Ulster Bank League 2015-2016 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

unce09f

Heffernan struggling against Dooley is hardly surprising.

ArmchairQB

SA09 wrote: »

My point was that he was a better player going to RWC having had a year of AIL rather than a year of U20 rugby which would have been the case if he stayed in Lansdowne. Therefore it is important that young players choose their clubs wisely.

There are always exceptions where playing AIL wont make any difference as there are just better players playing in U20 leagues but for the most part - I would imagine Irish selectors would prefer to see players playing at that level.

Not the best example as he has dis improved since leaving Lansdowne. if I was a front row such as Heffernan I would have stayed put, never really knew what all the fuss was about him always thought him soft. He has the size but lacks motivation. Regardless of our thoughts about Ruddock he would have improved Heffernan if there was any improvement in him he does seem to get the best out of his forwards. I also heard that Young Dooley gave him a lesson in scrummaging last weekend

Tarf1234

SA09 wrote: »

Obviously a Lansdowne man

In his defence I don't think he has tried to hide that. Can't argue against him arguing his clubs corner

unce09f

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Must agree nowhere near the 2 of them. Really not a great example. Struggled significantly last year in AIL when I saw him. Doesn't look half the player of either of the above.

He is a good solid TH prospect, Leinster needed to sign a TH for the academy as there was none in there. They signed him and Loughman. Both will get plenty of time to develop in the academy as there is no rush there.

Stainalert

SA09 wrote: »

My point was that he was a better player going to RWC having had a year of AIL rather than a year of U20 rugby which would have been the case if he stayed in Lansdowne. Therefore it is important that young players choose their clubs wisely.

There are always exceptions where playing AIL wont make any difference as there are just better players playing in U20 leagues but for the most part - I would imagine Irish selectors would prefer to see players playing at that level.

Fair comment

unce09f

Lansdowne have a good recent record with props: Martin Moore, Jack O'Connell and Peter Dooley.

Tarf1234

unce09f wrote: »

Lansdowne have a good recent record with props: Martin Moore, Jack O'Connell and Peter Dooley.

It really seems props in Leinster have only really come out of/developed in Tarf and Lansdowne for the last few years. With the exception of Ed Byrne and Jack McGrath.

Tarf1234

unce09f wrote: »

He is a good solid TH prospect, Leinster needed to sign a TH for the academy as there was none in there. They signed him and Loughman. Both will get plenty of time to develop in the academy as there is no rush there.

Fair to a certain extent, still don't thing he is good enough to make it long term. Thankfully TF and MM have plenty left in the tank

Stainalert

Tarf1234 wrote: »

It really seems props in Leinster have only really come out of/developed in Tarf and Lansdowne for the last few years. With the exception of Ed Byrne and Jack McGrath.

UCD possibly bucking that trend now but a bit early to tell - Think Loughman and Porter are both pretty decent prospects

unce09f

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Fair to a certain extent, still don't thing he is good enough to make it long term. Thankfully TF and MM have plenty left in the tank

me either at least not at leinster. Although stranger things have happened.

unce09f

Stainalert wrote: »

UCD possibly bucking that trend now but a bit early to tell - Think Loughman and Porter are both pretty decent prospects

Porter almost certainly the next LH to join the academy. Really like what i've seen from him.

Loughman a good LH prospect too, if he scrummage at TH effectively he could be a very good prospect there.

Tarf1234

Stainalert wrote: »

UCD possibly bucking that trend now but a bit early to tell - Think Loughman and Porter are both pretty decent prospects

I think there is question marks over Loughman but think he is an exciting prospect. With Healy, McGrath and Byrne all with Leinster and all relatively young, Porter may have to wait for a long time before he gets his break. Could easily lead to him moving. He is a huge man though and this will definitely help him in the short term.

unce09f

Pretty sure Jack Power hasn't left UCD, he is listed on their website as being in their senior squad.

unce09f

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I think there is question marks over Loughman but think he is an exciting prospect. With Healy, McGrath and Byrne all with Leinster and all relatively young, Porter may have to wait for a long time before he gets his break. Could easily lead to him moving. He is a huge man though and this will definitely help him in the short term.

question marks if he can hold up at TH but a lot of potential there and room for development.

Byrne's struggles with injury and Healy/McGrath being away a lot should help Dooley get some gametime.

Personally if I was Leinster i'd try to convert Ed Byrne to hooker, have the byrne twins there ready to go with Dundon retiring after this season and Tracy probably not being upto standard.

ArmchairQB

unce09f wrote: »

Porter almost certainly the next LH to join the academy. Really like what i've seen from him.

