Ulster Bank League 2015-2016 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

Stainalert

Garryowen and Lansdowne both unbeaten also 😀

The Lost Sheep

Didnt get a chance to go to a game but some surprising/interesting results. Munsters losing by that much is a surprise. Trinity holding Ballymena to that score considering the hangover from the World Universities competition...
Dolphin getting 3 penalty tries... i assume scrum dominance????

Division 1A:
Clontarf 38 Ballynahinch 17
Garryowen 23 Cork Constitution 19
Old Belvedere 24 Galwegians 12
UCD 56 Young Munster 22
Lansdowne 24 Terenure College 10

Division 1B:
Ballymena 35 Dublin University 24
Buccaneers 30 Blackrock College 28
St Mary's 45 Shannon 12
UL Bohemians 13 Dolphin 28(awarded 3 penalty tries!!!)
Old Wesley 33 Belfast Harlequins 8

Division 2A:
Malone 20 Corinthians 14
Naas 34 UCC 27
Nenagh Ormond 36 Queen's University 13
Skerries 40 Cashel 43
Thomond 22 Banbridge 21

Division 2B:
Bective Rangers 27 Rainey Old Boys 22
Armagh 15 Highfield 29
Dungannon 23 Greystones 17
Seapoint 28 MU Barnhall 30
Sunday's Well 18 City of Derry 23

Division 2C
Boyne 32 Sligo 13
Dundalk 7 Tullamore 39
Kanturk 11 Old Crescent 18
Midleton 21 Wanderers 15
Navan 15 Bruff 17

Tarf1234

Tarf were awful in the first half on Saturday. Ballynahinch looked very impressive then the complete opposite in second half. The McGrath brothers now have 8 tries in 3 games. Not a bad return for 1 family. Joey Carberry is looking like a fantastic signing. Scrum was a real worry.

I wonder if it will be a case of second season syndrome for the nure. Good side and plenty coming through from 20s but apparently Lansdowne were much the better side on Friday.

Stainalert

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Tarf were awful in the first half on Saturday. Ballynahinch looked very impressive then the complete opposite in second half. The McGrath brothers now have 8 tries in 3 games. Not a bad return for 1 family. Joey Carberry is looking like a fantastic signing. Scrum was a real worry.

I wonder if it will be a case of second season syndrome for the nure. Good side and plenty coming through from 20s but apparently Lansdowne were much the better side on Friday.

Terenure will be a lot better when they have a proper 10 at the helm. I think Young Munsters and Ballynahinch have good reason to be worried

unce09f

UCD really cleaning up in terms of getting the best school leavers to join them. Wouldn't be surprised to see James Ryan play some 1A this season for them if his injury problems don't flare up again.

Tarf1234

Always been the way. The kids just see the scholarship and jump. Really is not beneficial to the club game. They brag about all the 'stars' they 'create' but in reality it is a nonsense. The stars they 'produce' are clearly already well on their way before they have any contact with them.

Players who still need the extra coaching and development never seem to go any further while at UCD. Which is why a lot of them seem to quit or go elsewhere, where they will get the additional coaching and exposure they need.

This issue for me is potentially the biggest issue in Leinster rugby.

The Lost Sheep

unce09f wrote: »

UCD really cleaning up in terms of getting the best school leavers to join them. Wouldn't be surprised to see James Ryan play some 1A this season for them if his injury problems don't flare up again.

Themselves, Lansdowne always do. If Ryan is as good as people make him out to be he should be looking at playing AIL....

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Always been the way. The kids just see the scholarship and jump. Really is not beneficial to the club game. They brag about all the 'stars' they 'create' but in reality it is a nonsense. The stars they 'produce' are clearly already well on their way before they have any contact with them.

Players who still need the extra coaching and development never seem to go any further while at UCD. Which is why a lot of them seem to quit or go elsewhere, where they will get the additional coaching and exposure they need.

This issue for me is potentially the biggest issue in Leinster rugby.

Would say the drop out in playing numbers at 13-14 and 18-20 is the biggest issues alright.
The scholarships as such aren't the issue considering so few overall qualify for them and then less actually get one. Its the lack of a link through teenage years with a club for so many and the OTT obsession with a few competitions

Anyway full set of fixtures this weekend. Interestingly in 1A the 5 sides currently in 1st-5th place are all away this weekend....
Havent looked much more at the fixtures for a stand out game yet.....

Tarf1234

Always, makes me wonder about these young lads forgoing the opportunity to play AIL straight out of school, the UCD no freshers rule has always been a bit of an oddity to me.

