Woman denied entry to church

blinding

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That is a great suggestion. For all of us.

But will Travellers claim discrimination for lack of school attendance because they have to eh....travel or something.

I would love to see the stats on Traveller families who have been sanctioned for non attendance of their chidren.

Your suggestion is a great one.

It will not be implemented due to the "ethnicity" of Travellers and their propensity for travelling around, with their children.

In fairness somebody else suggested it to me and I thought it was such a good idea that I thought I would give it some air.

It probably should have been done a long time ago but as you say their may be some people trying to claim discrimination. It would probably worth the fight in this case.

Education by hook or by crook is the only way forward.

Spanish Eyes

Back to the main topic.

The woman was sh!t stirring and should not have made a drama out of a crisis.

But IMV there is the stirrings of a FEUD there in the family, be it outlaw or inlaw or just Them.

It is very sad that this is what happens.

Lack of integration and education with their peers results in this kind of carry on. In a Church setting that they hold so dear too, meh.

That is the reality.

Spanish Eyes

blinding wrote: »

In fairness somebody else suggested it to me and I thought it was such a good idea that I thought I would give it some air.

It probably should have been done a long time ago but as you say their may be some people trying to claim discrimination. It would probably worth the fight in this case.

Education by hook or by crook is the only way forward.

Totally agree,

But the reality is that education will lead to the death of that culture over time.

That is why many of them are against it. Sadly.

Not a NSA agent

Aineoil wrote: »

It was because she was a traveller. I'm looking with interest at the posts made.

I know the family and I'm not a traveller. I know the lad that posted the video.

Fair play to him.

The guy who put up the priests phone number and refers to non travelers as scum? Seems like a nice guy.

Greenacres

I am thankful for all the tolerant people I know who don't judge a section of society on anecdotes, stereotypes and sensationalist reporting. Its basic Sociology, that if you had an ounce of appreciation for the settled privilege you were born into, as Russel Brand so eloquently put it, just cos you came out of the right vagina..... you would see that the divide between the communities is not a fault at an individual level. The government has failed any citizen who is discriminated against to the levels that the travelling community experience. If society told you that you arent worth the same as others from the day you are born, that you are a sub class then hell yeah you would want to stick your fingers up to the lot of them. I know I would. I know so many decent lovely people from all communities. Educate yourselves before you make such ignorant comments that help no one. Bet you were all out waving your flags for gay rights because you are all about equality. Equality.... have it denied to you over and over again and I challenge anyone to deal with that on a daily basis and 'integrate'.

We wouldn't dream of making a slew of comments or jokes about people from other countries or people from the LGBT community. Check yourselves. Its not ok.

Bottom line is that if I as a settled woman arrived to that communion in the very same dress the priest would not have dared to deny me entry. Maybe her accent wasnt agreeable to you, maybe you read about a fight at a traveller wedding. Maybe I should post links to stories of the clergy raping children, the roscommon incest case, Larry Murphy brutally raping and nearly murdering an innocent woman. The swim coach scandal, the settled men that gravitate to roles in society that give them access to children. The sexual assaults and robberies that happen every day on our streets. The bankers that robbed our country of its future and walked away. Imagine if any of these things were perpetrated by a traveller. That would make for much more satisfying headlines where we can sit and judge from our settled privilege.

Irish Guitarist

Another video I found on the same YouTube channel. Charming bunch of people, especially the toddler at the end shouting "YOU FAT BASTARD". The fact that whoever filmed this video thought this was showing themselves in a positive light shows the kind of mentality these people have.

Greenacres

Video clip that shows small number from a minority group used by privileged member of the majority to make sweeping judgement on the entire minority group as a whole.

well that is fair. well done you, you make me very proud to be a settled person. Actually by your reasoning I am a racist also. Cos you have shown the trait then therefore I must be the same!

Greenacres

Maybe I should google settled people behaving badly, cos that never happens.

'the kind of mentality these people have' ....... do you actually read what you post??