Loughman a good LH prospect too, if he scrummage at TH effectively he could be a very good prospect there.

Porter & Loughman both excellent, re developing Props the club game is great place for them to develop. I really wouldn't sign a prop into an academy until he has 2 years under his belt at a club. They play week in week out if injury free and really get a great schooling. All for them being part of the system in a province such as sub academy but they need to play AIL club rugby to truly develop & toughen up and gives them an incentive to continue developing

unce09f

Oisin Heffernan/Jeremy Loughman are likely to play a lot of club rugby over the next two/three years aswell as A rugby, assuming they stay healthy.
Andrew Porter is playing well for UCD this year and is still only under-20.
Peter Dooley has played a large amount of AIL rugby while in the academy too.
Ed Byrne has barely played for UCD due to injuries, although anytime he has been called upon by Leinster he has played pretty well.

Not sure if Hirst/RBF will be at leinster long term. Would be nice if RBF was a pro 12 standard TH. Hirst playing 3 for Clontarf these days too.

SA09

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Porter & Loughman both excellent, re developing Props the club game is great place for them to develop. I really wouldn't sign a prop into an academy until he has 2 years under his belt at a club. They play week in week out if injury free and really get a great schooling. All for them being part of the system in a province such as sub academy but they need to play AIL club rugby to truly develop & toughen up and gives them an incentive to continue developing

Agreed - I think AIL is perfect spot for front rows (more so than any other position) to develop when theyre younger and groom them to reach their potential in mid twenties for pro sides.. not props are freaks of nature like cian healy!!

unce09f

SA09 wrote: »

Agreed - I think AIL is perfect spot for front rows (more so than any other position) to develop when theyre younger and groom them to reach their potential in mid twenties for pro sides.. not props are freaks of nature like cian healy!!

props and locks anyway.

scrumhalves and outhalves to a degree too.

SA09

unce09f wrote: »

Oisin Heffernan/Jeremy Loughman are likely to play a lot of club rugby over the next two/three years aswell as A rugby, assuming they stay healthy.
Andrew Porter is playing well for UCD this year and is still only under-20.
Peter Dooley has played a large amount of AIL rugby while in the academy too.
Ed Byrne has barely played for UCD due to injuries, although anytime he has been called upon by Leinster he has played pretty well.

Not sure if Hirst/RBF will be at leinster long term. Would be nice if RBF was a pro 12 standard TH. Hirst playing 3 for Clontarf these days too.

To be fair to RBF, he has been a rock for Clontarf for years but he's not cut out for the next level up (only from what ive seen of one pro 12 game) - still great to see AIL players getting an opportunity and he's not too far off.

Hirst is prob too far down the pecking order - id imagine he will sign for someone else following his stint with leinster?

unce09f

SA09 wrote: »

To be fair to RBF, he has been a rock for Clontarf for years but he's not cut out for the next level up (only from what ive seen of one pro 12 game) - still great to see AIL players getting an opportunity and he's not too far off.

Hirst is prob too far down the pecking order - id imagine he will sign for someone else following his stint with leinster?

I don't expect either at Leinster past this season tbh.

Stainalert

Is it true Knockon.ie is calling it a day?

The Lost Sheep

Stainalert wrote: »

Is it true Knockon.ie is calling it a day?

Where is that coming from?

Stainalert

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Where is that coming from?

http://www.knockon.ie/2015/09/30/grassroots-funding-dramatically-cut/

See comments below the main article

Tarf1234

That's what it looks like. Not a bad article as well.

Leinster5

Max Deegan & James Ryan have joined Lansdowne. I imagine they aren't going their to play 20's rugby if both had nice offers from UCD.

Exposure to AIL straight out of school has massive benefits. Look at the good it did for the likes of Gilsenan, Timony, Oliver, Molony, Leavy etc. All of them played straight out of school and it helped them get club offers immediately if they didn't already have one lined up.

Stainalert

Ruddock must have promised Irish U20s !!

unce09f

Leinster5 wrote: »

Max Deegan & James Ryan have joined Lansdowne. I imagine they aren't going their to play 20's rugby if both had nice offers from UCD.

Exposure to AIL straight out of school has massive benefits. Look at the good it did for the likes of Gilsenan, Timony, Oliver, Molony, Leavy etc. All of them played straight out of school and it helped them get club offers immediately if they didn't already have one lined up.

I was told by someone very involved with Lansdowne that Ryan was with UCD.
Gilsenan/Molony and Leavy all joined UCD, it had little effect postive or negative on them making the academy as they were already in the academy setup.
Not sure it made a massive difference for Timoney/Oliver that he played AIL, as both failed to make the leinster academy.

