What would you like the next referendum to legalise abortion or euthanasia?

freshpopcorn

What would you like the next referendum to legalise abortion or euthanasia?

Riskymove

I am not aware of any push for euthanasia.

Although I would like to see the issues around "assisted suicide" dealt with as demonstrated in recent cases.


also "legalise abortion" is far too broad

smash

Can we have an options for divorce laws?

neil_

Euthanasia. Futurama-style suicide booths.

MayoAreMagic

Gay divorce?

RayM

Our abortion laws should be brought in line with the rest of the civilised, secular world.

jessiejam

I think personal choice of either should be legalised.

I wouldn't be in favour of abortion myself, but if i was raped by someone then I would certainly have to consider it. And I would like to have the choice rather than having to travel across the water for it.
Also if it were to be legalised, then I think it shouldn't be allowed after the 12 week mark.

Euthanasia again should be a personal choice, the way some people are living through a chronic terminal illness is awful. To be able to die with dignity and not in pain should be allowed.

If an animal had a terminal illness we wouldn't hesitate in helping to put them to sleep. Doesn't seem fair that we dont give humans the same respect.

smash

jessiejam wrote: »

I wouldn't be in favour of abortion myself, but if i was raped by someone then I would certainly have to consider it. And I would like to have the choice rather than having to travel across the water for it.

I think everyone should have the choice disregarding the circumstances.

jessiejam wrote: »

Also if it were to be legalised, then I think it shouldn't be allowed after the 12 week mark.

Some hospitals now will only do the first scan at 22 weeks (Holles St for example). Maybe it's a catholic thing to stop people aborting a disabled foetus, I don't know. But taking that into consideration I would say that 12 weeks is too early for a cut off.

eviltwin

I'd like to see both but I think abortion is a more important issue, it affects more people than assisted suicide.

silverfeather

RayM wrote: »

Our abortion laws should be brought in line with the rest of the civilised, secular world.

Here here!

DareGod

I think assisted suicide is much more important than abortion. People are living / slowly dying with horrendous pain, and our nation is forcing them to do so, threatening prison and legal action if they seek help for a peaceful end to their pain. It's absolutely barbaric and I'm tired of it being trivialised.

DareGod

eviltwin wrote: »

I'd like to see both but I think abortion is a more important issue, it affects more people than assisted suicide.

You think that the issue of people who get pregnant and decide not to keep the baby is a more important issue than helping people to put an end to their chronic unimaginable suffering?

And if you're referring to pregnant rape victims, well there are far more people living with horrific pain every day than there are pregnant rape victims.

kidneyfan

Next referendum get rid of divorce.

eviltwin

DareGod wrote: »

You think that the issue of people who get pregnant and decide not to keep the baby is a more important issue than helping people to put an end to their chronic unimaginable suffering?

And if you're referring to pregnant rape victims, well there are far more people living with horrific pain every day than there are pregnant rape victims.

I'm just basing that on the numbers of women who go to the UK and the numbers of people who are involved in pro choice groups. I don't see much traction for assisted suicide.

smash

DareGod wrote: »

You think that the issue of people who get pregnant and decide not to keep the baby is a more important issue than helping people to put an end to their chronic unimaginable suffering?

I'd say so. I know more people who've had abortions than people who've committed suicide or even attempted it because of 'chronic unimaginable suffering' as you put it.

smash

kidneyfan wrote: »

Next referendum get rid of divorce.

Sorry, what?

Nollog

Why not both?

Give the electorate a headache from all the debates and posters.

Legalise weed next.
Then legalise abortions under 20 weeks.
Then legalise euthanasia.

Or put them all together in a referendum, sit back and eat popcorn.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I'd love to see the eighth amendment repealed, and I believe I'll live to see it, but if it went to the polls tomorrow there wouldn't be a hope of it passing. It'll be a far bigger watershed moment in Ireland's journey away from it's fundy Catholic past than Friday's vote, in my opinion.

And it'll make the debate that's been going on for the past few months look like a teddy bears' tea party, it's going to be a bloodbath.

Sleepy

I'm with /\/ollog, I think we should have a whole heap of them at the same time. If Americans are able to vote on multiple issues at the same time as voting for the myriad different offices they elect, I'm sure we could manage to have referendums on Abortion, Assisted Suicide, Removal of Religion from the Constitution, Gender Neutrality, Ammendments to Divorce Law and removal of the Blasphemy clause in a single trip to the ballot.

smash

Sydney Chilly Magnate wrote: »

I'd love to see the eighth amendment repealed, and I believe I'll live to see it, but if it went to the polls tomorrow there wouldn't be a hope of it passing. It'll be a far bigger watershed moment in Ireland's journey away from it's fundy Catholic past than Friday's vote, in my opinion.

And it'll make the debate that's been going on for the past few months look like a teddy bears' tea party, it's going to be a bloodbath.

