Ulster Bank League 2015-2016 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

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Anybody know the dates for the semi final and final?

The Lost Sheep

BDJW wrote: »

Anybody know the dates for the semi final and final?

23rd of April. 8th of May

MrJones2013

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I'd be happy enough to see that :)

Finishing top of the pile in the league phase isn't enough, the play-offs can be cruel but I think 'Tarf are too strong.

I'd say if YM make the final there will be a big crowd at it, they are always very well supported.

The IRFU are probably hoping for a 'Tarf v YM final.

Tarf1234

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Finishing top of the pile in the league phase isn't enough, the play-offs can be cruel but I think 'Tarf are too strong.

I'd say if YM make the final there will be a big crowd at it, they are always very well supported.

The IRFU are probably hoping for a 'Tarf v YM final.

If any club knows the agony of the play offs it's us!

YM v Tarf is the final I'd love to see personally. Have a lot of time for YM as a club, always very 'vocal'. In saying that I also have huge respect for Con.

I'd imagine the IRFU couldn't care less. If they did, they wouldn't put the final on a Sunday!!

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

If any club knows the agony of the play offs it's us!

YM v Tarf is the final I'd love to see personally. Have a lot of time for YM as a club, always very 'vocal'. In saying that I also have huge respect for Con.

I'd imagine the IRFU couldn't care less. If they did, they wouldn't put the final on a Sunday!!

The IRFU playing the final on a Sunday is to combat the final round of pro12 games all being played on the Saturday at 3pm. If you play the AIL final on the Saturday the coverage disappears amidst all the press about those 6 games.
Cookies are my preference amongst the 4 sides that will be in the playoffs

MrJones2013

It's been a pretty exciting season to date and I don't think the playoffs will disappoint.

I was at the Garryowen v YM game last week and there was a big crowd at it which was great to see!

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The IRFU playing the final on a Sunday is to combat the final round of pro12 games all being played on the Saturday at 3pm. If you play the AIL final on the Saturday the coverage disappears amidst all the press about those 6 games.
Cookies are my preference amongst the 4 sides that will be in the playoffs

The grand finale of club rugby forced onto a Sunday. No1 in any of the clubs involved will see it that way. If Tarf, YM or Con get to the final it will cost them money as nowhere near as many people will go back to their clubs and fill the bar. It is a slap in the face of all the hard working people behind the top clubs to force them into a Sunday game. Yet not surprising from the IRFU.

But you'll tell me they have our best interests at heart?

Tarf1234

MrJones2013 wrote: »

It's been a pretty exciting season to date and I don't think the playoffs will disappoint.

I was at the Garryowen v YM game last week and there was a big crowd at it which was great to see!

Been very up and down. If Garryowen had won last week UCD may have missed out on the playoffs having been miles clear at one stage. The only disappointment is seeing Hinch do so poorly. Other then that I think it's been one of the better seasons of late. The play offs returning was absolutely essential.

MrJones2013

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The IRFU playing the final on a Sunday is to combat the final round of pro12 games all being played on the Saturday at 3pm. If you play the AIL final on the Saturday the coverage disappears amidst all the press about those 6 games.
Cookies are my preference amongst the 4 sides that will be in the playoffs

I don't think there will be much coverage regardless of which day it is on. The newspaper coverage on the Sunday will, no doubt, be dominated by the reports of the last round of PRO12 games, the AIL final will get a token mention.

Tarf1234 wrote: »

The grand finale of club rugby forced onto a Sunday. No1 in any of the clubs involved will see it that way. If Tarf, YM or Con get to the final it will cost them money as nowhere near as many people will go back to their clubs and fill the bar. It is a slap in the face of all the hard working people behind the top clubs to force them into a Sunday game. Yet not surprising from the IRFU.

But you'll tell me they have our best interests at heart?

Careful now, you cannot be questioning the IRFU's commitment to the club game

Tarf1234

MrJones2013 wrote: »

I don't think there will be much coverage regardless of which day it is on. The newspaper coverage on the Sunday will, no doubt, be dominated by the reports of the last round of PRO12 games, the AIL final will get a token mention.



Careful now, you cannot be questioning the IRFU's commitment to the club game

But we will get the millions tuning into RTE to watch it... Can't deny RTE the big crowd they'll get for it.

