The New Voter - Can we keep her for the general election?

Black Menorca

The marriage referendum has brought out tens of thousands of new voters from the woodwork.

This has to be celebrated, well at least I celebrate it as a No voter.

Its wonderful to see genuine engagement in political affairs.

The challenge now is how can we keep their attention as we approach the General election next year?

Harnessing this mass of new energy could revolutionise the way we do politics.

Or, will they disappear again and turn their back on their civic duty?

johnnyskeleton

Mod: Moved from Main Politics forum

Not a NSA agent

I doubt it.

With the GE Im in a situation of trying to pick the person I dislike the least, I doubt Im alone. Theres no drive to achieve something.

Hilly Bill

Why is this new voter a female? There goes the equality in day 1 .

Black Menorca

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Why is this new voter a female? There goes the equality in day 1 .

I think you'll find far more females came out to vote first time round yesterday than lads. But I may be wrong.

pmasterson95

A normal election isn't as cool. Normal service will resume now that this is over.

Sand

Referendums tend to give people a say in how things are done in Ireland. General elections simply don't. Until the Dail is actually meaningful its going to be hard to motivate people to vote for it.

Black Menorca

Sand wrote: »

Referendums tend to give people a say in how things are done in Ireland. General elections simply don't. Until the Dail is actually meaningful its going to be hard to motivate people to vote for it.

That is a common misconception.

Voting in a GE has far more consequence for peoples' lives than a single issue referendum.

johnnyskeleton

Black Menorca wrote: »

That is a common misconception.

Voting in a GE has far more consequence for peoples' lives than a single issue referendum.

I suppose the perception is that in a general election their vote doesnt count, that the established parties dont speak for them etc but that they can actually make a real difference and be heard in a referendum.

So while you are right that the general election has more effect on peoples lives, they just dont feel as engaged in a GE as they do in a referendum

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Black Menorca

But isn't this an opportunity to engage with at least a cohort of these voters?

Educate them in the mechanics of the democratic process?

P_1

Sadly I'd tend to class most of the candidates in a GE and their parties as unworthy of my vote, hence rather than picking the best of a bad bunch I'd spoil my vote.

Saipanne

I doubt it. Voting for most TDs is fairly pointless, as most have absolutely no power, including most of the ones in government.

Black Menorca

But your everyday life is directly affected by the votes cast in every GE.

Your vote goes toward forming an administration that sets policies on economic and social issues.

Why would you go out of your way to deny yourself your say in that formation?

echo beach

Black Menorca wrote: »

The challenge now is how can we keep their attention as we approach the General election next year?

Harnessing this mass of new energy could revolutionise the way we do politics.

Or, will they disappear again and turn their back on their civic duty?

We probably have to look at the language used by those of us coming from a different perspective. I doubt if many of the new voters see voting in the way I do as a 'civic duty', a right and a privilege. If you want to get their attention the first thing is to ditch the idea of 'duty' and perhaps try to have an idea of 'participation'.

The phenomenon of mass participation of young people, and of those from less affluent areas where there is usually a low turnout, was first seen in the Scottish independence referendum and did carry on to increased turnout in the GE. Without the SNP, it will be more difficult to keep the interest here but anti-austerity and protest candidates will have an impact.
What both cases showed was that when people can see the direct affect of their vote on something that matters to them and where the result is expected to be fairly close with each vote important then they will respond. A GE will decide who runs the country for the next 5 years. If we were asked that question instead of being asked to choose between individuals in our area there might be more engagement. That of course requires massive electoral reform (some sort of list system. In the meantime there must be ideas out there.

Sham Squire

If there's any lessons to be learned from this campaign it's that once people see a chance to influence meaningful change they engage with politics.
Once we get back to party politics, political whips, cronyism, tribalism and all of the other things that we see in the usual elections; then they turn away. The onus is on the political parties themselves to change how things are done in this country and re-engage with people, allow people to really influence the big decisions. A bit like asking turkeys to vote for christmas then.

echo beach

Black Menorca wrote: »

But isn't this an opportunity to engage with at least a cohort of these voters?

Educate them in the mechanics of the democratic process?

Again I would suggest that you aren't speaking their language. They don't want to be 'educated' in a process that they consider outmoded. They are all for democracy but NOT the way party politics sees it.