Poor choice of words

smash

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm with /\/ollog, I think we should have a whole heap of them at the same time. If Americans are able to vote on multiple issues at the same time as voting for the myriad different offices they elect, I'm sure we could manage to have referendums on Abortion, Assisted Suicide, Removal of Religion from the Constitution, Gender Neutrality, Ammendments to Divorce Law and removal of the Blasphemy clause in a single trip to the ballot.

Can you imagine the crap that Iona would put on all their campaign posters?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm with /\/ollog, I think we should have a whole heap of them at the same time. If Americans are able to vote on multiple issues at the same time as voting for the myriad different offices they elect, I'm sure we could manage to have referendums on Abortion, Assisted Suicide, Removal of Religion from the Constitution, Gender Neutrality, Ammendments to Divorce Law and removal of the Blasphemy clause in a single trip to the ballot.

But the posters...imagine the state of the place :eek:

Un Croissant

How could we legalise abortion or euthanasia? Judging by the logic of the No sides in referendum we would all run out and get euthanized as soon as it's allowed. Kids would start euthanizing themselves because society says it's ok, that's if they survived the mass abortions that would take place.

Telpis!

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm with /\/ollog, I think we should have a whole heap of them at the same time. If Americans are able to vote on multiple issues at the same time as voting for the myriad different offices they elect, I'm sure we could manage to have referendums on Abortion, Assisted Suicide, Removal of Religion from the Constitution, Gender Neutrality, Ammendments to Divorce Law and removal of the Blasphemy clause in a single trip to the ballot.

Considering I know a lot of people that said yes to both referenda in case they voted no wrongly, i can imagine the same happenning with your example.

I'm of the firm belief that had we been voting on equal marriage and repeal the 8th at the same time, equal marriage would have lost as people would have ticked no for both lest they mixed up their votes.

smash

Un Croissant wrote: »

How could we legalise abortion or euthanasia? Judging by the logic of the No sides in referendum we would all run out and get euthanized as soon as it's allowed. Kids would start euthanizing themselves because society says it's ok, that's if they survived the mass abortions that would take place.

Telpis!

No no, you have it all wrong. If we were to vote on abortion or euthanasia then clearly the gays would be renting women in the third world to have abortions and then kill themselves just for the fun or it.

Sleepy

Sydney Chilly Magnate wrote: »

I'd love to see the eighth amendment repealed, and I believe I'll live to see it, but if it went to the polls tomorrow there wouldn't be a hope of it passing.

I think it'll be repealed in our lifetimes but I think were it to go to the polls tomorrow you might be pleasantly surprised.

The Referendum on Human Life in Pregnancy (2002) was a close run contest and there have been many more Irish ladies who've had to take a boat/flight to the UK to have an abortion there since.

Sleepy

smash wrote: »

Can you imagine the crap that Iona would put on all their campaign posters?

With any luck, the twenty or so of the eejits would be too stretched to manage much impact.

Deleted User wrote: »

Considering I know a lot of people that said yes to both referenda in case they voted no wrongly, i can imagine the same happenning with your example.

I'm of the firm belief that had we been voting on equal marriage and repeal the 8th at the same time, equal marriage would have lost as people would have ticked no for both lest they mixed up their votes.

It's rare when I find myself defending the common sense of the common man but I think the average Irish person is more than capable of managing to vote their wishes if the wording of any changes and the ballots themselves are kept relatively free of legal jargon and Irish (have separate ballots available in Irish for the miniscule minority who'll demand the right to tick a box in their hobby language)

Un Croissant

smash wrote: »

No no, you have it all wrong. If we were to vote on abortion or euthanasia then clearly the gays would be renting women in the third world to have abortions and then kill themselves just for the fun or it.

Sure it's all YOLO these days, isn't it?

eviltwin

smash wrote: »

No no, you have it all wrong. If we were to vote on abortion or euthanasia then clearly the gays would be renting women in the third world to have abortions and then kill themselves just for the fun or it.

Imagine the conundrum for Iona :eek: They want women to choose adoption over abortion but now those babies might be adopted by the gays...what to do, what to do!!!

No Voter And Proud

Un Croissant wrote: »

Sure it's all YOLO these days, isn't it?

That's the problem.
We've lost our way as a society. Too many civil freedoms and liberties.

I think if the UK leave the EU we should aswell.

eviltwin

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

That's the problem.
We've lost our way as a society. Too many civil freedoms and liberties.

I think if the UK leave the EU we should aswell.

Some would say we've finally found the society we want to be. You can't argue with the will of the people. I'm sure if your side had won you'd be saying that to the Yes side.

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm with /\/ollog, I think we should have a whole heap of them at the same time. If Americans are able to vote on multiple issues at the same time as voting for the myriad different offices they elect, I'm sure we could manage to have referendums on Abortion, Assisted Suicide, Removal of Religion from the Constitution, Gender Neutrality, Ammendments to Divorce Law and removal of the Blasphemy clause in a single trip to the ballot.

I know more than one person who voted Yes for both the other day because they went blank on while ballot was which and didn't have their glasses. :pac:

I'd probably go with an assisted suicide referendum first. That is, if there's actually something in the constitution than necessitates it. There's a better chance of it passing than abortion passing.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Sleepy wrote: »

I think it'll be repealed in our lifetimes but I think were it to go to the polls tomorrow you might be pleasantly surprised.