Ooops, I didn't mean to question them. The leader is good the leader is great. All they are interested in is the club game. The professional set up is just an elaborate hoax to support the clubs.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

The grand finale of club rugby forced onto a Sunday. No1 in any of the clubs involved will see it that way. If Tarf, YM or Con get to the final it will cost them money as nowhere near as many people will go back to their clubs and fill the bar. It is a slap in the face of all the hard working people behind the top clubs to force them into a Sunday game. Yet not surprising from the IRFU.

But you'll tell me they have our best interests at heart?

Whats the alternative with the Pro12 league finishing round robin stage on the Saturday afternoon? Would you play it Saturday evening at 5pm or later? That would be fine if its 2 Dublin clubs but does that suit the Cork/Limerick teams who could be in the final. That wouldn't encourage people to go to the game more especially with Leinster and Munster both playing Pro12 at home on the Saturday and both will be playing key games to determine playoff spots.

MrJones2013 wrote: »

I don't think there will be much coverage regardless of which day it is on. The newspaper coverage on the Sunday will, no doubt, be dominated by the reports of the last round of PRO12 games, the AIL final will get a token mention.

Careful now, you cannot be questioning the IRFU's commitment to the club game

So what would you have proposed as an alternative? Play the game on the Saturday and it would be lost amidst all the talk previewing/covering the pro12? Extend the season another week and have it clash with the champions cup final that Saturday.

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Ooops, I didn't mean to question them. The leader is good the leader is great. All they are interested in is the club game. The professional set up is just an elaborate hoax to support the clubs.

:rolleyes:

MrJones2013

My alternative would be just play the final at the regular time on the Saturday and not worry about other competitions, why the sudden change in attitude? They had no problem running games at the same time as internationals in the past. I know the final is different to the regular season games but your claim that the coverage will get lost because of the PRO12 games is irrelevant as there won't be a whole pile of coverage anyway.

Those that care about the club game will prioritise the final ahead of the PRO12 games.

good_afternoon

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

23rd of April. 8th of May

Can you link confirmation of this?

The Lost Sheep

MrJones2013 wrote: »

My alternative would be just play the final at the regular time on the Saturday and not worry about other competitions, why the sudden change in attitude? They had no problem running games at the same time as internationals in the past. I know the final is different to the regular season games but your claim that the coverage will get lost because of the PRO12 games is irrelevant as there won't be a whole pile of coverage anyway.

Those that care about the club game will prioritise the final ahead of the PRO12 games.

But that's crazy. You don't clash with big events especially in your own sport that will take away from your crowd. Just like schools senior cup finals are traditionally played Paddys Day but game isn't played Paddys if Paddys Day has an irish game in 6 Nations.
Comparing league games in the regular season to league final is completely different.

good_afternoon wrote: »

Can you link confirmation of this?

Look on IRFU website under fixtures/results. http://www.irishrugby.ie/club/ulsterbankleagueandcup/fixtures.php?includeref=25150&season=2015-2016&comp=3589&stage=D1AF

Sicky

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But that's crazy. You don't clash with big events especially in your own sport that will take away from your crowd. Just like schools senior cup finals are traditionally played Paddys Day but game isn't played Paddys if Paddys Day has an irish game in 6 Nations.
Comparing league games in the regular season to league final is completely different.
]

Comparing the sheepskin wearing, prawn sandwich eating, RO'CK types that fly out to Paris or Twickers on a weekend jolly to genuine Club rugby fans is completely different.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

The grand finale of club rugby forced onto a Sunday. No1 in any of the clubs involved will see it that way. If Tarf, YM or Con get to the final it will cost them money as nowhere near as many people will go back to their clubs and fill the bar. It is a slap in the face of all the hard working people behind the top clubs to force them into a Sunday game. Yet not surprising from the IRFU.

But you'll tell me they have our best interests at heart?

rand finale being moved to counter lack of coverage it would get on a Saturday if played then. Which would you prefer?
You whinge about the coverage the league gets. You whinge about access to players. You whinge about everything. Why not do something about it?
Yeah the IRFU is doing everything wrong so what do you propose to do about it. What do the IRFU have at heart in your view then?

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

rand finale being moved to counter lack of coverage it would get on a Saturday if played then. Which would you prefer?
You whinge about the coverage the league gets. You whinge about access to players. You whinge about everything. Why not do something about it?
Yeah the IRFU is doing everything wrong so what do you propose to do about it. What do the IRFU have at heart in your view then?

Personally I'd prefer the Saturday (this goes for everyone in Tarf I've spoken too). I would also prefer if the whole league was taken more seriously and the date was not agreed just over a month before with no forward planning at the start of the year.

