Woman denied entry to church

Sam Kade

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

I'm sure Duffy will have a field day tomorrow

Do you think so? I'd say this woman's nonsense won't get any further than her youtube video and here. There's nothing to see here only a mouthy traveller woman who a fairly common.

Spanish Eyes

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

That would make the girl her niece also

We seem to be getting into Deliverance territory here now.

Dyr

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

I'm sure Duffy will have a field day tomorrow

"And how short wear the skirts?
How short?
You said they were short but how short caller?
Were they showing anything that could be considered indecent, or lewd, or obscene
How short wear they?
And how old were these girls caller?"


He'll do himself an injury

whatismyname

Sam Kade wrote: »

Do you think so? I'd say this woman's nonsense won't get any further than her youtube video and here. There's nothing to see here only a mouthy traveller woman who a fairly common.

Well, already a press agent commenting on the original you tube video a few hours back trying to get hold of the woman for a news story.....

Whatever sells...

PandaPoo

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

No respect for anyone.

Terrible behaviour, and we would condemn it anywhere.

I just hope the little uns Communion Service went ok for them and for their parents.

Despite it all, it is one of the few ceremonies that brings people together nowadays, and ok, a lot of it has nothing to do with religion, but TRADITION.

Same with weddings and funerals.

Respect and decorum is required. And it is observed. Apart from this moron, who probably had a problem with her relatives more than the priest/church. Although I know I am making assumptions here, but probably true just the same.

Any opportunity for a fight, and some of them are off!

Disgraceful behaviour, and it has to be called out for what it is.

It could all have been discussed afterwards, but no. Had to disrupt the enjoyment of everyone else.

Slapper.

As I said already, I am from a traveller family and I fully agree with what you've said. The stories I could tell are horrific, but she's wearing a short dress, she's out of place in a church but hardly a slapper just for that.

Drakares

I am trying to imagine something in this world that I care less about.

Sam Kade

whatismyname wrote: »

Well, already a press agent commenting on the original you tube video a few hours back trying to get hold of the woman for a news story.....

Whatever sells...

The storyful news agency man, I'm sure he's only pulling her leg

Dyr

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

This is a great thread. So many facets.
We haven't even begun speculating where the menfolk are yet.

Up on the roof?

Yellowblackbird

Oxford Dictionary: Niece
noun

A daughter of one’s brother or sister, or of one’s brother-in-law or sister-in-law.

Yellowblackbird

Bambi wrote: »

Up on the roof?

.

PandaPoo

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

Oxford Dictionary: Niece
noun

A daughter of one’s brother or sister, or of one’s brother-in-law or sister-in-law.

I actually can't believe it had to be explained to some people.

Un Croissant

I won't share my feelings on the traaablers.

What I will say is: Hatch, Match, Dispatch. You learn something new everyday.

whatismyname

Sam Kade wrote: »

The storyful news agency man, I'm sure he's only pulling her leg

I'm pretty sure he's not

His job being to get stories, this is just one of many stories he's been seen trying to get today.

Genuine picture and email on the youtube comments, all matches that on his verified twitter account, where he also shared the video direct from their facebook, and earlier in the day he was tweeting people who shared the video trying to track down the woman.

Not a total weirdo for knowing this, just took me about a minute to see it.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

MathDebater wrote: »

50% of them die before they reach their 40th birthday, 84% are unemployed and their child mortality and literacy rates exceed that of some third world countries. Whose fault is this? If you completely ignore education and live the cultural ways of the late 19th century, then this is the inevitable result.

If they engaged and tried to integrate themselves with the education system, healthcare system and general populace of the state, then they would find that their situation would rapidly improve. It's all there for them. It's up to them to take it and improve their quality of life.

The ones that do try and engage have serious problems though. It's a vicious circle.

Seriously, read this thread and have a guess what the chances are of a traveller getting hired by most of the people posting here? And that gets justified because people go "well it's not settled people's fault, it's the travellers who are robbing and sponging on the dole and giving them all a bad name". Where does that leave the traveller who's trying to get a job though? Go back to being on the dole, because he can't get a job, then he can't get a job because sure all travellers want is to be on the dole...and so it goes on and on.

