Bees in my roof!

sean61

Hi everyone. I don't know much about bees so I thought this might be a good place to ask for advice. Afte hearing some funny noises the past few nights, I've figured out there's a decent sized honeybee nest in my roof. Its a flat roof extension so they are literally buzzing away over my head as I'm typing this! Is there any way to relocate the bees without killing them?

bpmurray

Honeybees are protected - you're not allowed to kill them. It's a relatively straightforward matter to move them, particularly if it's soon after they move in.

I imagine your roof is over your house (or shed) but where is your house? You haven't given a location. If you do that, we can find a local beekeeper who'll be happy to remove them. And probably for free!

allifin

Hi Sean, my husband and I are beekeepers - where are you located?

sean61

Thanks for the replies. I'm in the galway/tuam area. What's involved in relocating them? It's a flat roof so there is no attic where the bees are. If you needed to gain access to the actual hive, the facia would have to be removed and god knows what else. I wouldn't really have a problem with that but the landlord might have a different view of things! I'd say the nest is there a while because i often found dead bees on the windowsill nearest to the enterance. There is also expanding foam in the roof where it looks like someone tried to block them off before i moved in. Taking that into acount I'd say they could be there for years but are gaining in size this year for some reason

Hillybilly4

Try a post on one of the FB pages and you'll probably be able to locate a local beekeeper who could help you.
Maybe
https://www.facebook.com/TribesBeekeepersAssociation
or
https://www.facebook.com/fibka?fref=ts
or if you're not on FB call your nearest FIBKA association
http://www.irishbeekeeping.ie/index.php/find-an-association/connaught

marizpan

I got a call out to your area with a similar compliant last year as I live nearby Turned out to be bumblebees in a flat roof extension.

Are you sure they are honey bees?
Can they be accessed? Most landlords would prefer to seal them up than bear the cost of repairing the roof.

sean61

marizpan wrote: »

I got a call out to your area with a similar compliant last year as I live nearby Turned out to be bumblebees in a flat roof extension.

Are you sure they are honey bees?
Can they be accessed? Most landlords would prefer to seal them up than bear the cost of repairing the roof.

I'm not entirely sure if they are honey bees but they aren't bumblebees. Access would at least require removing that section of facia. I told the landlady yesterday and she didn't seem too bothered about doing anything so I'm pretty sure she would be happy to just seal them up. I'd gladly leave them there myself if they weren't so loud over my bed. Here is a pic of the entrance

marizpan

They are indeed honey bees.
Can they be accessed without causing much damage?

ZiabR

Fair play OP for coming on here and asking what to do, alot of people would just seal it up and forget about them. I myself would try to save them at all costs as they are protected, not to mention how important they are.

Hard to make out from that photo what kind of roof it is or how you would get at them. Any other pictures?

sean61

I don't want to kill them either. If it were my own house I would happily do some damage to remove them. I have to be clear though, the home owner isn't going to do any damage to get them out safely. I can see that they already tried to block them off before to kill them. By the looks of it, the felt is overlapping the facia so there is no easy way to get at them. Here is a pic or two...

sean61

And a video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJglPpiwAZM&feature=youtu.be

marizpan

If you figure out a solution, I'll gladly take the bees as I'm only 20 mins away.
Looks like a tricky one in fairness

sean61

marizpan wrote: »

If you figure out a solution, I'll gladly take the bees as I'm only 20 mins away.
Looks like a tricky one in fairness

Thanks for the offer. I'll have to put my thinking cap on!

Is there any way to make life "uncomfortable" for the bees and persuade them to move?

marizpan

Not really as you would need to take the queen and brood for them to abandon the roof.

If a beekeeper was to come, and assuming they had access. They would find the queen and remove her along with frames of brood into a hive and leave that near the site for a few days until the bees all decided that that was their new home. And then seal up the hive at dusk when there are no flying bees and move the hive from the property.

SC Kevin

There are a few ways you could try..

Option 1) drill a small hole to the side of the entrance, say about half a foot. As long as you get in to the colony, thats what you need. You then put in an old cloth covered with "Bee-Quick" The bees absolutely hate the smell of this stuff and will pour out of the entrance to get away from it (so ive been told) You can get a bottle from the UK for about €20

Not sure if this you work as you said that the owner doesnt want any damage done.

Option 2) Make your self a bee-vac and stick the hose part in to the entrance, you will suck up most of the bees and maybe even get the Queen, job done. You will of course be leaving behind the comb so you will need to seal up the entrance to stop any other swarms moving in

Option 3) You could do a things called a "trap-out". Basically you put a bit of mesh over the entrance in the shape of a funnel with a small opening at the end, the bees find their way out but cant get back in, you then set up a nuc with the entrance of the nuc right next to the entrance of the colony. You put in a frame of eggs in to the nuc. The idea is that the bees that cant get back in to the roof, will be attracted to the smell of the eggs/larvae and will go in to the nuc to look after them, over time, more and more bees will will go in to the nuc and they will eventually build their own QC.