Greenacres

Pandaboo I think it is a reflection on us the settled community that you don't have pride in your heritage. It upsets me greatly that an Irish person would feel the need to be ashamed of their background. So much good work goes on in your community. Get involved, challenge yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COa4n3DtxRA

Irish Guitarist

Greenacres wrote: »

Maybe I should google settled people behaving badly, cos that never happens.

'the kind of mentality these people have' ....... do you actually read what you post??

I'm talking about the people that make these kind of videos. I'd say the same about a bunch of violent water protesters starting fights with gardai and blaming the gardai for defending themselves. Or the type of people that follow politicians around the street shouting abuse and filming it.

Greenacres

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I'm talking about the people that make these kind of videos. I'd say the same about a bunch of violent water protesters starting fights with gardai and blaming the gardai for defending themselves. Or the type of people that follow politicians around the street shouting abuse and filming it.

Social media plays a very powerful role today, it has exposed so much that is going on that the mainstream media decide that we dont 'need' to know. The streets of London were flooded with anti austerity protestors after recent elections. I know that from 'these people' filming what is actually going on. Mainstream news did not report this accurately at all. 'these kind of videos' give people back their power, watch behaviour of those who would normally abuse their position of power change dramatically as soon as they realise they are being recorded. Damn right it should. They should always behave as if they are being monitored. Damn right she took out her phone and recorded what was going on, anyone who is happy with their behaviour and confident it is appropriate should have no problem with being filmed.


Politicians have devastated nearly every section of vulnerable people in Ireland over the last number of years in the name of 'we f*cked up so you are hopefully too weak to stand up for yourself'. I would be on the street shouting at them too if I was told my child at reaching 7 has my single parents payment stopped. They are some of the highest paid policians per capita in the world, god love them for getting shouted at when they shaft us yet again.

Nodin

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I'm talking about the people that make these kind of videos. I'd say the same about a bunch of violent water protesters starting fights with gardai and blaming the gardai for defending themselves. Or the type of people that follow politicians around the street shouting abuse and filming it.

People who make videos = bad.

I see no flaw in your logic.

Irish Guitarist

Nodin wrote: »

People who make videos = bad.

I see no flaw in your logic.

Yes. People who make videos are bad. That's exactly what I said. Well done.

MathDebater

settled privilege

This sort of nonsensical skullduggery seems to be slowly making its way across the atlantic from North America. Not good. They choose to live in halting sites. The state would be only too happy to provide them with 'settled' accommodation. It would remove a major headache for them if the travelling community consigned their nomadic existence to histories dustbin.

kumate_champ07

theres travellers walking by the priest into the church as shes filming, seems like he only has a problem with her

Irish Guitarist

People see what they want to see in videos like this. If someone has a video of wrongdoing by an authority figure then fair play to them but I don't get how anyone can watch the video in the OP and just take it at face value that she's telling the truth. There's absolutely no evidence of what happened before the video started. For all anyone knows she could have been kicked out because she was shouting abuse at someone in the church.

CarrickMcJoe

The priest couldn't decide if it was a white or a blue dress...

LorMal

whatismyname wrote: »

But my mate was there and said differently, as were some of my other mates and that's not what they said :rolleyes:

Being a bit of a bully here, no?

whatismyname

LorMal wrote: »

Being a bit of a bully here, no?

No.

LorMal

Well said MathDebater. I have the 'privilege' of working really hard every day to pay my mortgage. I'm self employed, pay full taxes, get zero from the state. Oh, the privilege!

Wibbs

meeeeh wrote: »

Yeah the bastards even die on average 20 years sooner than the rest of population. That's how good they have it.

As others have said where does the fault lay there? Their chosen lifestyle directly contributes to this and other issues within the community.

Point of clarification...

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You're familiar with how Jesus came to meet Mary Magdalene though? I presume you're also then aware of her occupation?