The Lost Sheep

This weekends fixtures

1A
Ballynahinch v Old Belvedere
Cork Con v UCD
Galwegians v Lansdowne
Terenure v Garryowen
Young Munster v Clontarf
Think Con will be the only side to win at home this weekend. UCD have scored a lot in their opening 3 games but I just have a feeling Con may edge them this weekend
Don't see Belvo having too many issues against Ballynahinch and the same with Lansdowne in Galway. Garryowen and Terenure should be a super game. Don't see it being too high scoring a game but Garryowen to nick it.

1B
Belfast Harlequins v Buccaneers
Blackrock v St Mary's
Dolphin v Old Wesley
Dublin University v UL Bohs
Shannon v Ballymena

Blackrock and Marys should have a huge crowd with the gate receipts going to the Berkeley Fund, set up for those caught up in Balcony disaster in US in the summer. Wesley to win again. Think Trinity will edge Bohemians now their hangover from World Uni Cup is over...

2A
Banbridge v Nenagh
Cashel v Naas
Galway Corinthians v Thomond
Queens University v Skerries
UCC v Malone

Banbridge have started the season very well and as they've had a few more games may edge Nenagh who were impressive in their opening game last weekend but may just lose out to their hosts whove played that bit more and may be a bit sharper.
Could be an excellent game in Tipp based on performance so far for both Cashel and Naas. Home advantage to give it to Cashel. Just.
Corinthians have started poorly and wont have it any easier with Thomond visiting but I feel they may eke out a win to kick start their season. Skerries are bringing out a few younger players through this season but still have plenty of experience through their side and this experience should get them over the line against Queens

2B
City Of Derry v Armagh
Greystones v Seapoint
Highfield v Dungannon
MU Barnhall v Bective Rangers
Rainey OB v Sundays Well
Derry Armagh game the stand out here. Derry have started very well and a win here will really boost their promotion chances. Bective travel to Barnhall and look to have really upped their game from a very poor season last year and should get another win which would over take their points total from the entirety of last season in just 4 games. Dungannon also have improved a lot on last season but will find things very difficult against another side who are bringing through a good number of players from promising age grade sides, Highfield.


2C
Bruff v Kanturk
Old Crescent v Boyne
Sligo v Midleton
Tullamore v Navan
Wanderers v Dundalk

Dundalk were very good last season yet are 0/3 and travel to face Wanderers this weekend. Cant see a win here for the Louth side. Navan to just about edge Tullamore. Bruff to stay top and could win well against Kanturk. Bruff have had some very strong underage sides in recent years and are getting some of these through to their senior set up and could push back up the divisions again soon enough

phog

Stainalert wrote: »

Is it true Knockon.ie is calling it a day?

Yes, they've tweeted they're gone. Seem to closing down their Twitter account too. Big loss to domestic rugby.

Stainalert

1A
Ballynahinch v Old Belvedere - Hinch to get off the mark

Cork Con v UCD - Con if they can be a bit more than clinical than they have been

Galwegians v Lansdowne - Lansdowne but will be very tight

Terenure v Garryowen - Terenure have lots of injuries so going to say Garryowen

Young Munster v Clontarf - Clontarf to win well

1B
Belfast Harlequins v Buccaneers - Buccs

Blackrock v St Mary's - Think Marys will shade this

Dolphin v Old Wesley - Wesley BP win

Dublin University v UL Bohs - Trinity to get going

Shannon v Ballymena - Ballymena BP win

ArmchairQB

My Predictions

1A
Ballynahinch v Old Belvedere - Belvo
Cork Con v UCD - UCD
Galwegians v Lansdowne - Lansdowne
Terenure v Garryowen - Garryowen, heard Nure have a few injuries
Young Munster v Clontarf - Young Munster they badly need a good result

4 out 5 away teams to win


1B
Belfast Harlequins v Buccaneers - Harlequins
Blackrock v St Mary's - Great to see games like this again - Blackrock to shade it with home advantage
Dolphin v Old Wesley - Wesley
Dublin University v UL Bohs - Trinity in a close one home advantage to count
Shannon v Ballymena - Shannon in another tight one

4 out of 5 home teams to win

Tarf1234

1A
Ballynahinch v Old Belvedere - Hinch will probably lose a lot of players back to Ulster. Tight win for Hinch, very difficult to beat at home.

Cork Con v UCD - UCD should lose a good few back to Leinster. Con to win.

Galwegians v Lansdowne - Lansdowne win very tough test for wegians

Terenure v Garryowen - Terenure really appear to be struggling could be an away win

Young Munster v Clontarf - Tarf struggling in the scrum thus far and looked shaky at times last week, but think they will have enough to win.

