Woman denied entry to church

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psinno wrote: »

Are they higher than male travellers suicide rates?
Male travellers have a suicide rate that is 6 times non travellers so it is pretty high already.

As far as I remember (I'll go find me notes), the female suicide rate is 8x for travellers what it would be for settled women. The rate of settled male suicide is pretty atrociously high though so I'm not sure how the numbers work out. Sums are not my strong point

fed up sick and tired

stefanovich wrote: »

Well, good luck to ye. Limerick is one place where the travellers are not treated badly!!

That's because everywhere else they go, they lower the tone.

One eyed Jack

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

It's a tricky thing, there are lots of traveller community health workers doing a lot to change attitudes, and the attitude of the young'uns would be vastly different than their parents, broadly speaking. Still a lot more prejudicial than settled culture, compounded by the fact that it's a lot harder for a young traveller to just do the ol' move to Dublin to get away with it thing.

Very rare for young traveller women to come out, apparently, much more acceptable for young men. Women get the thin end of the wedge in traveller culture generally though, their suicide rates are through the roof compared to settled women.

Ahh I understand that electro, but Fluffy seems to be a bit all over the place in their efforts to be outraged and shocked at the "inequality" shown towards travellers, but blinkered to the fact that travellers are well practiced at inequality and discrimination amongst themselves.

Fluffy made a ridiculous statement in an effort to associate marriage equality for everyone in society with the way travellers are treated in society, and it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny when it's pointed out that travellers discriminate amongst themselves when it comes to treating all members of their own community as equals.

Spanish Eyes

meeeeh wrote: »

I haven't got a clue what happens at first communion in my parish. But I know that people were not happy when all Irish were judged on the actions of the few drunken idiots in Australia. So tell me do we conclude that all Irish are drunken idiots who should be left out of Ireland?

I've been at a christening with a group of travellers and except awful clothes they behaved impeccably. They certainly knew their prayers much better than I did.

Jayus Australia is 24 hours away, we have to deal with Travellers every day of the week here. Boss.

You have just answered your own question anyway, Behave according to the societal norms and you will be grand. Do what you want in your Caravan/house/halting site. Same goes for all of us.

They drive the biggest, newest cars, live in hovels, demand everything, are responsible for nothing.

The majority of people here hate Travellers, but are terrified to say it. So there.

And maybe the Mods will come along and obliterate my post. That just shows.

But maybe they won't, because I am just stating a view. I always thought I lived in a Republic, and I am sure I do.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ahh I understand that electro, but Fluffy seems to be a bit all over the place in their efforts to be outraged and shocked at the "inequality" shown towards travellers, but blinkered to the fact that travellers are well practiced at inequality and discrimination amongst themselves.

Fluffy made a ridiculous statement in an effort to associate marriage equality for everyone in society with the way travellers are treated in society, and it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny when it's pointed out that travellers discriminate amongst themselves when it comes to treating all members of their own community as equals.

Aye just thought I'd field the question, purely by coincidence I was at a workshop with two traveller CHWs a couple of weeks ago and the subject came up, it was interesting.

Hitchens

gets popcorn ready

Aineoil

FluffyAngel wrote: »

Seems like this woman was denided entry to her local church based on the basis of her dress and the dress code of the church..

I really dont think that it's down to the woman being a traveller a
Do we deny the rights of others based on the dress code or because of what a person has done


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S_pOr6EEb-M

It was because she was a traveller. I'm looking with interest at the posts made.

I know the family and I'm not a traveller. I know the lad that posted the video.

Fair play to him.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

As far as I remember (I'll go find me notes), the female suicide rate is 8x for travellers what it would be for settled women. The rate of settled male suicide is pretty atrociously high though so I'm not sure how the numbers work out. Sums are not my strong point

I was wrong, six times the rate for traveller women compared to settled, seven times for men. Most at risk group is males aged 15-25, same as us.

PatM65

Going slightly off-topic but I was at a confirmation in Waterford over the weekend where a young couple arrived into the church half an hour after the Mass had started. Each had a Costa coffee with them - I guess the queue at Costa contributed to their lateness!