Mary Magdalene wasn't a prostitute, nor an adulteress, or fornicator or whatever those sex obsessed middle easterners thought "sinful". This idea came through mixing up two other unconnected women(one also called Mary a very common name at the time). She is not the adulteress about to be stoned. The only comment about her past in the texts is that Jesus cured her of evil spirits or somesuch. This mixing up continued in church and art all the way down to films and the like today. She seems to have been an important figure in the early church(among other women we have only echoes of) and that didn't go down to well with the Roman mind, so they made her a "fallen woman", the yin to the virginal Mary's yang.

Hitchens

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

People see what they want to see in videos like this. If someone has a video of wrongdoing by an authority figure then fair play to them but I don't get how anyone can watch the video in the OP and just take it at face value that she's telling the truth. There's absolutely no evidence of what happened before the video started. For all anyone knows she could have been kicked out because she was shouting abuse at someone in the church.

But, but, but if it's on YouTube it must be true, no? :)

Sam Kade

whatismyname wrote: »

I'm pretty sure he's not

His job being to get stories, this is just one of many stories he's been seen trying to get today.

Genuine picture and email on the youtube comments, all matches that on his verified twitter account, where he also shared the video direct from their facebook, and earlier in the day he was tweeting people who shared the video trying to track down the woman.

Not a total weirdo for knowing this, just took me about a minute to see it.

and the storyful news is some sh1t rag from New York

Egginacup

Candie wrote: »

I don't think there's such a thing as a right to enter a church. If you're not dressed appropriately you won't be allowed into a mosque or a synagogue either.

I've seen all kinds of attire in churches. I don't go anymore but when I was younger I did. I remember being shocked on Sunday to see two men in the small parish church in Cork. They were filthy. Wellington boots covered in mud/dung, oil stained jeans tucked in and old knobbly jumpers with bits of straw in them. I thought it was the height of irreverence but then again I was only about 10. Looking back they were just farmers who had to do some work on a Sunday and didn't get a chance to change.

I don't see anything wrong with her dress though.

galljga1

Egginacup wrote: »

I've seen all kinds of attire in churches. I don't go anymore but when I was younger I did. I remember being shocked on Sunday to see two men in the small parish church in Cork. They were filthy. Wellington boots covered in mud/dung, oil stained jeans tucked in and old knobbly jumpers with bits of straw in them. I thought it was the height of irreverence but then again I was only about 10. Looking back they were just farmers who had to do some work on a Sunday and didn't get a chance to change.

I don't see anything wrong with her dress though.

They will burn.

Pedro K

Greenacres wrote: »

Video clip that shows small number from a minority group used by privileged member of the majority to make sweeping judgement on the entire minority group as a whole.

well that is fair. well done you, you make me very proud to be a settled person. Actually by your reasoning I am a racist also. Cos you have shown the trait then therefore I must be the same!

Is there any problem with criminality in the travelling community, in your opinion?

galljga1

Pedro K wrote: »

Is there any problem with criminality in the travelling community, in your opinion?

Yes. There is also a problem with criminality in the settled community.

Pedro K

galljga1 wrote: »

Yes. There is also a problem with criminality in the settled community.

And per capita, in which community would you say the bigger problem lies?

Greenacres

MathDebater wrote: »

This sort of nonsensical skullduggery seems to be slowly making its way across the atlantic from North America. Not good. They choose to live in halting sites. The state would be only too happy to provide them with 'settled' accommodation. It would remove a major headache for them if the travelling community consigned their nomadic existence to histories dustbin.

You obviously do not understand what privilege means. Those who have it usually don't.

You get up in the morning and do not have to give a second thought about whether a business will serve you or deny you access. You have privilege.
You are not followed around shops by security without cause. You have privilege.
You send off a CV and your application is not filtered and dumped when your surname and address is read. You have privilege.
People in your family have completed second level education and quite often go on to 3rd level. You are supported throughout this process and have people around you to advise. You have privilege.