Agreed on your point I more meant in relation to the high end of things.

Certainly the lack of link between young lads in schools playing and clubs is the biggest issue over all.

Tarf1234

Rock Marys should be interesting. Marys probably won't have Fanj not sure if they lose anyone else with the A game coming up.

I reckon Con UCD should be a great game and interested in seeing how Wegains v Lansdowne goes, Lansdowne could be down some fairly important players.

Unfortunately can't make it down to YM v Tarf. Always enjoy going down there, great club.

unce09f

The top leinster u20 players aren't worries about playing 1A this season, they are focused on getting into the irish u20 squad, working with the sub-academy and getting bulked up. Oh and avoiding injury.

Quite a few are getting scholarships and the benefits that come with that. If you get into UCD it's going to be pretty hard not to play for them and take up that scholarship if you're offered it.

unce09f

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Rock Marys should be interesting. Marys probably won't have Fanj not sure if they lose anyone else with the A game coming up.

I reckon Con UCD should be a great game and interested in seeing how Wegains v Lansdowne goes, Lansdowne could be down some fairly important players.

Unfortunately can't make it down to YM v Tarf. Always enjoy going down there, great club.

the 1st scheduled A game is in November?

unless there is a friendly that hasn't been announced.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Always, makes me wonder about these young lads forgoing the opportunity to play AIL straight out of school, the UCD no freshers rule has always been a bit of an oddity to me.

Agreed on your point I more meant in relation to the high end of things.

Certainly the lack of link between young lads in schools playing and clubs is the biggest issue over all.

The links should be there especially at under 15/18 grades and schools should work with clubs for "open" club competitions to allow kids go back and play club rugby to keep links.
I say UCD don't play freshers as they want them playing 20s and possibly feel its too much for most....
Like considering the numbers going to UCD each year how do UCD not have more sides fielding at 20s and the metro competitions....

unce09f wrote: »

The top leinster u20 players aren't worries about playing 1A this season, they are focused on getting into the irish u20 squad, working with the sub-academy and getting bulked up. Oh and avoiding injury.

Quite a few are getting scholarships too and the benefits that come with that. If you get into UCD it's going to be pretty hard not to play for them and take up that scholarship if you're offered it.

They should as its the natural progression for them. They are focused on irish 20s but that's just one part of the season. No Irish 20s games for at least 3 months. Yes there is training camps but they should be looking at AIL if they want to do well with 20s.

unce09f

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

They should as its the natural progression for them. They are focused on irish 20s but that's just one part of the season. No Irish 20s games for at least 3 months. Yes there is training camps but they should be looking at AIL if they want to do well with 20s.

it's largely irrelevant, Ross Byrne was the starting outhalf for Ireland u20 and he had never played 1A, same with Carberry. The list goes on and on. Going to UCD does a player no harm when it comes to playing irish u20.

i'm sure they all would have liked to play 1A but it's not a priority, they will play it eventually anyway.

The priority is doing what needs to be done to make the academy and that's usually playing irish u20 rugby, avoiding injury and working your ass off in the sub-academy.

Tarf1234

unce09f wrote: »

the 1st scheduled A game is in November?

unless there is a friendly that hasn't been announced.

There is a game on next Wednesday from what I have been told. not sure who is playing who but presume it is inter pro's

Tarf1234

unce09f wrote: »

it's largely irrelevant, Ross Byrne was the starting outhalf for Ireland u20 and he had never played 1A, same with Carberry. The list goes on and on. Going to UCD does a player no harm when it comes to playing irish u20.

i'm sure they all would have liked to play 1A but it's not a priority, they will play it eventually anyway.

The priority is doing what needs to be done to make the academy and that's usually playing irish u20 rugby, avoiding injury and working your ass off in the sub-academy.

It annoys me to agree with that but it is true to a certain extent. Conor O'Brien played in an AIL final last year and in plenty of AIL games for a top team (and excelled) and didn't make the squad. Then fairly average guys made the cut having not done much at under 20s even.

Being in Lansdowne and UCD is a huge boost it seems. Particularly Lansdowne while Ruddock was 20s coach of the national side. He told numerous guys that he 'hadn't seen enough of them' and used it as a bargaining chip during recruitment as well.

Stainalert

Tarf1234 wrote: »

It annoys me to agree with that but it is true to a certain extent. Conor O'Brien played in an AIL final last year and in plenty of AIL games for a top team (and excelled) and didn't make the squad. Then fairly average guys made the cut having not done much at under 20s even.