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

But your everyday life is directly affected by the votes cast in every GE.

Your vote goes toward forming an administration that sets policies on economic and social issues.

Why would you go out of your way to deny yourself your say in that formation?

Unless you're voting for a potential taoiseach, tanaiste, finance minister or expenditure minister, you are wasting you time.

Whip, whip.

&

Government controls Dail.

Black Menorca

echo beach wrote: »

Again I would suggest that you aren't speaking their language. They don't want to be 'educated' in a process that they consider outmoded. They are all for democracy but NOT the way party politics sees it.

The spoiled brat mentality. They want it handed to them on a plate. I know what you are referring to alright.

But there is a responsibility on their behalf to meet us halfway.

Engage with the system as it is, by all means bring their influence on it.

symbolic

I'd be one of these new voters. And I wanted to vote this time because I could clearly see a wrong, in my opinion, and I wanted it to be corrected. By me voting a certain way, along with a majority I was guaranteed the outcome I was voting for, no lies or broken promises.

I don't feel the above for general elections. Of course probably down to ignorance on my part.

Also yesterday wasn't about politics for me. Or about a victory or a win. It was all about righting a wrong, helping others who were being wronged. And it's great to see an immediate effect around Dublin city today.

I'd vote every week on similar issues.

echo beach

Black Menorca wrote: »

But there is a responsibility on their behalf to meet us halfway.

Engage with the system as it is, by all means bring their influence on it.

We are all on this Island together. It can't be 'them' and 'us'.
Engaging with the system we have is ONE way. It is what I have done all my adult life and frankly all I see is it getting worse.
Others may choose to reject the current system. Maybe they are right. I don't know.

Black Menorca

symbolic wrote: »

I'd be one of these new voters. And I wanted to vote this time because I could clearly see a wrong, in my opinion, and I wanted it to be corrected. By me voting a certain way, along with a majority I was guaranteed the outcome I was voting for, no lies or broken promises.

I don't feel the above for general elections. Of course probably down to ignorance on my part.

Also yesterday wasn't about politics for me. Or about a victory or a win. It was all about righting a wrong, helping others who were being wronged. And it's great to see an immediate effect around Dublin city today.

I'd vote every week on similar issues.

Well done on voting yesterday. You played your part in bringing real change. Be proud.

This referendum is one political camapign of many.

Politics rights wrongs all the time. Jakes Law, funding the Health Service, legislating against criminal acts, providing a humane welfare system for those worse off than ourselves.

you can play a part in all of the above and more by joining a political party and advocating for issues that are important t you and others who think just like you.

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

Well done on voting yesterday. You played your part in bringing real change. Be proud.

This referendum is one political camapign of many.

Politics rights wrongs all the time. Jakes Law, funding the Health Service, legislating against criminal acts, providing a humane welfare system for those worse off than ourselves.

you can play a part in all of the above and more by joining a political party and advocating for issues that are important t you and others who think just like you.

Whip, whip, whip.

Black Menorca

Saipanne wrote: »

Whip, whip, whip.

What about the whip?

symbolic

Black Menorca wrote: »

you can play a part in all of the above and more by joining a political party and advocating for issues that are important t you and others who think just like you.

Thats the bit I don't get, political parties. How could a party continually agree with my many differing opinions on the world.

Have you found a party that you would vote for each year? or do you move your vote depending on what the parties are offering?

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

What about the whip?

Four people in government make all the major decisions. If your views oppose their line. Whip, whip, whip.

symbolic

Black Menorca wrote: »

This referendum is one political camapign of many.

I disagree with this too. Is the word political correct here?

Captain Chaos

They offer one thing but once in they do what they are told by Europe. It makes not much of a difference what party gets in really, they control what goes on under the table and behind the scenes.

Completely different to a referendum where you have direct control of your vote, it goes one way or the other.

In a GE it's a numbers game and your vote goes to others who don't get the minimum numbers. I personally don't see the point of voting in a GE. I only vote in referendums as I can see the cause and effect so to speak.

Black Menorca

Saipanne wrote: »

Four people in government make all the major decisions. If your views oppose their line. Whip, whip, whip.

There is so much more to political activism. Advocacy, protesting, contributing to policy, losing battles, winning battles, making a difference, seeing fruits of your labour.

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

There is so much more to political activism. Advocacy, protesting, contributing to policy, losing battles, winning battles, making a difference, seeing fruits of your labour.

But none of that matters because...

See above.

Black Menorca

symbolic wrote: »

Thats the bit I don't get, political parties. How could a party continually agree with my many differing opinions on the world.

Have you found a party that you would vote for each year? or do you move your vote depending on what the parties are offering?

Thats the thing, in every Party there are differing views.

You join a local Branch, advocate on local issues, become a delegate to attend your Party Conference. Play your part in molding Party Policy. Bringing that policy to the People, fighting elections, local and national.

Fantastic life, making a difference and never a dull day is to be had.

Black Menorca

Saipanne wrote: »

But none of that matters because...

See above.

Simply not true.

Into The Blue

Black Menorca wrote: »

The marriage referendum has brought out tens of thousands of new voters from the woodwork.

This has to be celebrated, well at least I celebrate it as a No voter.

Its wonderful to see genuine engagement in political affairs.

The challenge now is how can we keep their attention as we approach the General election next year?

Harnessing this mass of new energy could revolutionise the way we do politics.

Or, will they disappear again and turn their back on their civic duty?

No, there's no point in voting in a general election, as they're all just in it for the past check..

But yesterday's vote needed a large turn out from the silent majority as the usual ge voters could have swayed it to the no side.. God forbid!

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

Simply not true.

Yes, it is. Four people. And you will never influence a single one.

symbolic

Black Menorca wrote: »

Thats the thing, in every Party there are differing views.

You join a local Branch, advocate on local issues, become a delegate to attend your Party Conference. Play your part in molding Party Policy. Bringing that policy to the People, fighting elections, local and national.

Fantastic life, making a difference and never a dull day is to be had.

Does sound interesting, maybe someday I will give it a whirl.

Anyway I don't think yesterday was about politics, in a General Election sense.
I think you are missing the point of why so many "new voters" turned out to vote yesterday.

Black Menorca

symbolic wrote: »

Does sound interesting, maybe someday I will give it a whirl.

Anyway I don't think yesterday was about politics, in a General Election sense.
I think you are missing the point of why so many "new voters" turned out to vote yesterday.

Think of it this way. If the Labour Party wasn't in Government and didn't have Marriage Equality as a policy, yesterday would never have happened.

symbolic

Black Menorca wrote: »

Think of it this way. If the Labour Party wasn't in Government and didn't have Marriage Equality as a policy, yesterday would never have happened.

But I presume it would have happened at some stage anyway as all four main parties supported the Bill anyway?

Sand

Black Menorca wrote: »

That is a common misconception.

Voting in a GE has far more consequence for peoples' lives than a single issue referendum.

No, it really doesn't. Fiscal policy is pretty much dictated by the Troika. And the Dail is controlled by 3-4 individuals in the cabinet. Look at the last election - a political earthquake with Greena Fail being decimated. Fine Gael and Labour took up the baton and continued on exactly the same policies and same strategy, but reducing the Dail to an even greater irrelevance.

Referendums offer people a chance to have a say in how their country is run. The Dail is by design set up to ensure people do not have a say in how their country is run. This is justified by the intense contempt the political set have for the Irish voter. The Irish voter is the first to vote for same sex marriage in a referendum (by a decisive margin) but the Irish political set still view the typical Irish voter as a knuckle dragging, hairy savage who has to be beaten into civilised behaviour.

Its hardly surprising the Irish voter is not motivated to come out and vote for a political class that despises them and attempts to ensure their votes are meaningless.

martingriff

Black Menorca wrote: »

That is a common misconception.

Voting in a GE has far more consequence for peoples' lives than a single issue referendum.

I would not say so yes the Dail is for 4 years but any laws 1 makes another can change them. In a referendum the people change the laws and only another referendum can change that. Referendums can have a big impact such as the referendums on Children, Divorce, Abortion, giving the Dail powers for Tribunals of investigation. Whatever way you vote in a Referendum can change the way things are not just for the lifetime of a government but for a lifetime. (was not going for the dramatics)

Black Menorca

symbolic wrote: »

But I presume it would have happened at some stage anyway as all four main parties supported the Bill anyway?