I do, I volunteer and do tonnes of stuff in my club and go to branch meetings representing my club and make suggestions which are sometimes ignored and sometimes listened too. I do not have any power to actually change anything. That is something you need in the real world. I'm not sure what you are expecting me to do outside of that.

The IRFU have the pro game then the schools game at the heart of their concern. I have said that time and again in the past and it is blatantly obvious. I can't understand your support of them in relation to their involvement in club rugby as a club rugby man.

good_afternoon

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Personally I'd prefer the Saturday (this goes for everyone in Tarf I've spoken too). I would also prefer if the whole league was taken more seriously and the date was not agreed just over a month before with no forward planning at the start of the year.

I do, I volunteer and do tonnes of stuff in my club and go to branch meetings representing my club and make suggestions which are sometimes ignored and sometimes listened too. I do not have any power to actually change anything. That is something you need in the real world. I'm not sure what you are expecting me to do outside of that.

The IRFU have the pro game then the schools game at the heart of their concern. I have said that time and again in the past and it is blatantly obvious. I can't understand your support of them in relation to their involvement in club rugby as a club rugby man.

I am an advocate for the club game and I do feel that those who are not, or have never been heavily involved never really understand.

The final of the league being played on sunday is an absolute disgrace. What a kick in the teeth for the working mans game? Some peoples lines of work, win or lose, will require them to stay in that night as they have to be up early for work the following morning. No celebration, no one last hurrah after a hard loss, nothing.

On top of that the number of spectators likely to attend will also be significantly depleted for similar reasons and more.

The pros will have the following day off or more from 'work'. Its similar to playing AIL games on the 2nd of January. Then no AIL games in mid February to make way for 'A' games.

The sacrifices put in by players in the AIL are massive. It is NOT just training Tuesday and Thursday for an hour a piece. Extra gym, training and time put in to training often takes up to 5 or more hours between travel and other factors, time off work. The list is endless. But what do they get in return? 10 months of hard work to play the biggest game of the season on a Sunday.

Dont get me wrong. You shouldnt play if youre not willing to do these things but the disrespect of this is shocking still.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Personally I'd prefer the Saturday (this goes for everyone in Tarf I've spoken too). I would also prefer if the whole league was taken more seriously and the date was not agreed just over a month before with no forward planning at the start of the year.

I do, I volunteer and do tonnes of stuff in my club and go to branch meetings representing my club and make suggestions which are sometimes ignored and sometimes listened too. I do not have any power to actually change anything. That is something you need in the real world. I'm not sure what you are expecting me to do outside of that.

The IRFU have the pro game then the schools game at the heart of their concern. I have said that time and again in the past and it is blatantly obvious. I can't understand your support of them in relation to their involvement in club rugby as a club rugby man.

Of course the Saturday would be the ideal option but you want to get some coverage so why play it the Saturday against the final round of the pro12.
You love to criticise the IRFU for doing x or not doing y in terms of the league but its the clubs that make up the league and the clubs have the power to make change.
To say the IRFU have the pro game then the schools game at heart isn't true. They are not doing enough in many areas and ive been heavily critical of them. Look at plenty of my post history and of my previous account but what do you want done to help the league? The league final is being played on a Sunday to combat other games which would negatively affect attendance.

good_afternoon wrote: »

I am an advocate for the club game and I do feel that those who are not, or have never been heavily involved never really understand.

The final of the league being played on sunday is an absolute disgrace. What a kick in the teeth for the working mans game? Some peoples lines of work, win or lose, will require them to stay in that night as they have to be up early for work the following morning. No celebration, no one last hurrah after a hard loss, nothing.

On top of that the number of spectators likely to attend will also be significantly depleted for similar reasons and more.

The pros will have the following day off or more from 'work'. Its similar to playing AIL games on the 2nd of January. Then no AIL games in mid February to make way for 'A' games.

The sacrifices put in by players in the AIL are massive. It is NOT just training Tuesday and Thursday for an hour a piece. Extra gym, training and time put in to training often takes up to 5 or more hours between travel and other factors, time off work. The list is endless. But what do they get in return? 10 months of hard work to play the biggest game of the season on a Sunday.

Dont get me wrong. You shouldnt play if youre not willing to do these things but the disrespect of this is shocking still.