Being in Lansdowne and UCD is a huge boost it seems. Particularly Lansdowne while Ruddock was 20s coach of the national side. He told numerous guys that he 'hadn't seen enough of them' and used it as a bargaining chip during recruitment as well.

Do you seriously think the IRFU would have allowed Ruddock to be involved with 20's recruitment for Lansdowne? Do you think a professional coach would jeopardise his career and reputation by engaging in such activity?

Re Conor O'Brien it was Nigel Carolan who didn't select O'Brien and not Ruddock.

Is it not the case that a lot of the good players were recruited by UCD and Lansdowne and then made their way onto the U20s by what they did in their Inter Pro's and their clubs rather than vice versa?

ArmchairQB

Plenty of other so called scholarships being offered by UCD such as accommodation, points, Registration Fees, and living allowance as well as the full scholarship so not as limited as people may think and as has been said hard to turn down. Most of the premier squad and a good portion of pennant squad will have been offered some enticement from UCD. Only supposed to be allowed offer Ad Astra but in reality offer large amounts of other enticements I know plenty of lads getting some or all of above. The main worry is that Leinster and the IRFU like their sub academy players in colleges and clubs will be coming more irrelevant. Players get duped or star struck but realise quickly they need to move on to get noticed or improve. Such as Byrne and Carberry to Clontarf which has been a very positive move for both

Senior Transfer window closes at midnight tonight, will probably be a few late arrivals at one or two clubs. This weekend will be interesting great to see old battles such as Rock & Marys taking place in 1b with the good weather they will hopefully attract a big crowd. Both sets of supporters will be looking at Marys Coach Peter Smith:) League table will be interesting come Saturday evening.

SA09

unce09f wrote: »

it's largely irrelevant, Ross Byrne was the starting outhalf for Ireland u20 and he had never played 1A, same with Carberry. The list goes on and on. Going to UCD does a player no harm when it comes to playing irish u20.

i'm sure they all would have liked to play 1A but it's not a priority, they will play it eventually anyway.

The priority is doing what needs to be done to make the academy and that's usually playing irish u20 rugby, avoiding injury and working your ass off in the sub-academy.

Fairly certain both Ross Byrne and Carberry played 1A with UCD and no doubt it would have made them better players by playing at this level each week

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

Do you seriously think the IRFU would have allowed Ruddock to be involved with 20's recruitment for Lansdowne? Do you think a professional coach would jeopardise his career and reputation by engaging in such activity?

Re Conor O'Brien it was Nigel Carolan who didn't select O'Brien and not Ruddock.

Is it not the case that a lot of the good players were recruited by UCD and Lansdowne and then made their way onto the U20s by what they did in their Inter Pro's and their clubs rather than vice versa?

From what I've been told, from very senior and reliable sources, it was one of the the primary points behind Nucifera sacking Ruddock. I personally know people who were recruited following lengthy conversations with Mike Ruddock, as is the norm with most AIL coaches.

On Conor O'Brien I am aware of that. It was more of a general point.

Don't 100% agree on your last point obviously players like Ross Byrne, Gary Ringrose are always going to go to World Cups. Selection bankers like them are not the norm though. Other players selected tend to be from a select few clubs as they are the only clubs they are seen in i.e. the only sides the 20s coaches go to.

Inter pro's is a very short window and is a long time before 6Nations and JWC and at that age time is a huge deal. Don't really think inter pro's is ideal for using as a reference point.

Tarf1234

SA09 wrote: »

Fairly certain both Ross Byrne and Carberry played 1A with UCD and no doubt it would have made them better players by playing at this level each week

I don't think Carberry did last year. Not sure on Ross Byrne. Byrne certainly didn't play much if he did play at all.

Carberry is definitely benefiting from playing seniors this year already in a club environment. Looks excellent to date, and I think will learn a lot more playing consistently in a an experienced team rather than a youthful UCD side.

Stainalert

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I don't think Carberry did last year. Not sure on Ross Byrne. Byrne certainly didn't play much if he did play at all.

Carberry is definitely benefiting from playing seniors this year already in a club environment. Looks excellent to date, and I think will learn a lot more playing consistently in a an experienced team rather than a youthful UCD side.

Carberry and Byrne both played AIL rugby with UCD last season

Stainalert

Tarf1234 wrote: »

From what I've been told, from very senior and reliable sources, it was one of the the primary points behind Nucifera sacking Ruddock. I personally know people who were recruited following lengthy conversations with Mike Ruddock, as is the norm with most AIL coaches.

