Goodbye Aer Lingus

I hope Aer Lingus keeps it's identity, it'd be a shame to lose that unique sense of Irishness you get on the airline.

I remember a horrible journey of over 36 hours and three stops with long delays to get to Dublin. The last flight in the trilogy was an Aer Lingus one, and after the rudeness and indifference of ground staff and cabin crew for the entire preceding day with two other airlines, I was greeted with manners, smiles and genuine friendliness. Makes a big difference when you're tired and fed up to be treated like human beings and not cattle.

Graham

Valetta wrote: »

Willie Walsh is acting as a salesman.

Should the Oireachtas Committee believe everything he says?

Do people believe salesmen? (or women )

That's very strange considering that he's buying.

Let me think who I would rather trust, someone who's about to put their career on the line by spending a massive amount of their employers money or someone that will roll-over and bark if it gets them a few extra votes.

donvito99

Valetta wrote: »

Willie Walsh is acting as a salesman.

Should the Oireachtas Committee believe everything he says?

Do people believe salesmen? (or women )

Candie wrote: »

I hope Aer Lingus keeps it's identity, it'd be a shame to lose that unique sense of Irishness you get on the airline.

I remember a horrible journey of over 36 hours and three stops with long delays to get to Dublin. The last flight in the trilogy was an Aer Lingus one, and after the rudeness and indifference of ground staff and cabin crew for the entire preceding day with two other airlines, I was greeted with manners, smiles and genuine friendliness. Makes a big difference when you're tired and fed up to be treated like human beings and not cattle.

Say bye bye to Aer Lingus so before 2025.

lightspeed

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

He put together a VERY convincing case for selling the remaining stake. More routes, more jobs, more passengers through Irish airports inc developing Dublin as a genuine transatlantic hub - guarantee on brand and separate company within group - and a host of other aspects too.


If the government don't sell it now for this they will get a lot less in the future. Even the gombeens should be able to see this.

To be fair though, is this a better deal for Dublin and a bad deal for Shannon and surrounding counties?

He states that they will ensure the slots from Shannon to Heathrow will be protected for 5 years. From what i was hearing earlier last week, there are a number of companies who have invested within that region on basis of those transports slots to Heathrow.

What happens to jobs in the area after 5 years if those key slots are eliminated? Maybe more jobs will be protected if the government never sells its stake.

Graham

lightspeed wrote: »

To be fair though, is this a better deal for Dublin and a bad deal for Shannon and surrounding counties?

He states that they will ensure the slots from Shannon to Heathrow will be protected for 5 years. From what i was hearing earlier last week, there are a number of companies who have invested within that region on basis of those transports slots to Heathrow.

What happens to jobs in the area after 5 years if those key slots are eliminated? Maybe more jobs will be protected if the government never sells its stake.

How long are the Shannon connections guaranteed for at the moment?

Kermit.de.frog

Have our gombeens over played their hand?

Aer Lingus bid could turn hostile for IAG...freezing the government out of any negotiating position.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/iag-could-turn-hostile-on-14bn-aer-lingus-bid-31023344.html

IAG could simply buy 75% of Aer Lingus and do what they like.

Why should IAG wait for an election here?

Wompa1

Graham wrote: »

How long are the Shannon connections guaranteed for at the moment?

More importantly, with this administration looking like they'll be out of power in a few months. Can IAG give some of them a nice cushy job if they rush it through

wendell borton

Its looking like the government are going to sell our 25% stake in Aer Lingus. Given their form of kowtowing to corporate interests its little surprise.

RayM

I'm no fan of privatisation of public utilities, but I've never really understood why the state should own an airline.

darkpagandeath

Maybe it will become competitive now.

BoJack Horseman

Does the OP care to give any info?

Menas

RayM wrote: »

I'm no fan of privatisation of public utilities, but I've never really understood why the state should own an airline.

I never got this either....but the unions and vested interests are very emotive about the whole thing.

Anyway, I head on the radio this afternoon that they were due to discuss this in cabinet at 3 but took a break for Tea!

somesoldiers

this has been on going for months- have they finally decided to sell?

CarrickMcJoe

RayM wrote: »

I'm no fan of privatisation of public utilities, but I've never really understood why the state should own an airline.

They need somewhere to park their private jets! (or jet I think now).