Who are you referring to in relation to the red
League final on a Sunday is to combat serious competition to the attendance and tv figures for the final.
A Sunday fixture doesn't automatically mean the attendance will go down especially for a final.
You seem to think I don't understand or grasp what sacrifices players in the AIL make. I trained with my clubs senior set up for quite a few years before I stopped playing and completely understand what is put in. Playing a final on a Sunday is not a game changer. What do players want from a final?
There was AIL games in division 1 every weekend in February and on 2 weekends in division 2.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Of course the Saturday would be the ideal option but you want to get some coverage so why play it the Saturday against the final round of the pro12.
You love to criticise the IRFU for doing x or not doing y in terms of the league but its the clubs that make up the league and the clubs have the power to make change.
To say the IRFU have the pro game then the schools game at heart isn't true. They are not doing enough in many areas and ive been heavily critical of them. Look at plenty of my post history and of my previous account but what do you want done to help the league? The league final is being played on a Sunday to combat other games which would negatively affect attendance.

Do you really think the clubs would care all that much if it clashed with the same day as PRO12?? I can't imagine anyone actually involved in the clubs would at all.

the clubs run the league. That is not true. The governing body of the league is the IRFU. Stop trying to argue otherwise.

The highlighted is an absolute joke. I will not argue to that point as any agreement to the contrary is redundant.

Funny no-one else seems to think the Sunday is a good idea other then the ultimate IRFU supporter. Attendance would likely be the same either way. TV figures will hardly be anything anyway.

Tarf1234

good_afternoon wrote: »

I am an advocate for the club game and I do feel that those who are not, or have never been heavily involved never really understand.

The final of the league being played on sunday is an absolute disgrace. What a kick in the teeth for the working mans game? Some peoples lines of work, win or lose, will require them to stay in that night as they have to be up early for work the following morning. No celebration, no one last hurrah after a hard loss, nothing.

On top of that the number of spectators likely to attend will also be significantly depleted for similar reasons and more.

The pros will have the following day off or more from 'work'. Its similar to playing AIL games on the 2nd of January. Then no AIL games in mid February to make way for 'A' games.

The sacrifices put in by players in the AIL are massive. It is NOT just training Tuesday and Thursday for an hour a piece. Extra gym, training and time put in to training often takes up to 5 or more hours between travel and other factors, time off work. The list is endless. But what do they get in return? 10 months of hard work to play the biggest game of the season on a Sunday.

Dont get me wrong. You shouldnt play if youre not willing to do these things but the disrespect of this is shocking still.

Sure that's all nonsense. All the IRFU care about is the club game. If they had their way they'd get rid of all the pro game and all the loyal true rugby fans that follow it, for the sake of the new breed of fair weather fans that just follow the club game.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Do you really think the clubs would care all that much if it clashed with the same day as PRO12?? I can't imagine anyone actually involved in the clubs would at all.

the clubs run the league. That is not true. The governing body of the league is the IRFU. Stop trying to argue otherwise.

The highlighted is an absolute joke. I will not argue to that point as any agreement to the contrary is redundant.

Funny no-one else seems to think the Sunday is a good idea other then the ultimate IRFU supporter. Attendance would likely be the same either way. TV figures will hardly be anything anyway.

The governing body of the league is the IRFU and the clubs make up the IRFU and have the power to change/influence/direct the IRFU what they want. The clubs are a constituent part of the IRFU. They have the power to make the changes they want. They hold the aces
This idea that im the ultimate IRFU supporter is laughable. Im not at all. Im simply debating the points. Look to say the IRFU simply care about pros and schools is nonsense. Are they doing enough? No but they never will be.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The governing body of the league is the IRFU and the clubs make up the IRFU and have the power to change/influence/direct the IRFU what they want. The clubs are a constituent part of the IRFU. They have the power to make the changes they want. They hold the aces
This idea that im the ultimate IRFU supporter is laughable. Im not at all. Im simply debating the points. Look to say the IRFU simply care about pros and schools is nonsense. Are they doing enough? No but they never will be.

Bold - in much the same way I can change the way the country is run and decide how much tax I pay. All politicians are residents. Does that mean that all politicians care about all residents?

ArmchairQB

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The governing body of the league is the IRFU and the clubs make up the IRFU and have the power to change/influence/direct the IRFU what they want. The clubs are a constituent part of the IRFU. They have the power to make the changes they want. They hold the aces
This idea that im the ultimate IRFU supporter is laughable. Im not at all. Im simply debating the points. Look to say the IRFU simply care about pros and schools is nonsense. Are they doing enough? No but they never will be.

