S05E07 - The Gift - Have READ the books

Trippie

Just wanted to start this to bring up the Euron and Daario connection again. Am I crazy in thinking Daario's wedding proposal is setting us up for the big reveal that his is Euron? That's why they left out the greyjoys this year as we would recognise him?

Liam O

That's stupid.

Everyone knows Daario is Benjen Stark :P

Son0vagun

That makes prefect sense, after 5-6 beers!

FunLover18

Probably best episode of the season with regard to things actually happening.

So Sansa has reverted back to the same usless moppet who married Joffrey, but disappointing but the flayed woman did serve a purpose. Surprised Ramsey isn't hunting for Brienne, I presumed from the way she was watching the window she was Sands's "friend" and I would have thought the woman would've rattled her out.

Delighted Tyrion and Dany have met thought they might have left it till later.

Can someone remind which season Myrcella was sent to Dorne, they're all tuning into one for me and her remark on Dorne being her home "for years" had me wondering.

I'm guessing Sam won't be going to Oldtown unless Thorne sends him.

The stuff with Bronn and the Sand Snakes was ****e.

Mormegil

FunLover18 wrote: »

Can someone remind which season Myrcella was sent to Dorne, they're all tuning into one for me and her remark on Dorne being her home "for years" had me wondering.

I'm guessing Sam won't be going to Oldtown unless Thorne sends him.

Season 2.


I could see Thorne doing that. Possibly just to annoy Jon when he gets back but the NW does need a new Maester and Sam is the logical candidate.

johnnyskeleton

FunLover18 wrote: »

I'm guessing Sam won't be going to Oldtown unless Thorne sends him.

Or he leaves the watch and marries gilly

Hans Bricks

Good episode plotwise. I'm just anticipating the scene with the White Walkers next week though but ...

That entire Dornish scene between Jamie, Myrcella, Bronn and the Sand Snakes was utterly pointless and awful.

"I want to stay in Dorne Jamie !" *Blank look from Jamie* *Myrcella Storms out*.
"Am I the most beautiful woman in Westeros ?" .... "Yeah".

Such riveting plot and character development.:rolleyes:

Iwasfrozen

Trippie wrote: »

Just wanted to start this to bring up the Euron and Daario connection again. Am I crazy in thinking Daario's wedding proposal is setting us up for the big reveal that his is Euron? That's why they left out the greyjoys this year as we would recognise him?

Unless Daario can be in two places at once he's not Euron.

duploelabs

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Good episode plotwise. I'm just anticipating the scene with the White Walkers next week though but ...

That entire Dornish scene between Jamie, Myrcella, Bronn and the Sand Snakes was utterly pointless and awful.

"I want to stay in Dorne Jamie !" *Blank look from Jamie* *Myrcella Storms out*.
"Am I the most beautiful woman in Westeros ?" .... "Yeah".

Such riveting plot and character development.:rolleyes:

yeah but bewbs

Mickeroo

Bron is getting axed, he's clearly Oakheart now.

Nody

duploelabs wrote: »

yeah but bewbs

Well I guess that's one way to try to get people to give a **** about the sand snakes because their fighting is not going to win them any friends in the audience...

Outkast_IRE

Is it just me or is the material they are changing considerably from the books just much weaker in general than the storylines that hold true to the books.

podgemonster

Sam The sLayer!
:D

Best episode so far this season!

Liam O

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Is it just me or is the material they are changing considerably from the books just much weaker in general than the storylines that hold true to the books.

There's not one storyline that holds true to the books. The sparrows isn't a million miles away I guess. The only character I think is reasonably well handled is Ramsey but that's because he's so well acted and just given a platform to be a cùnt.

I cringed when Melisandre was talking about blood magic and started the list of dead kings but left out Balon. Really bad writing to even reference that scene when he's still bloody alive!

The episode this week was a vast improvement over last week's effort though. It all fit together a good bit better and there was less of a disjointed feeling. The wall scenes have been very good this season imo.

Jofspring

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Is it just me or is the material they are changing considerably from the books just much weaker in general than the storylines that hold true to the books.

I keep saying it. I don't mind deviating from the books to help move along the storyline but since the show has basically taken its own path I think they are making an absolute balls of it.

