Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

razorblunt

whatawaster wrote: »

How long would Scholes have to stay in Scotland in order to qualify to play for their national team?

Looks a real prospect - would hate to lose him from Irish rugby entirely

I was just going to ask the same thing, cap him on the summer tour would be the best option, might be another Tommy Seymour!
Excited to see him in Murrayfield though.

bilston

Happy about Marshall, but really disapointed to lose Scholes. I genuinely think he has the talent to break into the Irish set up in the next couple of years but we now face the danger of losing him to Scotland. I hope Joe keeps a close eye on him during his time in Scotland.

Buer

Very disappointed to hear Scholes is going. He certainly would have been welcomed at another province so I think him staying until he's Scottish eligible is a genuine concern.

Given the threat of him declaring for Scotland, I think it's time to re-examine the designated team for Irish qualification. It's currently the Wolfhounds but they'll have only played 4 matches in 5 years. With other nations declining to provide A sides, it makes the existence of ours somewhat redundant with the creation of Emerging Ireland.

connemara man

Buer wrote: »

Very disappointed to hear Scholes is going. He certainly would have been welcomed at another province so I think him staying until he's Scottish eligible is a genuine concern.

Given the threat of him declaring for Scotland, I think it's time to re-examine the designated team for Irish qualification. It's currently the Wolfhounds but they'll have only played 4 matches in 5 years. With other nations declining to provide A sides, it makes the existence of ours somewhat redundant with the creation of Emerging Ireland.

Did Scholes play u20s? I think it would be smarter to make that our second team

Buer

connemara man wrote: »

Did Scholes play u20s? I think it would be smarter to make that our second team

He did and I'd agree. I was more thinking we should just ditch our A team entirely when I mentioned the EI side.

awec

Buer wrote: »

Very disappointed to hear Scholes is going. He certainly would have been welcomed at another province so I think him staying until he's Scottish eligible is a genuine concern.

Given the threat of him declaring for Scotland, I think it's time to re-examine the designated team for Irish qualification. It's currently the Wolfhounds but they'll have only played 4 matches in 5 years. With other nations declining to provide A sides, it makes the existence of ours somewhat redundant with the creation of Emerging Ireland.

He only signed for 2 years with Edinburgh, if the intention was to become SQ then I presume 3 years would have been the deal.

thomond2006

While it's disappointing to see Scholes go, are any of the provinces really short of starting quality wingers where Scholes could be a likely starter on arrival?

Redsock

Disappointed to lose schoes and he will probably end up like seymour qualifying for Scotland. Seems it is nearly easier for an ulstermen to become an international playing for Scotland than Ireland.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

thomond2006 wrote: »

While it's disappointing to see Scholes go, are any of the provinces really short of starting quality wingers where Scholes could be a likely starter on arrival?

Leinster aren't exactly overrun with quality wingers, are they? Dave K and McFadden, occasionally Isa and Ringrose can play there but he's marked for centre duties by all accounts.

former total

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Leinster aren't exactly overrun with quality wingers, are they? Dave K and McFadden, occasionally Isa and Ringrose can play there but he's marked for centre duties by all accounts.

Isa is mainly a winger with RK and Kirchner there.

Easy to forget him but there's also Luke Fitz... and Adam Byrne is making good progress.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

former total wrote: »

Isa is mainly a winger with RK and Kirchner there.

Easy to forget him but there's also Luke Fitz... and Adam Byrne is making good progress.

I actually did forget him

To be honest even Ulster aren't that stocked with wingers. They've got Trimble and Bowe but both are coming to the end of their careers. Scholes and Gilroy could have been the starters next season although it would appear that's not in the plans or they wouldn't have let him go.

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I actually did forget him

To be honest even Ulster aren't that stocked with wingers. They've got Trimble and Bowe but both are coming to the end of their careers. Scholes and Gilroy could have been the starters next season although it would appear that's not in the plans or they wouldn't have let him go.

Did Ulster have a choice in him leaving?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

bilston wrote: »

Did Ulster have a choice in him leaving?

I don't know but the quotes seem to suggest he thinks he'll have more opportunities in Edinburgh which would suggest he didn't fancy his chances at Ulster. That could mean Ulster weren't bothered about keeping him, it could mean they weren't offering him the deal he wanted or it could be he genuinely thinks he'll do better at Edinburgh.

Trimble signed a 2 year contract last year. Bowe signed a 3 year deal the year before. It could just be with all the contract renewals on the table that the cash isn't there to keep him.

I would still think if he was a top priority for them they would have gotten his contract sealed up before some of the other players though.

Buer

awec wrote: »

He only signed for 2 years with Edinburgh, if the intention was to become SQ then I presume 3 years would have been the deal.

Seymour went on a 2 year deal too and was signed up to an extension in December of the second year to lock him down for the third season. They don't mess around and know what they're doing.

I would think the aim for the SRU was to do the hard part and get him to move over and sign a deal. Now that's done, they can work on him settling and try and entice him into an extension in two years. If he signs on, there's no doubt they'll call him up immediately just to cap him.