When the Queen emerges, mates and starts laying, you will by this time have most, if not, nearly all of the bees from the roof in the nuc.

The bees in the roof will realise that their numbers are falling and will eventually abscond as there wont be much left to look after the eggs that the Queen will be laying, you can then seal up the roof and take the nuc away.

As you can probably tell, this will take about 4-8 weeks to do so its a long term project! haha

Good luck with what ever you choose to do

bpmurray

There are a few ways to fix this:

• The direct way is to remove the soffit (or part of it) and remove everything, cleaning out all the old comb and scrubbing off all the propolis. This is the correct long-term approach.
• You can put a one-way escape, typically a long tube of mesh that covers the exits at one end and that ends in a narrow exit a a couple of feet away. The bees leave & can't get back in. If there's a nuc with some brood comb in it as a bait, the bees will move in. As more bees leave the roof, they'll join the crowd in the nuc. Eventually all the bees will leave - the queen will either die, or she'll join them in the nuc. At this point, remove the one-way escape, and the bees will steal all the honey from the roof, reducing the attractiveness to other swarms. This process takes about 6 weeks.
• Finally, you can just seal the lot up. This is a common approach, and it kills all the bees in a couple of weeks.

The main disadvantages of the second & third methods is that this is a soffit that is clearly not going to be easy to close up - there are obviously plenty of places where the bees can get in (they only need 8mm). So I would strongly recommend the first choice.

BTW, Bee-Quick won't drive them out if they have brood - that stuff is used to clear supers of bees when harvesting honey, not to clear brood nests.

sean61

No easy method so I take it! I'm gonna get my cousin, who is a roofer, to take a look over the weeekend. He wouldn't charge anything to remove a portion of the facia if its easy enough to do. Making a trap out will be plan b.

Is there anywhere you can hire those protective suits? I presume he doesn't want to be stung to death taking off the facia lol

patoinsf

Where exactly are you Sean I am in Moycullen and may be able to look at them for you. if you can hear them over your bed it might be easier to remove a small piece of the ceiling than mess with the outside.

Spody

I just came across this post and I was wondering how the OP got on as I have the same problem - honey bee hive in the flat roof of my house extension, pretty serious.

I am based in north east Dublin city.

Any ideas?

sean61

Spody wrote: »

I just came across this post and I was wondering how the OP got on as I have the same problem - honey bee hive in the flat roof of my house extension, pretty serious.

I am based in north east Dublin city.

Any ideas?

Well mine are stil there anyway. Probably more hassle than its worth removing them but they are REALLY loud with this fine weather

Spody

sean61 wrote: »

Well mine are stil there anyway. Probably more hassle than its worth removing them but they are REALLY loud with this fine weather

sean61,thanks for answering.


I can hear them too but not too loudly. I am a bit afraid of the weight of honey etc over the ceiling as I do not know how the extension was constructed - it was there when I first bought the house.

Problem for me is that the bee's entrance to the hive overhangs the party wall of my neighbour's back garden, not mine, and it is causing her problems.

Since the bee's entrance to the hive is over her back garden I was unaware of the problem until the bees swarmed last Sunday into my back garden. They left on Tuesday. I didn't mind the swarm but I am bothered by the nest as I cannot leave it there indefinitely.

brianmc

Spody wrote: »

sean61,thanks for answering.


I can hear them too but not too loudly. I am a bit afraid of the weight of honey etc over the ceiling as I do not know how the extension was constructed - it was there when I first bought the house.

Problem for me is that the bee's entrance to the hive overhangs the party wall of my neighbour's back garden, not mine, and it is causing her problems.

Since the bee's entrance to the hive is over her back garden I was unaware of the problem until the bees swarmed last Sunday into my back garden. They left on Tuesday. I didn't mind the swarm but I am bothered by the nest as I cannot leave it there indefinitely.

Just a heads up that you may have a few (or a whole bunch) more smaller swarms to come over the next week or so Spody.

They shouldn't be much to worry about but they will be looking for another cavity somewhere.

As the owner of the house I'd say you should probably bite the bullet at some stage and get it opened up and removed. While the colony that's there right now might not live forever, the existing comb, honey etc will attract in replacement colonies so it effectively becomes a permanent feature.

You could try the Fingal Beekeepers association to see if anyone is interested...

http://www.irishbeekeeping.ie/index.php/find-an-association/leinster

Spody

brianmc wrote: »

Just a heads up that you may have a few (or a whole bunch) more smaller swarms to come over the next week or so Spody.

They shouldn't be much to worry about but they will be looking for another cavity somewhere.

As the owner of the house I'd say you should probably bite the bullet at some stage and get it opened up and removed. While the colony that's there right now might not live forever, the existing comb, honey etc will attract in replacement colonies so it effectively becomes a permanent feature.

You could try the Fingal Beekeepers association to see if anyone is interested...

BrianMc, thanks for your comments.