As for education, there's an expectation that travellers are going to drop out early. I've heard a few traveller mothers talking about how they were driving themselves mad to try keep their kids in school so they'd have a better chance than they did, and teachers just weren't bothered, just not putting the effort in the way they would with settled kids.

If you're recognisably a traveller (appearance, dress, accent), just getting into shops or pubs is far from something you can take for granted, let alone getting a job, an education, a qualification and the lot.

I am NOT SAYING that there isn't terrible carry on from travellers, and I'm not excusing that behaviour. I'm saying it's not all of them, and some fault is at the feet of bigoted settled people.

Juanito13

MathDebater wrote: »

50% of them die before they reach their 40th birthday, 84% are unemployed and their child mortality and literacy rates exceed that of some third world countries. Whose fault is this? If you completely ignore education and live the cultural ways of the late 19th century, then this is the inevitable result.

If they engaged and tried to integrate themselves with the education system, healthcare system and general populace of the state, then they would find that their situation would rapidly improve. It's all there for them. It's up to them to take it and improve their quality of life.

Also, County councils have invested millions providing housing and proper accomodation for travellers and what happens?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/politics/councillor-calls-for-eviction-of-travellers-27713.html

And examples of this can be found all over the country
http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=26808

Zainab Flaky Barnacle

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

Seriously, read this thread and have a guess what the chances are of a traveller getting hired by most of the people posting here?

For what? It made the news when one got a feckin degree in Trinity, are they generally up to standard education-wise?

Juanito13

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

This is a great thread. So many facets.
We haven't even begun speculating where the menfolk are yet.

Terrorising elderly farmers??

PandaPoo

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

some fault is at the feet of bigoted settled people.

I don't agree at all. The fault lies entirely with the 95% of travellers that give the other 5% a bad name. We fully deserve the reputation we have.
That's not traveller bashing, it's just the sad truth.I used to hate admitting I'm a traveller and you'd probably never know it to look at me. I know I get judged instantly though, and I understand why.

Spanish Eyes

Un Croissant wrote: »

I won't share my feelings on the traaablers.

What I will say is: Hatch, Match, Dispatch. You learn something new everyday.

We have to think of a moniker for the oul Communion now too.

Can't think, any suggestions?

Spanish Eyes

PandaPoo wrote: »

As I said already, I am from a traveller family and I fully agree with what you've said. The stories I could tell are horrific, but she's wearing a short dress, she's out of place in a church but hardly a slapper just for that.

Why not?

No one in my family, nor anyone I know, would turn up in a Church dressed like that.

So if the cap fits.....

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

PandaPoo wrote: »

I don't agree at all. The fault lies entirely with the 95% of travellers that give the other 5% a bad name. We fully deserve the reputation we have.
That's not traveller bashing, it's just the sad truth.I used to hate admitting I'm a traveller and you'd probably never know it to look at me. I know I get judged instantly though, and I understand why.

But how are that 5% ever going to be able to build up the critical mass needed for real change on their own?

I've seen people SPIT at travellers who were committing the crime of walking while being travellers. These were young teenage girls, I'd say around 14 or 15, I can see how the attitude of "fcukit, I won't bother trying because it'll just get thrown back in my face" gets easily ingrained, very early on.

Yellowblackbird

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We have to think of a moniker for the oul Communion now too.

Can't think, any suggestions?

batch (bread)

diddley

Not good at all. Some might dress ridiculously but this woman certainly wasn't one of them. The priest was totally in the wrong

Yellowblackbird

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

But how are that 5% ever going to be able to build up the critical mass needed for real change on their own?

Molly coddling, appeasing and basically paying off is a policy which has left the traveling community separate and outside.

To integrate them they must be made to follow the rules. Tough love.

PandaPoo

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

But how are that 5% ever going to be able to build up the critical mass needed for real change on their own?
.

Honestly I don't know the answer, not now anyway. It's nobody's fault but their own though, the travellers in general and not the ones trying to better themselves.

I think if they're not being educated then the children should be taken off them, but that opens up another mess.

signostic

diddley wrote: »

Not good at all. Some might dress ridiculously but this woman certainly wasn't one of them. The priest was totally in the wrong

his opinion, his church, his rules...nothing wrong about that

Spanish Eyes

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

The ones that do try and engage have serious problems though. It's a vicious circle.