There are people in every society born with more privilege than others.
'Nonsensical Skullduggery'?? Only someone with in a privileged position who is not born into immediate social disadvantage would even think this.

Privileged to pay your mortgage? Absolutely! You were lent money to buy a house, no doubt you have a secure job that allowed you to do this.......

marie065

Ok i.m not going to all the posts here !!
But i myself was there at the church (i.m not a traveller) my son was making his communion aswell. This priest sent out an a4 letter before the communion stating all the reasons we would be refused into the church!!! Mini skirts, fake tan, big dresses etc were to name a few!!! No limos were to come to the church!!!
i walked into the front hall of the church with my oldest and youngest son who is 8 months old! The priest was standing at the door he turned pointed at me and said if that child cries during mass to take him out of here straight away with pure ignorance!!!! Only for my son was making his comminion i would of went home i was fuming!!!
I walked outside for a minute then heard commotion again this lady had gone in and he told her she wasnt getting in dressed like that he said to change before mass started. She said no there's nothing wrong with what i.m wearing others had entered the church with similar attire i myself had a dress on nearly as short !!! He said she wasnt getting in. The guards were call and went out to check her car for tax and insurance (not sure why) thats why she mention it in the video !!!
It was a disgrace in this day and age i.ve never seen anyone refused entry i to the church no matter what there wearing i.ve seen a lot worse !!!! This lady was nicely dressed!!

galljga1

Pedro K wrote: »

And per capita, in which community would you say the bigger problem lies?

I am actively involved with our local text alert scheme and thus have gotten to know a lot of guards, local and Dublin based. Their general opinion is that travellers are responsible for 60% of rural burglaries. Anecdotal, I know.
Travellers, settled and not, are actively involved in and effectively run the drug trade all over the midland and in parts of Dublin, not sure about elsewhere. Apart from that, they are grand lads.

kylith

In situations like this I wonder whether Jesus would turn people away because of how they were dressed.

Was it Ghandi who said "I like Christ but I don't like Christians. Christians are nothing like Christ".

Greenacres

Pedro K wrote: »

Is there any problem with criminality in the travelling community, in your opinion?

Opinions are not very useful with complex issues around minorities and the prejudices that people have are really disturbing.

There are criminals in every section of society. Yes, there is an over representation of Traveller men in the prison population and it is very distressing. But this is a reflection on society. Please read the Irish Prisons report on the Travellers in the prison system before you decide what to take from that. We need to move away from the petty accusations and individual blame. That suits the government down to the ground. They are the ones that have failed the travelling community for generations and have us where we are today..... Totally divided and an unacceptable number of the settled people who think they have the right to judge.

SEPT 23 1989

galljga1 wrote: »

Yes. There is also a problem with criminality in the settled community.

have 30% of the settled community gone through the Irish prison system at some point in their lives?

One eyed Jack

Greenacres wrote: »

You obviously do not understand what privilege means. Those who have it usually don't.

You get up in the morning and do not have to give a second thought about whether a business will serve you or deny you access. You have privilege.
You are not followed around shops by security without cause. You have privilege.
You send off a CV and your application is not filtered and dumped when your surname and address is read. You have privilege.
People in your family have completed second level education and quite often go on to 3rd level. You are supported throughout this process and have people around you to advise. You have privilege.

There are people in every society born with more privilege than others.
'Nonsensical Skullduggery'?? Only someone with in a privileged position who is not born into immediate social disadvantage would even think this.

Privileged to pay your mortgage? Absolutely! You were lent money to buy a house, no doubt you have a secure job that allowed you to do this.......

That whole "privilege" nonsense doesn't help anyone, honestly. It's a completely intangible concept that has no value and is therefore utterly useless in addressing issues with regard to discrimination.

All you're doing is attempting to guilt trip people with it, and it doesn't work. Instead what you should be addressing is ways in which to help people overcome discrimination, not feed into a bloody victim mentality from your own "position of privilege" (such an utterly cringeworthy phrase it's impossible to take seriously!).

