Nighttime Flight Paths over Dublin

FWVT

Calina wrote: »

Actually it's possible to sleep through noise you're expecting to hear. Noise you're not expecting, on the other hand...particularly at 4.50am, that's a different kettle of fish.

I don't see why it is so hard now for the airport to include the maintenance in its news pages. It has generally done it before.

So by that rationale you should have no more problems with the noise now as you know to expect it, as per the notam I posted earlier.

Calina

FWVT wrote: »

So by that rationale you should have no more problems with the noise now as you know to expect it, as per the notam I posted earlier.

My problem is not with the flights going overhead. It is that Dublin Airport did not flag them on their site which they have had the habit of doing.

I don't need your NOTAM to tell me there are planes going overhead for the simple reason that I can hear them thanks. What I'd like is for Dublin Airport to keep that maintenance information on their website.

I'm wondering why you think that is such a big deal.

eatmyshorts

Calina wrote: »

I'm wondering why you think that is such a big deal.

You elected to live under the flightpath of one of the major European airports and you wonder why there's noise?

Calina

eatmyshorts wrote: »

You elected to live under the flightpath of one of the major European airports and you wonder why there's noise?

I don't want to get into an argument but let's just say the flightpath in question is one which is rarely used and so there is rarely noise. I'm not saying it never happens. Most of the noise which I get are a) sirens courtesy of ambulance going to Beaumont and, more often than the passenger aircraft, the Coast Guard chopper. The chopper almost never passes over during the night.


IMG_4035 by me, on Flickr taken a day that crosswinds caused 34 to be in use.

But we do get the aircraft on occasion. Some of those occasions include maintenance and cover a late night period at which time a) taking photographs is not usually productive and b) sleeping might be.

My issue isn't the aircraft noise per se, it's the the fact that unusually, Dublin Airport didn't flag it.

Photograph was taken from my front garden. I know there are people on this board who'd kill to have this happen daily. But it doesn't and so it's not accurate to suggest that noise is a regular event from the airport. Most of the time, you'd hardly know there was an airport up the road.

FWVT

Calina wrote: »

My problem is not with the flights going overhead. It is that Dublin Airport did not flag them on their site which they have had the habit of doing.

I don't need your NOTAM to tell me there are planes going overhead for the simple reason that I can hear them thanks. What I'd like is for Dublin Airport to keep that maintenance information on their website.

I'm wondering why you think that is such a big deal.

So the planes are NOT the problem that is keeping you awake, it's instead the fact that runway upgrades were not made public?

Cessna_Pilot

All I can add to do this thread is that I wish my life was so simple and problem free to be able to care so much about irrelevant things like an aircraft overflying the house once in a while

sdanseo

Calina wrote: »

There is an issue. I live in Dublin 9 and while I fully recognise that there are times 34 will be in use, I'd like it to be flagged on the airport's website so that I can be clear on how often or how long I have to listen to this. I don't mind it during the day but there are parts of Dublin 9 which are much closer to the airport than most of the residential areas in Portmarnock/Howth for example. The aircraft are much lower overhead.

This is actually quite disturbing late at night and it's particularly irritating before 5am. And it is definitely louder in Dublin 9 than in Howth or Portmarnock in my experience. I've lived in Portmarnock as well. I've also lived in Forrest Road in Swords and of all of them, it's probably been loudest there when 16 is used for landing.

It would be nice to get a warning for it for the simple reason that 16/34 is rarely used and so it is out of the ordinary for residents under the flightpath to it.



On balance, I find landing noise to be significantly louder than take off noise when 34 is used for landing and 16 for take off.



It's nice to know. Most people would like advance notice of matters which may discommode them, for example roadworks in the vicinity of where they live.

My past experience is that Dublin Airport has generally flagged periods of maintenance. The fact that they did not, on this occasion, is disappointing as it was fairly obvious that wind was not a factor.

I take photographs of low flying aircraft if it happens during the day and I happen to be at home. I don't really object to it. But I would like a warning in advance for overflights during the night, particularly as Dublin Airport has been in the habit of doing it.

I've lived in the area for 5 years now and I'd have to say that while it has never been completely unknown for 34 to be in use, already this year it feels like it has seen significantly more use than was the case in past years. If we're going to have it 4 or 5 nights a week for the summer, then I think that advance notice via the airport's website is not too much to ask for.

I think it's nice that DAA tweet or otherwise announce the "discommoding" of residents but it's just that - a courtesy - and I don't think not doing it should be held against them. They have no say in which runway is used, that's dictated by weather and safety, combined with a requirement to keep the airfield maintained.

If they warn you of roadworks, you can drive a different way. If the water's going to be off you can bottle some or fill the bath.