Seriously, read this thread and have a guess what the chances are of a traveller getting hired by most of the people posting here? And that gets justified because people go "well it's not settled people's fault, it's the travellers who are robbing and sponging on the dole and giving them all a bad name". Where does that leave the traveller who's trying to get a job though? Go back to being on the dole, because he can't get a job, then he can't get a job because sure all travellers want is to be on the dole...and so it goes on and on.

As for education, there's an expectation that travellers are going to drop out early. I've heard a few traveller mothers talking about how they were driving themselves mad to try keep their kids in school so they'd have a better chance than they did, and teachers just weren't bothered, just not putting the effort in the way they would with settled kids.

If you're recognisably a traveller (appearance, dress, accent), just getting into shops or pubs is far from something you can take for granted, let alone getting a job, an education, a qualification and the lot.

I am NOT SAYING that there isn't terrible carry on from travellers, and I'm not excusing that behaviour. I'm saying it's not all of them, and some fault is at the feet of bigoted settled people.

Travellers have a Taxpayer funded Quango all to themselves, Pavee Point, who strangely take the moolah, but fail to call out their bad behaving fellow "travellers" for what they are.

It's all "culture, ethnicity, racism" and all the rest of it when they are challenged. But no response when those they represent act the blx.

And when I heard the Pavee Point were aligned with the Roma I just lost interest quite frankly, but I am still paying for this quango anyway whether I like it or not.

What has Traveller Culture given back to me for all the taxes I pay for their Quango?

I am happy to pay taxes to keep them out of poverty. But I don't think the majority of them need it now.

Anyway, there we are.

Yellowblackbird

.

Spanish Eyes

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

batch (bread)

That sounds like Cockney slang for "dead".

We are looking for Communion here!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

PandaPoo wrote: »

Honestly I don't know the answer, not now anyway. It's nobody's fault but their own though, the travellers in general and not the ones trying to better themselves.

I think if they're not being educated then the children should be taken off them, but that opens up another mess.

Me neither, but I suspect the answer doesn't lie in open, indiscriminate and unchallenged discrimination and ridicule from settled people. That is only going to make the situation worse, and unless people are more interested in petty finger pointing and name calling than actually improving things, it's one of the things that has to be challenged.

(As well as all the really crappy things about a lot of travellers)

Dyr

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

As for education, there's an expectation that travellers are going to drop out early. I've heard a few traveller mothers talking about how they were driving themselves mad to try keep their kids in school so they'd have a better chance than they did, and teachers just weren't bothered, just not putting the effort in the way they would with settled kids.

You generally don't have to "put in an effort" with a child just to keep them attending

I know a teacher who taught in an area with traveller kids, he experience was that as young kids they're no different to the settled kids but as they hit the double figure years they start to segregate themselves and then drift out a few years later.

The term "horse to water" springs to mind.

Spanish Eyes

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

.

Blank post.

Are you there? Hellooooo.

up for anything

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ahh come on, it's hardly like she rocked up to the Church Lady Guinevere style, jumped down off the horse and pulled on a frock!

I hate inaccuracies. I presume you mean Lady Godiva. Guinevere was King Arthur's wife/Queen.

Yellowblackbird

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That sounds like Cockney slang for "dead".

We are looking for Communion here!

communion is bread - you know breaking bread. there's only so many things that rhyme

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Bambi wrote: »

You generally don't have to "put in an effort" with a child just to keep them attending

I know a teacher who taught in an area with traveller kids, he experience was that as young kids they're no different to the settled kids but as they hit the double figure years they start to segregate themselves and then drift out a few years later.

The term "horse to water" springs to mind.

You do when they're thinking of dropping out, which becomes a lot more likely when they're coming from a family background and peer group where dropping out is the norm. When I was in secondary school teachers put in a lot of effort and time with any student that was thinking of leaving.

Keeping them in education is going to be one of the biggest factors in changing things, maybe one thinks one shouldn't have to put in any particular effort to keep them there but the bare fact is it's needed.

One eyed Jack

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Why not?

No one in my family, nor anyone I know, would turn up in a Church dressed like that.

So if the cap fits.....