Valetta

It's only 25%. Won't make a blind bit of difference, 'cept for they will have more dosh to give away in the budget, just before the election.

BoJack Horseman

somesoldiers wrote: »

this has been on going for months- have they finally decided to sell?

OP will be getting back to us with the sale price imminently.

somesoldiers

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

OP will be getting back to us with the sale price imminently.

hopefully, nothing like a bit of insider info

wendell borton

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Does the OP care to give any info?

I think we should keep a say on the running of the national carrier, we currently have quite privileged slots in the biggest hub of international travel.
Also with a bit of imagination aer lingus could be a bigger player by linking up with regional airlines in Europe and the US, the current partnership with stobart being an example of this.

Graham

wendell borton wrote: »

Its looking like the government are going to sell our 25% stake in Aer Lingus. Given their form of kowtowing to corporate interests its little surprise.

FYP

Given their form of kowtowing to corporate Union interests its little a surprise.

chrysagon

I wonder in ten yrs time, will they REGRET THE SALE?

BoJack Horseman

wendell borton wrote: »

I think we should keep a say on the running of the national carrier

What price did the government get?

As you started the thread, I assume you know this?

For Forks Sake

chrysagon wrote: »

I wonder in ten yrs time, will they REGRET THE SALE?

AL was sold off in 2006. I think the govt. should get shot of the last 25%. AL are going to have to spend a lot of money in the next 5-10 years on new planes, is it a good use of taxpayers money buying quarter shares in planes?

ScumLord

RayM wrote: »

I'm no fan of privatisation of public utilities, but I've never really understood why the state should own an airline.

Well you have to look at them in the context of when they were set up. I think Aer lingus for the most part is/was a good ambassador company for Ireland. If it could turn a profit it would be a good investment for the state. I guess now it will become another of the bland discount airlines, which it will probably fail miserably at and go bust.

Graham

ScumLord wrote: »

I guess now it will become another of the bland discount airlines, which it will probably fail miserably at and go bust.

You think IAG are planning to turn EI into a discount airline?

catbear

I was flying back from south america recently and all the airlines were charging roughly 600-700 to get to Madrid but the onward leg to Dublin with their partner Aerlingus was costing an extra 400!!!!

Instead I booked a Ryanair flight from the same airport in Madrid for €25.

BoJack Horseman

Graham wrote: »

You think IAG are planning to turn EI into a discount airline?

EI already are a discount airline.

Unless you compete in price you die.

It isn't a coincidence that EI returned to profitability with the advent of cost control & revenue generated from 'extras'.

Graham

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

EI already are a discount airline.

Unless you compete in price you die.

It isn't a coincidence that EI returned to profitability with the advent of cost control & revenue generated from 'extras'.

I get that, I was trying to understand scumlords train of thought.

rubberdiddies

I presume the long term goal of IAG is to gain full control of the lucrative heathrow slots, after whatever agree period they can do what they want with them.

I can't imagine lil old Ireland will be a major market for them.

My only concern is less competition in the long term.

Graham

rubberdiddies wrote: »

I presume the long term goal of IAG is to gain full control of the lucrative heathrow slots, after whatever agree period they can do what they want with them.

I presume it's almost the opposite reason. I foresee Dublin airport becoming Heathrow Terminal 5 (v.) West. Funnelling UK Regional and European traffic onto destinations in North America. In essence, re-capturing traffic that has been lost to the likes of KLM.

ScumLord

Graham wrote: »

I get that, I was trying to understand scumlords train of thought.

The problem is there's so much competition at the budget end. I'd usually fly with Aer Lingus, I don't mind paying the small premium and prefer the service to Ryanair. If they go head to head with Ryanair I think they'd lose, Ryanair has a big advantage and experience to beat them.

Graham

ScumLord wrote: »

The problem is there's so much competition at the budget end. I'd usually fly with Aer Lingus, I don't mind paying the small premium and prefer the service to Ryanair. If they go head to head with Ryanair I think they'd lose, Ryanair has a big advantage and experience to beat them.

I can't see IAG wanting to take on the ultra-lcc model of Ryanair. They haven't before, why do you think that will change now?

Eugene Norman

ScumLord wrote: »

Well you have to look at them in the context of when they were set up. I think Aer lingus for the most part is/was a good ambassador company for Ireland. If it could turn a profit it would be a good investment for the state. I guess now it will become another of the bland discount airlines, which it will probably fail miserably at and go bust.