You are wrong on all counts with your statement above, your new name is Philip! An argument that it is not a slap in the face and hugely disrespectful to the club game is totally without merit. Club men that go into IRFU end up as IRFU men and club men no longer they are political animals who look to further themselves in the system so thy tow the line or leave!

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

You are wrong on all counts with your statement above, your new name is Philip! An argument that it is not a slap in the face and hugely disrespectful to the club game is totally without merit. Club men that go into IRFU end up as IRFU men and club men no longer they are political animals who look to further themselves in the system so thy tow the line or leave!

:rolleyes:
To say people change so much when in power is nonsense. To say that those delegated with power simply forgot where they come from is nonsense

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

:rolleyes:
To say people change so much when in power is nonsense. To say that those delegated with power simply forgot where they come from is nonsense

So you're saying politically motivated people do not change their behaviour once they are in a secured position of power? Makes a lot of sense when you look at history and human nature.

bamboozle

ArmchairQB wrote: »

You are wrong on all counts with your statement above, your new name is Philip! An argument that it is not a slap in the face and hugely disrespectful to the club game is totally without merit. Club men that go into IRFU end up as IRFU men and club men no longer they are political animals who look to further themselves in the system so thy tow the line or leave!

Stupid decision to have on a Sunday. Over last ten years my club has had its div 1 fixtures moved to noon to avoid fixture clashes and in at least one other case not moved and clashed with a six nations ireland game.
If irfu canvassed any of the clubs they would all much rather the final on a sat given the money that will be made on the gate and in the bar before and afterwards.
Heard from a good source a few years ago that the prize money for winning 1A was zero, so the least the irfu can do is facilitate the clubs increasing revenue.

Anyway here's hoping Clontarf win the play offs (and hats off to the irfu for listening to the clubs and bringing the playoffs back) tarf have made play offs in 8 of the last 10

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

So you're saying politically motivated people do not change their behaviour once they are in a secured position of power? Makes a lot of sense when you look at history and human nature.

To assume they will is nonsense but that isn't true.

bamboozle wrote: »

Stupid decision to have on a Sunday. Over last ten years my club has had its div 1 fixtures moved to noon to avoid fixture clashes and in at least one other case not moved and clashed with a six nations ireland game.
If irfu canvassed any of the clubs they would all much rather the final on a sat given the money that will be made on the gate and in the bar before and afterwards.
Heard from a good source a few years ago that the prize money for winning 1A was zero, so the least the irfu can do is facilitate the clubs increasing revenue.

Anyway here's hoping Clontarf win the play offs (and hats off to the irfu for listening to the clubs and bringing the playoffs back) tarf have made play offs in 8 of the last 10

Have clubs actually done anything that could get change to occur?
Something to properly get the attention of media etc etc. Clubs need to do more themselves.
IRFU don't run the bars. Its the stadium management who have a catering company who do it.
The Compass Group run the bars and food stalls etc in the Aviva and in no way would they give up the bar and Lansdowne etc wont either.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

To assume they will is nonsense but that isn't true.

Have clubs actually done anything that could get change to occur?
Something to properly get the attention of media etc etc. Clubs need to do more themselves.
IRFU don't run the bars. Its the stadium management who have a catering company who do it.
The Compass Group run the bars and food stalls etc in the Aviva and in no way would they give up the bar and Lansdowne etc wont either.

Obviously, you are correct yet again. Politicians never lie or act other then in the best interest of everyone.... Such a 'nonsense' of a point to make

Plenty of clubs do a huge amount, to a portion the blame to them is simply lazy and in line with your usual IRFU are God and will never hurt us nonsense.

I believe the bars that were referenced were the bars back in the individual clubs. People tend to go back to their clubs after finals. In their clubs they tend to have a drink or 2. Now in saying that, it may not be as many as some people can't or won't drink the night before work. Which might suggest that you would play the game on a day where the majority of people would not have work the next day. Say for example a Saturday??

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Obviously, you are correct yet again. Politicians never lie or act other then in the best interest of everyone.... Such a 'nonsense' of a point to make

Plenty of clubs do a huge amount, to a portion the blame to them is simply lazy and in line with your usual IRFU are God and will never hurt us nonsense.

