Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

Has Hart not turned down moves home in the past?

Think he turned down Leinster, but I think there's bad feeling there AFAIK.

Buer

awec wrote: »

We tried to develop Shanahan but he just isn't good enough. We had Marshall who just isn't good enough. We cannot magically come up with a 9 and it's such a critical position that anyone not up to scratch will drag the whole team down.

Ulster have signed poor players or long shots over the past 7 years to try and fill the gap.

They would have been far better off trying to develop a project scrum half alongside Pienaar rather than signing multiple outside backs whom were highly questionable in terms of their need.

After 7 years, Ulster cannot cry foul. They've been far too reliant on Pienaar. They should be all over Connacht for John Cooney now as they've very few options elsewhere.

bilston

Tarf1234 wrote: »

In fairness we are very short on scrum halves in Ireland and having Pienaar there is not/has not helped that.

That's all well and good but who replaces him? All this will do is begatively affect the likes of Jackson, Olding, Marshall etc. That isn't good for Irish rugby.

We have a promising prospect in the Academy in Jonathan Stewart but he is 18 and probably 3 years away from the team.

As for being short of scrum halves there is Murray, McGrath and Marmion, that's more than we have had at many times in the past.

I'm not surprised this has happened and I completely understand how the provinces are subserviant to the Ireland team but it is still very disapointing. Sure we can sign a project 9 now and in 3 years time we will have JGP and whoever we sign battling it out to be the next non Irish Irish international...great...

Buer

awec wrote: »

We're going to have to go hunting in the SH for someone with an Irish granny.

Not to be overly critical but if that hunt didn't start 3 years ago someone in the Ravenhill offices should be kicked up and down the place.

greg090

molloyjh wrote: »

Think he turned down Leinster, but I think there's bad feeling there AFAIK.

more to do with money.

Adbrowne

Statements released, IRFU copping flak about Pienaar being forced to leave

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Ulster were to sign a project player at the position then they'd be doing their bit. They never did.

In saying thay, a lot of Leinster fans moaned when the same thing happened to us, let's remember. Nathan Hines wasn't allowed to sign and a lot of Leinster fans threw their toys out of the pram, despite the IRFU being completely right (even if maybe not great in how they handled it).

Yeah, a few years ago I'd have agreed with awec on this. But when you look at it in retrospect where would Toner be if we had kept Hines on? Would guys like Molony and Ryan be making the progress they are? Not allowing Leinster to extend Hines' contract was the correct call at the time, even though I did disagree with it back then.

Molony and particularly Ryan are top drawer prospects though. Players like that will come through no matter what. Ulster just don't have a scrum half of the required standard to replace Pienaar or get anywhere near his level.

I guess we should look at the likes of Hart and Cooney now, or, and I have no idea what his contract situation is, and it wouldn't be great for Connacht, but maybe we will have to make a play for Kieron Marmion.

The only thing is Ruan isn't getting any younger so we were always going to have to cut the cord at some point. I just hopes we could get him for another year to help develop Stewart who as I've mentioned before is meant to be a very decent prospect.

greg090

molloyjh wrote: »

That depends on what you label "good" I suppose. I'd class both McGrath and Cooney as "good". McCarthy is looking good too and Rock has a good bit of potential from what I've seen of him.

They are decent, but leinster havent developed a starting quality scrumhalf this century.. hence the need to sign JGP. Maybe McGrath will beat him out, but it looks far from a sure thing and McGrath was previously viewed as the scrumhalf messiah in leinster.

Good is Kiernan Marmion level.. neither Cooney or McGrath are at that sadly.

bilston

Adbrowne wrote: »

Statements released, IRFU copping flak about Pienaar being forced to leave

The statement from Ulster is pretty damning (whether you agree or not) I can imagine there may be some pretty tense exchanges between certain people today!

Bazzo

bilston wrote: »

Molony and particularly Ryan are top drawer prospects though. Players like that will come through no matter what. Ulster just don't have a scrum half of the required standard to replace Pienaar or get anywhere near his level.

I guess we should look at the likes of Hart and Cooney now, or, and I have no idea what his contract situation is, and it wouldn't be great for Connacht, but maybe we will have to make a play for Kieron Marmion.