On Conor O'Brien I am aware of that. It was more of a general point.

Don't 100% agree on your last point obviously players like Ross Byrne, Gary Ringrose are always going to go to World Cups. Selection bankers like them are not the norm though. Other players selected tend to be from a select few clubs as they are the only clubs they are seen in i.e. the only sides the 20s coaches go to.

Inter pro's is a very short window and is a long time before 6Nations and JWC and at that age time is a huge deal. Don't really think inter pro's is ideal for using as a reference point.

Ruddock wasn't sacked

Who did Ruddock recruit for Lansdowne 20s?

My experience of the norm is actually that most senior AIL coaches do not recruit for their 20s squad

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

Ruddock wasn't sacked

Who did Ruddock recruit for Lansdowne 20s?

My experience of the norm is actually that most senior AIL coaches do not recruit for their 20s squad

Of course the official line is he wasn't sacked I am well aware of that. That does not in any way make it a fact. It is widely known he was 'asked to step down'

Loads of guys and it would be unfair to mention names. I know of at least 2 last year who went and were very 'disappointed' when Ruddock 'left' Irish under 20s.

At the highest level of under 20s players AIL coaches almost always get involved. In most cases the very best 20s players should be looking to play AIL in their first year so it would make sense anyway. I know this at least was the case with Ruddock and is the case in Marys, Clontarf and Belvo. I'd imagine it is the same in Terenure, Rock, Old Wesley etc.

Stainalert

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Of course the official line is he wasn't sacked I am well aware of that. That does not in any way make it a fact. It is widely known he was 'asked to step down'

Loads of guys and it would be unfair to mention names. I know of at least 2 last year who went and were very 'disappointed' when Ruddock 'left' Irish under 20s.

At the highest level of under 20s players AIL coaches almost always get involved. In most cases the very best 20s players should be looking to play AIL in their first year so it would make sense anyway. I know this at least was the case with Ruddock and is the case in Marys, Clontarf and Belvo. I'd imagine it is the same in Terenure, Rock, Old Wesley etc.

Hmm so it is okay to make various accusations against Ruddock without presenting any actual facts but it is unfair to mention player names out of respect to players !! Nice logic!

I think recruiting a school "star" out of school for your senior squad is a bit different to recruiting players for a 20's team

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

Carberry and Byrne both played AIL rugby with UCD last season

Didn't recall seeing either play. Ross Byrne certainly looks to have played a good bit and against us in 1 game so I'll take that back!!

Can't find any teamsheets with Joey Carberry on them.

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

Hmm so it is okay to make various accusations against Ruddock without presenting any actual facts but it is unfair to mention player names out of respect to players !! Nice logic!

I think recruiting a school "star" out of school for your senior squad is a bit different to recruiting players for a 20's team

Understand your point on my logic but serious difference between a pro coach and young lad.

I'm not suggesting they all go straight in and start every game but more that they would be seen as a part of the senior squad and play both 20s and 1s in their first season. It is relatively common, we had roughly 8 players in that situation last year.

unce09f

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Didn't recall seeing either play. Ross Byrne certainly looks to have played a good bit and against us in 1 game so I'll take that back!!

Can't find any teamsheets with Joey Carberry on them.

Byrne played last year but that was after already being the irish u20 outhalf. The season before he hadn't played 1A for UCD and was the Ireland u20 outhalf as an u19. Nick McCarthy the same at scrumhalf.

Carbery played one maybe two games off the bench for UCD, he didn't play outhalf, both appearances were on the wing iirc.

Stainalert

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Didn't recall seeing either play. Ross Byrne certainly looks to have played a good bit and against us in 1 game so I'll take that back!!

Can't find any teamsheets with Joey Carberry on them.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv?play=media&id=20319

Carberry

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv?play=media&id=20319

Carberry

Only checked the ones with teamsheets.

The Lost Sheep

unce09f wrote: »

it's largely irrelevant, Ross Byrne was the starting outhalf for Ireland u20 and he had never played 1A, same with Carberry. The list goes on and on. Going to UCD does a player no harm when it comes to playing irish u20.

i'm sure they all would have liked to play 1A but it's not a priority, they will play it eventually anyway.

The priority is doing what needs to be done to make the academy and that's usually playing irish u20 rugby, avoiding injury and working your ass off in the sub-academy.

Going to UCD and only playing 20s can harm chances especially if they could go elsewhere and play AIL....
If you want to play irish 20s its a priority to be playing division 1 bar likes of UCC/Queens in Munster/Ulster

Stainalert wrote: »

Do you seriously think the IRFU would have allowed Ruddock to be involved with 20's recruitment for Lansdowne? Do you think a professional coach would jeopardise his career and reputation by engaging in such activity?

