Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread Part 2

jobbridge4life

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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There is a lot more to it than that.

Fred Swanson

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aloyisious

There's the question of his legal team. Barristers usually have juniors, solicitors, clerks, law-library researchers etc on their teams. I can't quite see them doing all this work for free (if they ultimately lose) when they know there is no gold for them at the end of this particular rainbow (pardon the pun).

Fred Swanson

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efb

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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That's gone too when you are out of bankrupsy you can

Fred Swanson

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pl4ichjgy17zwd

Same-sex marriage legislation passes all stages in Oireachtas

"Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald said the first same-sex marriages will take place by mid-November."

efb

Celebrating in The Houses of the Oireachtas

aloyisious

Twas a great day, watching the final debate, withdrawal of amendments etc.

efb

We were in the AV room! It was great heckling Ró!!!

aloyisious

efb wrote: »

We were in the AV room! It was great heckling Ró!!!

Ditto, got away with a lot of unparliamentary expression when the gent in the back row gave his input. T'was like the Waldorf and Statler show. Nice work by the Presidential Commission

Niemoj

I know this thread hasn't been posted on in ages but I wasn't sure whether to create a new thread but Slovenia has repealed the same sex marriage law brought into force in March.

What a sad day for Slovenians.

Banbha32

Speaking of Slovenia, one of the comments on the Journal article mentioned a Slovenian comedian who basically came out after the result and said

"Slovenia is so far behind Ireland that we are expecting our potato famine in about 5 years"

StewartGriffin

So today is the day Joan and her Labour Party colleagues reap their reward for putting this historic referendum before the people.

I suppose she could still try for the Aras in a few years.

Baggy Trousers

It was probably the only real achievement of the current government. The achievement being that they didn't fcuk it up.

L.Jenkins

I wonder is the Iona Institute and Conservative far right still concerning themselves with the Children or have they moved on to another minority they can try to oppress?

Menas

Itzy wrote: »

I wonder is the Iona Institute and Conservative far right still concerning themselves with the Children or have they moved on to another minority they can try to oppress?

Abortion will be their next cause.

WoolyJumper

Itzy wrote: »

I wonder is the Iona Institute and Conservative far right still concerning themselves with the Children or have they moved on to another minority they can try to oppress?

Funny they have nothing to say about the number of homeless children and children living in poverty in Ireland at the moment....

jaykay74

StewartGriffin wrote: »

So today is the day Joan and her Labour Party colleagues reap their reward for putting this historic referendum before the people.

That issue will be far from peoples minds when they vote tbh.

Duggy747

Bit unfortunate that people still have great resentment and anger over this referendum passing. I'm still frequently hearing from people how society will be fúcked because of "the queers"

Recently had someone genuinely confused as to why I even voted. "But the gays have no impact your life, why did you even bother!?!"

PopePalpatine

Itzy wrote: »

I wonder is the Iona Institute and Conservative far right still concerning themselves with the Children or have they moved on to another minority they can try to oppress?

Does defending discrimination by public schools against children of the wrong religion count?

spurious

Born - evil
Unborn - good

arayess

spurious wrote: »

Born - evil
Unborn - good

your post is idiotic.

StewartGriffin

arayess wrote: »

your post is idiotic.

Spurious even.

aloyisious

spurious wrote: »

Born - evil
Unborn - good

Summat to do with original sin? - (even though that concept may be gone)

aloyisious

Menas wrote: »

Abortion will be their next cause.

Is so. David Quinn and the gay bearded gent who opposed marriage equality have been touring the country with other like-minded people of the Pro-life group arranging for local opposition to stop any attempt to repeal the 8th amendment.

Billy86

aloyisious wrote: »

Is so. David Quinn and the gay bearded gent who opposed marriage equality have been touring the country in need of some attention and maybe a hug.

Fixed that for ya.

alan partridge aha

Menas wrote: »

Abortion will be their next cause.

As it is yours

colossus-x

Duggy747 wrote: »

Bit unfortunate that people still have great resentment and anger over this referendum passing. I'm still frequently hearing from people how society will be fúcked because of "the queers"

Resentment and Anger? I've over the moon about it. ;D

marienbad

colossus-x wrote: »

Duggy747 wrote: »

Bit unfortunate that people still have great resentment and anger over this referendum passing. I'm still frequently hearing from people how society will be fúcked because of "the queers"

Resentment and Anger? I've over the moon about it.

So why isn't Renua's vote bigger then ?

L.Jenkins

WoolyJumper wrote: »

Funny they have nothing to say about the number of homeless children and children living in poverty in Ireland at the moment....

I love how it seems to be a recurring theme, especially among similar groups. Instead of concerning themselves with those who actually need help, they dip the wick where it's not wanted.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Does defending discrimination by public schools against children of the wrong religion count?

