8th Amendment

130Kph

Black Menorca wrote: »

Life's too short to get hung up on it.

Well, bodily integrity & coerced pregnancies are very serious issues for most reasonable people. But if you see this aspect of the debate as something to be lightly dismissed & joked about, so be it.

It’s a non-issue for you, that’s absolutely fine.

Zubeneschamali

130Kph wrote: »

It’s a non-issue for you, that’s absolutely fine.

The sad fact is that it's a non-issue for most Irish voters. Most can afford, or their husbands or parents or boyfriends can afford to organize an abortion via Ireland's abortion industry, off-shored in the UK.

It's only people stuck in the cracks of the legal system and people already in the grips of our so-called maternity services who are victimized by the 8th amendment.

ProfessorPlum

Black Menorca wrote: »

The Y case was caused by Hope's mother wanting him dead, but the 8th saved his life.

After reading the last few pages, I'm inclined to think you must be trolling.
But none the less, let me explain. Miss Y applied for a termination on the back of legislation enacted to deal with the 8th amendment. That amendment enshrined the right to life of her foetus, but also compelled us to give due regard to her equal right to life. Without the 8th amendment, we would not have the POLDP Act. Without that act I can not think of any case where a baby would be delivered so prematurely unless necessary for the wellbeing of the baby or the physical wellbeing of the mother. I have heard of no other such case.
So thanks to the 8th amendment we have a severely traumatised young woman, and a child who will likely never live an independant life. For no particularly good reason. If you thing this is a triumph, I pity you.

PopePalpatine

Black Menorca wrote: »

When will the abortion lobby allow Savita rest in peace?

When will that Legatus money run out?

anothernight

Black Menorca wrote: »

Her innocent baby should not be exterminated or harmed in any way.

That is not an answer to what I asked. Please reply to my question. Is the unwanted pregnancy of a woman who was forced into sex through rape, her duty?
Yes/No

PopePalpatine

anothernight wrote: »

That is not an answer to what I asked. Please reply to my question. Is the unwanted pregnancy of a woman who was forced into sex through rape, her duty?
Yes/No

"Yes, because she shouldn't have worn those clothes/been so drunk."

K-9

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Are you butthurt that the Magdalenekazetten are closed?

Mod:

Up the standard please, comments like that don't help the thread at all.

Black Menorca

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Well, if you ignore the 4000 or so abortions of Irish unborns happening every year, yeah!

Well done pro-life movement! Preventing abortions for prisoners, the mentally ill and asylum seekers in Ireland since 1983!

Every unborn life saved is to be celebrated.

Black Menorca

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

When we repeal the 8th

your honesty is appreciated.

Savita will continue to be morbidly peddled by the abortion lobby.

Black Menorca

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

After reading the last few pages, I'm inclined to think you must be trolling.
But none the less, let me explain. Miss Y applied for a termination on the back of legislation enacted to deal with the 8th amendment. That amendment enshrined the right to life of her foetus, but also compelled us to give due regard to her equal right to life. Without the 8th amendment, we would not have the POLDP Act. Without that act I can not think of any case where a baby would be delivered so prematurely unless necessary for the wellbeing of the baby or the physical wellbeing of the mother. I have heard of no other such case.
So thanks to the 8th amendment we have a severely traumatised young woman, and a child who will likely never live an independant life. For no particularly good reason. If you thing this is a triumph, I pity you.

The 8th, backed up by X Legislation saved Hope's life.

Black Menorca

anothernight wrote: »

That is not an answer to what I asked. Please reply to my question. Is the unwanted pregnancy of a woman who was forced into sex through rape, her duty?
Yes/No

Clearly, yes.

Neil3030

Black Menorca wrote: »

your honesty is appreciated.

Savita will continue to be morbidly peddled by the abortion lobby.

If only such concern for her well being could have been extended her way while she was alive.

Black Menorca

Not even Kitty Holland believes the abortion lobby's spin on Savita's tragic death.

Black Menorca

Neil3030 wrote: »

If only such concern for her well being could have been extended her way while she was alive.

Indeed.

The abortion lobby's abuse of her memory is sickening.

Neil3030

Black Menorca wrote: »

Indeed.

The abortion lobby's abuse of her memory is sickening.

I find pro-life inspired fatal abuse of her body to be far more sickening, tbh.

anothernight

Black Menorca wrote: »

Indeed.

The abortion lobby's abuse of her memory is sickening.

Is Savita's husband also part of this 'abortion lobby'?

Black Menorca

Neil3030 wrote: »

I find pro-life inspired fatal abuse of her body to be far more sickening, tbh.

Three reports written and none back your assertion up.