I believe the bars that were referenced were the bars back in the individual clubs. People tend to go back to their clubs after finals. In their clubs they tend to have a drink or 2. Now in saying that, it may not be as many as some people can't or won't drink the night before work. Which might suggest that you would play the game on a day where the majority of people would not have work the next day. Say for example a Saturday??

you actually believe I think the IRFU are great. Im simply debating the points and giving an alternative view as you and others think IRFU cant do anything right etc and clubs should split in some ways from IRFU in terms of admin which is complete nonsense.
People tend to go back to their clubs after finals for Dublin clubs yes and in the case of this years final there is likely to be at least 1 non Dublin team in the final so its different.
Clubs can and should be doing more. Where's the innovation in terms of getting people to turn up. The IRFU cant be expected to do work the clubs should be doing themselves

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you actually believe I think the IRFU are great. Im simply debating the points and giving an alternative view as you and others think IRFU cant do anything right etc and clubs should split in some ways from IRFU in terms of admin which is complete nonsense.
People tend to go back to their clubs after finals for Dublin clubs yes and in the case of this years final there is likely to be at least 1 non Dublin team in the final so its different.
Clubs can and should be doing more. Where's the innovation in terms of getting people to turn up. The IRFU cant be expected to do work the clubs should be doing themselves

Yes, yes I do. I have never once seen you even remotely give the slightest part of any blame to them.

Can clubs do more? Yes. As I have said before. However, being handicapped by your union is not going to make that any easier. Playing the final on a Sunday is just another prime example of that handicapping.

If YM or Con win the AIL they won't go back to their clubs? I'd find that very odd.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Yes, yes I do. I have never once seen you even remotely give the slightest part of any blame to them.

Can clubs do more? Yes. As I have said before. However, being handicapped by your union is not going to make that any easier. Playing the final on a Sunday is just another prime example of that handicapping.

If YM or Con win the AIL they won't go back to their clubs? I'd find that very odd.

We im simply debating the points providing some balance considering you and others just seem to think the IRFU are ****e at their job at promoting the game.
Clubs are not really that handicapped by the union. They have the freedom to do a lot but in the main choose not to utilise that freedom.
Again the pro12 finale of the main league is Saturday afternoon. When would you play the games? Saturday evening? Would you get the games on tv then? Unlikely.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We im simply debating the points providing some balance considering you and others just seem to think the IRFU are ****e at their job at promoting the game.
Clubs are not really that handicapped by the union. They have the freedom to do a lot but in the main choose not to utilise that freedom.
Again the pro12 finale of the main league is Saturday afternoon. When would you play the games? Saturday evening? Would you get the games on tv then? Unlikely.

I didn't say they were ****e at their job I said they are primarily (considerably so) concerned with the pro and schools games and clubs is an after thought. They see that as their job so that's what they do.

What could the clubs do differently then? That they all appear to be ignoring the chance to do.

Are you expecting huge TV figures?

What about the Saturday afterwards? All Irish teams are out of the H Cup since Jan and the decision to play on 8 May was only made last month.

Are you honestly saying that Sunday 8 May is the best date for it?

MrJones2013

You know it makes sense, sure they even play the final of the NFL on a Sunday!

GavMan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you actually believe I think the IRFU are great.

To be fair, I've never once seen a post from you properly levelling criticism at the union

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I didn't say they were ****e at their job I said they are primarily (considerably so) concerned with the pro and schools games and clubs is an after thought. They see that as their job so that's what they do.

What could the clubs do differently then? That they all appear to be ignoring the chance to do.

Are you expecting huge TV figures?

What about the Saturday afterwards? All Irish teams are out of the H Cup since Jan and the decision to play on 8 May was only made last month.

Are you honestly saying that Sunday 8 May is the best date for it?

What alternative date then?
The Pro game is top as that earns the income that provides for all levels below that. Schools isn't next.
Clubs could market the games better themselves. You want promotion of games. IRFU running national campaigns is fine but its the clubs and the localised promo that will get people going to games and involved in some form with a club much more than national campaigns. Why clash with the European finals regardless of no irish side competing?

GavMan wrote: »

To be fair, I've never once seen a post from you properly levelling criticism at the union

:rolleyes: and countless other posts in countless threads
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93458037

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What alternative date then?
The Pro game is top as that earns the income that provides for all levels below that. Schools isn't next.
Clubs could market the games better themselves. You want promotion of games. IRFU running national campaigns is fine but its the clubs and the localised promo that will get people going to games and involved in some form with a club much more than national campaigns. Why clash with the European finals regardless of no irish side competing?

