipparetops

kandr10 wrote: »

See that's my point exactly. It's not hysteria. It has no effect on anyone other than a mild inconvenience to the parent so why label it as such? no way it would take 90 secs anyway

It is hysteria to think that in Ireland you cannot leave your child in a car alone.
It is hysteria to think your child will choke on something if in a car alone.

I have seen parents position their rear view mirror on their child in the back seat, for just in case.

Normal people who have children and than suddenly acting like mental cases.

mocha please!

tipparetops wrote: »

It is hysteria to think that in Ireland you cannot leave your child in a car alone.
It is hysteria to think your child will choke on something if in a car alone.

I have seen parents position their rear view mirror on their child in the back seat, for just in case.

Normal people who have children and than suddenly acting like mental cases.

OK positioning the rear view mirror on the child is just stupid and certainly NOT in the best interests of the child's safety!

The other things, though, I don't consider hysteria. I mean, I don't worry about my child choking on anything because there's no reason there'd be any choking hazards within his reach. And I know the odds of something happening the car being stolen with him in it are practically non-existent. But say if he vomited or something ... not an uncommon occurrence, especially when he had reflux when he was younger ... I'd hate to think of him there alone and upset for any period of time. It's just handier to bring him with me; I'm sure he'd be perfectly fine if I didn't, but I prefer to bring him for peace of mind.

And as he gets older and more mobile, I'll only be more likely to bring him with me! We were often left for long periods alone in the car as kids, I clearly remember playing with things like the handbrake and cigarette lighter. No harm ever came to us, but that was just luck!

pwurple

mocha please! wrote: »

OK positioning the rear view mirror on the child is just stupid and certainly NOT in the best interests of the child's safety!

Eh... Why?
I had a small mirror on the baby seat pointed at the center rear view so i could see the baby in the car. She had reflux. Threw up randomly and very often started choking on it. But even if she didn't what's wrong with keeping an eye on them? Handy to see if they have gone for a nap.

I also drive a van half the time. It doesn't even have a centerplaced rear view mirror... Because it would be looking straight at a bulkhead. No van or truck driver has a central rearview mirror.

Tell me again how we're stupid?

mocha please!

pwurple wrote: »

Eh... Why?
I had a small mirror on the baby seat pointed at the center rear view so i could see the baby in the car. She had reflux. Threw up randomly and very often started choking on it. But even if she didn't what's wrong with keeping an eye on them? Handy to see if they have gone for a nap.

I also drive a van half the time. It doesn't even have a centerplaced rear view mirror... Because it would be looking straight at a bulkhead. No van or truck driver has a central rearview mirror.

Tell me again how we're stupid?

OK fair enough I've never driven a van! And I can see your point.

I'm used to driving a car, and I'm used to depending a lot on using the rear view mirror when making turns etc. I guess it's different if you're used to depending on only the side mirrors, anyways.

I know that when the view out of my rear view mirror is blocked, especially if it's fully blocked, it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable when driving, and extra-cautious in case I'd miss something. But I do get that van drivers must just adapt to that. I'm sure that I would, too, with practice! I've only ever driven without the rear-view mirror view on occasion, and always get a bit of a fright when I glance into it out of habit and can't see what's there!

I had a reflux baby too, I didn't use a mirror for him as I felt it would be too distracting for me when driving! But then I'm a bit of a nervous driver anyways. I always just made sure to have the radio off so I'd hear him if he got sick.

Neyite

tipparetops wrote: »

It is hysteria to think that in Ireland you cannot leave your child in a car alone.
It is hysteria to think your child will choke on something if in a car alone.

I have seen parents position their rear view mirror on their child in the back seat, for just in case.

Normal people who have children and than suddenly acting like mental cases.

You could say the same for all types of hazards where the chances of them harming themselves is miniscule:
It is hysteria to have sharp knives put away in a safe place.
It is hysteria to have a stairgate.
It is hysteria to have water barrels covered on a farm.
It is hysteria to wear a bike helmet.

See where I'm going with this?