1B
Belfast Harlequins v Buccaneers - Buccs

Blackrock v St Mary's - Going to back Rock here.

Dolphin v Old Wesley - Wesley comfortable and high score BP win

Dublin University v UL Bohs - Trinity are going to hit their straps sometime soon. Good recruitment this year. If they have a full team Trinity could win big.

Shannon v Ballymena - Ballymena going very well. Shannon casting a very limp shadow of their former selves. Sad to see, can't see the slide finishing this week. Ballymena easy BP win

The Lost Sheep

Stainalert wrote: »

http://www.knockon.ie/2015/09/30/grassroots-funding-dramatically-cut/

See comments below the main article

Great shame. Rob has a full article on finishing up now
http://www.knockon.ie/2015/10/01/knockon-is-closing-down/

Having writing quite a few articles for Rob over the years its a great shame himself and Alan have had to stop but if there's no return financially it makes things so difficult.

Anyone going to a game over the weekend?

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Great shame. Rob has a full article on finishing up now
http://www.knockon.ie/2015/10/01/knockon-is-closing-down/

Having writing quite a few articles for Rob over the years its a great shame himself and Alan have had to stop but if there's no return financially it makes things so difficult.

Anyone going to a game over the weekend?

Won't make any UBL this weekend unfortunately. Will be watching our 20s v Corinthians on Sunday though. Interested to see what Corinthians are like. I'd imagine they have lots of Connacht 20s lads but got hammered last week v trinity. I'm guessing they didn't have all their inter pros released.

The Lost Sheep

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Won't make any UBL this weekend unfortunately. Will be watching our 20s v Corinthians on Sunday though. Interested to see what Corinthians are like. I'd imagine they have lots of Connacht 20s lads but got hammered last week v trinity. I'm guessing they didn't have all their inter pros released.

NUIG-Corinthians wont have too many Connacht 20s. The Connacht 20s mainly made up of Buccs and Wegians

Bridge93

Going to Rock Mary's

The Lost Sheep

I am refereeing in Galway tomorrow and might go to Wegians or Corinthians game but probably wont go to either....

Braken

Tarf1234 wrote: »

1A


Shannon v Ballymena - Ballymena going very well. Shannon casting a very limp shadow of their former selves. Sad to see, can't see the slide finishing this week. Ballymena easy BP win

Shannon 19 Ballymena 22
Shannon need a defencive back line

The Lost Sheep

1A
Ballynahinch 24 Old Belvedere 34
Cork Constitution 19 UCD 19
Galwegians 41 Lansdowne 20
Terenure College 23 Garryowen 22
Young Munster 27 Clontarf 27
1B
Belfast Harlequins 20 Buccaneers 38
Blackrock College 19 St Marys College 23
Dolphin 19 Old Wesley 24
Dublin University 39 UL Bohs 21
Shannon 19 Ballymena 22
2A
Banbridge 27 Nenagh Ormond 13
Cashel 20 Naas 11
Galway Corinthians 19 Thomond 12
Queens University 19 Skerries 20
UCC 33 Malone 21
2B
City Of Derry 35 Armagh 17
Greystones 21 Seapoint 10
Highfield 36 Dungannon 14
MU Barnhall 21 Bective Rangers 16
Rainey OB 6 Sundays Well 10
2C
Bruff 23 Kanturk 31
Old Crescent 31 Boyne 16
Sligo 11 Midleton 12
Tullamore 24 Navan 8
Wanderers 30 Dundalk 10

The Lost Sheep

So any thoughts on todays games?
Dundalk doing very poor in 2C when they looked so strong at junior last season... and Old Crescent doing very well there....
Derry doing well in 2B with Highfield right behind them - think they'll do very well in the next few years based on some of their recent age grade sides....
Corinthians struggling in 2A. Nenagh also at bottom but played 2 games less than most sides... Cashel going very well..
Wesley looking very strong in 1B and Shannon seem to be struggling
Nice mix of sides at top of 1A. Tarf and Belvedere just ahead of chasing pack....

turtleshead

Was at YM v Clontarf, 2 points lost for YM were the better side for the majority of the game, missed tackles and poor kick chase gifted Clontarf tries in the first half, joey carbery was outstanding for Clontarf as was Mick McGrath, YM scrum half looks as great signing, can see him being involved for Munster at some stage this season, played currie cup last season and is over looking for a pro contract. Dave O'Mahoney also excellent would imagine he is in line for an academy spot . YM just lacking a bit in the centre, Gearoid lyons due back in the next couple of weeks and is sure will make a difference in both defence and attack.