It's gone from a good interesting show with lots of great story arcs to a predictable one that is going in circles (Sansa storyline). It's like the show runners seem to have decided to try spoon feed the audience like we are a bunch of morons. It's going to way of The Walking Dead with setting things up a mile away and giving blatantly obvious hints of what's to come.

On the episode itself. Glad to see Cersei finally moving towards getting what's coming to her. Not sure why they had the Olenna and Littlefinger conversation where it seemed LF was saying he was going to get lancel to hang cersei out to dry when going by the HIgh Sparrow he had already confessed everything a long time.

Sansa going in what seems like a circle is very disappointing. Having her locked up in the room as Ramsays slave basically doesn't sit right when you consider Roose sees her as a key to the North. Treating her like **** isn't the way to do that and hard to see Roose would have let Ramsay away with it. The new stronger Sansa seems to be either gone already or she was playing it up to Theon and hoping to play on his emotions. Hard to know what way to take it as she went from cowering in her room to challenging Ramsay in the space of 1 day.

Fighting pits were disappointing if that's all we will see of them. Thought it would be a big fight similar to that of Roman fights in the colosseum.

Books wise there is no way Darrio could be Euron but nothing to say the show won't turn it into him being Euron. That or make him Quentyn.

Barr the boobs there was nothing really going on with Dorne again. Bronn dying to Bronn surviving in less than 5 minutes. Face off between Bronn and Hotah on the cards for sure.

The wall, good stuff again. Stannis and Melisandre suddenly clashing. Interesting times ahead there. John being stabbed by someone in the nights watch is being telegraphed at this stage.

Washington Irving

Liam O wrote: »

There's not one storyline that holds true to the books. The sparrows isn't a million miles away I guess. The only character I think is reasonably well handled is Ramsey but that's because he's so well acted and just given a platform to be a cùnt.

I cringed when Melisandre was talking about blood magic and started the list of dead kings but left out Balon. Really bad writing to even reference that scene when he's still bloody alive!

The episode this week was a vast improvement over last week's effort though. It all fit together a good bit better and there was less of a disjointed feeling. The wall scenes have been very good this season imo.

The Wall, Stannis/Davos and Ramsay are the only things giving me any motivation to watch week to week.

The show only storylines are extremely weak in comparison to those taken directly (or as close as) from the books, just so cliche and predictable. The scene with Bronn and the Sand Snakes was almost as bad their appearance in the last episode.

Ridley

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Good episode plotwise. I'm just anticipating the scene with the White Walkers next week though but ...

That entire Dornish scene between Jamie, Myrcella, Bronn and the Sand Snakes was utterly pointless and awful.

"I want to stay in Dorne Jamie !" *Blank look from Jamie* *Myrcella Storms out*.
"Am I the most beautiful woman in Westeros ?" .... "Yeah".

Such riveting plot and character development.:rolleyes:

I think the point of the Jaime/Myrcella interaction was that he doesn't know his daighter and hasn't been there for her.

From Reddit regarding that last scene:

I like that he and the High Sparrow must have gone over when Lancel would make his dramatic entrance. "When I say the thing about how much you had to say, then you come in. Not before! I've got a whole thing about how old and awesome this place is."

threein99

Jofspring wrote: »

I keep saying it. I don't mind deviating from the books to help move along the storyline but since the show has basically taken its own path I think they are making an absolute balls of it.

It's gone from a good interesting show with lots of great story arcs to a predictable one that is going in circles (Sansa storyline). It's like the show runners seem to have decided to try spoon feed the audience like we are a bunch of morons. It's going to way of The Walking Dead with setting things up a mile away and giving blatantly obvious hints of what's to come.

On the episode itself. Glad to see Cersei finally moving towards getting what's coming to her. Not sure why they had the Olenna and Littlefinger conversation where it seemed LF was saying he was going to get lancel to hang cersei out to dry when going by the HIgh Sparrow he had already confessed everything a long time.

Sansa going in what seems like a circle is very disappointing. Having her locked up in the room as Ramsays slave basically doesn't sit right when you consider Roose sees her as a key to the North. Treating her like **** isn't the way to do that and hard to see Roose would have let Ramsay away with it. The new stronger Sansa seems to be either gone already or she was playing it up to Theon and hoping to play on his emotions. Hard to know what way to take it as she went from cowering in her room to challenging Ramsay in the space of 1 day.