Re Conor O'Brien it was Nigel Carolan who didn't select O'Brien and not Ruddock.

Is it not the case that a lot of the good players were recruited by UCD and Lansdowne and then made their way onto the U20s by what they did in their Inter Pro's and their clubs rather than vice versa?

Do you seriously think Ruddock in one form or another wasn't involved in recruiting guys to Lansdowne.......

Stainalert wrote: »

Ruddock wasn't sacked

Who did Ruddock recruit for Lansdowne 20s?

My experience of the norm is actually that most senior AIL coaches do not recruit for their 20s squad

My experience is they are involved in addition to director of rugby.....

Stainalert

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Going to UCD and only playing 20s can harm chances especially if they could go elsewhere and play AIL....
If you want to play irish 20s its a priority to be playing division 1 bar likes of UCC/Queens in Munster/Ulster

Do you seriously think Ruddock in one form or another wasn't involved in recruiting guys to Lansdowne.......

My experience is they are involved in addition to director of rugby.....

Of course Ruddock is involved in recruitment - I have been told by an IRFU source that one of the conditions of the IRFU allowing him to coach Lansdowne was that he could not talk to school leavers. Lansdowne recruited well at 20's level long before Ruddock started coaching there, Dave Kearney, Marty Moore, Dominic Ryan etc

unce09f

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Going to UCD and only playing 20s can harm chances especially if they could go elsewhere and play AIL....
If you want to play irish 20s its a priority to be playing division 1 bar likes of UCC/Queens in Munster/Ulster

your best of making the irish 20's is playing well in the interpros and in any trials and warmups.

Gearoid Lyons started at 12 all season for Young Munster and didn't play once for irish u20.

it's quite clear that going to UCD and only play u20 rugby won't affect your chances at playing irish u20 rugby - Andrew Porter, Sean McNulty and Jeremy Loughman were three forwards who played u20 only rugby last year for UCD and played for Ireland u20.

Only 4 Leinster u20 players joined UCD this summer:
James Ryan, Will Connors, Nick Peters and Jimmy O'Brien.

Tarf1234

unce09f wrote: »

your best of making the irish 20's is playing well in the interpros and in any trials and warmups.

Gearoid Lyons started at 12 all season for Young Munster and didn't play once for irish u20.

it's quite clear that going to UCD and only play u20 rugby won't affect your chances at playing irish u20 rugby - Andrew Porter, Sean McNulty and Jeremy Loughman were three forwards who played u20 only rugby last year for UCD and played for Ireland u20.

Only 4 Leinster u20 players joined UCD this summer:
James Ryan, Will Connors, Nick Peters and Jimmy O'Brien.

If that's all that must be the lowest in a long time. How many did Lansdowne/Terenure have in it? Tarf had 3 with another 3/4 who were involved before the final cut. Marys Had 2 Terry Kennedy and Aspil. Do OB have any? Navan I know managed to hold onto 1 or 2 of their guys who were in it as well which is a surprise.

Stainalert

Tarf1234 wrote: »

If that's all that must be the lowest in a long time. How many did Lansdowne/Terenure have in it? Tarf had 3 with another 3/4 who were involved before the final cut. Marys Had 2 Terry Kennedy and Aspil. Do OB have any? Navan I know managed to hold onto 1 or 2 of their guys who were in it as well which is a surprise.

Team that played against Ulster

Certainly more than 4 UCD players but I am guessing some were there last year. Guys like Kack Regan from Leinster 19s have also joined UCD

LEINSTER U20's:
15. Jack Power (Dublin University FC) 14. Matt Byrne (Terenure College RFC) 13. Conor O'Brien (Clontarf FC) / Terry Kennedy (St Mary's College RFC) 58 mins 12. Jimmy O'Brien (Newbridge College) 11. Hugo Keenan (UCD RFC) 10. Matthew Gilsenan (UCD RFC) / Tommy Whittle (Dublin University FC) 63 mins 9. Rowan Osbourne (Clongowes Wood College S.J.) / Nick Peters (Gonzaga College) 63 mins 1. James Bollard (Dublin University FC) / Vakh Abdaladze (Clontarf FC) 58 mins 2. John Molony (Clongowes Wood College S.J.) / James Brennan (UCD RFC) 70 mins 3. Adam Coyne (Naas RFC) / Greg McGrath (Lansdowne FC) 62 mins 4. Michael Melia (Terenure College RFC) / Rob Lalor (Terenure College RFC) 52 mins 5. James Ryan (Terenure College RFC Captain) 6. Will Connors (UCD RFC) / Greg Jones (UCD RFC) ht 7. David Aspil (St Mary's College RFC) 8. Max Deegan (Lansdowne FC).