But don't let that stop you.

Black Menorca

anothernight wrote: »

Is Savita's husband also part of this 'abortion lobby'?

I have no idea.

anothernight

Black Menorca wrote: »

I have no idea.

I ask because he clearly wanted his wife to survive the pregnancy, and from the news reports it sounds like he'd have supported the termination to save her life. Doesn't that mean he's 'abusing her memory', according to you?

He said he had pleaded with medical staff at Galway university hospital for his wife to be given an emergency termination to save her life.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/19/savita-abortion-widower-barbaric-hospital

Black Menorca

anothernight wrote: »

I ask because he clearly wanted his wife to survive the pregnancy, and from the news reports it sounds like he'd have supported the termination to save her life. Doesn't that mean he's 'abusing her memory', according to you?



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/19/savita-abortion-widower-barbaric-hospital

So he says.

anothernight

Black Menorca wrote: »

So he says.

What, you think he was hoping that his wife would be denied treatment, and just doesn't want to admit it?

I ask, do you think Savita's husband is abusing her memory too, as you're accusing other posters on this thread of doing? A Yes/No answer will suffice.

Black Menorca

anothernight wrote: »

What, you think he was hoping that his wife would be denied treatment, and just doesn't want to admit it?

What a strange question to ask.

The abortion lobby are continuing to morbidly abuse Savita's death in their continued advocacy for abortion in this country.

To my knowledge, he's not posting in this thread, nor is he lobbying for abortion in Ireland.

Zubeneschamali

Black Menorca wrote: »

So he says.

So the poor guy is a liar, now, too?

What a charmer you are.

anothernight

Black Menorca wrote: »

What a strange question to ask.

The abortion lobby are continuing to morbidly abuse Savita's death in their continued advocacy for abortion in this country.

To my knowledge, he's not posting in this thread, nor is he lobbying for abortion in Ireland.

He wishes his wife had a termination to save her life. You're accusing other posters of abusing her memory by saying that she should have had a termination to save her life. You honestly can't see the similarity there?

EDIT: You also didn't specify whether you think Savita's husband is lying there. To remind you, I said "What, you think he was hoping that his wife would be denied treatment, and just doesn't want to admit it?"

Black Menorca

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So the poor guy is a liar, now, too?

What a charmer you are.

Not even Kitty would stand over his account. Did you not listen to her interview in the YT clip?

Black Menorca

anothernight wrote: »

He wishes his wife had a termination to save her life. You're accusing other posters of abusing her memory by saying that she should have had a termination to save her life. You honestly can't see the similarity there?

EDIT: You also didn't specify whether you think Savita's husband is lying there. To remind you, I said "What, you think he was hoping that his wife would be denied treatment, and just doesn't want to admit it?"

Like Kitty, I have no idea of the veracity of his comments.

anothernight

Black Menorca wrote: »

Like Kitty, I have no idea of the veracity of his comments.

So, let's be clear on this. You think there is a chance that the grieving husband of the late Savita Halappanavar was lying?

Just out of curiosity. Let's assume he's not lying, and he actually wanted his wife to get the life-saving termination. Would he, in your opinion, be 'abusing her memory', as you have accused other posters in this thread?

volchitsa

Black Menorca wrote: »

Like Kitty, I have no idea of the veracity of his comments.

Except that that video was from long before the investigations into her death, and now we do know that he was telling the truth.

Except you apparently, who still doesn't tbelieve him. But I think that says more about you than about anything else.

Black Menorca

anothernight wrote: »

So, let's be clear on this. You think there is a chance that the grieving husband of the late Savita Halappanavar was lying?

Just out of curiosity. Let's assume he's not lying, and he actually wanted his wife to get the life-saving termination. Would he, in your opinion, be 'abusing her memory', as you have accused other posters in this thread?

Like Kitty, I have no idea if there's any truth in the assertion that an abortion was sought when he claims it was made.

As I've said already, to my knowledge, he's not posting here nor is he a lobbyist for the abortion industry.

anothernight

I'm going to ignore your complete lack of respect to a grieving widower.

Black Menorca wrote: »

As I've said already, to my knowledge, he's not posting here nor is he a lobbyist for the abortion industry.

Sigh. I'll try again.

You are accusing other posters of abusing the memory of Savita Halappanavar, when all they have done is say or imply that she should have had a life-saving termination. Her husband did the same thing, say or imply that she should have had a life-saving termination.

Does this mean, in your opinion, that he's abusing her memory?

Whether he's posting on boards.ie or not is utterly irrelevant. He did more than the posters here have done, by going to the Irish (and international) media to speak out about the issue.

swampgas

Black Menorca wrote: »

Every unborn life saved is to be celebrated.