Fighting pits were disappointing if that's all we will see of them. Thought it would be a big fight similar to that of Roman fights in the colosseum.

Books wise there is no way Darrio could be Euron but nothing to say the show won't turn it into him being Euron. That or make him Quentyn.

Barr the boobs there was nothing really going on with Dorne again. Bronn dying to Bronn surviving in less than 5 minutes. Face off between Bronn and Hotah on the cards for sure.

The wall, good stuff again. Stannis and Melisandre suddenly clashing. Interesting times ahead there. John being stabbed by someone in the nights watch is being telegraphed at this stage.

Easy to say that about Jon when you know what happens

zl1whqvjs75cdy

When sansa was talking to theon she made specific reference to him being the last surviving son of balon greyjoy. Think the whole ironborn thing is therefore cut.

Edit; my mistake, for some reason I thought euron was theons brother. Obviously he is not.

Jofspring

threein99 wrote: »

Easy to say that about Jon when you know what happens

They keep making references to him upsetting the nights watch, his decisions having consequences and then continuously showing the young kid and other members of the nights watch looking at Jon in a dodgy way. I suspect a lot of people are going to think some kind of a clash/backlash is on the way there.

Graham_B18C

What is people's take on Reek in that one? Did he plan on going up and lighting the candle for Sansa and Ramsey happened to be there? Or did he just go running to him?

I'd like to think he was going to try save her but surely he'd know where Ramsey eats his dinner!

razorblunt

Graham_B18C wrote: »

What is people's take on Reek in that one? Did he plan on going up and lighting the candle for Sansa and Ramsey happened to be there? Or did he just go running to him?

I'd like to think he was going to try save her but surely he'd know where Ramsey eats his dinner!

I was thinking about this, I'm sure he knew where he was going as his reaction to seeing Ramsey wasn't one of shock.

I have to agree with the obvious signposting now the producers are deviating from the books, all we're short is "Previously on a Game of Thrones".

Overall I enjoyed the episode, I think it will harden Sansa further, I loved Ramsey's lines "Perhaps you should keep the candle, the nights are getting ... long".

Finally one of the Sand Snakes being somewhat seductive.
Poor old Bronn looks nailed on to be Oakheart though.

Sleepy

Anyone remember Sansa arming herself when she lived in Kings Landing? Or trying to manipulate others into doing her bidding? No, neither do I.

Her character is evolving and will be fighting back properly before season's end I think. I think the fact they have her hitting setbacks and suffering as she attempts to become a player a good thing tbh. It's realistic, one doesn't go from a whimpering little girl to a scheming political maneouverer in the blink of an eye. Littlefinger himself got sliced from neck to groin by Sansa's own uncle in his youth.

Loved that Sam got his moment of bravery before Ghost saved the day for him. Could've done with an explanation as to why Jon would venture north of the wall without Ghost though!

razorblunt

Sleepy wrote: »

Anyone remember Sansa arming herself when she lived in Kings Landing? Or trying to manipulate others into doing her bidding? No, neither do I.

Her character is evolving and will be fighting back properly before season's end I think. I think the fact they have her hitting setbacks and suffering as she attempts to become a player a good thing tbh. It's realistic, one doesn't go from a whimpering little girl to a scheming political maneouverer in the blink of an eye. Littlefinger himself got sliced from neck to groin by Sansa's own uncle in his youth.

Loved that Sam got his moment of bravery before Ghost saved the day for him. Could've done with an explanation as to why Jon would venture north of the wall without Ghost though!

Was Ghost not M-I-A in the books for a while though?

Duckworth_Luas

Graham_B18C wrote: »

What is people's take on Reek in that one? Did he plan on going up and lighting the candle for Sansa and Ramsey happened to be there? Or did he just go running to him?

I'd like to think he was going to try save her but surely he'd know where Ramsey eats his dinner!

Reek went directly to Ramsey to inform him of the plot to free Sansa.

Mr Freeze

Sleepy wrote: »

Loved that Sam got his moment of bravery before Ghost saved the day for him. Could've done with an explanation as to why Jon would venture north of the wall without Ghost though!