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

Team that played against Ulster

Certainly more than 4 UCD players but I am guessing some were there last year. Guys like Kack Regan from Leinster 19s have also joined UCD

LEINSTER U20's:
15. Jack Power (Dublin University FC) 14. Matt Byrne (Terenure College RFC) 13. Conor O'Brien (Clontarf FC) / Terry Kennedy (St Mary's College RFC) 58 mins 12. Jimmy O'Brien (Newbridge College) 11. Hugo Keenan (UCD RFC) 10. Matthew Gilsenan (UCD RFC) / Tommy Whittle (Dublin University FC) 63 mins 9. Rowan Osbourne (Clongowes Wood College S.J.) / Nick Peters (Gonzaga College) 63 mins 1. James Bollard (Dublin University FC) / Vakh Abdaladze (Clontarf FC) 58 mins 2. John Molony (Clongowes Wood College S.J.) / James Brennan (UCD RFC) 70 mins 3. Adam Coyne (Naas RFC) / Greg McGrath (Lansdowne FC) 62 mins 4. Michael Melia (Terenure College RFC) / Rob Lalor (Terenure College RFC) 52 mins 5. James Ryan (Terenure College RFC Captain) 6. Will Connors (UCD RFC) / Greg Jones (UCD RFC) ht 7. David Aspil (St Mary's College RFC) 8. Max Deegan (Lansdowne FC).

Still lots of UCD on that team sheet! Forgot Jack Power had gone to Trin, great signing for them. 4 Nure lads isn't bad as well.

unce09f

Stainalert wrote: »

Team that played against Ulster

Certainly more than 4 UCD players but I am guessing some were there last year. Guys like Kack Regan from Leinster 19s have also joined UCD

LEINSTER U20's:
15. Jack Power (Dublin University FC) 14. Matt Byrne (Terenure College RFC) 13. Conor O'Brien (Clontarf FC) / Terry Kennedy (St Mary's College RFC) 58 mins 12. Jimmy O'Brien (Newbridge College) 11. Hugo Keenan (UCD RFC) 10. Matthew Gilsenan (UCD RFC) / Tommy Whittle (Dublin University FC) 63 mins 9. Rowan Osbourne (Clongowes Wood College S.J.) / Nick Peters (Gonzaga College) 63 mins 1. James Bollard (Dublin University FC) / Vakh Abdaladze (Clontarf FC) 58 mins 2. John Molony (Clongowes Wood College S.J.) / James Brennan (UCD RFC) 70 mins 3. Adam Coyne (Naas RFC) / Greg McGrath (Lansdowne FC) 62 mins 4. Michael Melia (Terenure College RFC) / Rob Lalor (Terenure College RFC) 52 mins 5. James Ryan (Terenure College RFC Captain) 6. Will Connors (UCD RFC) / Greg Jones (UCD RFC) ht 7. David Aspil (St Mary's College RFC) 8. Max Deegan (Lansdowne FC).

15. Jack Power (DUFC)
14. Matt Byrne (Terenure College RFC)
13. Conor O'Brien (Clontarf FC) / Terry Kennedy (St Mary's College RFC) 58 mins
12. Jimmy O'Brien (UCD)
11. Hugo Keenan (UCD RFC)
10. Matthew Gilsenan (UCD RFC) / Tommy Whittle (DUFC) 63 mins
9. Rowan Osbourne (DUFC) / Nick Peters (UCD) 63 mins
1. James Bollard (Dublin University FC) / Vakh Abdaladze (Clontarf FC) 58 mins
2. John Molony (Galway) / James Brennan (UCD RFC) 70 mins
3. Adam Coyne (Naas RFC) / Greg McGrath (Lansdowne FC) 62 mins
4. Michael Melia (Terenure College RFC) / Rob Lalor (Terenure College RFC) 52 mins
5. James Ryan (UCD)
6. Will Connors (UCD RFC) / Greg Jones (UCD RFC) ht
7. David Aspil (St Mary's College RFC)
8. Max Deegan (Lansdowne)


Jones, Brennan, Gilsenan, Keenan and Power all joined UCD as u19's last summer and played u20 last year. Brennan was spotted playing for UCD afaik.

unce09f

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Still lots of UCD on that team sheet! Forgot Jack Power had gone to Trin, great signing for them. 4 Nure lads isn't bad as well.