I've given you 2 potential alternative dates. Do you think that 8 May is the best? One question, one answer please.

MrJones2013

MrJones2013 wrote: »

Agree with you on this, RTE could do more also. 3 minutes on 'Against the Head' 6 nights a year plus a token AIL game at the business end of the season is ridiculous!

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Do we really need to go to down by this amount and this would significantly impact on more rural clubs which isn't great and would see more players leaving rural clubs to strengthen the city clubs. That isn't better for the sport overall.
But where is the demand for this. The crowds are not so great at AIL that we need much more. Clubs need to be doing better themselves/be more innovative with their own marketing/PR etc

The top is a previous post by myself and what is highlighted below it was the response from your good self

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We im simply debating the points providing some balance considering you and others just seem to think the IRFU are ****e at their job at promoting the game.
Clubs are not really that handicapped by the union. They have the freedom to do a lot but in the main choose not to utilise that freedom.
Again the pro12 finale of the main league is Saturday afternoon. When would you play the games? Saturday evening? Would you get the games on tv then? Unlikely.

Where is the demand for this??? Why worry about getting it on TV at all when there is no demand for it......

The final should be played on a Saturday, as I said before people that are true supporters of the club game would prioritise the club final ahead of the final round of league games in the PRO12.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I've given you 2 potential alternative dates. Do you think that 8 May is the best? One question, one answer please.

Yes. Theres complaints from some season is too long already. Why extend it further? May 14th champions cup final. 21st/28th Pro12 knockouts.

MrJones2013 wrote: »

The top is a previous post by myself and what is highlighted below it was the response from your good self

Where is the demand for this??? Why worry about getting it on TV at all when there is no demand for it......

The final should be played on a Saturday, as I said before people that are true supporters of the club game would prioritise the club final ahead of the final round of league games in the PRO12.

What exactly is a true supporter of the club game? Why should someone have to prioritise? Why should they not be able to go see both? Have the club game on Sunday and allow people still watch the pro12.

MrJones2013

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What exactly is a true supporter of the club game?

In my opinion a true supporter of the club game is someone that has an affiliation with a domestic amatuer club and has a genuine interest in the game at a domestic amatuer level as well as at a professional level. Someone who if their local club (for example Clontarf) are playing at the same time their province is on tv (for example Leinster), will attend their club game ahead of watching the game on tv. This happens on a regular basis, these are what I would class as true supporters of the club game and not merely followers of the sport.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why should someone have to prioritise?

Why should the choice be taken away from them, it doesn't seem to be an issue having to prioritise any other week of the season!

The Lost Sheep

MrJones2013 wrote: »

In my opinion a true supporter of the club game is someone that has an affiliation with a domestic amatuer club and has a genuine interest in the game at a domestic amatuer level as well as at a professional level. Someone who if their local club (for example Clontarf) are playing at the same time their province is on tv (for example Leinster), will attend their club game ahead of watching the game on tv. This happens on a regular basis, these are what I would class as true supporters of the club game and not merely followers of the sport.

Why should the choice be taken away from them, it doesn't seem to be an issue having to prioritise any other week of the season!

I coach underage teams in 2 clubs. I referee. Im on various committees. Without being/sounding arrogant. I do a lot more in the domestic amateur game than many here. In an ideal world you would get most who would go watch their local club if they were playing at the same time as their province but the overwhelming majority are not like that.

MrJones2013

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I coach underage teams in 2 clubs

What do you do when the 2 clubs play against each other

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I referee. Im on various committees. Without being/sounding arrogant. I do a lot more in the domestic amateur game than many here.

I'm not saying you personally, I am outlining my opinion of what a true supporter of what the club game is (which is what you asked), a person who would rather attend a club game than simply watch a professional game on the box.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

In an ideal world you would get most who would go watch their local club if they were playing at the same time as their province but the overwhelming majority are not like that.

That is obvious, those that are in the overwhelming majority are not what I would call true supporters of the club game and are more than likely relatively new to the sport which I have no issue with but why is the club final moved? By the sounds of it you think it is being moved to suit these people who probably don't even know it is on?

The Lost Sheep

MrJones2013 wrote: »

I'm not saying you personally, I am outlining my opinion of what a true supporter of what the club game is (which is what you asked), a person who would rather attend a club game than simply watch a professional game on the box.