Bazzo

Buer wrote: »

Seymour went on a 2 year deal too and was signed up to an extension in December of the second year to lock him down for the third season. They don't mess around and know what they're doing.

I would think the aim for the SRU was to do the hard part and get him to move over and sign a deal. Now that's done, they can work on him settling and try and entice him into an extension in two years. If he signs on, there's no doubt they'll call him up immediately just to cap him.

I thought Seymour qualified through his mother?

Buer

Bazzo wrote: »

I thought Seymour qualified through his mother?

You know what? You're right and I'm utterly ill informed.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Any chance Scholes has Scottish grandparents?

mfceiling

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Any chance Scholes has Scottish grandparents?

You talking about Jock and Mary McScholes?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

mfceiling wrote: »

You talking about Jock and Mary McScholes?

Unless he's inbred his mother presumably had a different surname.

Edit: I tried to google it but it just kept suggesting I search for "Is Rory Scholes related to Paul Scholes".

mfceiling

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Unless he's inbred his mother presumably had a different surname.

McScholes - Scholes

Different?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

mfceiling wrote: »

McScholes - Scholes

Different?

You're saying Miss McScholes married Mr. Scholes?

rsh118

Sad to see him go, but hopefully he has a storming 2 years and we have the dineros to re-sign him after Tommy Bowe is installed as backs coach.

Though I'd love to start the conspiracy theory that Rory McIlroy is a prima Donna and insists on not having anyone else named Rory involved with Ulster Rugby.

launish116

sad to see him leave, especially with how exciting the back line looks next year. He could learn allot but would definitely have limited game time, if he can increase that in Edinburgh and keep improving, I'd happily see him return in 2 years.

We still expecting a few more signings? or recon we're almost done.

errlloyd

Initially I thought, "surely he can't be getting any more gametime over there than he got here"

But looking at their squad they're short on wings. They tried to sign that massive lad Glasgow have over the summer to replace Visser but didn't get him. He might get good quality game time over there and return. Tommy Bowe played for Ospreys...

I just hope he doesn't become a Niall Morris.

Bazzo

Ulster team and replacements to play Zebre, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 4th March, 7.35pm:
(15-9): C Gilroy, R Scholes, L Marshall, S Olding, J Stockdale, P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): K McCall, R Herring (captain), R Lutton, P Browne, F van der Merwe, R Diack, C Henry, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, C Black, A Warwick, R Wilson, S Reidy, P Marshall, S Windsor, D Cave.

Presume that Diack is covering second row? I didn't think either of Reidy or Wilson played there.

RobbieRuns

Fair play to Stockdale, he is getting a few games under his belt

sfbdqc

Not exactly lighting it up though.

postitnote

After the dross served up in the last few weeks, here's hoping for something out of this game.

The key is going to be keeping PJ and RP on the pitch as long as possible.

Excited to see PJ, Olding, Marshall midfield. I really hope they click, because if they do, they'll be a formidable trio.

bilston

sfbdqc wrote: »

Not exactly lighting it up though.

This seems to be a commonly held view on uafc. I didn't see the game last week but the other games I've seen he has looked fine. He nearly scored a length of the field solo try against Glasgow!

launish116

bilston wrote: »

This seems to be a commonly held view on uafc. I didn't see the game last week but the other games I've seen he has looked fine. He nearly scored a length of the field solo try against Glasgow!

Think people are being very hard on his performances to date, he's fresh at this level and hasn't exactly been given much of a platform to work from e.g. P Marshal passing to him on the wing when he's marked by 3 defenders.

As you say he did well against Glasgow and I was impressed with his first match, even with a few nerves.

jacothelad

launish116 wrote: »

Think people are being very hard on his performances to date, he's fresh at this level and hasn't exactly been given much of a platform to work from e.g. P Marshal passing to him on the wing when he's marked by 3 defenders.

As you say he did well against Glasgow and I was impressed with his first match, even with a few nerves.

..and he is a centre....not a wing.

I find it hard to fathom that Ulster couldn't offer deals to Arnold and Scholes that would have kept them here. It just smacks of the total incompetence of the Ulster management set up.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

jacothelad wrote: »

..and he is a centre....not a wing.

I find it hard to fathom that Ulster couldn't offer deals to Arnold and Scholes that would have kept them here. It just smacks of the total incompetence of the Ulster management set up.

I suppose deals that were done last year or the year before were being done by different people than are doing them now? I don't know how it all works and how much the IRFU are involved but is it possible that they literally couldn't offer Scholes and Arnold new deals? Like they handed out contracts willy nilly over the past few years and now Kiss and co are living with the consequences?

Bowe, for example, got a three year deal and they couldn't have foreseen it but he wasn't on great form last season and has spent all of this season injured. Is his deal preventing Scholes from being re-signed or is it just that they weren't offering Scholes what he wanted?

case885

jacothelad wrote:

I find it hard to fathom that Ulster couldn't offer deals to Arnold and Scholes that would have kept them here. It just smacks of the total incompetence of the Ulster management set up.