The only thing is Ruan isn't getting any younger so we were always going to have to cut the cord at some point. I just hopes we could get him for another year to help develop Stewart who as I've mentioned before is meant to be a very decent prospect.

Marmion is signed up with Connacht until 2018.

bilston

Bazzo wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Molony and particularly Ryan are top drawer prospects though. Players like that will come through no matter what. Ulster just don't have a scrum half of the required standard to replace Pienaar or get anywhere near his level.

I guess we should look at the likes of Hart and Cooney now, or, and I have no idea what his contract situation is, and it wouldn't be great for Connacht, but maybe we will have to make a play for Kieron Marmion.

The only thing is Ruan isn't getting any younger so we were always going to have to cut the cord at some point. I just hopes we could get him for another year to help develop Stewart who as I've mentioned before is meant to be a very decent prospect.

Marmion is signed up with Connacht until 2018.

Well there you go. Good news for Connacht though.

b.gud

Bazzo wrote: »

Marmion is signed up with Connacht until 2018.

bilston wrote: »

Well there you go. Good news for Connacht though.

Cooney is out of contract at the end of this season though, and I reckon that he would be a player who could be tempted North with the promise of being first choice.

While the reaction to Cooney hasn't been hugely positive over the past few posts I think he would be a great addition to Ulster. If it was announced tomorrow that Marmion was injured and out for the rest of the season I would have 0 worries about Cooney stepping up.

The only possible issue with him is he can be prone to injuries at times.

greg090

b.gud wrote: »

Cooney is out of contract at the end of this season though, and I reckon that he would be a player who could be tempted North with the promise of being first choice.

While the reaction to Cooney hasn't been hugely positive over the past few posts I think he would be a great addition to Ulster. If it was announced tomorrow that Marmion was injured and out for the rest of the season I would have 0 worries about Cooney stepping up.

The only possible issue with him is he can be prone to injuries at times.

Cooney is nowhere near Pienaars level though. He is a good backup scrumhalf, that's not what Ulster needs to replace Pienaar.

awec

greg090 wrote: »

Cooney is nowhere near Pienaars level though. He is a good backup scrumhalf, that's not what Ulster needs to replace Pienaar.

We are never going to get another Pienaar anyway, even if we were given free reign on who to sign.

We just need to reduce the drop in standard as much as possible.

b.gud

greg090 wrote: »

Cooney is nowhere near Pienaars level though. He is a good backup scrumhalf, that's not what Ulster needs.

Good point, ye should tell the IRFU you want Murray so.

There is no IQ scrum half, bar Murray, that is on the level of Pienaar. If the Ulster statement is true, and I have no reason to believe it's not, then you will not be allowed to sign an NIQ player, and most likely not even a project player.

If that's the case you have look at what are the best IQ options available. Off the top of my head Thomas O'Leary is out of contract at the end of this year, Ian Porter is back in Ulster playing for a club whose name I can't remember. John Cooney is out of contract at the end of this season.

I know that obviously people are upset about losing Pienaar, pretty much every team would be, but if you put that aside for a minute and think logically about what is best for Ulster for the future, then looking at that list I know who I would sign.

greg090

awec wrote: »

We are never going to get another Pienaar anyway, even if we were given free reign on who to sign.

We just need to reduce the drop in standard as much as possible.

Suppose so, Cooney better option that what Ulster have available in house.

awec

greg090 wrote: »

Suppose so, Cooney better option that what Ulster have available in house.

Being a better option than what is in house right now is feint praise.

Marshall is absolutely useless and Shanahan doesn't even look like he'd do a job against the Treviso B team.

Buer

bilston wrote: »

The statement from Ulster is pretty damning (whether you agree or not) I can imagine there may be some pretty tense exchanges between certain people today!

I would imagine that's simply PR. There's not a hope that this can come as any surprise to Ulster's management.

bilston

Aye well given where we are I would take Cooney.

This all kind of puts the club v union control debate into perspective. Imagine Toulon, Racing 92, Wasps or Saracens being told they had to release a player by their Union. Obviously that's the point of Union control and I get that. But it does show the difficulty we have in competing in the Champions Cup with these sides.

I wonder if the IRFU will release a statement in response to Ulster. Grab the popcorn lads...

b.gud

Maybe someone in Ulster can get onto ROG and see if he's willing to help broker a Hart for Pienaar swap

former total

In fairness, the surprising thing is not that Pienaar is going, but that he was able to stay so long.