But it is far from as simple as that. Im a "true supporter" and have been to 100+ games but on many occasions I have chosen to watch on tv a pro game than attend a club game. If you don't have a direct connection to a club game you are not going to attend so you

That is obvious, those that are in the overwhelming majority are not what I would call true supporters of the club game and are more than likely relatively new to the sport which I have no issue with but why is the club final moved? By the sounds of it you think it is being moved to suit these people who probably don't even know it is on?

I dont think we can judge people like that? Club final is moved to help the game. There is plenty who are not involved in any of the clubs who may be in the final who may go to it but if game is on the Saturday same day as pro12 games they wont go to/watch both. Media attention is affected with games on same day as pro12

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yes. Theres complaints from some season is too long already. Why extend it further? May 14th champions cup final. 21st/28th Pro12 knockouts.

QUOTE]

I find it incredulous that only last week you were complaining about adults having to play Sundays and why it is such a problem and now you have 100% flipped on that opinion. It really puts a question over your defence that you are not just defending the IRFU for the sake of it.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But it is far from as simple as that. Im a "true supporter" and have been to 100+ games but on many occasions I have chosen to watch on tv a pro game than attend a club game. If you don't have a direct connection to a club game you are not going to attend so you
I dont think we can judge people like that? Club final is moved to help the game. There is plenty who are not involved in any of the clubs who may be in the final who may go to it but if game is on the Saturday same day as pro12 games they wont go to/watch both. Media attention is affected with games on same day as pro12

As I think has been said the true supporter comment was not aimed at you.

I think a good way to describe a true supporter is the type of supporter who would go to the final of the AIL if their club is in it over the last round of PRO12 games..... In fact if a Tarf 'supporter' went to a Leinster game over an AIL final that we were in I would be fully in favour of giving them a life ban.

You keep speaking about media coverage and TV coverage... Will their be a huge TV audience? Will there be a plethora of articles? I don't see either happening. Why must we constantly try to bow to the needs of the Pro game and pro game supporters. Let's be honest most of the new provincial supporters aren't ever going to be interested in the club game.

MrJones2013

Tarf1234 wrote: »

As I think has been said the true supporter comment was not aimed at you.

I think a good way to describe a true supporter is the type of supporter who would go to the final of the AIL if their club is in it over the last round of PRO12 games..... In fact if a Tarf 'supporter' went to a Leinster game over an AIL final that we were in I would be fully in favour of giving them a life ban.

You keep speaking about media coverage and TV coverage... Will their be a huge TV audience? Will there be a plethora of articles? I don't see either happening. Why must we constantly try to bow to the needs of the Pro game and pro game supporters. Let's be honest most of the new provincial supporters aren't ever going to be interested in the club game.

Being from Limerick I generally gauge a rugby supporter by their ability to answer the following question: 'Who is Ger Earls?'

If they answer 'Thomond/Young Munsters legend' I would class them as a rugby supporter pre 2000, someone who has a good knowledge of both the amateur and professional sides of the sport. If they are dressed head to toe in Munster gear and answer 'Keith Earls Father' I would class them as a 'new age' rugby supporter. I have no problem with either type of supporter but it's a way of gauging what type of supporter is in front of you

Buer

Or, you know...the person is under 30 years of age?

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I find it incredulous that only last week you were complaining about adults having to play Sundays and why it is such a problem and now you have 100% flipped on that opinion. It really puts a question over your defence that you are not just defending the IRFU for the sake of it.

I haven't flipped at all. Its about context. Why extend the season. I regularly hear complaints from players the season is long enough already. A Sunday doesn't clash with final round of pro12.
Final wont be a week earlier as its the bank holiday weekend.

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I think a good way to describe a true supporter is the type of supporter who would go to the final of the AIL if their club is in it over the last round of PRO12 games..... In fact if a Tarf 'supporter' went to a Leinster game over an AIL final that we were in I would be fully in favour of giving them a life ban.

You keep speaking about media coverage and TV coverage... Will their be a huge TV audience? Will there be a plethora of articles? I don't see either happening. Why must we constantly try to bow to the needs of the Pro game and pro game supporters. Let's be honest most of the new provincial supporters aren't ever going to be interested in the club game.

Im not bowing to the needs of pro game but you have to use the pro game to get more interested in the club game. Its a huge resource that can be tapped to get into the game more

MrJones2013

Buer wrote: »

Or, you know...the person is under 30 years of age?

Obviously age would be factored in while making my judgement, I'm very judgemental

GavMan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

:rolleyes: and countless other posts in countless threads
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93458037

Utterly stinging....:rolleyes: