Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

case885

awec wrote:

It does?

awec wrote:

Piutau and VDM would be our only NIQs if Ludik leaves. Herbst the project.

awec wrote:

2+1, unless I am forgetting about someone.

Pienaar, how could you forget him?

CIARAN_BOYLE

awec wrote: »

It does?

Piutau and VDM would be our only NIQs if Ludik leaves. Herbst the project.

2+1, unless I am forgetting about someone.

Where is RP going?

Scythica

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Where is RP going?

RP is born in Lisburn and just likes the tanning beds from time to time. Funny ****er for accents as well. Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong

thomond2006

An Ulster fan forgets Pienaar? Surely a de-modable or a bannable offence...

former total

I think awec is basing that on his long-held desire that Isaac Boss would come home and Pienaar would move south to cushion the blow for Leinster.

awec

Pienaar doesn't really count sure. He's as Ulster as a pastie bap by this stage.

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There's nothing arbitrary about it though? Making the rules on a case by case basis would be arbitrary. Ulster's back row is a perfect example of where they need to be restricted and focus on sorting the problem with IQ players, just like Leinster in the 2nd row.

Sorry meant non-arbitary.

Anyway we almost have no young prospects coming through in the back row. There is a lad called Conall Boomer who may be decent, but even then he didn't make the U20s.

Yes IQ back rows could come, but they can't be forced to come.

Ultimately I want what is best for both Ulster and Ireland and Ulster being stuck with a poor back row just because they have to be IQ is in no one's interest as far as I'm concerned.

thomond2006

We'll trade ya JOD for Olding.

Seriously, one of the centres will have to leave at some stage. Piutau arriving pushes somebody out.

awec

thomond2006 wrote: »

We'll trade ya JOD for Olding.

Seriously, one of the centres will have to leave at some stage. Piutau arriving pushes somebody out.

Won't be Olding. Or Marshall. Or McCloskey.

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

Won't be Olding. Or Marshall. Or McCloskey.

We're trading you one of our best backrow prospects in years. Give us someone good, ya greedy guts.

Utah_Saint

thomond2006 wrote: »

We'll trade ya JOD for Olding.

Seriously, one of the centres will have to leave at some stage. Piutau arriving pushes somebody out.

"....Olding is not a naughty boy, he is the messiah..." :pac:

Would love JOD. Cave would be outstanding for Munster. I'd hate it if he left but out of all our centres he is the most likely to leave. Hes too good to be sitting on our bench....

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

Sorry meant non-arbitary.

Anyway we almost have no young prospects coming through in the back row. There is a lad called Conall Boomer who may be decent, but even then he didn't make the U20s.

Yes IQ back rows could come, but they can't be forced to come.

Ultimately I want what is best for both Ulster and Ireland and Ulster being stuck with a poor back row just because they have to be IQ is in no one's interest as far as I'm concerned.

Again, Ulster should have thought of that before splashing out on Piutau. This whole issue boils down to Ulster going out and getting someone they didn't need, therefore putting themselves in a bind when it comes to the back row. If the IRFU refuse any dispensation the simple fact would be that Ulster screwed themselves over.

As for why the IRFU didn't veto it I have no idea tbh. It seems odd that they hamstrung Munster with a low bid for Moore but allowed Ulster pay big bucks for Piutau. Maybe a deal was discussed regarding an IQ back row that freed up the spot?

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

Again, Ulster should have thought of that before splashing out on Piutau. This whole issue boils down to Ulster going out and getting someone they didn't need, therefore putting themselves in a bind when it comes to the back row. If the IRFU refuse any dispensation the simple fact would be that Ulster screwed themselves over.

As for why the IRFU didn't veto it I have no idea tbh. It seems odd that they hamstrung Munster with a low bid for Moore but allowed Ulster pay big bucks for Piutau. Maybe a deal was discussed regarding an IQ back row that freed up the spot?

An IQ back row won't solve our problem so there's no way that deal was ever made. We were always going to need to sign two players.

We needed a replacement for Williams (NIQ) AND another body (probably IQ). This was always the case.

If Ulster don't sign another NIQ back rower I'd be astounded, as well as pretty much every single other Ulster fan. I thought it was well known by now that we have been looking for a NIQ replacement for Williams. All the mutterings and rumours point towards us being in the market.

Even Kiss has said there are more exciting signings to be announced, and to be totally frank there are pretty much no exciting IQ signings that we are realistically going to make.

Money is not a problem, the big bucks paid to Piutau is not an issue. We've been hampered the past few years by having Williams, we were never going to be allowed two NIQs in the same position.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

An IQ back row won't solve our problem so there's no way that deal was ever made. We were always going to need to sign two players.

We needed a replacement for Williams (NIQ) AND another body (probably IQ). This was always the case.

If Ulster don't sign another NIQ back rower I'd be astounded, as well as pretty much every single other Ulster fan. I thought it was well known by now that we have been looking for a NIQ replacement for Williams. All the mutterings and rumours point towards us being in the market.

Even Kiss has said there are more exciting signings to be announced, and to be totally frank there are pretty much no exciting IQ signings that we are realistically going to make.

Money is not a problem, the big bucks paid to Piutau is not an issue. We've been hampered the past few years by having Williams, we were never going to be allowed two NIQs in the same position.

Nobody ever said the money paid to Piutau was an issue.

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

Nobody ever said the money paid to Piutau was an issue.

Right, but I am just saying that we have the money to go out and sign another NIQ back rower and I fully expect that is what will happen.

If we get a class NIQ back row, another IQ back row and Piutau, and then offload all the crap then that will be a very good bit of business by Ulster and can only be a good thing.

bilston

Payne to Leinster

Murphy to Ulster

Pocock to Ulster

Ulster get the extra NIQ for graciously allowing Payne to move to Leinster. Murphy moves to ulster which cleary benefits Ireland. Leinster get a brillant footballer who can play 13 and 15 to a very high standard.

Everyone wins!

awec

bilston wrote: »

Payne to Leinster

Murphy to Ulster

Pocock to Ulster

Ulster get the extra NIQ for graciously allowing Payne to move to Leinster. Murphy moves to ulster which cleary benefits Ireland. Leinster get a brillant footballer who can play 13 and 15 to a very high standard.

Everyone wins!

I'd take that right now if it was offered.

awec

Also if we could somehow get a replacement for Humphreys...

MJohnston

awec wrote: »

Also if we could somehow get a replacement for Humphreys...

But he's very literally irreplaceable...

jacothelad

molloyjh wrote: »

Should have thought of that before signing Piutau. Sorry but if you guys get another dispensation then that's just complete and utter BS. If Leinster and Munster can operate within the rules then Ulster can too. You shouldn't be rewarded for mismanaging your squad.

Munster squad have Botha, Amorosino, Chisholm, Saili, Bleyendahl, Sagario, Van Den Heever and until a few weeks ago C.J. Stander. Is this Munster operating within the rules? If so are they different for Ulster? have Ulster mismanaged the squad with 5 guys and Munster haven't with 7 and was 8 until a few weeks ago?

Herbst, Van der Merwe, Pienaar, Williams and Ludik will not all be here next season. Williams is definitely going and Ludik's contract is up at the end of the season. Piutau will replace one of them.

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

Also if we could somehow get a replacement for Humphreys...

Maybe you could bring back jaco's favourite player.

bilston

awec wrote: »

Also if we could somehow get a replacement for Humphreys...

Yeah I was just reading that in uafc. The only one I can think of is Marsh. Leinster aren't going to let Byrne go. I'd be very surprised if we got a 10 from there anyway given they've lost Madigan.

Unless he is talking about McKinlay.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

bilston wrote: »

Payne to Leinster

Murphy to Ulster

Pocock to Ulster

Ulster get the extra NIQ for graciously allowing Payne to move to Leinster. Murphy moves to ulster which cleary benefits Ireland. Leinster get a brillant footballer who can play 13 and 15 to a very high standard.

Everyone wins!

Pocock will earn his retirement fund in France then come to Ulster for free.

jacothelad

molloyjh wrote: »

Again, Ulster should have thought of that before splashing out on Piutau. This whole issue boils down to Ulster going out and getting someone they didn't need, therefore putting themselves in a bind when it comes to the back row. If the IRFU refuse any dispensation the simple fact would be that Ulster screwed themselves over.

As for why the IRFU didn't veto it I have no idea tbh. It seems odd that they hamstrung Munster with a low bid for Moore but allowed Ulster pay big bucks for Piutau. Maybe a deal was discussed regarding an IQ back row that freed up the spot?

I agree with the general principal that Piutau is a skewed signing. On Moore, maybe Ulster don't owe the IRFU 9,000,000 Euro. It's easy getting on a high horse when things are going fairly well for Leinster. There have been times in the past when Leinster had more than their quota of NIQ players. There may come a time in the future when they may need to do so again. Be careful what you wish for.

irishbucsfan

jacothelad wrote: »

Munster squad have Botha, Amorosino, Chisholm, Saili, Bleyendahl, Sagario, Van Den Heever and until a few weeks ago C.J. Stander. Is this Munster operating within the rules? If so are they different for Ulster? have Ulster mismanaged the squad with 5 guys and Munster haven't with 7 and was 8 until a few weeks ago?

Herbst, Van der Merwe, Pienaar, Williams and Ludik will not all be here next season. Williams is definitely going and Ludik's contract is up at the end of the season. Piutau will replace one of them.

Injury replacements are different to full time contracted players.

former total

jacothelad wrote: »

Munster squad have Botha, Amorosino, Chisholm, Saili, Bleyendahl, Sagario, Van Den Heever and until a few weeks ago C.J. Stander. Is this Munster operating within the rules? If so are they different for Ulster? have Ulster mismanaged the squad with 5 guys and Munster haven't with 7 and was 8 until a few weeks ago?

Herbst, Van der Merwe, Pienaar, Williams and Ludik will not all be here next season. Williams is definitely going and Ludik's contract is up at the end of the season. Piutau will replace one of them.

Sagario was only signed short-term and then as injury cover for Botha who will never play for Munster again. Amorosino is already gone.

So really it's Sagario, Chisholm, Bleyendaal, Van den Heever and Saili, which is 3+2, same as Ulster. VDH qualifies as Irish at the start of next season, so they'll be back to 3+1.
(Edit: and it's questionable if we should even count Bleyendaal)

thomond2006

The Ulster players are paid in sterling right? Even though they are all IRFU contracts at the end of the day? If so then Ulster would have significantly more purchasing power right now, all other things being equal, than the other three provinces.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

The Ulster players are paid in sterling right? Even though they are all IRFU contracts at the end of the day?

They get paid in Bass, and some actually ask for bonuses paid in Clonakilty sausages as they can't be sourced in the north.

former total

jacothelad wrote: »

I agree with the general principal that Piutau is a skewed signing. On Moore, maybe Ulster don't owe the IRFU 9,000,000 Euro. It's easy getting on a high horse when things are going fairly well for Leinster. There have been times in the past when Leinster had more than their quota of NIQ players. There may come a time in the future when they may need to do so again. Be careful what you wish for.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything, but I'm fairly sure it's not true.

bilston

Is the rule not 4+1 anyway? I thought the 3+1 rule had kind of been quietly forgotten about?

At the minute for next season Ulster are

NIQs
Franco Van Der Merwe
Ruan Pienaar
Charles Piutau

Project
Wiebhan Herbst

We don't know what is happening yet with Ludik.

For what it's worth I don't believe we have signed Pocock or a back row of that quality but after what Les Kiss said last night I do believe we have signed someone, be it IQ or NIQ.

It could be someone like Ryan plus another Treadwell like signing. I don't think that would go down well to be honest!

irishbucsfan

Maybe they'll bring back Ali Birch? That'd be an overseas signing

molloyjh

jacothelad wrote: »

Munster squad have Botha, Amorosino, Chisholm, Saili, Bleyendahl, Sagario, Van Den Heever and until a few weeks ago C.J. Stander. Is this Munster operating within the rules? If so are they different for Ulster? have Ulster mismanaged the squad with 5 guys and Munster haven't with 7 and was 8 until a few weeks ago?

Herbst, Van der Merwe, Pienaar, Williams and Ludik will not all be here next season. Williams is definitely going and Ludik's contract is up at the end of the season. Piutau will replace one of them.

In fairness Amorosino was signed as short-term cover when Jones was forced to retire and Sagario was signed as short-term cover for Archer and then retained for Botha. Both are there as medical jokers.

If you look at Munster this season (excluding the medical jokers) they have Botha, Chisholm, Saili, Bleyendaal and VDH. Stander was always going to be IQ this season so I'm assuming he was excluded from the count on that basis. With 2 project players there it's 3+2.

So yeah maybe Ulster will be able to look for a second project player, but if Ludik stays (which I doubt he will) he'd fill that.

awec

bilston wrote: »

Is the rule not 4+1 anyway? I thought the 3+1 rule had kind of been quietly forgotten about?

At the minute for next season Ulster are

NIQs
Franco Van Der Merwe
Ruan Pienaar
Charles Piutau

Project
Wiebhan Herbst

We don't know what is happening yet with Ludik.

For what it's worth I don't believe we have signed Pocock or a back row of that quality but after what Les Kiss said last night I do believe we have signed someone, be it IQ or NIQ.

It could be someone like Ryan plus another Treadwell like signing. I don't think that would go down well to be honest!

There is no way the Ulster management would be able to smooth over not signing a NIQ back row of sufficient quality. That would just be completely unacceptable.

bilston

awec wrote: »

There is no way the Ulster management would be able to smooth over not signing a NIQ back row of sufficient quality. That would just be completely unacceptable.

I think we have made a signing of aome significance but I doubt it is Pocock or Messam or someone like that.

There was a Saffer back row mentioned a while back that sounded more realistic, I can't remember his name but he plays for the Sharks and has 10 or 15 caps for South Africa. Kilisi or something I think??

Edit - plays for the Stormers not the Sharks. Silosi Kylosi

Bazzo

bilston wrote: »

I think we have made a signing of aome significance but I doubt it is Pocock or Messam or someone like that.

There was a Saffer back row mentioned a while back that sounded more realistic, I can't remember his name but he plays for the Sharks and has 10 or 15 caps for South Africa. Kilisi or something I think??

Edit - plays for the Stormers not the Sharks. Silosi Kylosi

Siya Kolisi?

awec

bilston wrote: »

I think we have made a signing of aome significance but I doubt it is Pocock or Messam or someone like that.

There was a Saffer back row mentioned a while back that sounded more realistic, I can't remember his name but he plays for the Sharks and has 10 or 15 caps for South Africa. Kilisi or something I think??

Edit - plays for the Stormers not the Sharks. Silosi Kylosi

Right, Pocock is obviously pie in the sky stuff.

But what I mean is there's no way the fans would accept signing a Dom Ryan or Jordi Murphy as the height of our back row ambitions.

That just wouldn't fly.

irishbucsfan

If it's Siya Kolisi I'll be very interested to see the reaction. Kolisi and Murphy is a good return for Ulster.

former total

"Director of Rugby Les Kiss says Ulster will announce a couple of big-name signings in the next few weeks" according to BBC.

Except he doesn't actually say that... there might well be no more signings.

http://m.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35425375

Neil3030

The exact comment:

Les Kiss wrote:

We've had recently the addition of Treadwell which has been a very good signing for us, and Rodney Ah You; we've retained the majority, if not, all of the players that we wanted to keep, so our roster is strong. There's a couple more announcements to be made over the next few weeks, maybe in four or five weeks. We'd hope that people are very excited by what we have coming up, we think it's exciting so watch this space.

It's tough to call whether the phrase: "We'd hope that people are very excited by what we have coming up, we think it's exciting so watch this space." refers to the general picture, i.e., signing Treadwell, Ah You, retaining their own players etc. Or whether it specifically refers to the couple of announcements that are coming up (whatever they may be) in the next few weeks. His choice of words has dug a bit of a hole though, if they don't have a few more players on the way.

bilston

Bazzo wrote: »

Siya Kolisi?

Yeah, that's the one. He was mentioned a while back on uafc. He seems a more realistic level than Pocock. BEtter than what we have.

phog

Rumour on MFs that Dom Ryan might be signing for Ulster.

It could be a good move for him.

irishbucsfan

phog wrote: »

Rumour on MFs that Dom Ryan might be signing for Ulster.

It could be a good move for him.

There was quite the discussion on the last couple of pages about it!

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There was quite the discussion on the last couple of pages about it!

Going on the reaction of someone on uafc who usually knows these things I suspect we are getting Ryan.

I'm in between yourself and awec on him. I think he is good enough to improve our squad but is he better than Diack? Diack would be ahead of him in the Ireland pecking order I think.

Diack is a funny one, I would have more faith in Ryan defensively, but then Diack may be a better carrier and is a very handy line out option, to the point where I'd almost like to see Diack move to the row permanently!

Still Ryan alone isn't enough for us. We need someone else!

errlloyd

bilston wrote: »

Going on the reaction of someone on uafc who usually knows these things I suspect we are getting Ryan.

I'm in between yourself and awec on him. I think he is good enough to improve our squad but is he better than Diack? Diack would be ahead of him in the Ireland pecking order I think.

Ryan was class not too long long ago, I wouldn't argue he's better than Diack right now, but I would argue that Diack has never been as good as Ryan was when he was pushing for Ireland.

jacothelad

bilston wrote: »

Going on the reaction of someone on uafc who usually knows these things I suspect we are getting Ryan.

I'm in between yourself and awec on him. I think he is good enough to improve our squad but is he better than Diack? Diack would be ahead of him in the Ireland pecking order I think.

Diack is a funny one, I would have more faith in Ryan defensively, but then Diack may be a better carrier and is a very handy line out option, to the point where I'd almost like to see Diack move to the row permanently!

Still Ryan alone isn't enough for us. We need someone else!

Just what I've been thinking. he seems a different player in aggression etc when he moves forward and he's a fantastic l/o operator. maybe he's been playing in the wrong place for years. he's a big fecker too. 6'5" and over 18 stones and quick with it.

Billysays no

phog wrote: »

Rumour on MFs that Dom Ryan might be signing for Ulster.

It could be a good move for him.

nearly definitely the truth. conor murray taking up residency in kerry, keith earls about to move to waterford, ian keatley to replace paddy wallace at ulster. apparently this is as current as current information gets :-)

Billysays no

god, i forgot. bod to make a surprise comeback

blackdog1

phog wrote: »

Rumour on MFs that Dom Ryan might be signing for Ulster.

It could be a good move for him.

Also rumored marsh going up and I heard your losing a young centre and wing

bilston

blackdog1 wrote: »

Also rumored marsh going up and I heard your losing a young centre and wing

Who are losing a young centre and wing? I ask because Phog is a Munster fan but I'm.assuming you probably mean Ulster?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

A centre AND a wing or a centre/wing?