I don't see a single FG government going near it with a barge pole, or FF for that matter.

Black Menorca

Sand wrote: »

No, it really doesn't. Fiscal policy is pretty much dictated by the Troika. And the Dail is controlled by 3-4 individuals in the cabinet. Look at the last election - a political earthquake with Greena Fail being decimated. Fine Gael and Labour took up the baton and continued on exactly the same policies and same strategy, but reducing the Dail to an even greater irrelevance.

Referendums offer people a chance to have a say in how their country is run. The Dail is by design set up to ensure people do not have a say in how their country is run. This is justified by the intense contempt the political set have for the Irish voter. The Irish voter is the first to vote for same sex marriage in a referendum (by a decisive margin) but the Irish political set still view the typical Irish voter as a knuckle dragging, hairy savage who has to be beaten into civilised behaviour.

Its hardly surprising the Irish voter is not motivated to come out and vote for a political class that despises them and attempts to ensure their votes are meaningless.

High on cynicism, low on reality.

martingriff

Black Menorca wrote: »

High on cynicism, low on reality.

Bar the Troika bit (now anyway) not much wrong with what he said

Sand

Black Menorca wrote: »

High on cynicism, low on reality.

High on cynicism, high on reality.

Unless you can point to some decisive shift in government policy since 2011?

The political set cant demand that average voter buys into the bull**** that voters matter whilst simultaneously ignoring and despising the voter as a knuckle dragging, backwoods savage. The core problem with democracy in Ireland is not the Irish voter, its the Irish political caste.

Black Menorca

Sand wrote: »

High on cynicism, high on reality.

Unless you can point to some decisive shift in government policy since 2011?

The political set cant demand that average voter buys into the bull**** that voters matter whilst simultaneously ignoring and despising the voter as a knuckle dragging, backwoods savage. The core problem with democracy in Ireland is not the Irish voter, its the Irish political caste.

You can decide to write yourself off as being powerless or you can take up the challenge, join a party or activist group.

Join campaigns locally, advocate for your community, embrace your civic duty.

Then again you can shrug your shoulder and do nothing too.

Sand

Black Menorca wrote: »

You can decide to write yourself off as being powerless or you can take up the challenge, join a party or activist group.

Join campaigns locally, advocate for your community, embrace your civic duty.

Then again you can shrug your shoulder and do nothing too.

So, I can join the political caste or I can be just another worthless Irish voter...and you wonder why the Irish political set cant motivate people to come out and vote for the meaningless Dail elections?

Seriously - the Dail elections ought to be empowering for the average citizen, but as you say yourself, if you're not in, you're out.

flazio

I didn't see this as getting involved in politics, I saw it as helping out my friends.

Black Menorca

flazio wrote: »

I didn't see this as getting involved in politics, I saw it as helping out my friends.

A noble cause. Fair play.

Where, in your view, is the disconnect between this referendum and the message not getting through about politics being all about helping those less fortunate and making all our lives better?

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

You can decide to write yourself off as being powerless or you can take up the challenge, join a party or activist group.

Join campaigns locally, advocate for your community, embrace your civic duty.

Then again you can shrug your shoulder and do nothing too.

I'd rather not get involved in pointless and thankless endeavours.

Black Menorca

Saipanne wrote: »

I'd rather not get involved in pointless and thankless endeavours.

And at the end of the day thats what it will come down to.

Those who can't be a*sed and those who will take on the challenge of their civic duty.

TommyKnocker

Black Menorca wrote: »

But your everyday life is directly affected by the votes cast in every GE.

Your vote goes toward forming an administration that sets policies on economic and social issues.

Why would you go out of your way to deny yourself your say in that formation?

People voted in the last election for FG/Lab based on their manifesto and pre-election promises. Once FG/Lab got into power their manifesto went out the window and their promises were broken. They even stated on TV in an interview that they lied to get into power.

How on earth is this kind of muppetry going to persuade new voters to take part in the GE. There simply is no difference between the main parties no matter who you vote for you just get more of the same and until there is a actual alternative to what we have now I see people continue to be disenfranchised with the GE thing.

Saipanne

Black Menorca wrote: »

And at the end of the day thats what it will come down to.

Those who can't be a*sed and those who will take on the challenge of their civic duty.