Some posters here think using a baby monitor with a sensor mat is hysteria. But for those who have seen the devastation of cot death in their friends or family it gives them the peace of mind to sleep at night. Others think amber beads are the stupidest things ever, a choking hazard, even though to date, there have been no deaths as a result of amber beads.

We do lots of things automatically that reduces the risk of harm to our children. And yes, we did things differently in our day -not necessarily safer. Remember all the water, farm, and fire safety ads in the 80's anyone? In my day we didn't even have rear seat belts, and none of us died. But now not only do we have rear seat belts, but we have car seats for children. Cars were decrepit too. No NCT back then, I vividly remember cars in my neighbourhood held together with twine.

We never had carbon monoxide or smoke detectors or house alarms, or car alarms or any of those things, but they are pretty much standard now. Times change.

So yes, I agree that the risk when leaving a child in a car is tiny. But if it becomes a habit to leave Child 2 in the car safely sleeping while you pop in to get Child 1 from school, its easy to stretch out that 90 seconds until it becomes 5 minutes, or 10 and someday, you get held up for 20- 30 minutes talking to a teacher/ school mum and its that rare 'heat-wave' weather outside. And you come out to find your toddler badly sunburnt.

So, to me, its just one of those many automatic things you do to minimise risk. We all parent differently and labelling a parent hysterical or mental and scoffing at them because they don't do things exactly the way you do reeks of sanctimony.

Actually, with a grand total of two posts in parenting, both of them in this thread, and both of them criticising parents, I wonder if you are even a parent yourself. Or are you one of those non-parent posters who wander in from AH other forums to tell us how to do our job properly and call us names?

cyning

tipparetops wrote: »

Hysteria seems to be ingrained in some parents on this thread.

It is sad that some parents feel that Ireland is so dangerous that they cannot leave their child alone in a car for 90 seconds.
Or they fear their child might choke on something if left alone in a car for 90 seconds.

I had my 8 month old in the highchair one morning: she wasn't eating, hadn't eaten anything yet, and I was taking photos of her... She suddenly keeled over in the highchair not breathing. She went purple. It was without a doubt the scariest most horrible experience of my life. She does have reflux but she made no choking noises, brought nothing up when she came round after I shook her a few times.

If she had been in a car seat while I left her.... Well it doesn't bear thinking about.

So while you might think it's hysteria, believe me when I say anything could happen in 90 seconds. It's not safe to leave a small baby in a car. You never know what might happen.

Dunford

spurious wrote: »

People live terrified lives in today's world, not always with justification, but the 'what if' is not worth it.

exactly. i dont think i could it.

ixus

Woman accidentally locks herself out of car on hottest day of year back in April...

Some logic here is "the odds of anything going wrong are miniscule". Well done, you're correct. But, you're willing to run the risk of something major happening just to save a minute or two in hassle? How does that fit into logic? It's pretty thoughtless.

You also run the risk of being reported to Gardai or Child welfare if seen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3039738/Dramatic-moment-baby-trapped-inside-car-hottest-day-year-saved-police-officer-smashed-window-inside.html

RedPaddyX

I didn't always think like this so can see where OP is coming from, but the way I see it:

How much is your child worth to you? 1000euro? 1million? 100million? I think most parents would say priceless. Now if you had 1million euro in cash would you leave it locked in a car in the open? No, you wouldn't not even for a minute - just in case. Same with your kid.

Neyite

ixus wrote: »

Woman accidentally locks herself out of car on hottest day of year back in April...

Some logic here is "the odds of anything going wrong are miniscule". Well done, you're correct. But, you're willing to run the risk of something major happening just to save a minute or two in hassle? How does that fit into logic? It's pretty thoughtless.

You also run the risk of being reported to Gardai or Child welfare if seen.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3039738/Dramatic-moment-baby-trapped-inside-car-hottest-day-year-saved-police-officer-smashed-window-inside.html

I know its the Daily Fail, but that was a child showing distress at the heat after only 5 minutes in 24 degree weather.

zeffabelli

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Times change????? My kids are 13 and 14, not 50!!!
Advice hasnt changed....people HAVE become more paranoid. And I feel sorry for the kids

But yes, you do as you see fit.....

I totally agree parenting has become more paranoid, and frankly the hyper vigilance is a bit nuts.

The over protectionism is not only filling them with fear of a dangerous world but also installing senses of incompetence.

Seriously if you think your car is going to spontaneously explode, why drive it in the first place.

Cienciano

I'd leave them. What about getting petrol? People here would genuinely bring their kids into the petrol station? Now imagine you have 2 or 3 kids?

Dunford

I also drive a van half the time. It doesn't even have a centerplaced rear view mirror... Because it would be looking straight at a bulkhead. No van or truck driver has a central rearview mirror.

Tell me again how we're stupid? [/quote]

well pointed out.

zeffabelli

cyning wrote: »

I had my 8 month old in the highchair one morning: she wasn't eating, hadn't eaten anything yet, and I was taking photos of her... She suddenly keeled over in the highchair not breathing. She went purple. It was without a doubt the scariest most horrible experience of my life. She does have reflux but she made no choking noises, brought nothing up when she came round after I shook her a few times.

If she had been in a car seat while I left her.... Well it doesn't bear thinking about.

So while you might think it's hysteria, believe me when I say anything could happen in 90 seconds. It's not safe to leave a small baby in a car. You never know what might happen.

By this logic don't take them in the car at all. How are you going to be able to respond if you are behind the wheel and can't pull in somewhere....

Neyite

Cienciano wrote: »

I'd leave them. What about getting petrol? People here would genuinely bring their kids into the petrol station? Now imagine you have 2 or 3 kids?

I dont generally bring the toddler in, but that's because I usually fill up on my way to an evening class for the week, and I don't have the child in the car. Or, the nearest petrol station on my morning commute is after I've done the creche drop off, and near to my work.

Outside of that, if I need to fill up and its just me and the toddler, its usually on the way to grannys, so the most convenient petrol station is actually a 2-pump tiny one, and there is never a queue in the shop, and I'm parked right outside.

I've never conciously chose those garages, they were ones I used before I had the baby. Maybe if I went to busy ones before, I might change to a quieter one afterwards.

zeffabelli

Neyite wrote: »

I dont generally bring the toddler in, but that's because I usually fill up on my way to an evening class for the week, and I don't have the child in the car. Or, the nearest petrol station on my morning commute is after I've done the creche drop off, and near to my work.

Outside of that, if I need to fill up and its just me and the toddler, its usually on the way to grannys, so the most convenient petrol station is actually a 2-pump tiny one, and there is never a queue in the shop, and I'm parked right outside.

I've never conciously chose those garages, they were ones I used before I had the baby. Maybe if I went to busy ones before, I might change to a quieter one afterwards.

I think the assessment has to be contextual. So obviously, when its really hot, NO.

I used to be one of these DONT EVER LEAVE THEM IN THE CAR EVEN FOR TWO SECONDS people. However, one day when my little one was a toddler and I had his friend with him, also a toddler, at a small petrol station, I brought them both in. Holy jesus, it was like trying to catch mercury with the two of them, and frankly I concluded it would have been less risky to leave them in the car with something to play with for two minutes while I paid the guy and left, rather than the risks of knocking down jars from the shelves, stealing sweets, and the 20 minutes it took to get both of them at the same time, and pay the guy.

*We have to be careful, because hyper vigilance can be as dangerous as no vigilance.

Neyite

Trying to catch mercury - I love it!

I do agree, it has to be something you assess - as some have rightly pointed out, including yourself, that juggling multiple toddlers could be more risky. Especially when they see the sweet display

I just feel more comfortable if when leaving children in the car, that they are in my line of sight if I'm paying for something or talking to someone. Not because the car will explode though, mostly because he's gotten awfully upset if he wakes and cant see me, and takes him ages to calm down. So if its a quiet garage or shop and I can see the car (and he can see me) then grand. If its out of sight, its less hassle for me in the long run to bring him in.

Several kids though? It'd be a different story I'm sure. I'd have to get back to you on that!