There's no reason anyone from any background can't do any of the things you mention above. They just have to want to do it for themselves, rather than have you teach them that guilt tripping other people to give them something is the way to create opportunities for themselves.

Dyr

Greenacres wrote: »

You obviously do not understand what privilege means. Those who have it usually don't.

You get up in the morning and do not have to give a second thought about whether a business will serve you or deny you access. You have privilege.
You are not followed around shops by security without cause. You have privilege.
You send off a CV and your application is not filtered and dumped when your surname and address is read. You have privilege.
People in your family have completed second level education and quite often go on to 3rd level. You are supported throughout this process and have people around you to advise. You have privilege.

I could tick all bar the first of those statements and say I didn't have that privilege

I managed to avoid a life of treating animals like dirt and dodging tax despite this lack of privilege.

snubbleste

Didn't Jesus wear a short skirt* on the cross?

*loin cloth

Dyr

snubbleste wrote: »

Didn't Jesus wear a short skirt* on the cross?

*loin cloth

That was what people wore on crosses back then, bit like swimming togs nowadays

MathDebater

We need to move away from the petty accusations and individual blame

Bit rich when you're trying to remove blame from the community itself and instead place it firmly at the feet of the general population. When half your population pop their clogs before their 40th birthday, it's time for a bit of introspection. We can play the blame game, throw more money at the problem and set up countless number of programmes. Won't make much of an improvement in their quality of life unless they start to embrace education, modern healthcare and move away from the more negative aspects of their culture.

They are the ones that have failed the travelling community for generations and have us where we are today

The government are to blame for the travellers not sending their children to school, their extremely high levels of criminality and self destructive behaviour?

Greenacres

Bambi wrote: »

I could tick all bar the first of those statements and say I didn't have that privilege

I managed to avoid a life of treating animals like dirt and dodging tax despite this lack of privilege.

I am not suggesting everyone else in Ireland is without their struggles. None of us should experience anything that I described. Too many do, not just travellers.

Shame really that you feel you have the right to make a prejudiced comment about a whole group of people.

sbsquarepants

Aidric wrote: »

'I have tax and insurance on that car'...lols

I bet she didn't. Fúcking shower of chancers!:D

galljga1

Local petrolstation/hardware: Traveller father paying for diesel gave his young lad a clip on the ear after trying to walk out with a pair of boltcutters saying "I told you before not to steal from shops that we do business with".

Read into that what you will.

Carlos Orange

Greenacres wrote: »

We need to move away from the petty accusations and personal responsibility.

ftfy

autumnrain

I stood back from this for a day thinking that there must be an explanation for the priests behaviour. All across this country, this month, I know teachers, parents & priests who went to great trouble to make sure no child felt awkward or no scandal eclipsed the children's big day. Special chairs for girls whose hopped dresses were too large to fit into benches, arrangements for parking of over large cars, microphones moved for those who couldn't walk up steps. Virtually all parishes have a parents meeting to discuss the day so there is no debate on the children's special day.
As a Catholic I abhor the behaviour of a priest standing at a door judging who gets to come in. It is a sin and a scandal which politicises the Eucharist, That priest stood between God and that family and said 'I don't think you are good enough!' - I find that unacceptable regardless of circumstances.
I have some sympathy for anyone whose reputation is utterly destroyed by social media. One awful decision should not define a person. However I doubt he can offer any way forward now. The Bishop of Galway is chief catechist and symbol of unity for the diocese. He should be meeting all involved, especially those asking for pastoral care and access to sacraments, immediately.
This is not a political or image issue. It's an issue of pastoral care and the whole parish need leadership and diocesan support to heal.

Greenacres

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That whole "privilege" nonsense doesn't help anyone, honestly. It's a completely intangible concept that has no value and is therefore utterly useless in addressing issues with regard to discrimination.

All you're doing is attempting to guilt trip people with it, and it doesn't work. Instead what you should be addressing is ways in which to help people overcome discrimination, not feed into a bloody victim mentality from your own "position of privilege" (such an utterly cringeworthy phrase it's impossible to take seriously!).