Signing Piutau and Coetzee was probably the final straw.

Best-case scenario for Ulster is a project player or some SH guy with an Irish granny. Hart has only just signed for Racing, Cooney isn't really good enough to be first choice.

bilston

I wonder why this has been announced two days before the season starts...strange timing to say the least...it kind of kills the feel good buzz from the friendly win over Northampton!

So NIQs for next season (17/18)

NIQ
Coetzee
Piutau
VDM? (Did he sign a 1 yr or 2 yr extension?)

Project
None
Herbst and Ludik will be IQ

Potential for a couple of signings then, 1 NIQ and 1 Project.

jacothelad

Buer wrote: »

Not to be overly critical but if that hunt didn't start 3 years ago someone in the Ravenhill offices should be kicked up and down the place.

Player after player has been brought in to the academy at 9. None have measured up. Poreter at one time looked the part but we know he just didn't have it. Also, remember that it was Isaac Boss bailing out to Leinster that kept Marshall in the squad. His contract wasn't being renewed. Ulster had planned on a Boss / Pienaar partnership.

molloyjh wrote: »

Peinaar is in his 7th (?) season with Ulster now. In that time Munster have brought through Murray (and, eh, Williams). Leinster have developed McGrath and Cooney plus are bringing through guys like McCarthy and Rock. Connacht have developed Marmion and Blade. They've had more than enough time to develop a scrum half of reasonable quality just like the other provinces. They haven't. At some point they have to carry the can for it. There are over 2 million people in Ulster. They should be able to find/develop a decent scrum half in there somewhere.

molloyjh wrote: »

You're not being asked to magic someone up. You've had 7 years to develop one. In that time every other province has developed at least 1, if not more. And Ulster has the second largest catchment area in the country. At some point you have to start looking at your Academy and wonder what they are doing wrong. Because clearly they are doing something wrong. Rather than be frustrated with the IRFU for not helping to cover up Ulsters shortcomings in the area you should start looking at the development structures in Ulster and asking why are they not doing better.

Neither of these highlighted phrases are of any consequence in regard to rugby. 50% of all secondary level schools don't play it for reasons outside sport. Those schools play Gaelic games.....and soccer. In reality, only about 7 or 8 schools grammar schools here play it to any standard with the occasional top player coming from outside these few groups of players. Also, as these schools are highly academic and produce the best 'A' level results in the U.K. year on year, a huge % of players leave here at 18 to go to University in G.B., never to be seen again. The brain drain from rugby playing schools is immense.

State secondary - as opposed to grammar - schools are too small to have rugby teams and historically play soccer anyway. They simply couldn't compete in any meaningful and safe manner. Outside of N.I. rugby hardly exists in the rest of Ulster - again for reasons outside sport.

I think the remarkable thing is the fact that Ulster can compete at all in the professional world rather than the fact that we can't produce a 9 worth the shirt.

Looking long term at the future of rugby here I am not confident that it will remain capable of doing so. Ulster already scour the dregs of the Exiles and elsewhere to even make a squad.

Ah You, Black, Herring, Herbst, Tuohy, Treadwell, O'Connor, Van der Merwe, Browne, Coetzee, Pienaar, Shanahan, Diack, Donnan, Dow, Herron, Lloyd, McPhillips, Payne, Piutau, Reidy, Ross, Windsor...... Non-homegrown Ulster players - some of whom are not and never will be good enough - but without whom we would be alongside the likes of Zebre - if even. The writing is on the wall, it's just that no one has bothered to read much in to it so far.

greg090

Donnan is ulster home grown fwiw.

Ulster should try recruit Niall Saunders from Harlequins.

molloyjh

jacothelad wrote: »

Neither of these highlighted phrases are of any consequence in regard to rugby. 50% of all secondary level schools don't play it for reasons outside sport. Those schools play Gaelic games.....and soccer. In reality, only about 7 or 8 schools grammar schools here play it to any standard with the occasional top player coming from outside these few groups of players. Also, as these schools are highly academic and produce the best 'A' level results in the U.K. year on year, a huge % of players leave here at 18 to go to University in G.B., never to be seen again. The brain drain from rugby playing schools is immense.