One of the lads here at work reckons Sam seemed completely different when he got up off the ground after that beating and did he collapse then once Ghost ran the lads off.

Did Bran warg into him and get him up off the ground and also bring Ghost into the room? Not a bad theory.

I would go with bad writing really, It would have taken Jon a few seconds to explain, I'm leaving Ghost here and he is likely to attack the Wildings and it will be harder to get them to come back here if he is ripping them to shreds.

Mickeroo

Sam was just using his last bit of strength to try and stand up to them.

Daith

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Did Bran warg into him and get him up off the ground and also bring Ghost into the room? Not a bad theory.

If that happened in the books...maybe. The show is less subtle. He just got a second wind.

pinkypinky

With Aemon's final scenes (well-acted by all), he kept mentioned Aeg, I was hoping for a reference to the FAegon storyline but couldn't discern any hints.

The Dorne scenes are unfortunately a complete waste of time. Nothing at all gained from that Bronn scene. Myrcella came off as very spoiled too. You'd think she'd be a little pleased to see a family member after years of separation.

So excited that Dany and Tyrion have finally met. On course for her ADWD storyline being complete by the end of this season.

Mr Freeze

Mickeroo wrote: »

Sam was just using his last bit of strength to try and stand up to them.

Ya, I think second wind too and having Ghost just appear and not go with Jon is just lazy writing.

Plus next week or in ep 9, I think we might see Olly sharpening some knifes and stabbing Jon Snow like dummies in more subtle signposting to him stabbing Jon.

Taboola

Thought on a whole the episode was good. I like the way they are speeding some things up i.e. Ser Friendzone and Tryion meeting Dany but not so much the death of Aemon. So I guess we aren't going to get to see Old Town this season then? I actually closed my eyes when watching the Ramsey/Sansa scene because I was full sure he was going to show her the corpse of Brienne.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

As a side note I am loving Mormont being referred to as Ser Friendzone.

Mr.Prodston

Well the prediction that Mel would want to sacrifice Shireen was accurate. I presume there's no way in hell that Stannis or Davos would allow that to happen, especially after all that they've done with Stannis this year. But then again you never know do you the way things have been going this season...

Haha I was thinking about Euron while Daario and Dany were in bed but it's highly doubtful. If Daario were to be Benjen then Tyrion would know that so we can probably prepare to rule that out next week, not so sure he'd have had much to do with any Ironborn though.

How much more interesting would Jaime dealing with the siege of Riverrun and the Blackfish have been this season in comparison to the Dorne abomination so far. I just hope they don't do a Ser Barristan on Bronn but that's probably wishful thinking at this point.

The scenes with Aemon were very well done, we lost him and Bill O'Herlihy on the same day The scenes in the North are easily the most interesting of the season for me.

Cersei getting her comeuppance was sweet too.

Mormegil

Graham_B18C wrote: »

What is people's take on Reek in that one? Did he plan on going up and lighting the candle for Sansa and Ramsey happened to be there? Or did he just go running to him?

I'd like to think he was going to try save her but surely he'd know where Ramsey eats his dinner!

Theon thought about helping Sansa for a moment or two, we see him glance up at the broken tower but where he ends up is a different tower (Ramsays own quarters by the looks of it).

Sleepy wrote: »

Loved that Sam got his moment of bravery before Ghost saved the day for him. Could've done with an explanation as to why Jon would venture north of the wall without Ghost though!

Jon is travelling by ship, maybe he thought having Ghost on board wouldn't be the best idea. Leaving him at castle Black he knows Sam is there to feed him.

Mr.Prodston

Sam giving Jon Dragonglass too at the beginning.

I'm going to make a wild guess here and say we may be meeting some Others in Hardhome or somewhere north of the wall :pac:

duploelabs

Seeing as how Tyrion's storyline has been accelerated he's now the only person to have met both Dany And Jon

podgemonster

I also disagree with the who "Sansa gone back to the way she was in Kings Landing" sentiment. Sansa's alertness in every scene is visibly different to previous seasons where most of the time her head was bowed to avoid attention. She is looking for weakness and for allies.