If aircraft are landing over your house you can't put it on wheels and drive to Leitrim for the night.

lucernarian

Jeez, someone has made the point that some mention of planned usage of the 16/34 runway would be helpful and is it much to ask etc... For whatever reasons, be it knowing to wear ear plugs in advance or taking sleeping tablets or some other arbitrary thing they could do to prepare and minimise any impact on sleep. This is not a serious imposition on the DAA if it is indeed known for more than a few days in advance.

What it gets is some smart alek responses about NoTAMs and moving the house to Leitrim... I'm not sure I would demand, or support demands that the DAA put up every possible moment of airport operations that might impact upon "neighbours" but the point certainly doesn't require condescending responses...

fr336

KLAXON

TWO SHAMROCK A330s ON THEIR WAY..YOU SHOULD SEE THE SPEED OF THEM. ETA 20 MINS TIME. (There's a 767 coming too but hopefully that should be 28)

THANK YOU

sjb25

Try working shift work lads I'd like to know what time the bin man is coming today also the postman as he will make the dog bark id like my neighbour to inform me if he needs to cut his grass or do anyting that mite wake me because I'm just of a 12hr night shift (back tonight for another 12)and i need to know so I can sleep during the day actually any motorist passing the house needs to text me now

Actually all them transatlantic aircraft that pass right over me roaring so Shannon control should send me a text aswell so il know my sleep may be interrupted

Rigardo

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

All I can add to do this thread is that I wish my life was so simple and problem free to be able to care so much about irrelevant things like an aircraft overflying the house once in a while

Meh, I'd be more worried if irrelevant things like people asking innocent questions on an internet forum got me as wound up as some of the people on here

FWVT

lucernarian wrote: »

Jeez, someone has made the point that some mention of planned usage of the 16/34 runway would be helpful and is it much to ask etc... For whatever reasons, be it knowing to wear ear plugs in advance or taking sleeping tablets or some other arbitrary thing they could do to prepare and minimise any impact on sleep. This is not a serious imposition on the DAA if it is indeed known for more than a few days in advance.

What it gets is some smart alek responses about NoTAMs and moving the house to Leitrim... I'm not sure I would demand, or support demands that the DAA put up every possible moment of airport operations that might impact upon "neighbours" but the point certainly doesn't require condescending responses...

The original complaints were about noise keeping people awake (and only a couple of times a night). They now seem to have shifted to actually being about not being told that a certain runway will be in use. Which is it? The notam has highlighted that until at least May 31st runway 16/34 will be in use (in either direction, depending on wind). These people know that now but are still complaining that it's not on the website, as if that will make one bit of difference to their sleep.

We have become a country of whingers. We feel the need to complain about something, it's just that we're not quite sure what about and why. The other thread on this forum yesterday confirms that.

homerjay2005

got to love these threads, majority of these flights are landing before 12.00 and are at about 4k feet in loughlinstown. i live 4 or 5 miles closer to the runway and have no issues, the plane fly right over our house also.

if you cant sleep, i suggest the problem is the windows in you house need a bit more double glazing or you are going to bed too early;););)

lord lucan

sjb25 wrote: »

Try working shift work lads I'd like to know what time the bin man is coming today also the postman as he will make the dog bark id like my neighbour to inform me if he needs to cut his grass or do anyting that mite wake me because I'm just of a 12hr night shift (back tonight for another 12)and i need to know so I can sleep during the day actually any motorist passing the house needs to text me now

Actually all them transatlantic aircraft that pass right over me roaring so Shannon control should send me a text aswell so il know my sleep may be interrupted

I hear you, pity my neighbours don't warn me they're having bbqs in the summer on a Saturday night and I'm in work for 04.00 the next morning.

lucernarian

FWVT wrote:

These people know that now but are still complaining that it's not on the website, as if that will make one bit of difference to their sleep

Ah here now, I'm only addressing the recent posts which moved on to not knowing about planned alterations. I've explained how it would make a difference, have a read of it again. If you think that counts as "whinging" then its a very haughty and dismissive attitude.

This thread has several examples of condescending posts which just bad cricket. It is not up to you to decide whether an issue should concern somebody or not, or just the "professionals". The DAA already have paid PR people for that. The issue is such a small matter and the reaction it gets from some here is far too defensive. Also, why would anybody start mentioning double-glazing, Hounslow and neighbours' dogs all in response to someone looking for a heads up about a different runway in use? I've already offered good reasons why forewarning of less usual runway approaches being used could mitigate any possible sleep disruption. I think the DAA missing an update on twitter isn't a big deal BTW.

homerjay2005

Calina wrote: »

I
My issue isn't the aircraft noise per se, it's the the fact that unusually, Dublin Airport didn't flag it.

what good would that do, you stay up later or close your windows? sounds like the typical irishness of just having a good old moan for the sake of it.