State secondary - as opposed to grammar - schools are too small to have rugby teams and historically play soccer anyway. They simply couldn't compete in any meaningful and safe manner. Outside of N.I. rugby hardly exists in the rest of Ulster - again for reasons outside sport.

I think the remarkable thing is the fact that Ulster can compete at all in the professional world rather than the fact that we can't produce a 9 worth the shirt.

Looking long term at the future of rugby here I am not confident that it will remain capable of doing so. Ulster already scour the dregs of the Exiles and elsewhere to even make a squad.

Ah You, Black, Herring, Herbst, Tuohy, Treadwell, O'Connor, Van der Merwe, Browne, Coetzee, Pienaar, Shanahan, Diack, Donnan, Dow, Herron, Lloyd, McPhillips, Payne, Piutau, Reidy, Ross, Windsor...... Non-homegrown Ulster players - some of whom are not and never will be good enough - but without whom we would be alongside the likes of Zebre - if even. The writing is on the wall, it's just that no one has bothered to read much in to it so far.

How does Ulster compare schools wise to the other provinces? Obviously Leinster is probably out in front in that regard, but is Ulster ahead or behind the other provinces in that regard?

greg090

molloyjh wrote: »

How does Ulster compare schools wise to the other provinces? Obviously Leinster is probably out in front in that regard, but is Ulster ahead or behind the other provinces in that regard?

ahead of Munster and Connacht IMO.

The Lost Sheep

jacothelad wrote: »

Player after player has been brought in to the academy at 9. None have measured up. Poreter at one time looked the part but we know he just didn't have it. Also, remember that it was Isaac Boss bailing out to Leinster that kept Marshall in the squad. His contract wasn't being renewed. Ulster had planned on a Boss / Pienaar partnership.

Neither of these highlighted phrases are of any consequence in regard to rugby. 50% of all secondary level schools don't play it for reasons outside sport. Those schools play Gaelic games.....and soccer. In reality, only about 7 or 8 schools grammar schools here play it to any standard with the occasional top player coming from outside these few groups of players. Also, as these schools are highly academic and produce the best 'A' level results in the U.K. year on year, a huge % of players leave here at 18 to go to University in G.B., never to be seen again. The brain drain from rugby playing schools is immense.

State secondary - as opposed to grammar - schools are too small to have rugby teams and historically play soccer anyway. They simply couldn't compete in any meaningful and safe manner. Outside of N.I. rugby hardly exists in the rest of Ulster - again for reasons outside sport.

I think the remarkable thing is the fact that Ulster can compete at all in the professional world rather than the fact that we can't produce a 9 worth the shirt.

Looking long term at the future of rugby here I am not confident that it will remain capable of doing so. Ulster already scour the dregs of the Exiles and elsewhere to even make a squad.

Ah You, Black, Herring, Herbst, Tuohy, Treadwell, O'Connor, Van der Merwe, Browne, Coetzee, Pienaar, Shanahan, Diack, Donnan, Dow, Herron, Lloyd, McPhillips, Payne, Piutau, Reidy, Ross, Windsor...... Non-homegrown Ulster players - some of whom are not and never will be good enough - but without whom we would be alongside the likes of Zebre - if even. The writing is on the wall, it's just that no one has bothered to read much in to it so far.

And the club game is very small in the province and doesn't really bring through many at all in terms of age grade. For similar reasons.

molloyjh wrote: »

How does Ulster compare schools wise to the other provinces? Obviously Leinster is probably out in front in that regard, but is Ulster ahead or behind the other provinces in that regard?

Ulster 2nd in terms of schools in nearly all areas. Numbers, success, strength

bilston

I'm not even sure Ulster will sign an IQ scrum half. They may wait and see how Lloyd shapes up and then if it works go with Marshall, Lloyd and Shannahan with Stewart hopefully coming through.

In hindsight the reason Pienaar was given a 3rd extension was to guide PJ at 10. PJ is now a very capable test standard player and doesn't need baby sitting anymore. Given the IRFU rules this shouldn't be a surprise. My issue is that I think the IRFU rules are crock of poo. To me this will do more damage than good to Irish rugby, hence it's a bad call.

Tarf1234

molloyjh wrote: »

awec wrote: »

Has Hart not turned down moves home in the past?

Think he turned down Leinster, but I think there's bad feeling there AFAIK.