Carlos Orange

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

As far as I remember (I'll go find me notes), the female suicide rate is 8x for travellers what it would be for settled women. The rate of settled male suicide is pretty atrociously high though so I'm not sure how the numbers work out. Sums are not my strong point

Sounds like it is about twice the settled male suicide rate.

Kinda hard to compare rates meaningfully though since the age demographics are pretty different.

haveringchick

john hanrahan wrote: »

mybe we should have a referendum to allow priests to get married they are the only people who cannot if they want to keep there vocation that is

maybe if that priest in Ennistymon was married he would be a little more welcoming

But yhe Constitution doesn't prevent priests from marrying? Why did you think that?

RoisinD

Aineoil wrote: »

It was because she was a traveller. I'm looking with interest at the posts made.

I know the family and I'm not a traveller. I know the lad that posted the video.

Fair play to him.

Yet you didn't even know who was making their Communion or the fact that discussions had taken place beforehand.
You said you had spoken to one person who was there and yet you can catergorically say it was because she was a traveller?

Look again at the video and if as you claim you know them tell me who is in the background going in and out of the church? Are they or are they not members of the S family?

haveringchick

Aineoil wrote: »

It was because she was a traveller. I'm looking with interest at the posts made.

I know the family and I'm not a traveller. I know the lad that posted the video.

Fair play to him.

Were all the Travellers excluded that day or just that woman?

meeeeh

PatM65 wrote: »

Going slightly off-topic but I was at a confirmation in Waterford over the weekend where a young couple arrived into the church half an hour after the Mass had started. Each had a Costa coffee with them - I guess the queue at Costa contributed to their lateness!

Oh god is it too much to expect for people to be late because they were getting decent coffee.

Spanish Eyes

Bottom line is, you go to the Church for a Hatch Match Dispatch or Communion/Confirmation, you observe their rules.

No shouting, no FB, no Snapchats, no video sharing on uTube, no nothing. Just go, and observe and be respectful.

Hey it is normal anywhere in the world to do this.

Time for Churches to lay out their stalls, and say it as it is, Their rules. And put it in a visible way. Although they cannot send a note to Travellers, who knows where they will be or what their address is.

RoisinD

haveringchick wrote: »

Were all the Travellers excluded that day or just that woman?

No. The Communion was on Saturady and most of those in the background going in and out are members of her family.

Ave Sodalis

Am I the only one who thinks that this seems like a remarkably un-christian thing to do? I'm fairly sure Jesus wouldn't have been overly impressed with people being turned away because of how they were dressed.

mackerski

FluffyAngel wrote: »

Seems like this woman was denided entry to her local church based on the basis of her dress and the dress code of the church..

Churches have dress codes now? I mean, I knew you weren't allowed to wear a hat (except for women, who used to have to wear one, confusing or what...?)

The Adversary

The person who put up the video has put the priests phone number in the comments so fellow filthy traveller's can harass him. Typical scum behavior.

signostic

mackerski wrote: »

Churches have dress codes now? I mean, I knew you weren't allowed to wear a hat (except for women, who used to have to wear one, confusing or what...?)

I refer you to a previous post...

meeeeh wrote: »

I wasn't allowed into quite a few churches in Italy and I think France because I was not properly dressed when sightseeing on holidays. I'm not a church goer but I wouldn't go to opera in track suit so I really don't see the problem with enforcement of certain dress code.

Spanish Eyes

The Adversary wrote: »

The person who put up the video has put the priests phone number in the comments so fellow filthy traveller's can harass him. Typical scum behavior.

The priest was right. Disgraceful behaviour from The Travellers here. Putting it up to him as other family's kids were going in to the church.

This might just make other churches wake up and make others observe THEIR rules at last.

So what?

They are exempt from the Equal Status Act, so they should be doing it NOW.

Yellowblackbird

If she's so anxious to get into this religious ceremony she must be one of two things - either a christian or a catholic.

1. If she is christian she should forgive the priest. She should apply the
'golden rule' to everyone in every situation. Treat other people as they
would want to be treated. In this situation the priest would want the
situation to be ignored, unfilmed and for the lady to go away. She
would do this to make him happy.

2. If she is catholic then she is subscribed to a group based completely on
hierarchy and rules. According to the club rules she must do as the
priest says. If he banned her for wearing blue then she must follow the
rules as laid down.