The Lost Sheep

turtleshead wrote: »

Was at YM v Clontarf, 2 points lost for YM were the better side for the majority of the game, missed tackles and poor kick chase gifted Clontarf tries in the first half, joey carbery was outstanding for Clontarf as was Mick McGrath, YM scrum half looks as great signing, can see him being involved for Munster at some stage this season, played currie cup last season and is over looking for a pro contract. Dave O'Mahoney also excellent would imagine he is in line for an academy spot. YM just lacking a bit in the centre, Gearoid lyons due back in the next couple of weeks and is sure will make a difference in both defence and attack.

From what I heard from people at game, parents and people leaving ground after I wouldn't agree with 2 points lost for Munsters... You would expect McGrath to stand out as he's a pro player. Dave O Mahony is definitely in line for the academy

YM could really do with SOL in the centre but he had to move to Connacht club as per his contract.....

turtleshead

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

From what I heard from people at game, parents and people leaving ground after I wouldn't agree with 2 points lost for Munsters... You would expect McGrath to stand out as he's a pro player. Dave O Mahony is definitely in line for the academy

YM could really do with SOL in the centre but he had to move to Connacht club as per his contract.....

Depends on what way you look at it, they were 21-10 down at one stage, if you take that angle it's not 2 points lost, however to be on top for most of the game and 3 points up with 2 mins to go I look at it as 2 points due to poor game management.

Both Dan goggin and gearoid coming back in the next month will make a huge difference, might see Dave O'Mahoney move to out half also.

unce09f

Jack Power still with UCD, started for them yesterday at fullback.

Tarf1234

turtleshead wrote: »

Was at YM v Clontarf, 2 points lost for YM were the better side for the majority of the game, missed tackles and poor kick chase gifted Clontarf tries in the first half, joey carbery was outstanding for Clontarf as was Mick McGrath, YM scrum half looks as great signing, can see him being involved for Munster at some stage this season, played currie cup last season and is over looking for a pro contract. Dave O'Mahoney also excellent would imagine he is in line for an academy spot . YM just lacking a bit in the centre, Gearoid lyons due back in the next couple of weeks and is sure will make a difference in both defence and attack.

Heard Tarf were very poor, happy enough with a draw down there never an easy place to go at all. Everyone was raving about Joey Carberry over the weekend. Has quickly become a favourite, I am seriously impressed with him.

Tarf1234

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

1A
Ballynahinch 24 Old Belvedere 34
Cork Constitution 19 UCD 19
Galwegians 41 Lansdowne 20
Terenure College 23 Garryowen 22
Young Munster 27 Clontarf 27
1B
Belfast Harlequins 20 Buccaneers 38
Blackrock College 19 St Marys College 23
Dolphin 19 Old Wesley 24
Dublin University 39 UL Bohs 21
Shannon 19 Ballymena 22
2A
Banbridge 27 Nenagh Ormond 13
Cashel 20 Naas 11
Galway Corinthians 19 Thomond 12
Queens University 19 Skerries 20
UCC 33 Malone 21
2B
City Of Derry 35 Armagh 17
Greystones 21 Seapoint 10
Highfield 36 Dungannon 14
MU Barnhall 21 Bective Rangers 16
Rainey OB 6 Sundays Well 10
2C
Bruff 23 Kanturk 31
Old Crescent 31 Boyne 16
Sligo 11 Midleton 12
Tullamore 24 Navan 8
Wanderers 30 Dundalk 10

Huge result for wegains. Don't think anyone was expecting that, will probsbly be the biggest shock result of the season

Tarf1234

On a separate point, has anyone heard anything about the Lansdowne pitch being set on fire? Horrific to see. Saw a picture and looks like someone threw some petrol on it. I'd imagine it will cost a lot to fix.

ArmchairQB

Galwegians definitely with the result of the week would have had that as a banker for Lansdowne, great to see league so competitive. Lot of draws last few weeks. UCD going nicely and may well be contenders this year.

Heard there was some damage to Lansdowne pitch apparently some gobs**tes set fire to padding at side by pouring petrol over it. Not sure how much damage to pitch.

Also saw an interesting wteet doing the rounds of Wesley's overseas player being presented with a new car from a Ford dealership. That can't be legal, can it??

Tarf1234

Disgusting to see. Can't understand mindless w*nkers like that.

Wegians must be very good. Looking forward to seeing them. Great to have Connacht represented in 1A again. Will defo make the trip down this year

ArmchairQB

Galwegians going well will be a big blow to Buccs who tend to get a good portion of Connacht academy players. That will change if Wegians continue their great form of recent sesons