I suppose the poor woman (or girl) stuck with the unwanted pregnancy should just grin and bear it, while you celebrate the fact that she was forced to endure a pregnancy she really didn't want.

Funny how you can have so much empathy for an "unborn life" which might not even have a nervous system, yet be indifferent to the point of cruelty to a living, breathing, thinking, feeling woman.

Do you think women who don't want to go through with a pregnancy deserve to be punished for some reason ???

Black Menorca

anothernight wrote: »

I'm going to ignore your complete lack of respect to a grieving widower.



Sigh. I'll try again.

You are accusing other posters of abusing the memory of Savita Halappanavar, when all they have done is say or imply that she should have had a life-saving termination. Her husband did the same thing, say or imply that she should have had a life-saving termination.

Does this mean, in your opinion, that he's abusing her memory?

Whether he's posting on boards.ie or not is utterly irrelevant. He did more than the posters here have done, by going to the Irish (and international) media to speak out about the issue.

My comments refer to Irish , I assume, posters here who continue to abuse the memory of Savita in their campaign to introduce abortion into this country.

Shamefully in my view.

Black Menorca

swampgas wrote: »

I suppose the poor woman (or girl) stuck with the unwanted pregnancy should just grin and bear it, while you celebrate the fact that she was forced to endure a pregnancy she really didn't want.

Funny how you can have so much empathy for an "unborn life" which might not even have a nervous system, yet be indifferent to the point of cruelty to a living, breathing, thinking, feeling woman.

Do you think women who don't want to go through with a pregnancy deserve to be punished for some reason ???

Life is full of responsibilities of many shapes and sizes.

One such responsibility is the onerous one on pregnant women to do no intentional harm to their unborn children.

swampgas

Black Menorca wrote: »

Life is full of responsibilities of many shapes and sizes.

One such responsibility is the onerous one on pregnant women to do no intentional harm to their unborn children.

What about the responsibility to treat other people with respect and dignity? What makes you think that your opinion on abortion should be enforced on everyone else?

Also the way you keep talking about "unborn children" makes it sound like you think there is a toddler bouncing around in the uterus of a woman who is a few weeks pregnant. That is simply not the case.

Black Menorca

swampgas wrote: »

What about the responsibility to treat other people with respect and dignity? What makes you think that your opinion on abortion should be enforced on everyone else?

Also the way you keep talking about "unborn children" makes it sound like you think there is a toddler bouncing around in the uterus of a woman who is a few weeks pregnant. That is simply not the case.

It is not I, but the Law of the land that puts such responsibilities on pregnant women. I happen to support it fully, while advocating that every support possible be available to the mother as she goes through the pregnancy process.

The barbarity of abortion is not condoned in this country, of that I am immensely proud.

anothernight

Black Menorca wrote: »

My comments refer to Irish , I assume, posters here who continue to abuse the memory of Savita in their campaign to introduce abortion into this country.

Shamefully in my view.

That doesn't explain why you're not accusing Savita's husband of abusing her memory, even though he did much more 'lobbying', by virtue of going to the media, than the posters here ever did.

Is it because he's not Irish? I'm not Irish either, fyi.

swampgas

Black Menorca wrote: »

It is not I, but the Law of the land that puts such responsibilities on pregnant women. I happen to support it fully, while advocating that every support possible be available to the mother as she goes through the pregnancy process.

The barbarity of abortion is not condoned in this country, of that I am immensely proud.

Actually the law also says that a woman can freely leave the country to access abortion, so the law only puts such responsibilities on women who cannot travel abroad. That doesn't seem to be very consistent from an ethical point of view.

As for supporting women - that's pretty weak. If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, supporting her through pregnancy is ignoring the very fact that she really doesn't want to be pregnant. It's obtuse and cruel.

Your opinion that abortion is a "barbarity" is not shared by everyone. It's certainly not the majority view in most of the developed world. Again, why do you think your aversion and distaste for abortion should be imposed on everyone else?

.

oscarBravo

Black Menorca wrote: »

anothernight wrote: »

Is the unwanted pregnancy of a woman who was forced into sex through rape, her duty?

Clearly, yes.

And there's the compassion and empathy of the "pro-life" campaign in all its glory: an 11 year old girl raped by her father has a duty to remain pregnant.

Please, please keep posting.

Black Menorca

swampgas wrote: »

Actually the law also says that a woman can freely leave the country to access abortion, so the law only puts such responsibilities on women who cannot travel abroad. That doesn't seem to be very consistent from an ethical point of view.