There's no reason anyone from any background can't do any of the things you mention above. They just have to want to do it for themselves, rather than have you teach them that guilt tripping other people to give them something is the way to create opportunities for themselves.

Privilege isn't some nonsensical notion that I have plucked from the air. It is a fact in every society. Social privilege, financial privilege. I am really at a loss as to why you would deny it exists. People with it should recognise they have it. 'They have to want to do it themselves'? It is way more complex than this. 'there is no reason....' Yes there is!!

PandaPoo

autumnrain wrote: »

I stood back from this for a day thinking that there must be an explanation for the priests behaviour. All across this country, this month, I know teachers, parents & priests who went to great trouble to make sure no child felt awkward or no scandal eclipsed the children's big day. Special chairs for girls whose hopped dresses were too large to fit into benches, arrangements for parking of over large cars, microphones moved for those who couldn't walk up steps. Virtually all parishes have a parents meeting to discuss the day so there is no debate on the children's special day.
As a Catholic I abhor the behaviour of a priest standing at a door judging who gets to come in. It is a sin and a scandal which politicises the Eucharist, That priest stood between God and that family and said 'I don't think you are good enough!' - I find that unacceptable regardless of circumstances.
I have some sympathy for anyone whose reputation is utterly destroyed by social media. One awful decision should not define a person. However I doubt he can offer any way forward now. The Bishop of Galway is chief catechist and symbol of unity for the diocese. He should be meeting all involved, especially those asking for pastoral care and access to sacraments, immediately.
This is not a political or image issue. It's an issue of pastoral care and the whole parish need leadership and diocesan support to heal.

If it was a mosque there would be no uproar. There is a dress code, like it or not.
Perhaps he was picking on her purely because she's a traveller, we won't know. If she was dressed in a trouser suit he probably couldn't have found a reason to refuse her entry.

snubbleste

PandaPoo wrote: »

If it was a mosque there would be no uproar. There is a dress code, like it or not.

Maybe she should try that! See what happens. There'll be no segregation in this country, I'm a female traveller how dare you etc etc etc

Pedro K

Greenacres wrote: »

Opinions are not very useful with complex issues around minorities and the prejudices that people have are really disturbing.

There are criminals in every section of society. Yes, there is an over representation of Traveller men in the prison population and it is very distressing. But this is a reflection on society. Please read the Irish Prisons report on the Travellers in the prison system before you decide what to take from that. We need to move away from the petty accusations and individual blame. That suits the government down to the ground. They are the ones that have failed the travelling community for generations and have us where we are today..... Totally divided and an unacceptable number of the settled people who think they have the right to judge.

Link

What about this piece of information?

Traveller women make up 0.5% of population but represent 15% of service users.

and this

37% of women accessing refuge identified themselves as Travellers

Who is responsible for that? The government? The settled community? Or the travelling community?

Sam Kade

Egginacup wrote: »

I've seen all kinds of attire in churches. I don't go anymore but when I was younger I did. I remember being shocked on Sunday to see two men in the small parish church in Cork. They were filthy. Wellington boots covered in mud/dung, oil stained jeans tucked in and old knobbly jumpers with bits of straw in them. I thought it was the height of irreverence but then again I was only about 10. Looking back they were just farmers who had to do some work on a Sunday and didn't get a chance to change.

I don't see anything wrong with her dress though.

Did you even know what irreverence meant at 10 years old?

lukesmom

On another note but keeping within the same theme, my niece made her communion last week. And when the ceremony was over in walked young Rihanna in her huge sparkly ott communion dress. It had layers and layers of tulle and hundreds of rhinestones attached. She wore a crown about 10 inches high and was tanned to within an inch of her life. Her mother looked quite similar to the lady in the above video. So she missed her communion as was an hour and a half late due to getting all dolled up. Couldn't believe our eyes.