Yes it does count and I do hope that one day a TD may take exception to religious patronage in schools and does something about it, forcibly removing the church from schools if needs must.

alan partridge aha

marienbad wrote: »

colossus-x wrote: »

So why isn't Renua's vote bigger then ?

Was Renua position to vote against gay marriage ?

PopePalpatine

alan partridge aha wrote: »

marienbad wrote: »

Was Renua position to vote against gay marriage ?

Renua was created because Lucinda and a few other FG TDs threw their toys out of the pram over legislation for the X Case. It's not that much of a leap to assume they're aiming for the conservative Catholic vote - hell, David Quinn was pushing them in his column yesterday.

alan partridge aha

PopePalpatine wrote: »

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Renua was created because Lucinda and a few over legislation for the X Case. It's not that much of a leap to assume they're aiming for the conservative Catholic vote - hell, David Quinn was pushing them in his column yesterday.

OH really, I thought the leader was pro gay marriage(said so when asked) and the President(EH) was pro choice. So leap all ya want.

other FG TDs threw their toys out of the pram That's called principle.

PopePalpatine

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Oh really, I thought the leader was pro gay marriage(said so when asked) and the President(EH) was pro choice. So leap all ya want.

It is possible (although IMO inconsistent) for someone to be pro-marriage equality yet anti-choice, I don't recall Peadar Toibin of SF opposing the referendum despite being SF's only TD to oppose legislating for the X Case. I'm on my phone right now, but once I get back to my laptop I'll dig up some opinion columns supportive of Renua from the Legatus Lackeys.

Billy86

alan partridge aha wrote: »

PopePalpatine wrote: »

OH really, I thought the leader was pro gay marriage(said so when asked) and the President(EH) was pro choice. So leap all ya want.

other FG TDs threw their toys out of the pram That's called principle.

Can't blame them too much, seeing as how only a few years ago Lucinda was quite clearly and openly against SSM. The earliest I can find on her changing to pro-SSM is from the months leading up to the referendum, where it was clear as day to everyone that is was going to pass with ease.

alan partridge aha

Billy86 wrote: »

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Can't blame them too much, seeing as how only a few years ago Lucinda was quite clearly and openly against SSM. The earliest I can find on her changing to pro-SSM is from the months leading up to the referendum, where it was clear as day to everyone that is was going to pass with ease.

As was Enda and others.

alan partridge aha

Billy86 wrote: »

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Can't blame them too much, seeing as how only a few years ago Lucinda was quite clearly and openly against SSM. The earliest I can find on her changing to pro-SSM is from the months leading up to the referendum, where it was clear as day to everyone that is was going to pass with ease.

As was Enda and others until the juggernaut got going.
Internationally Obama and Hillary were anti SSM until they got "better informed". They are hardly conservative on social issues.

galljga1

marienbad wrote: »

colossus-x wrote: »

So why isn't Renua's vote bigger then ?

Because they are muppets.

aloyisious

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

As was Enda and others until the juggernaut got going.
Internationally Obama and Hillary were anti SSM until they got "better informed". They are hardly conservative on social issues.

More a case of the IRISH leaders following the crowd, as usual. One of my county's TD's was an out and out opponent of civil marriage being extended in law to LGBT people 'til he saw that the referendum was most likely to be passed, then mentioned that he was NOT really opposed to it after all. He's now a RENUA TD, after losing the FG whip for opposing the POLDPA bill.

alan partridge aha

Agree with you 100%, but it is not just an Irish thing

PopePalpatine

alan partridge aha wrote: »

PopePalpatine wrote: »

[Lucinda and] other FG TDs threw their toys out of the pram

That's called principle.

Isn't it funny that "principle" didn't come into it when slashing benefits and supports for carers and the disabled?

Anyway, I'm on my laptop now, so as promised here's David Quinn, Breda O'Brien et al. promoting Renua:
27/2/16 - Quinn plans on giving his 1st preference to his local Renua candidate for best resembling the "Christian Democrat" ideology.
8/1/16 - Quinn calls on "pro-life" supporters to vote for Renua.
20/2/16 - O'Brien recommends "principled" candidates - i.e. "pro-life" ones, with a nod to Lucinda (despite claiming her article isn't an endorsement of Renua), and she also cries out for a "pro-life party" in her column on the 9th of January, with another nod to Lucinda and Renua.

alan partridge aha

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Isn't it funny that "principle" didn't come into it when slashing benefits and supports for carers and the disabled?