As for supporting women - that's pretty weak. If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, supporting her through pregnancy is ignoring the very fact that she really doesn't want to be pregnant. It's obtuse and cruel.

Your opinion that abortion is a "barbarity" is not shared by everyone. It's certainly not the majority view in most of the developed world. Again, why do you think your aversion and distaste for abortion should be imposed on everyone else?

.

Sadly true.

But that makes me even more proud of stance we take as a nation in defence of mothers and their unborn babies, despite the pressure from the abortion friendly Western World.

Black Menorca

oscarBravo wrote: »

And there's the compassion and empathy of the "pro-life" campaign in all its glory: an 11 year old girl raped by her father has a duty to remain pregnant.

Please, please keep posting.

All these Irish 11 year olds getting pregnant by rape. Is that how desperate the abortion lobby is getting to justify the opening of the floodgates to abortion on request?

swampgas

Black Menorca wrote: »

Sadly true.

But that makes me even more proud of stance we take as a nation in defence of mothers and their unborn babies, despite the pressure from the abortion friendly Western World.

You make it sound like we "as a nation" are of one mind on this issue. We're not. Plenty of Irish people, probably a significant majority, are in favour of relaxing the almost absolute bar on abortion that currently exists.

What makes you more important than many other Irish citizens, that your take on abortion should be mandated for everyone else?

Just because you're proud doesn't make you right.

Black Menorca

swampgas wrote: »

You make it sound like we "as a nation" are of one mind on this issue. We're not. Plenty of Irish people, probably a significant majority, are in favour of relaxing the almost absolute bar on abortion that currently exists.

What makes you more important than many other Irish citizens, that your take on abortion should be mandated for everyone else?

Just because you're proud doesn't make you right.

Still doesn't make me any less proud.

swampgas

Black Menorca wrote: »

Still doesn't make me any less proud.

So you're proud of keeping something that most people are actually in favour of changing.

Have you ever met anyone who had an abortion?

anothernight

Black Menorca wrote: »

All these Irish 11 year olds getting pregnant by rape. Is that how desperate the abortion lobby is getting to justify the opening of the floodgates to abortion on request?

Actually, many, many people who consider themselves pro-choice don't agree with 'abortion on request'. It's a very nuanced issue, regardless of how black&white your own views might be. A single Irish 11 year old getting pregnant by rape, and being forced to suffer horrible consequences (including a risk to her life), is already one too many.

Now, will you please address my question?

anothernight wrote: »

That doesn't explain why you're not accusing Savita's husband of abusing her memory, even though he did much more 'lobbying', by virtue of going to the media, than the posters here ever did.

Is it because he's not Irish? I'm not Irish either, fyi.

Black Menorca

swampgas wrote: »

So you're proud of keeping something that most people are actually in favour of changing.

Have you ever met anyone who had an abortion?

I'm proud that Ireland, through the 8th and X legislation, is a bulwark against the abortion industry. Yes. Make no apologies for it either.

Black Menorca

anothernight wrote: »

Actually, many, many people who consider themselves pro-choice don't agree with 'abortion on request'. It's a very nuanced issue, regardless of how black&white your own views might be. A single Irish 11 year old getting pregnant by rape, and being forced to suffer horrible consequences (including a risk to her life), is already one too many.

Now, will you please address my question?

I have done, twice already. If you don't like my answer, fair enough.

I'm really not that important. Seriously.

traprunner

Black Menorca wrote: »

I have done, twice already. If you don't like my answer, fair enough.

I'm really not that important. Seriously.

You obviously are because you said in a previous thread that this is your next big political campaign after you lost the same sex marriage one.

Black Menorca

traprunner wrote: »

You obviously are because you said in a previous thread that this is your next big political campaign after you lost the same sex marriage one.

I most definitely did not say that.

There are other political priorities over the coming 12 months other than abortion.

But if the 8th comes under attack, I will do all in my humble power to defend it.

anothernight

Black Menorca wrote: »

I have done, twice already. If you don't like my answer, fair enough.

I'm really not that important. Seriously.

You didn't. You dodged it by saying that you're only accusing Irish posters of abusing the memory of Savita Halappanavar. My question this time was: is it because he's not Irish that you think he's not abusing her memory?

Black Menorca wrote: »

I'm proud that Ireland, through the 8th and X legislation, is a bulwark against the abortion industry. Yes. Make no apologies for it either.

Black Menorca

anothernight wrote: »

You didn't. You dodged it by saying that you're only accusing Irish posters of abusing the memory of Savita Halappanavar. My question this time was: is it because he's not Irish that you think he's not abusing her memory?

His nationality is irrelevant. Though India is hardly a paragon for Child Rights, now that you've bring it up. Is he posting here?