Power moved? News to me.

Some lads joined UCD as u19's, only 4 joined this summer.
afaik Leinster u19's who joined UCD this summer:
Jack Regan, Rory Mulvihill and Tim Foley. Plus Mike Sweeney and Jonny Guy who both missed interpro's due to injury.

ArmchairQB

unce09f wrote: »

15. Jack Power (DUFC)
14. Matt Byrne (Terenure College RFC)
13. Conor O'Brien (Clontarf FC) / Terry Kennedy (St Mary's College RFC) 58 mins
12. Jimmy O'Brien (UCD)
11. Hugo Keenan (UCD RFC)
10. Matthew Gilsenan (UCD RFC) / Tommy Whittle (DUFC) 63 mins
9. Rowan Osbourne (DUFC) / Nick Peters (UCD) 63 mins
1. James Bollard (Dublin University FC) / Vakh Abdaladze (Clontarf FC) 58 mins
2. John Molony (Galway) / James Brennan (UCD RFC) 70 mins
3. Adam Coyne (Naas RFC) / Greg McGrath (Lansdowne FC) 62 mins
4. Michael Melia (Terenure College RFC) / Rob Lalor (Terenure College RFC) 52 mins
5. James Ryan (UCD)
6. Will Connors (UCD RFC) / Greg Jones (UCD RFC) ht
7. David Aspil (St Mary's College RFC)
8. Max Deegan (Lansdowne)


Jones, Brennan, Gilsenan, Keenan and Power all joined UCD as u19's last summer and played u20 last year. Brennan was spotted playing for UCD afaik.

2nd row Treacy also played a few games and is with UCD

unce09f

ArmchairQB wrote: »

2nd row Treacy also played a few games and is with UCD

didn't play in interpro's but yeah he got a few friendlies. Joined UCD as an u19 iirc.

Lansdowne signed these leinster players this summer:
Max Deegan, Greg McGrath, Conor Farrell, Tadgh McElroy, Paul Boyle, Martin Mulhall, Jake Howlett.
UCD: James Ryan, Will Connors, Jimmy O'Brien, Nick Peters, Jack Regan, Rory Mulvihill and Tim Foley

SA09

Stainalert wrote: »

Of course Ruddock is involved in recruitment - I have been told by an IRFU source that one of the conditions of the IRFU allowing him to coach Lansdowne was that he could not talk to school leavers. Lansdowne recruited well at 20's level long before Ruddock started coaching there, Dave Kearney, Marty Moore, Dominic Ryan etc

I think it's naïve to think that Ruddock being at Lansdowne did not have a big effect on swaying school leavers players to play with Lansdowne.

Players being exposed to AIL rugby is definitely an advantage and should rank above all else when choosing a club.

Oisín Heffernan left Lansdowne last season for Terenure so that he would be guaranteed AIL games which was not going to be the case at Lansdowne under Ruddock. However, I assume that part of the reason Heffernan joined Lansdowne in the first place from school was to ensure he got exposure to Ruddock and get into the Irish U20 set up.

Hypothetically, if he had stayed at Lansdowne and not played AIL but instead played U20 for Lansdowne, he would probably have still made Ireland U20 team but he would be a far worse off player for it.

unce09f

SA09 wrote: »

Hypothetically, if he had stayed at Lansdowne and not played AIL but instead played U20 for Lansdowne, he would probably have still made Ireland U20 team but he would be a far worse off player for it.

He had already played Irish u20 rugby when he moved to Terenure, so it was probably irrelevant. He was rated the best TH at his age group for awhile.

Ruddock did a good job, regardless if he had a slight bias towards Lansdowne players.

SA09

unce09f wrote: »

He had already played Irish u20 rugby when he moved to Terenure, so it was probably irrelevant. He was rated the best TH at his age group for awhile.

Ruddock did a good job, regardless if he had a slight bias towards Lansdowne players.

My point was that he was a better player going to RWC having had a year of AIL rather than a year of U20 rugby which would have been the case if he stayed in Lansdowne. Therefore it is important that young players choose their clubs wisely.

There are always exceptions where playing AIL wont make any difference as there are just better players playing in U20 leagues but for the most part - I would imagine Irish selectors would prefer to see players playing at that level.

Stainalert

SA09 wrote: »

I think it's naïve to think that Ruddock being at Lansdowne did not have a big effect on swaying school leavers players to play with Lansdowne.