No bad feeling. Just being offered less in Leinster and too late.

molloyjh

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Ulster 2nd in terms of schools in nearly all areas. Numbers, success, strength

So why is it that they are finding it so much harder to develop players?

greg090

molloyjh wrote: »

So why is it that they are finding it so much harder to develop players?

They do a much better job than leinster in the backline.. bar 9 and it's not like leinster have a stellar record there.

thomond2006

IRFU statement: http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/37891.php

irishbucsfan

greg090 wrote: »

They do a much better job than leinster in the backline.. bar 9 and it's not like leinster have a stellar record there.

If they did a much better job than Leinster then they wouldn't be totally reliant on NIQ talent.

In actuality the people involved in underage development in Ulster seem totally disillusioned with the setup and it very much seems the quality young players who have come through have done so in spite of the systems rather than because of them.

Adbrowne

thomond2006 wrote: »

IRFU statement: http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/37891.php

If Pienaar was signed for one more season, who exactly is he blocking from coming through?

greg090

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If they did a much better job than Leinster then they wouldn't be totally reliant on NIQ talent.

In actuality the people involved in underage development in Ulster seem totally disillusioned with the setup and it very much seems the quality young players who have come through have done so in spite of the systems rather than because of them.

Luke Marshall
Craig Gilroy
Rory Scholes
Stuart McCloskey
Stuart Olding
Paddy Jackson
Nevin Spence

Yes they have done a much better job than leinster in developing backs this decade.

irishbucsfan

greg090 wrote: »

Luke Marshall
Craig Gilroy
Rory Scholes
Stuart McCloskey
Stuart Olding
Paddy Jackson
Nevin Spence

Yes they have done a much better job than leinster in developing backs this decade.

Rob Kearney, Felix Jones, Luke Fitzgerald, Dave Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Andrew Conway, Eoin O'Malley, Jonathan Sexton, Ian Madigan.

Luke McGrath, John Cooney both IQ scrum halves who Ulster could have done with producing.

Ulster knew about IRFU policy since the very beginning. They've known this was coming for years. If they couldn't develop their own backup they had ample opportunity to go out and sign a project player (which they did previously with Boss). They didn't do that. They had plenty of money to go out and do it. Now they are going to pay the price for that unless they find someone capable of starting for them.

molloyjh

greg090 wrote: »

They do a much better job than leinster in the backline.. bar 9 and it's not like leinster have a stellar record there.

If you want to get into a pissing contest you'll have to look elsewhere. I'm asking a genuine question and looking for genuine responses.

molloyjh

greg090 wrote: »

Luke Marshall
Craig Gilroy
Rory Scholes
Stuart McCloskey
Stuart Olding
Paddy Jackson
Nevin Spence

Yes they have done a much better job than leinster in developing backs this decade.

That's because Leinster haven't needed to develop the same number in that time. So you are comparing apples and oranges. Over the last 10 years Leinster have developed players all over the park, and developed internationals all over the park as well. Injuries to a few players has reduced the obvious numbers developed more recently (McKinley and O'Malley being the obvious examples) but with guys like Carbery, Ringrose, O'Loughlin and Dardis all coming through we're at the back end of that bump in the road now hopefully.

This isn't a competition to say who is better than who. It is a genuine conversation about the development of players in a province that is the second largest in the country. Jaco has flagged the issue more broadly himself and I'm trying to ascertain why the issue exists. There is absolutely no reason to talk about Leinster when discussing that.

Buer

Adbrowne wrote: »

If Pienaar was signed for one more season, who exactly is he blocking from coming through?

I would imagine it's not so much as who is he blocking as his presence is seeing Ulster failing to address the situation. People can talk about lack of natural talent available, playing numbers not being sufficient etc. but it has been 7 years.

There's nothing to have stopped Ulster getting guys like JGP or Marmion over the last few years both who have come from abroad. Paul Marshall should have been kicked to touch a long time ago but is kept on simply as an emergency back up.

In Pienaar's first season, he was the first choice and Paul Marshall was the replacement who was only to be used if necessary. In Pienaar's seventh season, he is the first choice and Paul Marshall is the replacement who is only to be used if necessary.

Rigor Mortis

The IRFU have issued a statement making it clear that this should come as a surprise to no one.