Spanish Eyes

sup_dude wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that this seems like a remarkably un-christian thing to do? I'm fairly sure Jesus wouldn't have been overly impressed with people being turned away because of how they were dressed.

But he ran the traders from the Temple. What did they do wrong?

twowheelsonly

Aineoil wrote: »

Yep, you have it in one. It's not the first story that I have heard about him either.

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

I don't think the issue is that there's a dress code (I've no problem covering up going into churches or mosques), it's that he was letting settled women in in similar states of exposure and not the travellers.

I'm from near enough to Enistymon, and it's not the first second or third time I've heard stories about that priest and travellers tbh

I've heard a few stories about travellers myself... some good, some bad, some exaggerated.

Reading between the lines there's a lot more to this but whatever previous there is the Traveller(s) still haven't lost their right of 'entitlement'.

One eyed Jack

sup_dude wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that this seems like a remarkably un-christian thing to do? I'm fairly sure Jesus wouldn't have been overly impressed with people being turned away because of how they were dressed.

I wouldn't say it was remarkably unchristian, but certainly I'm not impressed by the behaviour and attitude of that particular priest. I've had issues with my own local priest's attitude to homeless drug addicts in the past when he called the Gardaí to have them removed from the Church grounds, but he's not a bad person overall.

I think the dress was just an excuse if I'm honest, he doesn't particularly seem to have wanted that particular woman in there, and I think it has a lot more to do with her attitude than her dress sense. We don't see what went on before it though and we don't have any context or history from a minute long youtube clip.

Jesus wasn't very tolerant of people being disrespectful his old man's gaff either as far as I remember

Teyla Emmagan

She looks fine to me to be honest.

Spanish Eyes

The Adversary wrote: »

The person who put up the video has put the priests phone number in the comments so fellow filthy traveller's can harass him. Typical scum behavior.

Bet the priest is delighted. Playing right into his hands this is.

Only the FB and uneducated generation will gloat over this.

Tin Foil Hat

Follow up clip here:-
Have a look at some of the other outfits, especially that very young teenager with the bare midriff.

Spanish Eyes

twowheelsonly wrote: »

I've heard a few stories about travellers myself... some good, some bad, some exaggerated.

Reading between the lines there's a lot more to this but whatever previous there is the Traveller(s) still haven't lost their right of 'entitlement'.

Some of them can rant and rave at a Communion, when all the other kids' parents are hoping for a lovely day out.

Not impressed. Sense of entitlemtent seems to overrule the enjoyment of everyone else, no matter what the setting is.

Feck off, the lot of them.

whiskeyman

PatM65 wrote: »

- I guess the queue at Costa contributed to their lateness!

Latteness...

Spanish Eyes

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Follow up clip here:-
Have a look at some of the other outfits, especially that very young teenager with the bare midriff.

Whatever your problems are, you do not shout and rant at a church where others are hoping for a nice ceremony with their own children.

haveringchick

sup_dude wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that this seems like a remarkably un-christian thing to do? I'm fairly sure Jesus wouldn't have been overly impressed with people being turned away because of how they were dressed.

so if you were having a gathering for a group including small children and preteen boys and your granny and grandad and your auntie an elderly nun and a middle agedwoman arrived dressed like a prostitute in a see through dress you wouldn'tthink it was inappropriate?
Or are you just angling to have another go at the church?
Do you think there should be no such thing as a dress code anywhere? W day at the beache is mo different to your mothers funeral?
Do uou think the other families of the other communicants deserved to sit in yhe church without being assaulted by eyefuls of this woman's belly and boobs snd backside?

Juanito13

meeeeh wrote: »

Yeah the bastards even die on average 20 years sooner than the rest of population. That's how good they have it.

And whose fault is that?

Sam Kade

Aineoil wrote: »

In fairness

It was her little girl's first communion day and her mother wasn't allowed into

the church to celebrate the sacrament. I wouldn't be too happy if that

happened to me. There has always talk about how travellers dress for

communions and confirmations in Ennistymon.

I just feel the situation could have been handled with a little more diplomacy.

Where did it say that her daughter was getting her first communion?

whatismyname

Sam Kade wrote: »

Where did it say that her daughter was getting her first communion?