Don't expect the sub-libertarians on boards to understand history. The market always works so there was no need for Aer Lingus. Rabble rabble.

That said there is no need now for the state to involve itself in airlines.

Graham

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Don't expect the sub-libertarians on boards to understand history.

Often the best place for history is in the past.

BenEadir

[QUOTE=rubberdiddies;95640907My only concern is less competition in the long term.[/QUOTE]

This is easily dealt with by the Govt making it attractive for airlines to fly in and out of Ireland's publicly owned airports and by making it easy for someone (M O'Leary perhaps) to develop a private airport which would a) increase capacity into and out of Ireland and keep the publicly owned airports cost competitive.

New York has three international airports in close proximity. It is a much much bigger market than Dublin but I bet if the Govt relaxed the bureaucracy someone would invest in a modern functional airport to compete with DAB similar to how Glasgow and Glasgow Prestwick operate and they are only 40 miles apart.

How about Dublin Naas airport?

chrysagon

Iberia suffered major job losses though when they were taken over..

Timberrrrrrrr

Grabs popcorn

Awaits EOTR's well thought out and intelligent contributions.

54and56

chrysagon wrote: »

Iberia suffered major job losses though when they were taken over..

When governments meddle in commerce the result is usually inefficient loss making organisations. Privatisiation saved X amount of Iberia jobs otherwise the tax payer would just keep subsidising losses to keep "jobs" which weren't needed.

Graham

chrysagon wrote: »

Iberia suffered major job losses though when they were taken over..

Iberia had a lot of flab they needed to loose, EI have already lost most of theirs.

ThisRegard

wendell borton wrote: »

Its looking like the government are going to sell our 25% stake in Aer Lingus. Given their form of kowtowing to corporate interests its little surprise.

Are Lingus has long since been privatised.

silverfeather

RayM wrote: »

I'm no fan of privatisation of public utilities, but I've never really understood why the state should own an airline.

It was because orgininally having airports in Ireland was not so commercially viable apparantly but they were needed to boost the economy. That was why there was so much issue with shannon etc.

I think so anyway.

Geniass

Graham wrote: »

Iberia had a lot of flab they needed to loose, EI have already lost most of theirs.

They will lose some admin/finance jobs, but potentially gain more in an expanded airline.

Junkyard Tom

RayM wrote: »

I've never really understood why the state should own an airline.

Whisky Mac wrote: »

I never got this either

Eugene Norman wrote: »

That said there is no need now for the state to involve itself in airlines.

For purely strategic reasons, as an island nation, would it not be prudent of the government to retain some copper-fastened stake or clause that EI can come under the Irish government's control in the event of catastrophe, war or some-such?

HIB

Terrible news for so many Cork businesses.
How long before the Heathrow slots vanish I wonder?

Timberrrrrrrr

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

For purely strategic reasons, as an island nation, would it not be prudent of the government to retain some copper-fastened stake or clause that EI can come under the Irish government's control in the event of catastrophe, war or some-such?

What???

Little CuChulainn

RayM wrote: »

I'm no fan of privatisation of public utilities, but I've never really understood why the state should own an airline.

Presumably it's because of the importance of maintaining a good link with as many countries as possible for tourism without the over-riding goal of profit.

mahoganygas

somesoldiers wrote: »

hopefully, nothing like a bit of insider info

Stock has been trading close to the 1.55 mark all day. The market knows this is inevitable.

Junkyard Tom

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What???

You know, if a major war broke out in Europe, or if there was some sort of catastrophe like a massive Tsunami or some other calamity.. a fleet of aircraft under control of the government could be essential for rescuing/evacuating people, bringing in supplies/aid etc.

ThisRegard

The airline currently is not in control of the state anyway.

Graham

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

You know, if a major war broke out in Europe, or if there was some sort of catastrophe like a massive Tsunami or some other calamity.. a fleet of aircraft under control of the government could be essential for rescuing/evacuating people, bringing in supplies/aid etc.

You do realise the airline has already been privatised, it's no longer under state control.

Graham

HIB wrote: »

Terrible news for so many Cork businesses.
How long before the Heathrow slots vanish I wonder?

Shocking, the residents of Cork may now have to use the air services provided such that they're maintained on a commercial rather than political basis.