I've met plenty women who go to mass in outfits that would make what that woman is wearing look positively conservative. I couldn't describe them as eloquently as Wibbs, but they're hardly all that unusual in my experience. I'm just normally not taking any notice as I'm not there to spot women or critique a fashion parade.

Only recently now I think of it two weeks ago there was a young woman sitting in the row in front of me and she was wearing a top that had a split down the back and no bra underneath, I couldn't help but notice the rather nice tattoo she had on her back

Spanish Eyes

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I've met plenty women who go to mass in outfits that would make what that woman is wearing look positively conservative. I couldn't describe them as eloquently as Wibbs, but they're hardly all that unusual in my experience. I'm just normally not taking any notice as I'm not there to spot women or critique a fashion parade.

Only recently now I think of it two weeks ago there was a young woman sitting in the row in front of me and she was wearing a top that had a split down the back and no bra underneath, I couldn't help but notice the rather nice tattoo she had on her back

That was a Traveller who rocked up to a field near you.

Her Man was out bare knuckle boxing somewhere else, and the kids were looking after themselves, it's their culture FGS.

Irish Guitarist

The same person posted another video of the gardai entering the church. She seems to think this shows her in a positive light but all I can see is someone standing outside a church causing trouble and shouting at people.

I have no idea if she's telling the truth about being thrown out for her attire. If she is I see no evidence of it in the video. I don't know how anyone can watch that and just take her word for it.

It's like all those water protest videos where someone is giving a running commentary about how some guard has pushed them but they only started filming after the fact and you're supposed to just take their word for it.

Spanish Eyes

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

communion is bread - you know breaking bread. there's only so many things that rhyme

Ah jayz that gave me a laugh.

But you have to try harder really... Come on now!

MathDebater

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

As for education, there's an expectation that travellers are going to drop out early. I've heard a few traveller mothers talking about how they were driving themselves mad to try keep their kids in school so they'd have a better chance than they did, and teachers just weren't bothered, just not putting the effort in the way they would with settled kids.

Ten percent of traveller children die before the age of two. Think about that for a second. That's some third world **** right there. Try and advise a traveller on early child care and they will tell you to do one. They always know best, even when the results point to the contrary. The state tries it's best to provide early maternal care for them; they largely don't want to know.

You claim that some teachers don't put in the effort with traveller kids when compared to the time and attention they give to settled kids. This is grossly unfair, and, in my experience, the opposite of reality. Travellers attendance rates for class are abysmal. The teachers are not superheroes. They cannot be expected to bring a kid up to speed if they continuously miss class.

Roughly half complete their junior and only one in ten finish post primary school. Only 1% go onto third level education compared to the national average of 30%. They are the worst performing ethnic group in Britain with 3.9% achieving five top GSCE passes.

I have absolutely no doubt that travellers are severely discriminated in the job market. But if they do not engage with the educational system, then this will never change. If you do not complete your leaving cert in today's economy, then you're largely fcuked. They can blame the settled community all they want. It's give and take. If they engage more with the states services, send their children to class, then they will find that people are more receptive to them and the level of discrimination they receive will decrease.

diddley

signostic wrote: »

his opinion, his church, his rules...nothing wrong about that

he's merely a 'servant of god'... It's Jesus' rules!

One eyed Jack

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That was a Traveller who rocked up to a field near you.

Her Man was out bare knuckle boxing somewhere else, and the kids were looking after themselves, it's their culture FGS.

Nah, they weren't travellers of that sort, got talking to her after mass and she and her two sisters were visiting Ireland from Australia (they were talking during the mass and from their accents I figured they weren't local ).

Ahh I could be here all night giving examples of negative experiences with travellers, but in nearly 40 years of having grown up with them, worked with them, went out with a few of 'em, I have to say my experiences with travellers have been overwhelmingly positive.

Spanish Eyes

MathDebater wrote: »

Ten percent of traveller children die before the age of two. Think about that for a second. That's some third world **** right there. Try and advise a traveller on early child care and they will tell you to do one. They always know best, even when the results point to the contrary. The state tries it's best to provide early maternal care for them; they largely don't want to know.