The Referendum on Human Life in Pregnancy (2002) was a close run contest and there have been many more Irish ladies who've had to take a boat/flight to the UK to have an abortion there since.

I'd love to think so, and maybe you're right. In ten or even five years I'd have a lot more confidence. But even in my peer group (mid twenties, educated, liberal), it's a fairly divisive issue; by contrast there'd be almost total consensus on things like euthanasia and SSM and nearly every other social issue. Some of that, I think, is down to people going to Catholic schools. I know one woman not much older than me who was taken on a school trip to a YD march for life in 2002.

Even people who are pro-choice in Ireland, a lot of them would be against "abortion on demand/"lifestyle abortions", and the whole "opening the floodgates" angle on the debate might lead a lot of people to vote against repealing.

I do think that one of the most important factors for changing this, even though it's a big ask, is that women are going to have to start talking about having had abortions. Probably every vehement pro-lifer who goes on about "well they should have just kept their knickers on" knows someone who's had one.

FouxDaFaFa

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

That's the problem.
We've lost our way as a society. Too many civil freedoms and liberties.

You're right. I feel too free.

Good thing the constitution explicitly states that my place is in the home and I can't get an abortion until I'm about to die because my 3-week old, non-sentient foetus has the same rights as me.

It's good to feel grounded every now and again.

On the assisted suicide thing, is it actually necessary to have a referendum about it? I was under the impression it could be legislated for without.

No Voter And Proud

eviltwin wrote: »

Some would say we've finally found the society we want to be. You can't argue with the will of the people. I'm sure if your side had won you'd be saying that to the Yes side.

Hitler was voted in by a majority too remember. Democracy sometimes fails.

Oh and, for what it matters, at least where I'm from we respected the institution of marriage. Roscommon - holding the line till the end!

eviltwin

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

Hitler was voted in by a majority too remember. Democracy sometimes fails.

We didn't vote a Nazi into power. We just legalised same sex marriage. Its no big deal.

LDN_Irish

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

Hitler was voted in by a majority too remember. Democracy sometimes fails.

Oh and, for what it matters, at least where I'm from we respected the institution of marriage. Roscommon - holding the line till the end!

Are you Jamie Bryson?

Un Croissant

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

That's the problem.
We've lost our way as a society. Too many civil freedoms and liberties.

I think if the UK leave the EU we should aswell.

Bloody Europe and it's gayness.

Freedom isn't free, it costs folks like you and me. Murica.

frostyjacks

Gay marriage and euthanasia I can live with. Abortion-on-demand would be a line in the sand for me, I don't think I could ever accept it as ethical.

No Voter And Proud

eviltwin wrote: »

We didn't vote a Nazi into power. We just legalised same sex marriage. Its no big deal.

We didn't but democratic process did. The same process that legalized non procreating unions.

LDN_Irish wrote: »

Are you Jamie Bryson?

I'll admit I had to look that one up, no indeed I am not. He's not from our republic anyway so I dont see a connection.

No Voter And Proud

Un Croissant wrote: »

Bloody Europe and it's gayness.

Freedom isn't free, it costs folks like you and me. Murica.

This isn't America though this is Ireland.
Land of saints and scholars no more!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

eviltwin wrote: »

We didn't vote a Nazi into power. We just legalised same sex marriage. Its no big deal.

Oh come on now that's just nitpicking :mad: we're basically Nazis :pac:

Un Croissant

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

Hitler was voted in by a majority too remember. Democracy sometimes fails.

Oh and, for what it matters, at least where I'm from we respected the institution of marriage. Roscommon - holding the line till the end!

The proud Roscommon folk, like the last defenders of Helms Deep as the army of Uruk Gay smash down the back door.

No Voter And Proud

Sydney Chilly Magnate wrote: »

Oh come on now that's just nitpicking :mad: we're basically Nazis :pac:

riight.....

Witcher

Can we have a break from referendums, referendum campaigns and referendum threads for a year at least in the name of fcuk? :pac:

Un Croissant

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

This isn't America though this is Ireland.
Land of saints and scholars no more!

Scholars we ain't. I go to college. Some of my class mates are dumb ****s.

LDN_Irish

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

I'll admit I had to look that one up, no indeed I am not. He's not from our republic anyway so I dont see a connection.

He tweeted the same thing about Hitler the other week. I'll take your word though.

eviltwin

Sydney Chilly Magnate wrote: »

Oh come on now that's just nitpicking :mad: we're basically Nazis :pac:

Gay weddings today, concentration camps tomorrow. Its a slippery slope I tell ya.

Aglomerado

neil_ wrote: »

Euthanasia. Futurama-style suicide booths.

Die-pods. (patent pending)

No Voter And Proud

LDN_Irish wrote: »

He tweeted the same thing about Hitler the other week. I'll take your word though.

I'm sure many people have mentioned it at some point to be fair