Anyway, I'm on my laptop now, so as promised here's David Quinn, Breda O'Brien et al. promoting Renua:
27/2/16 - Quinn plans on giving his 1st preference to his local Renua candidate for best resembling the "Christian Democrat" ideology.
8/1/16 - Quinn calls on "pro-life" supporters to vote for Renua.
20/2/16 - O'Brien recommends "principled" candidates - i.e. "pro-life" ones, with a nod to Lucinda (despite claiming her article isn't an endorsement of Renua), and she also cries out for a "pro-life party" in her column on the 9th of January, with another nod to Lucinda and Renua.

I never said he didn't recommend them, what I said still stands unless you can show otherwise with your tireless researching.

alan partridge aha

My sister is disabled and my mother is a carer so I know all about cuts, however Lucinda could have been sitting pretty in a top job for FG, instead she decided that she could not support the Government and that showed "balls".

Bannasidhe

alan partridge aha wrote: »

My sister is disabled and my mother is a carer so I know all about cuts, however Lucinda could have been sitting pretty in a top job for FG, instead she decided that she could not support the Government and that showed "balls".

What cuts have you personally endured that makes you such an expert?
Seems to me it's your sister and mother who know all about cuts tbh.

By that logic I know all about heterosexual marriage break-ups as both my mother and sister have experienced this...my brother too...and my father... I should be on the telly talking about this as I am such an 'expert'...

Lucinda decided that she disagreed with the express will of the people as expressed in a referendum. That's not 'balls' (or even 'ovaries') that is ego and arrogance.

aloyisious

Does anyone know if agnostic citizens can civil-marry here? I assume they can even if they might not want to because of marriage's historical link with religion. I had a "eureka" moment last night with that as the possible "checkmate" response - proving that civil marriage has been a separate ceremony to religious marriage to those of a belief that marriage is a religious rite and not proper for LGBT folk - as civil marriage has been open to agnostic citizens for years.

Fred Swanson

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alan partridge aha

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What cuts have you personally endured that makes you such an expert?
Seems to me it's your sister and mother who know all about cuts tbh.

By that logic I know all about heterosexual marriage break-ups as both my mother and sister have experienced this...my brother too...and my father... I should be on the telly talking about this as I am such an 'expert'...

Lucinda decided that she disagreed with the express will of the people as expressed in a referendum. That's not 'balls' (or even 'ovaries') that is ego and arrogance.

I live beside my mother, I call in everyday and help them, I take my sister from time to time to give Ma a break. So yes I am an expert on it.

Lucinda voting against the government knowing full well it would be detrimental to her political career. Others thought about it but would rather keep their cushy jobs so they voted for it. It''s not aggorance it's voting with your conscience.

You can agree or disagree with her but at least in this instance it showed 'ovaries'.

The Randy Riverbeast

aloyisious wrote: »

Does anyone know if agnostic citizens can civil-marry here? I assume they can even if they might not want to because of marriage's historical link with religion. I had a "eureka" moment last night with that as the possible "checkmate" response - proving that civil marriage has been a separate ceremony to religious marriage to those of a belief that marriage is a religious rite and not proper for LGBT folk - as civil marriage has been open to agnostic citizens for years.

As bad as Ireland can be at separation of church and state it isn't that bad thankfully. That's why whatever the Catholic church thought was worthless, we already allow Muslims, Jews, atheists and even Catholics get married in a civil marriage which isn't even really marriage to them.

As far the the church was concerned they didn't want gay people to pretend they were married, according to their rules it isn't really marriage if it wasn't done by them.

Bannasidhe

alan partridge aha wrote: »

I live beside my mother, I call in everyday and help them, I take my sister from time to time to give Ma a break. So yes I am an expert on it.

Lucinda voting against the government knowing full well it would be detrimental to her political career. Others thought about it but would rather keep their cushy jobs so they voted for it. It''s not aggorance it's voting with your conscience.

You can agree or disagree with her but at least in this instance it showed 'ovaries'.

My point is that until it is 'you' directly impacted then your experience of the cuts is secondary not personal. I see homeless people everyday. I have become very friendly with those I meet on the way home from work everyday. I help out with money, coffee, sleeping bags etc but that does not make me an expert on being homeless because I have a home. My understanding is limited by what I personally experience.
The point being you have not personally suffered any cuts - you mother and sister have and you are claiming their experience as your own which imho is a bit arrogant.

Speaking of arrogance - Lucinda. Lucinda was not 'going against the government' - she was blatantly attempting to subvert the democratic process by going against the express will of the people.
There. was. a. referendum. (and another one but the people didn't change their minds).

No politician has the right to say 'I, personally, don't like the decision of this referendum so I refuse to implement it.' Her objection was not to the specific legislation which would be a different thing - her objection was to the existence of the legislation in the first place. She did not want the decision of the people acted upon. Lucinda doesn't get to make that call.