In this episode she learned some valuable things. Reek is loyal to Ramsay to a fault, she will need more than words to manipulate him. Yet she knows he holds a great guilt, she can't use him against Ramsay but she can use him elsewhere.

She also goaded Ramsay to let him slip that Jon Snow is in a position of power and not too far away. She also planted the seeds of doubt in Ramsay's mind of how fragile his nobility is, legitimized by a questionable King.

She also swiped up a corkscrew, which will be a useful last resort action to get out of danger.

Taboola

podgemonster wrote: »

In this episode she learned some valuable things. Reek is loyal to Ramsay to a fault, she will need more than words to manipulate him. Yet she knows he holds a great guilt, she can't use him against Ramsay but she can use him elsewhere.

I actually thought that he was going to light the candle but didn't and confessed when he saw Ramsey.

Nody

Only thinking out loud here but could they be moving to skip the whole "stabby mc stab" scene and instead have John march up to the wall with the wildlings and Others on their back basically only to have the Crows refusing to open the gate as the betrayal. They would not kill him themselves (to not kill a brother) but would still achieve the same end (Sam trying to open the gate but being blocked by the rest) with Snow dying and going into Ghost to line up with the book.

Mickeroo

Taboola wrote: »

I actually thought that he was going to light the candle but didn't and confessed when he saw Ramsey.

No he went to a different tower, the broken tower is derelict, Ramsey wouldn't be eating dinner in there.

Liam O

Annoying how many times non-readers talk about 'exactly the kind of thing George RR Martin would do'. Just an irrational annoyance of mine when reading the other thread or in general non book discussion. There's a lot in the show he wouldn't do more than he would do tbh

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I don't know if they'll go with the Wargging into Ghost bit for Snow. I think it would be very difficult to portray that on screen for an extended part of series 6 without the audience getting well fed up of it. The option then would be grievously wound Snow who goes into Ghost until his body recovers, or just kill him off altogether.

Mickeroo

I reckon the stabbing will happen, they're laying on the foreshadowing so thick at the moment.

I don't think Jon will warg into Ghost though, probably be just resurrected by Mel. Surely they would have established him as having some warging capability by now if it was going to happen? In the show Bran is the only Stark warg as far as we know. Could be saving it as a wtf moment too though I suppose.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Ah yeah I think he's in for an old stabaroo alright, probably by that young lad who is his steward. Lots of lingering shots of him looking very shifty. Was the wargging ever confirmed in the book? I'm still not sure I buy it to be honest.

Mickeroo

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Ah yeah I think he's in for an old stabaroo alright, probably by that young lad who is his steward. Lots of lingering shots of him looking very shifty. Was the wargging ever confirmed in the book? I'm still not sure I buy it to be honest.

All the pov Stark children bar Sansa are shown to warg in the books. It's hinted that Robb was but not confirmed.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Is it my imagination, but is this season after catching up to the books in almost every respect? Its a while since I read the last 2 books, but cercei, jon snow,stannis & arya, all seem to be where they are at the end of those books, & tyrion (and dany by association) has actually gone further.

I'm in two minds as to whether or not I think they've done the right thing. - I agree with cutting a lot of the side characters, but the way they've done some of the stuff instead has been poor. That being said, Another season of Dany farting around freeing slaves isn't the slightest bit appealing to me, and I wouldn't be keen on having Sansas arc drawn out much further.

Sleepy

Mormegil wrote: »

Jon is travelling by ship, maybe he thought having Ghost on board wouldn't be the best idea. Leaving him at castle Black he knows Sam is there to feed him.

And four lines of dialogue just as he was saying his farewell to Sam would have made that obvious: "take care of Ghost"

Jofspring

On the Danareys storyline, based on a pic I saw -

I'm pretty sure I've seen a picture of Danareys lying on a rock with her clothes burnt and ripped, most likely after flying away on drogon. Likely that they will still end up leaving it there like the book if that's the case. What happens with herself and Tyrion before that will be interesting

Liam O

I reckon Loras trial by combat, which exonerates Marge and Cersei takes the mother's punishment that the high sparrow talked of. Which involves going through town in the nip.

MonkeyTennis

Best episode so far but have to admit Im confused as hell with all the changes.