I am aware that there probably will be further swarm(s) and I am not too bothered about that. The last swarm left to nest somewhere else - possibly causing a problem for some one else in the neighbourhood. But as you say leaving the colony there is not a long term solution and I imagine that I am going to have to get either the roof or the ceiling of my kitchen opened up to remove the colony - not a pleasant thought!

But I have two questions about that:

1. when should I do it - right away, or maybe wait until say late winter / early spring when most of the honey should be gone and the bees will be weaker?

2. who will do it? I imagine a builder is not going to be keen on working a ceiling housing a bee colony and I imagine a bee keeper is not going to be skilled at opening a ceiling.

Thanks to you for pointing to the Fingal bee keepers, I will get in touch with them.

solargain

Get the beekeeper and builder to work together . Leaving honey comb in the roof will draw rats

brianmc

Spody wrote: »

BrianMc, thanks for your comments.

I am aware that there probably will be further swarm(s) and I am not too bothered about that. The last swarm left to nest somewhere else - possibly causing a problem for some one else in the neighbourhood. But as you say leaving the colony there is not a long term solution and I imagine that I am going to have to get either the roof or the ceiling of my kitchen opened up to remove the colony - not a pleasant thought!

But I have two questions about that:

1. when should I do it - right away, or maybe wait until say late winter / early spring when most of the honey should be gone and the bees will be weaker?

2. who will do it? I imagine a builder is not going to be keen on working a ceiling housing a bee colony and I imagine a bee keeper is not going to be skilled at opening a ceiling.

Thanks to you for pointing to the Fingal bee keepers, I will get in touch with them.

As solargain says... get them to work together...

You may need to let the beekeeper break their way in and remove the colony and then get a builder to patch it up again.

Unfortunately a beekeeper likely isn't insured to go tearing your roof apart so there would have to be a bit of understanding and trust as to where the responsibility lies for possible damage, injury, etc.

The colony would probably be more attractive to the beekeeper at the moment rather than during the winter. The colony can recover at the moment from being ripped out of their current spot into a hive. Not so much in the middle of winter. Removing all the comb will be just as tricky in any season.

Spody

brianmc wrote: »

As solargain says... get them to work together...

You may need to let the beekeeper break their way in and remove the colony and then get a builder to patch it up again.

Unfortunately a beekeeper likely isn't insured to go tearing your roof apart so there would have to be a bit of understanding and trust as to where the responsibility lies for possible damage, injury, etc.

The colony would probably be more attractive to the beekeeper at the moment rather than during the winter. The colony can recover at the moment from being ripped out of their current spot into a hive. Not so much in the middle of winter. Removing all the comb will be just as tricky in any season.

Thanks. The problem now is that I would be much better placed financially to pay for having my kitchen roof pulled apart and put back together again in a few months than right now! But you cannot solve that for me.

Thanks for your attention and advice.

sean61

OK I've had to put this on the long finger due to having surgery but still need to get it sorted. A builder relative of mine was saying the honey will eventually seep through the ceiling and then I'll have bigger problems.

Making a trap out seems like the best option. I could just make the trap and let them die outside but I'd rather have the nuc for them to move into. However that's not gonna happen unless someone knows where I'd get one very cheap. Is there any budget boxes available or does anyone have an old one they aren't using? You would be welcome to keep the bees afterwards.

Also, as the entrance is quiet high up, could i attach a length of pipe to the cone to make the trap exit near the nuc? I could put the box on the flat roof or on the ground then.

welsummer

I have removed bees a lot in these situations. we usually cut a square out of the plaster slab in the ceiling below and get at the from inside the room. then when all the comb and bees are removed the house owners get a tradesman to seal the entrance up from the inside with expandable foam and re-slab the section of ceiling. its the simplest solution. I am based in Dublin .

sean61

welsummer wrote: »

I have removed bees a lot in these situations. we usually cut a square out of the plaster slab in the ceiling below and get at the from inside the room. then when all the comb and bees are removed the house owners get a tradesman to seal the entrance up from the inside with expandable foam and re-slab the section of ceiling. its the simplest solution. I am based in Dublin .

That is one big hive! I actually spoke to a local beekeeper on the phone today and he recommended leaving them until spring when there are less bees in the hive. He is also trying a trapout over the winter with his own bees to see if it works. If all else fails I can cut them out of the ceiling in spring i suppose

davidk1394

Uncle of mine used a sort of organic way. He had a hive of wasps in his porch. It's sort of crude but the wasps were gone in a few hours. He put urine in a bowl and placed beside the hive in the roof and they were gone in about 4hours

Spody

sean61 wrote: »

That is one big hive! I actually spoke to a local beekeeper on the phone today and he recommended leaving them until spring when there are less bees in the hive. He is also trying a trapout over the winter with his own bees to see if it works. If all else fails I can cut them out of the ceiling in spring i suppose

I was thinking of leaving it to next spring.

I am very tight for cash right now and the expense of this scares me. My financial situation is improving and I have a good expectation to be in a much better position next spring.

Does anyone else with experience of this situation have useful comments about leaving them there to next spring? Thanks