Preset No.3

If only we could get Frankie Boyle in here to explain the situation to those complaining......

Supercell

Thanks for the information, I thought it was the summer chartered flights or something as this seems to happen every year during the summertime since I bought here about four years ago. Is that a correct assumption to make - that the maintenance and extra summer flights are likely to be a feature for the future at this time of year?

Regarding the noise, I grew up in Dalkey right below Torca hill but don't remember the aircraft noise as loud as it is here in Loughlinstown, I wonder if its the local topography somehow amplifying the noise here?
It doesn't really bother me at this stage, but would rather they flew over the bay in a NIMBY kind of way!

cml387

Is continuous descent approach in use in Dublin?

cml387

cml387 wrote: »

Is continuous descent approach in use in Dublin?

Yes as designed by the IAA on 10 and 28 but pilots can and do fly CDAs to any runway

smurfjed

Yes

Are you sure? Last time i looked at the STAR from the Bray area it was a constant altitude the whole way around the bay.

smurfjed

smurfjed wrote: »

Are you sure? Last time i looked at the STAR from the Bray area it was a constant altitude the whole way around the bay.

Like I said the IAA designed CDAs on 10/28 pilots however can fly CDAs themselves, just like they do at Heathrow and Gatwick, for 16 and 34.

NATs haven't designed any CDAs they just have instructed pilots to descend continously when instructed and advised pilots on what they consider continous descent to be.

smurfjed

Have a look at Jeppesen 10-2G STAR RWY 28 P-RNAV, there is a note associated with points SORIN, SIVNA, SUGAD, DW704, DW705 and DW706, the note states "AT FL70 MAX 230 KTS". The total distance is about 34 nms, so thats not a CDA.

10-2E, 2F, 2, 2A are all similar.

smurfjed

smurfjed wrote: »

Have a look at Jeppesen 10-2G STAR RWY 28 P-RNAV, there is a note associated with points SORIN, SIVNA, SUGAD, DW704, DW705 and DW706, the note states "AT FL70 MAX 230 KTS". The total distance is about 34 nms, so thats not a CDA.

10-2E, 2F, 2, 2A are all similar.

It is continuous descent to SORIN/SIVNA and KERAV (where able)and then when the aircraft is turned off the sequence leg (SORIN, SIVNA, SUGAD, DW704, DW705 and DW706), the bracketed routing is only used for sequencing or as a linear hold when traffic requires it.

CDA is not practicable from cruise level due to numerous other reasons mainly other traffic.

https://www.iaa.ie/TMA2012_video

https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/default/files/content/documents/sesar/point-merge-system-in-dublin.pdf

Video should explain it hopefully.

sdanseo

Notwithstanding any of the above, pilots and ATC will always work to provide a continuous and relatively uninterrupted descent when it's practical (which is very much the case in the early hours with very few movements).

smurfjed

Excellent video thanks, now I would be interested in knowing if foreign airlines actually instruct their crews to watch it. There is nothing in the Jeppesen reference section to prepare me for these procedures. My FMS/VNAV would commence the descent planned on reaching FL70 at the first height restriction point in the STAR. Any distance greater than 21nm from that initial point would result in adding power and noise.

Are these new procedures bringing aircraft across the base of the Dublin mountains at a lower height than was used for the old procedure?

FWVT

So as runways 28 (63%) and 10 (30%) make up 93% of the runway usage (as shown in the pdf above), it means 16/34 is only used 7% of the time. Of that 7% I would imagine the vast majority is 16, meaning arrivals across the city onto 34 occur on only a handful of days a year (current R28 upgrade works notwithstanding).

eatmyshorts

CDA's start from 6000 feet.

eatmyshorts

eatmyshorts wrote: »

CDA's start from 6000 feet.

CDAs start from as high as possible preferably from cruise. Ultimately you do it from what you can get. The U.K it is 6000ft because the holds have lowest levels at FL70 around Heathrow.

Chris_5339762

FWVT wrote: »

So as runways 28 (63%) and 10 (30%) make up 93% of the runway usage (as shown in the pdf above), it means 16/34 is only used 7% of the time. Of that 7% I would imagine the vast majority is 16, meaning arrivals across the city onto 34 occur on only a handful of days a year (current R28 upgrade works notwithstanding).

Very anecdotally I've been watching FR24 for about a year and a half and I've only seen 34 used three or four times, for a few hours at a time only. Shame for passengers, as its the most interesting approach by far.