Players being exposed to AIL rugby is definitely an advantage and should rank above all else when choosing a club.

Oisín Heffernan left Lansdowne last season for Terenure so that he would be guaranteed AIL games which was not going to be the case at Lansdowne under Ruddock. However, I assume that part of the reason Heffernan joined Lansdowne in the first place from school was to ensure he got exposure to Ruddock and get into the Irish U20 set up.

Hypothetically, if he had stayed at Lansdowne and not played AIL but instead played U20 for Lansdowne, he would probably have still made Ireland U20 team but he would be a far worse off player for it.

Don't think Heffernan is a great example he has gone downhill in the last season if you ask me - he could not make the starting XV at the recent world cup having finished the previous one as the starting TH. He got a hard time the other night in the AIL also.

Think any player moving to be "guaranteed AIL games" is crazy and shows a total lack of character on the players part. If the player is good enough he should back himself and not take the easy option.

So Ruddock is supposed to be the reason Heffernan came to Lansdowne and the reason he left as well - Not a great recruitment case really

ArmchairQB

unce09f wrote: »

didn't play in interpro's but yeah he got a few friendlies. Joined UCD as an u19 iirc.

Lansdowne signed these leinster players this summer:
Max Deegan, Greg McGrath, Conor Farrell, Tadgh McElroy, Paul Boyle, Martin Mulhall, Jake Howlett.
UCD: James Ryan, Will Connors, Jimmy O'Brien, Nick Peters, Jack Regan, Rory Mulvihill and Tim Foley

Clongowes injured centre Mulcahy saw him with UCD as well. Injured for the final & interpros expect him to be involved in Irish 20s.

unce09f

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Clongowes injured centre Mulcahy saw him with UCD as well. Injured for the final & interpros expect him to be involved in Irish 20s.

yeah he has a chance if he can stay healthy, missed u19 and u20 interpros with injury, outperformed Sam Arnold at a u18 ireland schools versus ireland clubs game.

Tarf1234

unce09f wrote: »

He had already played Irish u20 rugby when he moved to Terenure, so it was probably irrelevant. He was rated the best TH at his age group for awhile.

Ruddock did a good job, regardless if he had a slight bias towards Lansdowne players.

Have to agree with that. I know my comments have not been all that positive but he has done a great job for Lansdowne and I thought he was good with the 20s too. Excellent coach

SA09

Stainalert wrote: »

Don't think Heffernan is a great example he has gone downhill in the last season if you ask me - he could not make the starting XV at the recent world cup having finished the previous one as the starting TH. He got a hard time the other night in the AIL also.

Think any player moving to be "guaranteed AIL games" is crazy and shows a total lack of character on the players part. If the player is good enough he should back himself and not take the easy option.

So Ruddock is supposed to be the reason Heffernan came to Lansdowne and the reason he left as well - Not a great recruitment case really

Obviously a Lansdowne man

unce09f

Stainalert wrote: »

Don't think Heffernan is a great example he has gone downhill in the last season if you ask me - he could not make the starting XV at the recent world cup having finished the previous one as the starting TH. He got a hard time the other night in the AIL also.

Think any player moving to be "guaranteed AIL games" is crazy and shows a total lack of character on the players part. If the player is good enough he should back himself and not take the easy option.

So Ruddock is supposed to be the reason Heffernan came to Lansdowne and the reason he left as well - Not a great recruitment case really

Heffernan was never a top tier TH prospect like Moore or Furlong. And I don't believe he was ever 1st choice ireland TH as an u19, Rory Burke was always ahead of him.

Be interesting to see how he and Loughman develop while in the academy.

Stainalert

SA09 wrote: »

Obviously a Lansdowne man

If you was I at the Lansdowne Terenure game last Friday guilty but then that's hardly a secret

26-09-2015, 09:19 #249 Stainalert
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Was at the Terenure Lansdowne game. Lansdowne were well on top. Terenure were missing their two first choice out halves and it showed. Peter Dooley for Lansdowne was outstanding. Terenure also got hit with a spate of injuries during the game. Finished up 24 10 to Lansdowne.

Tarf1234

unce09f wrote: »

Heffernan was never a top tier TH prospect like Moore or Furlong. And I don't believe he was ever 1st choice ireland TH as an u19, Rory Burke was always ahead of him.

Be interesting to see how he develops while in the academy.

Must agree nowhere near the 2 of them. Really not a great example. Struggled significantly last year in AIL when I saw him. Doesn't look half the player of either of the above.