You don't know Ulster didn't offer them contracts, it's more likely they were offered contracts but wanted to leave for more game time.

mfceiling

Personally I think it was mad to offer Bowe 3 years. 2 would have been plenty. When you're touching 30 your pace will not be close to your peak. I reckon he'll come back ok but I think his days in green at least are over.

Sinbad_NI

Any news on backup 10 for next season?

postitnote

Is it still going to be Nelson? Olding?
Maybe McKinley will have a good one for Zebre tonight to throw another hat into the ring?

Sinbad_NI

postitnote wrote:

Is it still going to be Nelson? Olding? Maybe McKinley will have a good one for Zebre tonight to throw another hat into the ring?

DOH. Completely forgot about Nelson.

RobbieRuns

Johnny McPhillips

sfbdqc

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Johnny McPhillips

isn't good enough for pro 12 next season.

RobbieRuns

I don't think so either, but he is the Irish U20 FH and he is with Ulster next season. It's up to the coaches to decide and If they think that he is good enough....

jacothelad

case885 wrote: »

You don't know Ulster didn't offer them contracts, it's more likely they were offered contracts but wanted to leave for more game time.

I didn't claim that Ulster didn't offer them contracts. I said that it was incompetence to fail to offer two very clearly high performing young players deals including game time that would be attractive enough to keep them here. Munster couldn't out bid Ulster for Arnold and Edinburgh - while a great place to live is rarely going to exalt a non-Scottish rugby players career prospects.

thomond2006

jacothelad wrote: »

I didn't claim that Ulster didn't offer them contracts. I said that it was incompetence to fail to offer two very clearly high performing young players deals including game time that would be attractive enough to keep them here. Munster couldn't out bid Ulster for Arnold and Edinburgh - while a great place to live is rarely going to exalt a non-Scottish rugby players career prospects.

Arnold would be well down the pecking order though at Ulster. Piutau and Ludik at Ulster next season means Payne will probably be exclusively at centre and there's Marshall, McCloskey, Olding, Stockdale and Cave to consider (am I forgetting someone else?). Munster are short on centres and Arnold will play a lot of first team rugby.

case885

jacothelad wrote:

I didn't claim that Ulster didn't offer them contracts. I said that it was incompetence to fail to offer two very clearly high performing young players deals including game time that would be attractive enough to keep them here. Munster couldn't out bid Ulster for Arnold and Edinburgh - while a great place to live is rarely going to exalt a non-Scottish rugby players career prospects.

Arnold is vying for a centre spot with 4 internationals, scholes had 3 internationals ahead of him. Ulster could promise all the game time in the world but I'm sure the two lads knew they had a better chance of first team rugby elsewhere.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

case885 wrote: »

Arnold is vying for a centre spot with 4 internationals, scholes had 3 internationals ahead of him. Ulster could promise all the game time in the world but I'm sure the two lads knew they had a better chance of first team rugby elsewhere.

I don't know about Arnold but I would have thought Scholes could have been in with a real shot next year. Bowe hasn't been in great form for a while and who knows how he'll be when he comes back from this injury. Trimble is an important player for Ulster but he's not exactly setting the league on fire this season either. Unless the feeling is that Bowe and Trimble will always be first choice on reputation.

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I don't know about Arnold but I would have thought Scholes could have been in with a real shot next year. Bowe hasn't been in great form for a while and who knows how he'll be when he comes back from this injury. Trimble is an important player for Ulster but he's not exactly setting the league on fire this season either. Unless the feeling is that Bowe and Trimble will always be first choice on reputation.

2016/17 Back Three Options
Full Back
Jared Payne
Charles Piutau
Stuart Olding
Louis Ludik
Craig Gilroy
Peter Nelson

Wings
Charles Piutau
Tommy Bowe
Andrew Trimble
Craig Gilroy
Jacob Stockdale
Louis Ludik

Academy
Jack Owens
Rob Lyttle

Really when you look at it Ulster could have done with Scholes from a POV of depth on the wing. It depends on how much Ireland involvement Trimble, Bowe and Gilroy have.

FWIW if Scholes starts the season well for Edinburgh well I wouldn't fanny around and just cap him against Canada in November. He isn't ready for the Ireland squad yet but two years from now I think he will be. Don't risk losing him. There isn't an abundance of young wingers about at the moment. Under the age of 25 there is Gilroy and Zebo and after that Scholes is probably next on the list?

bilston

No intention of bringing politics into the rugby forum, but seemingly the prison officer injured the bomb attack in East Belfast this morning is an Ulster Season ticket holder. Hope he makes a full and quick recovery.

Billysays no

Liked the olding article in the independent

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/stuart-olding-eyes-brighter-days-after-being-in-dark-places-34506679.html

speed over crash/bang

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

George Clancy

Akrasia

Whats the score in this game?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Akrasia wrote: »

Whats the score in this game?

20-0 to Ulster. They've had 2 tries disallowed. First was so so but the second should definitely have stood.