She heard it on the grapevine

Dyr

meeeeh wrote: »

Yeah the bastards even die on average 20 years sooner than the rest of population. That's how good they have it.

And even after that they lower the tone with the ould valley-of-the-kings style headstones

RoisinD

Sam Kade wrote: »

Where did it say that her daughter was getting her first communion?

Aineoil has repeated this twice despite my attempts to correct it. It was not her daughter it was her husbands niece

Sam Kade

whatismyname wrote: »

She heard it on the grapevine

Indeed

Yellowblackbird

That would make the girl her niece also

Sam Kade

RoisinD wrote: »

Aineoil has repeated this twice despite my attempts to correct it. It was not her daughter it was her husbands niece

She's adding a bit of drama to the story so :mad:

Yellowblackbird

This is a great thread. So many facets.
We haven't even begun speculating where the menfolk are yet.

Sam Kade

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

That would make the girl her niece also

How exactly she's no blood relation to her husbands niece?

omerin

sup_dude wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that this seems like a remarkably un-christian thing to do? I'm fairly sure Jesus wouldn't have been overly impressed with people being turned away because of how they were dressed.

There weren't greyhound skirts in Jesus's day

Odyssey 2005

I'm sure Duffy will have a field day tomorrow

mjmorr

stefanovich wrote: »

In the Philippines they will cover a woman's shoulder's before she goes into the church. There are shawls available at the door to protect modesty.

The girl was dressed a bit provocatively but I've seen a lot worse. I really hate the wanton discrimination that travellers have to put up with. The majority of them are good people.

You want to get real!!

Yellowblackbird

Sam Kade wrote: »

How exactly she's no blood relation to her husbands niece?

Still her niece also. - by any standard definition

One eyed Jack

haveringchick wrote: »

so if you were having a gathering for a group including small children and preteen boys and your granny and grandad and your auntie an elderly nun and a middle agedwoman arrived dressed like a prostitute in a see through dress you wouldn'tthink it was inappropriate?
Or are you just angling to have another go at the church?
Do you think there should be no such thing as a dress code anywhere? W day at the beache is mo different to your mothers funeral?
Do uou think the other families of the other communicants deserved to sit in yhe church without being assaulted by eyefuls of this woman's belly and boobs snd backside?

You're familiar with how Jesus came to meet Mary Magdalene though? I presume you're also then aware of her occupation?

Jesus Christ didn't judge anyone on the clothes they wore or their appearance, so I wouldn't think we should judge that woman for her dress sense, but rather for her attitude, and she seems to be lacking humility as much as the priest was lacking humanity.

Spanish Eyes

No respect for anyone.

Terrible behaviour, and we would condemn it anywhere.

I just hope the little uns Communion Service went ok for them and for their parents.

Despite it all, it is one of the few ceremonies that brings people together nowadays, and ok, a lot of it has nothing to do with religion, but TRADITION.

Same with weddings and funerals.

Respect and decorum is required. And it is observed. Apart from this moron, who probably had a problem with her relatives more than the priest/church. Although I know I am making assumptions here, but probably true just the same.

Any opportunity for a fight, and some of them are off!

Disgraceful behaviour, and it has to be called out for what it is.

It could all have been discussed afterwards, but no. Had to disrupt the enjoyment of everyone else.

Slapper.

MathDebater

meeeeh wrote: »

Yeah the bastards even die on average 20 years sooner than the rest of population. That's how good they have it.

50% of them die before they reach their 40th birthday, 84% are unemployed and their child mortality and literacy rates exceed that of some third world countries. Whose fault is this? If you completely ignore education and live the cultural ways of the late 19th century, then this is the inevitable result.

If they engaged and tried to integrate themselves with the education system, healthcare system and general populace of the state, then they would find that their situation would rapidly improve. It's all there for them. It's up to them to take it and improve their quality of life.

whatismyname

RoisinD wrote: »

Aineoil has repeated this twice despite my attempts to correct it. It was not her daughter it was her husbands niece

Ah but sure Chinese Whispers is great fun

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

That would make the girl her niece also

Yeah, when plugging the story elsewhere, the woman in the video says it was her 'niece and nephew's' communition.