IRFU Statement

In response to a number of media queries following Ulster Rugby's announcement regarding Ruan Pienaar this morning, the following statement has been issued by the IRFU.



David Nucifora, IRFU Performance Director, stated, "The IRFU recognises the contribution that Ruan Pienaar has made to Ulster Rugby over the seven year period he will have been with the province, however the IRFU informed Ulster Rugby during the 2015/16 season that it would not sanction a further extension of his contract.

It is vital for both Ulster and Irish rugby that the province develop indigenous talent in this position and an extension of Ruan's contract would further prevent Irish qualified Ulster players from maximising their developmental potential and becoming stars for both Ulster and Ireland."

awec

bilston wrote: »

I'm not even sure Ulster will sign an IQ scrum half. They may wait and see how Lloyd shapes up and then if it works go with Marshall, Lloyd and Shannahan with Stewart hopefully coming through.

In hindsight the reason Pienaar was given a 3rd extension was to guide PJ at 10. PJ is now a very capable test standard player and doesn't need baby sitting anymore. Given the IRFU rules this shouldn't be a surprise. My issue is that I think the IRFU rules are crock of poo. To me this will do more damage than good to Irish rugby, hence it's a bad call.

If Ulster give Paul Marshall a new contract then Les Kiss and the entire management team need sacked.

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

If Ulster give Paul Marshall a new contract then Les Kiss and the entire management team need sacked.

You are Ravenhill's answer to Michael O'Leary

blackdog1

awec wrote:

If Ulster give Paul Marshall a new contract then Les Kiss and the entire management team need sacked.

Still think you'll be allowed to sign a good foreign scrum half as a project player. But being realistic there is only 2 international quality scrum half's playing in Ireland (Murray, Ruan) and 2 decent pro 12 standard ( marmion, cooney) rest are pretty average

Clegg

Pienaar leaving will be a blow for Ulster, but they've definitely gotten the most out of him. He's not the player he was a few years ago and he's on the downward curve now. But in that time he has helped bring Jackson through so now it's Paddy's time to help bed a 9 in. The blow is softened somewhat by the signings of Coetzee and Piutau as well.

I don't see the IRFU as the bad guy here. Misguided in their goals, I think, but not vindictive or malicious in their goals.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You are Ravenhill's answer to Michael O'Leary

You'll have to explain that one a bit more to me!

Zzippy

awec wrote: »

You'll have to explain that one a bit more to me!

He thinks you're an obnoxious publicity-seeking w*nker?

thomond2006

Anton Peikrishvili arrives until Christmas.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/15139.php#.V8bqxvkrLs0

Number 137

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Rob Kearney, Felix Jones, Luke Fitzgerald, Dave Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Andrew Conway, Eoin O'Malley, Jonathan Sexton, Ian Madigan.

Luke McGrath, John Cooney both IQ scrum halves who Ulster could have done with producing.

Ulster knew about IRFU policy since the very beginning. They've known this was coming for years. If they couldn't develop their own backup they had ample opportunity to go out and sign a project player (which they did previously with Boss). They didn't do that. They had plenty of money to go out and do it. Now they are going to pay the price for that unless they find someone capable of starting for them.

I think Boss was actually Irish qualified straight away through a grandparent.

irishbucsfan

Number 137 wrote: »

I think Boss was actually Irish qualified straight away through a grandparent.

Yes that's true. Same sort of concept though.

greg090

molloyjh wrote: »

That's because Leinster haven't needed to develop the same number in that time. So you are comparing apples and oranges. Over the last 10 years Leinster have developed players all over the park, and developed internationals all over the park as well. Injuries to a few players has reduced the obvious numbers developed more recently (McKinley and O'Malley being the obvious examples) but with guys like Carbery, Ringrose, O'Loughlin and Dardis all coming through we're at the back end of that bump in the road now hopefully.

This isn't a competition to say who is better than who. It is a genuine conversation about the development of players in a province that is the second largest in the country. Jaco has flagged the issue more broadly himself and I'm trying to ascertain why the issue exists. There is absolutely no reason to talk about Leinster when discussing that.

Yes they have.. leinster have massive gaps in their backline and have had so for a few years now.. they've never developed a high quality 9, needed to sign Henshaw to replace Darcy and have struggled to develop high quality wings since Luke Fitzgerald debuted nearly a decade ago.