You claim that some teachers don't put in the effort with traveller kids when compared to the time and attention they give to settled kids. This is grossly unfair, and, in my experience, the opposite of reality. Travellers attendance rates for class are abysmal. The teachers are not superheroes. They cannot be expected to bring a kid up to speed if they continuously miss class.

Roughly half complete their junior and only one in ten finish post primary school. Only 1% go onto third level education compared to the national average of 30%. They are the worst performing ethnic group in Britain with 3.9% achieving five top GSCE passes.

I have absolutely no doubt that travellers are severely discriminated in the job market. But if they do not engage with the educational system, then this will never change. If you do not complete your leaving cert in today's economy, then you're largely fcuked. They can blame the settled community all they want. It's give and take. If they engage more with the states services, send their children to class, then they will find that people are more receptive to them and the level of discrimination they receive will decrease.

Sad isn't it.

But education for them means they will inevitably. in time question their "culture" and it will all disintegrate. So that is verboten.

On another note, are Traveller families subject to the same "non attendance" laws for going to school as the rest of us are WRT our kids?

Maybe they are, but because of their "movement" around the country, they cannot be subject to the same rules.

QED. They are beyond the law in that regard anyway it seems.

Spanish Eyes

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Nah, they weren't travellers of that sort, got talking to her after mass and she and her two sisters were visiting Ireland from Australia (they were talking during the mass and from their accents I figured they weren't local ).

Ahh I could be here all night giving examples of negative experiences with travellers, but in nearly 40 years of having grown up with them, worked with them, went out with a few of 'em, I have to say my experiences with travellers have been overwhelmingly positive.

You are a tiny minority.

They don't integrate usually. And they don't stay anywhere long enough to be found out!

What did they work at, if you don't mind me asking.

But fair play. I will take what you say as being true. Although many others would run a mile from each other, it's the closed culture, on both sides I mean.

suicide_circus

Sam Kade wrote: »

Will this be called frock gate

Maybe "Frock (I'll sell you a) gate"

Spanish Eyes

suicide_circus wrote: »

Maybe "Frock (I'll sell you a) gate"

Boss Gate

blinding

I was at a confirmation once and one young woman was dressed very sexily in my opinion. Now thats fine with me because I like women a lot and time pass's in a grand manner for me when I am looking at sexy women.

But even I who was enjoying the beautiful woman kinda thought maybe this just wasn't the place for that outfit.

Maybe Church isn't the place for the sexy outfit ladies.

the_syco

Zainab Flaky Barnacle wrote: »

teachers just weren't bothered, just not putting the effort in the way they would with settled kids.

Where the kids in the same school for their entire life, and did said kids attend over 90% of the school year? One of the challenges that a lot of teachers face is that they get a new traveller kid who hasn't been to school in about 6 months, and may not have basic learning skills. Add to this an increase in classroom sizes, and you'll have multiple non-traveller kids falling through the cracks, never mind the traveller kid who doesn't even come in enough times to fall through said cracks.

To be fair to the mothers, some do care about their children, but their fathers mostly don't, and see the system as a joke. An attitude that they pass onto their children for a vicious circle.

blinding

the_syco wrote: »

Where the kids in the same school for their entire life, and did said kids attend over 90% of the school year? One of the challenges that a lot of teachers face is that they get a new traveller kid who hasn't been to school in about 6 months, and may not have basic learning skills. Add to this an increase in classroom sizes, and you'll have multiple non-traveller kids falling through the cracks, never mind the traveller kid who doesn't even come in enough times to fall through said cracks.

To be fair to the mothers, some do care about their children, but their fathers mostly don't, and see the system as a joke. An attitude that they pass onto their children for a vicious circle.

All (everyones) children's allowances should be tied to school attendance.

Exceptions should be very rare and with only very good reasons.

Spanish Eyes

blinding wrote: »

All (everyones) children's allowances should be tied to school attendance.

Exceptions should be very rare and with only very good reasons.

That is a great suggestion. For all of us.

But will Travellers claim discrimination for lack of school attendance because they have to eh....travel or something.

I would love to see the stats on Traveller families who have been sanctioned for non attendance of their chidren.

Your suggestion is a great one.

It will not be implemented due to the "ethnicity" of Travellers and their propensity for travelling around, with their children.